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On Animation Canceling, Yes, Again
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alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »If it’s part of the game and beneficial. LEARN TO DO IT AND USE IT.
People want success without putting in the work. Hence nerf threads. ZOS WON’T remove it anyways.
Again, not sure what the OP asked at this point but most of us just want an Alternative for those who can't.0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
Are you asking for a mechanism to be implemented so that disabled people can do the same things as able bodied people? Just trying to be clear here.
Correct.
A mechanism that would be used by everyone. You’re asking to have LA damage built into skills, essentially. You can already do everything everyone else can, you just cannot do it as good because you don’t have the same skill set or ability, which is normal and expected in anything slightly competitive.
Real time action videogames do not get along with certain disabilities and they’re never going to simply due to the nature of the combat functions. ESO is not a dtrategy game and you cannot ask it be made into one when you are knowingly playing inside a game genre that will leave you disadvantaged due to your disabilities. This isn’t about animation canceling, which is at worst two buttons in a second. Macros should not be allowed, period.
Then don't allow them. Just allow for a in game option that solve the problem. How hard could it be for them to if option= activate LA with skill. Your just adding a line of code that tells attack skills to launch a light attack when or slight before the skill is activated. When the option is off nothing happens after that all that's required is to tap block every time you hit button 1. It's simple anyone cause it or not and does not give any more advantage over anything.
Again, you’re asking to, essentially, include LA damage into skill presses, thus removing a skillful aspect of the game, because absolutely everyone would use that option. A basketball player that is shorter than another will always be at a disadvantage when skill is equal. A video game player with a physical disabilities will always be at a disadvantage than a non-disabled player. These are normal and expected. Devs cannot make exceptions, or intentionally remove aspects of skill just because of the minority of players that go in knowing they will be at a disadvantage, not in core aspects of the game, just in the score pushes, the extra cushion dps, the things that are nice to have but are not at all necessary to effectively play the game.
To use the flying analogy, you buy a game that says you can fly. Due to your disability you cannot fly as fast as others, you say you must have the game adjusted so everyone flies at the same speed.Edited by Jhalin on February 24, 2019 9:11PM2 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »If it’s part of the game and beneficial. LEARN TO DO IT AND USE IT.
People want success without putting in the work. Hence nerf threads. ZOS WON’T remove it anyways.
Again, not sure what the OP asked at this point but most of us just want an Alternative for those who can't.
You know how you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice.3 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem I have with Ani Cancelling is that it's not equally available to all the classes which makes for a huge imbalance in PvP. If I get into a fight with a "skilled" Sorc or NB on my Templar they are going to be able to ani cancel attacks so that I'm getting hit with 10-15K a second yet because Templars have so many primary damage skills with cast times that can't be ani cancelled I have no way to keep up in a slug out and the fight turns into me spamming HoD until I run out of Magica and die. And if the Sorc or NB can manage to CC you for anything more than 1 second they can just basically blow you up before you can even react. I actually have a Sorc and everytime I play him in PvP I can't help but think to myself how OP it is compared to my Templar. A rotation of Curse, LA, Flame Reach, LA, FR, block cancel, Crushing Shock, block cancel, CS finished with Procced Frag can kill just about anyone if done smoothly as it averages around 43K (on my build) in under 3 seconds and the Flame reach disables you for most of that time.Edited by itscompton on February 24, 2019 9:58PM2 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.4 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »If it’s part of the game and beneficial. LEARN TO DO IT AND USE IT.
People want success without putting in the work. Hence nerf threads. ZOS WON’T remove it anyways.
Again, not sure what the OP asked at this point but most of us just want an Alternative for those who can't.
You know how you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice.
You misunderstand, if a person has any of the spoken issues for disabilities. Two things can happen they spend an ungodly amount of time practicing. I myself have done this 1 times with 1 game called SWG. Timing was important in game just like this one. I happen to be in high school and had 1 class. I spent 13+ hours a day for a year to master the timing that game had. That is an absolute Impossible thing for an employeed adult to do. The other thing is they use adaptive programs help them along. It's unreasonable to expect anyone to spend that much time trying to master a games mechanics when a over all better option is possible.0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »The problem I have with Ani Cancelling is that it's not equally available to all the classes which makes for a huge imbalance in PvP. If I get into a fight with a "skilled" Sorc or NB on my Templar they are going to be able to ani cancel attacks so that I'm getting hit with 10-15K a second yet because Templars have so many primary damage skills with cast times that can't be ani cancelled I have no way to keep up in a slug out and the fight turns into me spamming HoD until I run out of Magica and die. And if the Sorc or NB can manage to CC you for anything more than 1 second they can just basically blow you up before you can even react.
