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Add a difficulty to pre-existing dungeons beyond "Veteran" or "hard mode" to spice up older content?
RaveRaveRaveRave
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Why not add a difficulty beyond Veteran or perhaps harder hardmodes on older content? Give out better drops, make it more of a challenge, spice up those older Dungeons somehow? They're already there and a lot of people are 810 and experienced. Keep everything that's there now, just add something beyond "Normal", "Veteran", "Hardmodes".
Imagine doing Fungal Grotto 1 on SUPERVET mode or something? It would be somewhat of a challenge after nearly 5 years of smoking it. Maybe drop a gold item at the end if successful? I dunno. Just thinking of a way to spice up older dungeons and content using harder difficulty and a better reward or something?
Imagine doing Fungal Grotto 1 on SUPERVET mode or something? It would be somewhat of a challenge after nearly 5 years of smoking it. Maybe drop a gold item at the end if successful? I dunno. Just thinking of a way to spice up older dungeons and content using harder difficulty and a better reward or something?
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profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭sure. I'm all in favor for introducing that but only after they finishing implement the following first:
A rework of the random group finder where vet DLC dungeons get their own separate queue so that people can choose to queue for either "Normal (classic + DLC)", "Veteran (classic)" or "Veteran DLC" in the random group finder dungeon. Maybe even add queues for normal trials as an optional feature.
Introduce vMA-style solo trials per core role (healing/tanking/dd) that test abilities in the field under stress and qualify you for that specific role to be able to queue for the "veteran (classic)" and "veteran DLC" queues in group finder. Without the matching qualification those vet queues are locked by default, waiting for you to unlock them. The "Normal" queue would remain free to all without need for qualification. Successfully passing round 3 qualifies you for "veteran (classic)" while passing round 5 qualifies you for "vet dlc".
Each round becomes more difficult to match and represents the hardest portions of the category you whish to qualify for to ensure that you are ready for this level of play.2 -
pauli133✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alright, a more serious answer than before:
I would like to see dungeons rebalanced to white, green, blue, and purple tiers (corresponding to gear drops). Not every dungeon needs to have every level, and there need to be some sort of height checks. Difficulty should be comparable throughout each tier, regardless of whether it's vanilla or DLC.
This should help function as additional character progression and indicate whether or not a player is on the right track better than the current "normal" and "vet", both of which could mean just about anything.2 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Banished Cells giving skins for SUPERVET Speed, No Death, HM...wouldn't that be fun!0 -
xb1LL_mr_sir_LL✭✭✭Yea been talking about this for awhile now. We'll probably get some features like these when ZO$ is done funding updates.
I've always said where's the dlc that fixes the other dlc? I'd pay $100 for that. The average player would never go for that.
the devs gotta add new maps and quest for the casual audience.0 -
Chuaznega✭✭✭Agree. The old veteran content is now 'too easy'. The new DLC dungeons are too hard.
We need a little more difficulty on old-content and a little less difficulty on new content.
@ZOS_GinaBruno0 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
The older dungeons are based more on the fundamentals of RPG game play. So increasing their difficulty should have the desired effect and just make them more fun.
The reason so many players haven't bothered to clear DLC dungeons is because they are usually based on annoying trial by error "mechanics" which turns off a lot of players.1 -
AndyMac✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »sure. I'm all in favor for introducing that but only after they finishing implement the following first:
Introduce vMA-style solo trials per core role (healing/tanking/dd) that test abilities in the field under stress and qualify you for that specific role to be able to queue for the "veteran (classic)" and "veteran DLC" queues in group finder. Without the matching qualification those vet queues are locked by default, waiting for you to unlock them. The "Normal" queue would remain free to all without need for qualification. Successfully passing round 3 qualifies you for "veteran (classic)" while passing round 5 qualifies you for "vet dlc".
Each round becomes more difficult to match and represents the hardest portions of the category you whish to qualify for to ensure that you are ready for this level of play.
This gets an awesome
Andymac - Magicka DK - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »sure. I'm all in favor for introducing that but only after they finishing implement the following first:
A rework of the random group finder where vet DLC dungeons get their own separate queue so that people can choose to queue for either "Normal (classic + DLC)", "Veteran (classic)" or "Veteran DLC" in the random group finder dungeon. Maybe even add queues for normal trials as an optional feature.
Introduce vMA-style solo trials per core role (healing/tanking/dd) that test abilities in the field under stress and qualify you for that specific role to be able to queue for the "veteran (classic)" and "veteran DLC" queues in group finder. Without the matching qualification those vet queues are locked by default, waiting for you to unlock them. The "Normal" queue would remain free to all without need for qualification. Successfully passing round 3 qualifies you for "veteran (classic)" while passing round 5 qualifies you for "vet dlc".
