twofaced wrote: »

ok if everyone finished mocking off their empty heads, I advise you to read this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire

and visit these:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor
https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

I doubt you could understand much in such a gentle age, this info is more likely for adults, but still.

@AMeanOne, @Emma_Overload, @Ashanne

Congratulation, you found the toys that are meant for adults.

Seems you need some help to understand how they work ...

twofaced wrote: »

Facepalm... You do realize that 30% reduction is a 15% in pvp, right? It's not even worth wearing with 50% chance.

So do you disagree that 3009 - 30% = 2106 ?

Or do you think the tools you provided are wrong ?

Which one is it ?

Sharee wrote: »

1, the assumption that this set always procs on cooldown is too generous. The proc rate heavily depends on who you are fighting. If it is a DOT/bleed build, the proc rate is significantly higher than when you are fighting a burst build, like a stamwarden (shalks+dawnbreaker+execute and dead) or a magsorc (curse+fury+cage+meteor+frag and dead).

2, when evaluating the set, you have to take into account the opportunity cost of not using some other set. While pirate skeleton is indeed a very good defensive set, it does not help you kill your opponent any faster, like for example skoria or selene would, nor does it give high sustain like engine guardian etc. You may well find yourself unable to kill that templar who just heals himself to full everytime you damage him because you sacrificed burst for tankiness, and eventually he will run you out of resources and wear you down.

3, the best measure of whether something is truly overpowered or not is answering the question: does everyone in PvP wear it? Now this is just anecdotal evidence of course, but personally i haven't seen a pirate skeleton proc in quite some time(nor have i used it in quite some time, i prefer bloodspawn myself). YMMW of course, but all i see nowadays is earthgore

Your third point is exactly what kept going through my head as I read this thread - does anyone actually use this set any longer? I feel like it’s been about a year since I can recall anyone that I run with wearing it. I run with a large PvP guild and I play daily. It seems to me like everyone is in Cyrodiil is in Blood Spawn, Earthgore, Balorgh, Troll King, Selene’s, or Veli...

Aznox wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

1, the assumption that this set always procs on cooldown is too generous. The proc rate heavily depends on who you are fighting. If it is a DOT/bleed build, the proc rate is significantly higher than when you are fighting a burst build, like a stamwarden (shalks+dawnbreaker+execute and dead) or a magsorc (curse+fury+cage+meteor+frag and dead).

2, when evaluating the set, you have to take into account the opportunity cost of not using some other set. While pirate skeleton is indeed a very good defensive set, it does not help you kill your opponent any faster, like for example skoria or selene would, nor does it give high sustain like engine guardian etc. You may well find yourself unable to kill that templar who just heals himself to full everytime you damage him because you sacrificed burst for tankiness, and eventually he will run you out of resources and wear you down.

3, the best measure of whether something is truly overpowered or not is answering the question: does everyone in PvP wear it? Now this is just anecdotal evidence of course, but personally i haven't seen a pirate skeleton proc in quite some time(nor have i used it in quite some time, i prefer bloodspawn myself). YMMW of course, but all i see nowadays is earthgore

Your third point is exactly what kept going through my head as I read this thread - does anyone actually use this set any longer? I feel like it’s been about a year since I can recall anyone that I run with wearing it. I run with a large PvP guild and I play daily. It seems to me like everyone is in Cyrodiil is in Blood Spawn, Earthgore, Balorgh, Troll King, Selene’s, or Veli...

Everyone will have their own experience about this, but among the PvP groups i frequent, Pirate Skeleton is considered Top tier, on par with Blood Spawn, TK, Balorgh, etc..

Top tier does not necessarily mean nerf-worthy though.

In my experience, pirate skeleton requires you to have a tanky character to begin with before it really has a chance to shine. If you wear it with a light armor set/low resistances, chances are you're going to get bursted down before pirate skeleton has a chance to proc, or it will proc when you already are at 20% HP from a burst, and the incoming execute will do enough damage to kill you even after 30% reduction while you are unable to leave execute range struggling against the debuff.

Wearing it with a tanky build (brass) has much better results, but then you are dedicating two of your three sets to defense/mitigation, which leaves you with lacking damage output and/or sustain.

This is why i prefer bloodspawn atm - it provides some tankiness when it procs(~10% overall benefit compared to skelly's 15%), but also allows me to charge ultimate faster helping with damage output, plus has a small resource management benefit as well.

Aznox wrote: »

Never said Pirate Skeleton is superior to Blood Spawn in all situations, but i don't think the opposite is true either.