That’s not animation canceling, the damage gets applied before the animation anyway. Templar skills just have cast times that make them not so fun on non-bruiser builds, as opposed to the instant cast abilities on other classes.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.
So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.
And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.
Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.
Let's address this.
A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.
A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.
A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.
A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.
A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.
All of these are very possible and have solutions.
All of those people are probably already using macros and various assistive technologies, they just don't talk about it. I strongly suspect that the players who keep beating this dead horse are just plain lazy and refuse to adapt.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.1 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭Why are people against animation cancel? is the only mechanic that requires skill, and the only balanced one (every class can do it, every race can do it, every level can do it).4
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.
The option is to not so it. You don't NEED to apart from the very endgame content.
Sure, people will have an advantage over you in PvP but you can still play it. So the option is to just not do it...0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.
So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.
And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.
Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.
Let's address this.
A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.
A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.
A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.
A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.
A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.
All of these are very possible and have solutions.
All of those people are probably already using macros and various assistive technologies, they just don't talk about it. I strongly suspect that the players who keep beating this dead horse are just plain lazy and refuse to adapt.
Actually what prompted this was another thread trying to get someone band for useing macros which are against ToS. The whole point is the need for a legal way to adapt.0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭You have made many arguments in your wall of text that fall flat, and I could argue all day against your arguments since your point of view is obviously biased.
Bottom line is, animation cancelling is not required to be successful in ESO.
Let me say that again.
NOT REQUIRED
Anyone who says otherwise is simply too lazy or to stubborn to ask for help and improve. Period.
Now that we got that out of the way,
There is one reason why I think animation cancelling in it's current form actually should be reworked.
MACRO slicing.
The vast majority of players, even those that do animation cancel light attacks don't ever cancel with block od dodge, and rarely cancel with barswap.
The only players that do actually abuse the block/dodge/swap animation cancelling are cheaters.
Therefore, these three ways of cancelling attacks should be reworked to not fire the skill that is cast.
It's not easy.
It is very difficult in fact, to rework all the skills in the game to delay their effects, and doing so is very risky.
Everything could go wrong.
The combat itself is in jeopardy of becoming sluggish and damaging the reputation of the current fluid combat system ESO has.
So, in the end, is it really worth investing so much time and staff resources into something that wouldn't grant that much benefit to players?
Best case scenario, all works out, cheaters cannot macro slice anymore.
Worst case scenario? I'll leave it to your imagination.
Not worth the risk IMO.0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.
The option is to not so it. You don't NEED to apart from the very endgame content.
Sure, people will have an advantage over you in PvP but you can still play it. So the option is to just not do it...
So I paid 200+ so far on a game that no where does it say those with difficulty doing x,y,x may not be able to some content. No where does it say that. It does say something about epilepsy.0 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭I dont see the big issue with animation cancelling. There is still a global cooldown to cast other skills so I dont see a point in doing it anyways. It blocks stam recovery if you're constantly blocking cancelling crap so you're hurting yourself if you're a stam player
It is useful in pve content where I will be in the middle of a move and need to block immediately during an ability and it saves my life. Esp when you're tanking and need to block a move or else you get one shot
People just need to stop complaining about it. It's not hard to hold block during an ability and it hardly gives you any advantage in pvp. So can we stop beating the dead horse already....1 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭You have made many arguments in your wall of text that fall flat, and I could argue all day against your arguments since your point of view is obviously biased.
Bottom line is, animation cancelling is not required to be successful in ESO.
Let me say that again.
NOT REQUIRED
Anyone who says otherwise is simply too lazy or to stubborn to ask for help and improve. Period.
Now that we got that out of the way,
There is one reason why I think animation cancelling in it's current form actually should be reworked.
MACRO slicing.
The vast majority of players, even those that do animation cancel light attacks don't ever cancel with block od dodge, and rarely cancel with barswap.