Each round becomes more difficult to match and represents the hardest portions of the category you whish to qualify for to ensure that you are ready for this level of play.
Not a bad idea. But I'm not really sure how that would help much on this game, since most of the challenge later on really doesn't have much to do with how well you heal, tank, or DD. It has a lot more to do with knowing what to do and learning the details of a fight.0 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should just give bosses and mobs extra damage to make the mechanics more dangerous, that should fix it1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »They should just give bosses and mobs extra damage to make the mechanics more dangerous, that should fix it
Pretty much.
All they would have to do is scale it upward some.0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah, you do realise there's quite a few pugs out there who struggle with normal non-DLC dungeons, don'tcha?4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Undaunted academy is an old idea of mine. Would also be nice to experiment with various tank or healer setups.profundidob16_ESO wrote: »sure. I'm all in favor for introducing that but only after they finishing implement the following first:
A rework of the random group finder where vet DLC dungeons get their own separate queue so that people can choose to queue for either "Normal (classic + DLC)", "Veteran (classic)" or "Veteran DLC" in the random group finder dungeon. Maybe even add queues for normal trials as an optional feature.
Introduce vMA-style solo trials per core role (healing/tanking/dd) that test abilities in the field under stress and qualify you for that specific role to be able to queue for the "veteran (classic)" and "veteran DLC" queues in group finder. Without the matching qualification those vet queues are locked by default, waiting for you to unlock them. The "Normal" queue would remain free to all without need for qualification. Successfully passing round 3 qualifies you for "veteran (classic)" while passing round 5 qualifies you for "vet dlc".
Each round becomes more difficult to match and represents the hardest portions of the category you whish to qualify for to ensure that you are ready for this level of play.
it would obviously require npc to help at least for the healer as job is to heal and buff them.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
You can’t rely on PS4 trophy stats as they include everybody who’s ever logged into the game, including all the people who only played during the free play weeks and the people who played maybe for a few weeks and hated the game then traded it in. Those stats are not reliable enough to use in the argument.Edited by MattT1988 on February 27, 2019 11:29AM1 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
The older dungeons are based more on the fundamentals of RPG game play. So increasing their difficulty should have the desired effect and just make them more fun.
The reason so many players haven't bothered to clear DLC dungeons is because they are usually based on annoying trial by error "mechanics" which turns off a lot of players.
Increasing their difficulty woud have < 0,1% attendance just like DLC ones and would be absolutely complete wast of dev time.
What they SHOULD do is solo mode for dungeons. Its a win-win for playerbase ans ZOS bottom line.Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
You can’t rely on PS4 trophy stats as they include everybody who’s ever logged into the game, including all the people who only played during the free play weeks and the people who played maybe for a few weeks and hated the game then traded it in. Those stats are not reliable enough to use in the argument.
You can cry about them all you want, numbers dont lie....just people who dont like the numbers.Edited by MikaHR on February 27, 2019 11:33AM0 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
The older dungeons are based more on the fundamentals of RPG game play. So increasing their difficulty should have the desired effect and just make them more fun.
The reason so many players haven't bothered to clear DLC dungeons is because they are usually based on annoying trial by error "mechanics" which turns off a lot of players.
Increasing their difficulty woud have < 0,1% attendance just like DLC ones and would be absolutely complete wast of dev time.
What they SHOULD do is solo mode for dungeons. Its a win-win for playerbase ans ZOS bottom line.Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
You can’t rely on PS4 trophy stats as they include everybody who’s ever logged into the game, including all the people who only played during the free play weeks and the people who played maybe for a few weeks and hated the game then traded it in. Those stats are not reliable enough to use in the argument.
You can cry about them all you want, numbers dont lie....just people who dont like the numbers.
LOL what kind of argument is that? I give you a solid reason why those particular statistics can’t be trusted and you just come back with ‘cry about them all you want’. My god, that’s pretty *** poor. What a child.Edited by MattT1988 on February 27, 2019 11:41AM1 -
albesca✭✭✭✭✭Not a bad idea. But I'm not really sure how that would help much on this game, since most of the challenge later on really doesn't have much to do with how well you heal, tank, or DD. It has a lot more to do with knowing what to do and learning the details of a fight.