Sharee wrote: »

(~10% overall benefit compared to skelly's 15%)

Major Protection is 30%. (Then you can take Minor Defile into account for sustained staying power, but for burst protection vs multiple targets, not many things comes close to Pirate Skeleton)

By "overall benefit" i mean how the set helps you. The proc of pirate skeleton provides 30% incoming damage reduction, but also 15% incoming heal reduction, so when you continually heal yourself while being continually damaged, the set causes you to lose health 15% slower. Thus, 15% benefit. Bloodspawn proc in the same circumstances causes you to lose health ~10% slower so ~10% benefit.

Aznox wrote: »

but for burst protection vs multiple targets, not many things comes close to Pirate Skeleton

The problem with burst protection is that the sets work best when you are subjected to many small hits over (relatively) long period of time, which is the opposite of burst. If you get hit by shalks/dawnbreaker/executioner, you would have to be very lucky for pirate skeleton to protect you, unless it was already procced by someone else tickling you with small attacks.

So in the end, it is not significantly better than bloodspawn against pressure damage(as opposed to burst), and it also is not very good against burst coming from a focused damage source - basically, the best case scenario is one dangerous bursty opponent attacking you alongside someone who does no meaningful damage but continually procs PS. That's a bit too narrow for me giving up stam regen/ult gain for it. But, YMMV.

Sharee wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Never said Pirate Skeleton is superior to Blood Spawn in all situations, but i don't think the opposite is true either.

Sharee wrote: »

(~10% overall benefit compared to skelly's 15%)

Major Protection is 30%. (Then you can take Minor Defile into account for sustained staying power, but for burst protection vs multiple targets, not many things comes close to Pirate Skeleton)

By "overall benefit" i mean how the set helps you. The proc of pirate skeleton provides 30% incoming damage reduction, but also 15% incoming heal reduction, so when you continually heal yourself while being continually damaged, the set causes you to lose health 15% slower. Thus, 15% benefit. Bloodspawn proc in the same circumstances causes you to lose health ~10% slower so ~10% benefit.

Aznox wrote: »

but for burst protection vs multiple targets, not many things comes close to Pirate Skeleton

The problem with burst protection is that the sets work best when you are subjected to many small hits over (relatively) long period of time, which is the opposite of burst. If you get hit by shalks/dawnbreaker/executioner, you would have to be very lucky for pirate skeleton to protect you, unless it was already procced by someone else tickling you with small attacks.

So in the end, it is not significantly better than bloodspawn against pressure damage(as opposed to burst), and it also is not very good against burst coming from a focused damage source - basically, the best case scenario is one dangerous bursty opponent attacking you alongside someone who does no meaningful damage but continually procs PS. That's a bit too narrow for me giving up stam regen/ult gain for it. But, YMMV.

For one, that is not how the math works, but it's not necessarily in Pirate Skeleton's favour compared to what you stated, so whatever.
However, you also leave out the 1 pc bonus, which is easily superior to Blood Spawn's stam regen on basically any build.
In practice, the slower moving healthbar is itself very helpful because you can take periodic bursts that much easier, thus spending fewer resources on mitigating them/recovering from them and controlling the fight better. It also makes it far easier to counter an opponent's burst with your own, using the opening it creates.
Burst from multiple enemies in a drawn out engagement doesn't usually happen without constant hits from various sources before that, but it's admittedly not the best for say a squishy NB leaving LOS to burst on several enemies. In small scale with equal numbers and healers however, it's very potent for countering bursts on the most squishy targets, especially if minor defile is at play anyway. It just leaves a small window at the end of it's effect before the cooldown resets, in which one can make sure to play defensively.


At OP, the set is very powerful indeed, but I don't think it needs to be nerfed other than possibly reducing shield strength. It used to be very overpowered on shields, even after that "nerf" which made it not proc on them; however, it's not quite as dominant as it used to be now, as resistances on shields reduce the extra effectiveness added by Pirate Skeleton, while Bloodspawn and Mighty Chudan became very enticing to use in conjunction with shields as well.

Ashanne wrote: »

Lets be real here, this set is completely overperforming.
I suggest the following changes, to make it more on par with other defensive monster sets.
1. remove the defile, remove the proc chance but instead give it Minor Protection at all times instead of major.
2. Add an extra line of max health to the 2 piece, similair to Mighty Chudan.

this way chudan and skelly offer roughly the same mitigation. Chudan being for the ones who dont have a spot on the skillbar for major ward/resolve, and skelly for those that do.

Expecting some backlash because this monster set is widely used (for obvious being OP reasons) but lets be nice and discuss this

You posted this on the 16th which was Saturday, which leads me to believe you went for the weekend Cyrodiil incusion,
got killed by one person wearing it and here comes a "NERF CRY" , there are other ways to cause similar effects that Pirate Skeleton does in terms of defense without the defile unless your enemy defiles you.

Really let’s just nerf everything for people like you. If you can’t beat it, nerf it.