The only players that do actually abuse the block/dodge/swap animation cancelling are cheaters.
Therefore, these three ways of cancelling attacks should be reworked to not fire the skill that is cast.
It's not easy.
It is very difficult in fact, to rework all the skills in the game to delay their effects, and doing so is very risky.
Everything could go wrong.
The combat itself is in jeopardy of becoming sluggish and damaging the reputation of the current fluid combat system ESO has.
So, in the end, is it really worth investing so much time and staff resources into something that wouldn't grant that much benefit to players?
Best case scenario, all works out, cheaters cannot macro slice anymore.
Worst case scenario? I'll leave it to your imagination.
Not worth the risk IMO.
Actually they don't even need to go that far they just need to enable light attack on skill activation as option in the settings for the client side options.0 -
iiYuki✭✭✭✭✭Bonusfeatures75 wrote: »Why do you want to dumb the game down? Animation canceling adds another layer of skill, something most MMO’s are really missing. How about people get good and learn how to do it?
Yes, that would require the big scary E word- Effort
Its the problem with the ESO community as a whole, I have never played an MMO with as many whiny, entitled and effortless people before. The number of threads a week about anything that requires even the slightest amount of effort or time (how meta achievement rewards (skins, personalities etc) should be easier to get, animation canceling, anti-meta threads etc), needing nerfing or changing is beyond annoying now, FFS I've read threads about how people want daily log-in rewards nerfing to weekly rewards because they shouldn't be expected to log in every day."Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it".
- ZO$
- The ZO$ Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUJWP_ebsQ5 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.
The option is to not so it. You don't NEED to apart from the very endgame content.
Sure, people will have an advantage over you in PvP but you can still play it. So the option is to just not do it...
So I paid 200+ so far on a game that no where does it say those with difficulty doing x,y,x may not be able to some content. No where does it say that. It does say something about epilepsy.
as war as i know skills and lightattack has gcd. macros are very limited.
some people here must wear tinfoil hats.3 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.
The option is to not so it. You don't NEED to apart from the very endgame content.
Sure, people will have an advantage over you in PvP but you can still play it. So the option is to just not do it...
So I paid 200+ so far on a game that no where does it say those with difficulty doing x,y,x may not be able to some content. No where does it say that. It does say something about epilepsy.
as war as i know skills and lightattack has gcd. macros are very limited.
some people here must wear tinfoil hats.
Light attack are not on the CGD as far as I know0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.
So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.
And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.
Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.
Let's address this.
A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.
A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.
A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.
A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.
A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.
All of these are very possible and have solutions.
And none of those disabilities serve as an inhibitor to animation canceling anymore than they do to the game in general.
Let examine how animation canceling works.
Animation canceling requires that a person be able to input information via button pres at a certain speed as minimum requirement. We know the GCD is 1 Second and that to weve or animation cancel you preform 1 - 2 other actions in a repeating sequence. This sequence would have to be fast enough to be lower then 2s but couldn't be faster then 1.001 seconds. This would have to occur in a repeating sequence 100s of times in a row with little to no error. Anyone with the stated issues would have to adapt to macros, alter keys bindings or just not do it.
There are numerous things in this game that require similar reaction times. Again physical disabilities impede ones ability to play the game, but this is not exclusive to animation canceling. There is nothing to solve.
Reaction time and sequenced actions are two very different things.
A reaction to say a incoming event only requires one or maybe two reactions. For example a NPC is doing a heavy attack, I can roll or block. That is 1 action.Note that this reaction can occur over more then 3 seconds. It typically does not occur in under 2 second intervials with multiple imputs within the 1-2 second range. In the case of a player two Actions are going to be preform thats a non sequenced repetitive reaction.
For example I am being attack by a melee player I am a ranged user with little to no armor. I know I need to get away. My kit allows 2 things that I am able to chose to perform, and 2 other actions that I don't chose. I chose which CC/Escape/deffsenive moves I have and the amount of key actions required to preform it. Then I have roll/block and of course runaway. So in that case of a CC that is one actions not a LA, skill, block sequence. In the case of a shield that is repetitive hitting the same button with no sequence such as LA,skill, block for canceling. Now in the case of a situation I am useing two skills to get away that is two actions that are sequenced Repetitive actions. example pushing button 1 and button 2 most likely not in a sequence depending on the actions effect. Now if I had to cancel the animation of a two actions it would be a sequence of LA,skill, block twice in a range of 1-2 seconds in a repetitive sequence x amount of time.