That's what I was thinking too: two days ago I got Ruins of Mazzatun for my random normal dungeon, we managed just fine with Mighty Chudan, but wiped repeatedly on Xal-Nur until one of the DD looked for a guide and instructed the rest of us on what to do (we got it in two attempts, then), then we killed the Tree-minder without breaking a sweat.
It wasn't a matter of enough DPS nor my sub par healing (I'm still learning the role and was tempted to leave the group when I saw which dungeon we got, honestly), the tank too looked a bit inexperienced, but did his best; what stumped us was not knowing the mechanics to deal with the adds and the temporary invulnerability of the bossPC EU
Khajiit has no time for you0 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭
LOL what kind of argument is that? I give you a solid reason why those particular statistics can’t be trusted and you just come back with ‘cry about them all you want’. My god, that’s pretty *** poor. What a child.
No matter how much you cry, it wont change the numbers.Edited by MikaHR on February 27, 2019 12:02PM0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
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Same numbers were discussed in this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5822577/#Comment_5822577
The numbers are 100% correct for the context in which you presented them, I agree. But the problem is a) source, b) sample size, c) intelligent analysis. The primary stumbling block for that analysis is the retention rate. Example: How many players bought the game in 2015, then stopped playing in 2016? They (and other cases) count toward the total, hence also affect the percentages for completion rates.
I'm not saying that more people started on free trials (stopped when ended), or stopped playing than carried on with it -- I wouldn't know, I don't have the figures and trends to make that claim, or any assumption
. What I am saying is that user churn is not accounted for in those numbers. The values are skewed by that. Intelligent analysis can only take place when adequate margins and boundaries are set against the numbers that encompass and allow for such tolerances, and help identify patterns.
Yes, your numbers are 100% correct for the context in which you presented them, but the context is only halfway correct for meaningful interpretation -- numbers don't lie, but they can omit many truths.
As for the discussion at hand -- for older content, it would be nice to have an extra layer of difficulty, but at the same time, that content was a design that suited for its time -- it serves as a laddered difficulty to progress through; likewise, bringing the lower to mid tier ability/experience players into DLC by providing a difficulty layer between normal and vet. The older content is easily scaled up with extra resistances and health, the latter dungeons likewise, scaling down. Providing a happier middle ground for both old and new content.
It's all good on paper, but a shift in player attitude is needed, and unless dungeon design drastically changes to incorporate more creative mechanics (hell, what about adventure mechanics and multi-path dungeons with puzzles to solve along the way, or secrets) and fewer one shots, the base will happily avoid harder content, and the schism will grow, overland will remain face roll easy, dungeons will get progressively harder.
Providing options for higher level players to handicap themselves is an interesting thought -- but you can already do this by not assigning CP, and not wearing certain gear, and then without enforcing anything on anyone else...
Hmmmm.Edited by mairwen85 on February 27, 2019 1:31PM1 -
Kamatsu✭✭✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
The older dungeons are based more on the fundamentals of RPG game play. So increasing their difficulty should have the desired effect and just make them more fun.
The reason so many players haven't bothered to clear DLC dungeons is because they are usually based on annoying trial by error "mechanics" which turns off a lot of players.
Increasing their difficulty woud have < 0,1% attendance just like DLC ones and would be absolutely complete wast of dev time.
What they SHOULD do is solo mode for dungeons. Its a win-win for playerbase ans ZOS bottom line.Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
You can’t rely on PS4 trophy stats as they include everybody who’s ever logged into the game, including all the people who only played during the free play weeks and the people who played maybe for a few weeks and hated the game then traded it in. Those stats are not reliable enough to use in the argument.
You can cry about them all you want, numbers dont lie....just people who dont like the numbers.
LOL what kind of argument is that? I give you a solid reason why those particular statistics can’t be trusted and you just come back with ‘cry about them all you want’. My god, that’s pretty *** poor. What a child.
Thing is, historically speaking when you look at raiding & doing "hard" content in MMO's, the number's shown via PS4 trophies is a somewhat accurate representation.
Take WoW for instance. A MMO that was, and is, known for it's 'raiding' community & it's 'lets do hard content' community. Back in 2012 WoW dev's on the old WoW forums revealed the reason's for the raid changes they made in WotLK, why they worked on LFR system, etc. Why?
Because of how few players ever did any raids and hard content. Only around 6-7% of the player base had ever set foot into a raid, only 4-5% had ever completed even the 1st raid, only ~1% had reached the top-tier raid, and less that 0.5% had completed it.
Because of how few players were experiencing the high level / hard content the Dev's had worked their butts off making, they made changes to raiding to make it easier, more accessible, moved a previously top-tier raid to a bottom-tier raid, added in LFR system, etc.