Reaction vs Repetitive Sequences are very different.
I fixed some Grammer issues...cuz I suck at English.
Sigh... okay im just going to simplify this man.
Having difficulty hitting 2 or 3 different keys in a second is not an issue regarding animation canceling nor does it compound any issue. That is simply the game. And those suffering from physical limitations have the unfortunate burden of figuring out ways to play around them. For this to even go anywhere, you need to accept the simple truth that animation canceling is not some elaborate multi button exercise in dexterity that would make *** umehara blush.
Its literallt just hitting 2 buttons every second.
So I don't think your understanding how difficult this can be. You line of thinking is push button A push button b.
In this case this for myself if it's in a slow interaction at 4-5 seconds I could do LA, Skill, BLK in rapid sequence probably, if this button I was hitting for the skill was exactly the same. But if I had LA,Skill, Block in a 2 second period rapidly between shift inputts in a nonset sequence it would be impossible. 3 actions occuring in sequence under 2 seconds while also doing everything else required to operate a toon. It's not like your just standing still doing this sequences. All allot of people want is to be able to reduce actions taken. For me personally if I could reduce the number of imputs per second I had to do by 1 I'd personally be ok but this may not be the case for others.
The issue this thought doesn’t take into account is the fundamental reason we have AC.
We need to be able to block when we need to block. The GCD ensures enough time has passed for the skill to fire which prevents exploiting the system. This game is not a simplistic design like WoW and FF as we require active defenses to survive on this game. Even more so in PvP than PvE.
Yes, that does require a higher skill level to do well on this game but that is probably part of the reason we choose ESO vs those overly simplistic MMORPG models like WoW and FF.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sabbathius wrote: »OK, so we have another wave of posts and polls about animation canceling, as we have had, for pretty much the past 5 years. A goodly portion of players (41% on the poll currently on front page) believe it's bad for the game, for one reason or another. But I see people are still butting heads over nomenclature and misunderstanding. So let's try to define what people actually object to, and try to logically explain what is needed, and what, logically, makes no sense. This is going to be a long one, so buckle up.
First, when people say they want animation canceling gone, first counterargument is that this will make the game unplayable. If you start Endless Hail animation, with no way to interrupt it, and boss initiates a 1-shot mechanic you must block or die, without animation canceling you die. That's the argument. But that is not what people who are asking for animation canceling to go away are asking for. A distinction has to be made between *EMERGENCY* animation canceling, and *ROUTINE* animation canceling that is part of the rotation.
Currently, routine animation canceling is what we have. We cancel animations for the sake of canceling animations, and squeezing out more performance. We do not cancel only in emergencies. By comparison, most other MMOs have animation canceling for emergencies only, and this is reinforced by cast-and-effect. That is, the effect of the spell only occurs if the animation is allowed to play in full, or for the cast to complete. ESO already has some of this, if you animation cancel anything with a cast time, you won't get an effect. Trouble is, vast majority of ESO's abilities are instant, thus you cancel the animation, but still get the effect. Think of it this way - I am pouring a glass of water, and someone interrupts me. Do I magically end up holding a glass full of water? No. I was interrupted. I didn't finish pouring. My glass isn't full. In ESO, currently, you can interrupt, and still end up with a full glass.
In short, when people say "remove animation canceling", they are referring to *ROUTINE* animation canceling as part of the rotation, NOT animation canceling entirely. So can we please stop freaking out and yelling "OMG, what if I have to block!?" Moving on...
So, what's a better way? Allow animation canceling, like today. But the trigger is tied to the animation finish. You press a button, resource cost (magicka, stamina, etc) is subtracted from your resource pool, and animation begins to play. No effect has occurred yet. Animation finishes playing. Effect occurs. At any point throughout this, you can cancel via block, dodge, bar swap, bash, etc. But if you do, no effect will occur, because animation never finishes, and no resources are refunded. Meaning, if you have to move, if you have to block, etc., you CAN, that aspect of the game doesn't change. But now you can't just spam stuff at the target willy-nilly, you have to be selective about what you cast and when, as opposed to hammering out a rotation blindly regardless of context.
Now, this usually spawns two other arguments. First being "this will make the game too slow". Yes, for some, and also not necessarily. You have to remember, some people like lightning-fast gameplay, others like slow and tactical gameplay (which is also why turn-based games are still a thing), and there's people in the middle. So, if the game got a little slower and that was bad for you, there's be other players for whom this would be good. So the change wouldn't be a net negative. And when I said "not necessarily", it means some of the longer animations can be sped up, or buffed in damage so that the result is commensurate with the animation duration. Longer animation -> bigger bang. Another alternative would be longer animation -> less cost, you'd be trading animation time for lower resource consumption, but risk forced interrupt via mechanics.
Now, let me delve into the logical objection to animation canceling. Can we all agree that developers spend time and effort creating those pretty animations? Yes, yes? Anybody disagree? Remember the Warden reveal, where they spent half an hour just showing off those pretty animations, and how much love and care went into those? If you don't, just wait another month, they will do the same with Necromancer. BUT, why are they doing this, if we're all supposed to L2P and git gud and cancel animations? I have yet to have anyone make a cogent, logical argument why developers would waste precious time and money on creating animations we're never meant to see in full. Anyone care to try and explain? So, right there, is a logical contradiction.
Second logical objection is, animations in this game are meant to convey what is being cast. Enemy starts casting, you see what is being cast, you react accordingly. That's how it works with NPCs, including bosses. You see the animation, you know what's coming, you take steps. That is not the case for players. You often get hit by things the animation of which you never saw, because they were block-canceled 0.2 seconds after they began. Imagine PvE in this game, like a vet boss fight or raid, if bosses suddenly started animation canceling. Would that be fun? And would that look good? Doubt it, right? If you disagree, fire up a poll, and ask "Should bosses be animation canceling? Yea/Nay" and see the results. But I think we both know what the results will be, yes? Moving on.
Third, what about discrimination against partially disabled players. OK, the easiest response would be "screw them!" or "who cares?" Not something most people here would say to someone's face in person, of course, but this is internet and /r/iamverybasass is a thing. However, let me point out that a lot of ESO's player base aren't kids. They're middle aged people *with* kids. Some of these people work with their hands, and the last thing they need after a 12 hr shift is to have to physically abuse their keyboard and mouse, trying to squeeze out Starcraft-like 400 APM. Again, I am not dismissing people who enjoy this, just pointing out that vast, vast majority of us cannot, physically, pull this off any longer. And when it comes to partial disabilities, this game ALREADY took steps towards helping these players. We can now set the telegraph color and opacity for better visibility, for example. There's still no colorblind mode, as far as I know, but most modern games that care about their user base have them by default. Last game I played would be recently-released Anthem, for example, which has multiple colorblind options built in since beta, to make sure players can see what is happening. And while these people are a minority, current estimate is approximately 8% for males. That's not insignificant. Well, in that vein, what about people who can't, due to age, arthritis, injury, etc., hammer out the perfect LA->Ability->Block cancel all the time, every time? Do we leave them overboard?
Then, there's also the question of animation canceling on a purely technical level not being attainable by some players, due to distance from server. Yes, people with 30-50ms latency can get these nice, crisp rotations. It's lovely. What about those of us with consistently triple digit latency, which spikes? Especially in places like Cyrodiil, where even bar-swapping sometimes doesn't register? I am asking this in the interests of fairness. We all know how in P2P games the host has the advantage, right? Well, can we then admit that someone at 30ms has a significant advantage, even just in PvE performance, to someone sitting at 300ms? Especially if that latency isn't uniform, but fluctuates between 200 and 400ms for the average of 300ms? Ever tried to animation cancel under these conditions? It's unreliable. So what is your response? Move closer to the server, you scrub? Not a very good response, now is it? But without animation canceling, suddenly it's not much of an issue. With ability queuing buffer (sometimes even under player's control to tweak to their liking), most other MMOs play just fine at those latencies. So that's another reason to ditch animation canceling.