So while the PS4 trophies numbers might not be 100% accurate for the reason's stated - when you consider the whole picture, trends & history of other MMO's when dealing with raids / hard content... it's still a decent enough reflection of the fact that very few players are interested in doing 'hard' content and/or raids or such.
If the "king" of MMO's which was known as the "raid or don't bother" MMO can't even get 10% of it's playerbase to participate in hard content... why do you think an MMO such as ESO, which is known more for it's story, would be any different?
Note: I'm not against hard content in ESO. In fact I think there should be hard dungeons and such for those who want to do hard content. I'm just against the incorrect narrative that a lot of players are into this kind of content.
As for the suggested 'harder' difficulty to older content. Dunno. Wouldn't it be better if they were able to re-balance the supposed 'hard' difficulty of these dungeons instead?
Also, to actually make the new/existing 'hard' mode actually decent, wouldn't they need to re-do a lot of the fights and zone maps to incorporate different mechanics to the fights? Else all you'd likely get is mobs with added hp & damage... which doesn't make things interesting, just tediously boring imo.Edited by Kamatsu on February 27, 2019 1:43PMo_O2 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
The older dungeons are based more on the fundamentals of RPG game play. So increasing their difficulty should have the desired effect and just make them more fun.
The reason so many players haven't bothered to clear DLC dungeons is because they are usually based on annoying trial by error "mechanics" which turns off a lot of players.
Increasing their difficulty woud have < 0,1% attendance just like DLC ones and would be absolutely complete wast of dev time.
What they SHOULD do is solo mode for dungeons. Its a win-win for playerbase ans ZOS bottom line.Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
You can’t rely on PS4 trophy stats as they include everybody who’s ever logged into the game, including all the people who only played during the free play weeks and the people who played maybe for a few weeks and hated the game then traded it in. Those stats are not reliable enough to use in the argument.
You can cry about them all you want, numbers dont lie....just people who dont like the numbers.
LOL what kind of argument is that? I give you a solid reason why those particular statistics can’t be trusted and you just come back with ‘cry about them all you want’. My god, that’s pretty *** poor. What a child.
Thing is, historically speaking when you look at raiding & doing "hard" content in MMO's, the number's shown via PS4 trophies is a somewhat accurate representation.
Take WoW for instance. A MMO that was, and is, known for it's 'raiding' community & it's 'lets do hard content' community. Back in 2012 WoW dev's on the old WoW forums revealed the reason's for the raid changes they made in WotLK, why they worked on LFR system, etc. Why?
Because of how few players ever did any raids and hard content. Only around 6-7% of the player base had ever set foot into a raid, only 4-5% had ever completed even the 1st raid, only ~1% had reached the top-tier raid, and less that 0.5% had completed it.
Because of how few players were experiencing the high level / hard content the Dev's had worked their butts off making, they made changes to raiding to make it easier, more accessible, moved a previously top-tier raid to a bottom-tier raid, added in LFR system, etc.
So while the PS4 trophies numbers might not be 100% accurate for the reason's stated - when you consider the whole picture, trends & history of other MMO's when dealing with raids / hard content... it's still a decent enough reflection of the fact that very few players are interested in doing 'hard' content and/or raids or such.
If the "king" of MMO's which was known as the "raid or don't bother" MMO can't even get 10% of it's playerbase to participate in hard content... why do you think an MMO such as ESO, which is known more for it's story, would be any different?
Note: I'm not against hard content in ESO. In fact I think there should be hard dungeons and such for those who want to do hard content. I'm just against the incorrect narrative that a lot of players are into this kind of content.
I think the trophy numbers have been diluted too much with free to play week and buy, play for a week and trade in players for them to have enough of an accurate representation for it to be legitimately used in these sort of arguments. While there’s a decent chance what you say is true, there’s also a decent chance it isn’t.
Until ZOS actually releases those sort of statistics, none of us will know for sure, all we have is speculation, which isn’t a concrete enough reason to discontinue making challenging content in the game.
Also I think the fact that they keep churning out these dungeons DLC’s is pretty telling. Admittedly there are other factors at play there, development costs I’d imagine would be lower to make these dungeons as opposed to a brand new zone (I don’t know that for sure though) but if the numbers were as low as the childish poster before keeps wheeling out in multiple threads to anybody that will listen (which at this point, people are just not taking him seriously anymore) then I don’t think they would be churning them out as much as they are.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm not really sold on this idea.