Another argument to do away with animation canceling is balancing. Again, we've all seen the threads, haven't we? Please make X dungeon easier. No, make X dungeon harder. If ZOS balances the game for animation cancelers in mind, the dungeon will be so hard for Nana, Nono and Lil' Fabrizio. Who cannot, for love or money, animation cancel as well as you. Filthy casuals... Ehem, anyway. On the flipside, if ZOS balances the game for non-cancelers, the animation cancelers will go through that content, to quote General Patton, "like crap through a goose". And nobody is happy! Well, with animation canceling removed, this is no longer a consideration. And now the mechanics can be centered around making people *think* as opposed to hammering on keys like a spastic monkey. Choose what abilities to use, and when, based on animation length and context, as opposed to locking down the muscle memory and just hammering it out. Which brings us to macros.
Ah, yes. Zee macros, the horrible M-word. OK, first off, macros exist. Most of us use them. YES, probably even you! It just depends on how rigidly or loosely you define the word "macro". If your mouse or keyboard is programmable, you already use a macro, it's just the macro is simple. Press 4 with your thumb on the mouse, mouse executes 4. That's a simple macro - press 4, get 4. More complicated macro would be press 4, get left mouse button->short wait->4->short wait->right mouse button. This performs a light weave, an ability bound to 4, and block-cancels the animation. Now, these are against TOS, but people still use them. Especially people with disabilities or injuries, like a guildmate of mine last summer after a car crash. It was that, or walk away from ESO, and considering the guy was bedridden, that's just cruel and unusual punishment. OK, so against TOS, and it's bad, so don't do it, m'kay? But how far are we willing to take this mentality?
What I mean is, abilities in ESO are on-release. They fire not when you depress the key, but when you release the key. So would a macro that does "depress and release key" be cheating, and against TOS? It's still 1-to-1 input, you press 4, you get 4. But with this macro, the game doesn't wait for you to release the key, keypress and release are simultaneous. Is this cheating? Prooooobably, right? Though maybe not quite? Starting to get a little grey? OK, so let's take it a little farther towards absurdity. Would using a short travel time keyboard be cheating then? Especially if the keyboard doesn't allow hold-key, meaning every keypress the keyboard considers an automatic key release. Think about it. Where with a normal average keyboard you start depressing the key, it moves a while, then registers the keypress, but keeps moving down a bit until it bottoms out, and then you release the key, it starts moving back, and spring strength (or rubber or what have you) determines the acceleration of that snapback, and registers a release, and only THEN does your ability begin to fire? As opposed to someone using a short travel time keyboard, and with a slightest movement it registers a keypress, and immediately generates a release as well. That's mechanical cheating! They are shaving off microseconds with every single keypress, accruing entire seconds over the course of a play session! Monsters! Sooo, do we persecute and punish that as well? Do we track down people using red switches, and force them to use black switches instead? No, we don't.
What I'm getting at is that macro isn't a script. It's not automation. You're still at the keyboard, pressing all the same buttons. And global cooldown still prevents you from activating more abilities in a second than anybody else. But you have pressing *fewer* buttons. Which brinngs me to manual light attacking. I wasn't going to touch it, so it wouldn't muddy the waters, but I'll mention it quick. There's a very good reason vast majority of MMOS either don't have these, or have these on autocast (also known as autoattack). Picture EVE Online ('03) or WoW ('04) or WAR ('08), etc., where autoattacks in those games had to be done manually with a left mouse click. Did the game just get better, or worse? I bet most would say it got significantly worse. It's just busy work. It distracts, puts unnecessary wear on the user's fingers and needlessly reduces the lifespan of our peripherals. It is, for lack of a better word, medieval.
OK, so I'll wrap this up on that. If you are going to respond, please start with attempting to answer some of the questions I posed. Like, how do you reconcile developers spending a lot of time creating animations, with apparent intent for those animations to not be seen via animation canceling. Or how would WoW or EVE's gameplay improve by making all autoattacks manual cast.
If you got this far, kudos to you, good sir or madam. Thanks for reading.
ZOS, on the odd chance you see this, please consider doing something about this. It is time. It's been 5 years, it's 2019. The mechanics of combat in this game are, frankly, embarrassing. It looks like you tried to fix it, failed, and instead enshrined it as a feature.
I read the first several paragraphs and your solution sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Sadly, I'm pretty confident the developers have already come to the conclusion the amount of coding and work that would be required to implement this isn't worth it. So I wouldn't get your hopes up. But it would be welcomed change as far as I'm concerned. I've always thought animation canceling awkward and sloppy and very silly to look at.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.