If you want to play the mechanics of a dungeon, play it on alts, play it while leveling up, carry friends, etc. Scaling up boss HP and damage levels (which is all ZOS would do for a supervet mode, let's be real) would just be tedious and not really add any difficulty, imo.
Most boss fights in ESO, especially in the base game, have 3-4 mechanics. Once you get those down, it's just a matter of being patient and playing them until whatever level of DPS you are at clears the health bar. Making that time longer just isn't compelling to me.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
The older dungeons are based more on the fundamentals of RPG game play. So increasing their difficulty should have the desired effect and just make them more fun.
The reason so many players haven't bothered to clear DLC dungeons is because they are usually based on annoying trial by error "mechanics" which turns off a lot of players.
Increasing their difficulty woud have < 0,1% attendance just like DLC ones and would be absolutely complete wast of dev time.
What they SHOULD do is solo mode for dungeons. Its a win-win for playerbase ans ZOS bottom line.Complete waste of time....even dungeon DLCs are complete waste of devs time
"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.
4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.
2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.
1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.
1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.
0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.
When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."
You can’t rely on PS4 trophy stats as they include everybody who’s ever logged into the game, including all the people who only played during the free play weeks and the people who played maybe for a few weeks and hated the game then traded it in. Those stats are not reliable enough to use in the argument.
You can cry about them all you want, numbers dont lie....just people who dont like the numbers.
LOL what kind of argument is that? I give you a solid reason why those particular statistics can’t be trusted and you just come back with ‘cry about them all you want’. My god, that’s pretty *** poor. What a child.
Thing is, historically speaking when you look at raiding & doing "hard" content in MMO's, the number's shown via PS4 trophies is a somewhat accurate representation.
Take WoW for instance. A MMO that was, and is, known for it's 'raiding' community & it's 'lets do hard content' community. Back in 2012 WoW dev's on the old WoW forums revealed the reason's for the raid changes they made in WotLK, why they worked on LFR system, etc. Why?
Because of how few players ever did any raids and hard content. Only around 6-7% of the player base had ever set foot into a raid, only 4-5% had ever completed even the 1st raid, only ~1% had reached the top-tier raid, and less that 0.5% had completed it.
Because of how few players were experiencing the high level / hard content the Dev's had worked their butts off making, they made changes to raiding to make it easier, more accessible, moved a previously top-tier raid to a bottom-tier raid, added in LFR system, etc.
So while the PS4 trophies numbers might not be 100% accurate for the reason's stated - when you consider the whole picture, trends & history of other MMO's when dealing with raids / hard content... it's still a decent enough reflection of the fact that very few players are interested in doing 'hard' content and/or raids or such.
If the "king" of MMO's which was known as the "raid or don't bother" MMO can't even get 10% of it's playerbase to participate in hard content... why do you think an MMO such as ESO, which is known more for it's story, would be any different?
Note: I'm not against hard content in ESO. In fact I think there should be hard dungeons and such for those who want to do hard content. I'm just against the incorrect narrative that a lot of players are into this kind of content.
I think the trophy numbers have been diluted too much with free to play week and buy, play for a week and trade in players for them to have enough of an accurate representation for it to be legitimately used in these sort of arguments. While there’s a decent chance what you say is true, there’s also a decent chance it isn’t.
Until ZOS actually releases those sort of statistics, none of us will know for sure, all we have is speculation, which isn’t a concrete enough reason to discontinue making challenging content in the game.
Also I think the fact that they keep churning out these dungeons DLC’s is pretty telling. Admittedly there are other factors at play there, development costs I’d imagine would be lower to make these dungeons as opposed to a brand new zone (I don’t know that for sure though) but if the numbers were as low as the childish poster before keeps wheeling out in multiple threads to anybody that will listen (which at this point, people are just not taking him seriously anymore) then I don’t think they would be churning them out as much as they are.
They kep making them for teh same reason they made "vet zones" and "vet levels" at launch - they are delusional and oblivious to the financial impacts (loss) and hidden by the fact they are "free for ESO+ members". Even with THAT the numbers are abbysmal.
You crying about the numbers is beyond hilarious.Edited by MikaHR on February 27, 2019 1:56PM0 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree. The old veteran content is now 'too easy'. The new DLC dungeons are too hard.
We need a little more difficulty on old-content and a little less difficulty on new content.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Def don't think they're too hard.2 -
ghastley✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe add "Impossible mode" where every mob can one-hit anybody, and respawns immediately. You could announce that it's impossible, (so that it's "fair") and the completionists would still need to try. That would keep them happy indefinitely.
We'd still get people on the forum boasting that they completed them ...0