So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.
And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.
Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.
Let's address this.
A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.
A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.
A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.
A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.
A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.
All of these are very possible and have solutions.
And none of those disabilities serve as an inhibitor to animation canceling anymore than they do to the game in general.
Let examine how animation canceling works.
Animation canceling requires that a person be able to input information via button pres at a certain speed as minimum requirement. We know the GCD is 1 Second and that to weve or animation cancel you preform 1 - 2 other actions in a repeating sequence. This sequence would have to be fast enough to be lower then 2s but couldn't be faster then 1.001 seconds. This would have to occur in a repeating sequence 100s of times in a row with little to no error. Anyone with the stated issues would have to adapt to macros, alter keys bindings or just not do it.
There are numerous things in this game that require similar reaction times. Again physical disabilities impede ones ability to play the game, but this is not exclusive to animation canceling. There is nothing to solve.
Reaction time and sequenced actions are two very different things.
A reaction to say a incoming event only requires one or maybe two reactions. For example a NPC is doing a heavy attack, I can roll or block. That is 1 action.Note that this reaction can occur over more then 3 seconds. It typically does not occur in under 2 second intervials with multiple imputs within the 1-2 second range. In the case of a player two Actions are going to be preform thats a non sequenced repetitive reaction.
For example I am being attack by a melee player I am a ranged user with little to no armor. I know I need to get away. My kit allows 2 things that I am able to chose to perform, and 2 other actions that I don't chose. I chose which CC/Escape/deffsenive moves I have and the amount of key actions required to preform it. Then I have roll/block and of course runaway. So in that case of a CC that is one actions not a LA, skill, block sequence. In the case of a shield that is repetitive hitting the same button with no sequence such as LA,skill, block for canceling. Now in the case of a situation I am useing two skills to get away that is two actions that are sequenced Repetitive actions. example pushing button 1 and button 2 most likely not in a sequence depending on the actions effect. Now if I had to cancel the animation of a two actions it would be a sequence of LA,skill, block twice in a range of 1-2 seconds in a repetitive sequence x amount of time.
Reaction vs Repetitive Sequences are very different.
I fixed some Grammer issues...cuz I suck at English.
Sigh... okay im just going to simplify this man.
Having difficulty hitting 2 or 3 different keys in a second is not an issue regarding animation canceling nor does it compound any issue. That is simply the game. And those suffering from physical limitations have the unfortunate burden of figuring out ways to play around them. For this to even go anywhere, you need to accept the simple truth that animation canceling is not some elaborate multi button exercise in dexterity that would make *** umehara blush.
Its literallt just hitting 2 buttons every second.
So I don't think your understanding how difficult this can be. You line of thinking is push button A push button b.
In this case this for myself if it's in a slow interaction at 4-5 seconds I could do LA, Skill, BLK in rapid sequence probably, if this button I was hitting for the skill was exactly the same. But if I had LA,Skill, Block in a 2 second period rapidly between shift inputts in a nonset sequence it would be impossible. 3 actions occuring in sequence under 2 seconds while also doing everything else required to operate a toon. It's not like your just standing still doing this sequences. All allot of people want is to be able to reduce actions taken. For me personally if I could reduce the number of imputs per second I had to do by 1 I'd personally be ok but this may not be the case for others.
The issue this thought doesn’t take into account is the fundamental reason we have AC.
We need to be able to block when we need to block. The GCD ensures enough time has passed for the skill to fire which prevents exploiting the system. This game is not a simplistic design like WoW and FF as we require active defenses to survive on this game. Even more so in PvP than PvE.
Yes, that does require a higher skill level to do well on this game but that is probably part of the reason we choose ESO vs those overly simplistic MMORPG models like WoW and FF.
That's true. But the OP makes a note of that and provides a work around.
The developers ought to be able to add pauses to the code as it relates to abilities other than block and dodge that prevent subsequent abilities from being used until the animation completes. So the author's solution seems feasible to me.Edited by Jeremy on February 24, 2019 9:52PM1 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭You have made many arguments in your wall of text that fall flat, and I could argue all day against your arguments since your point of view is obviously biased.
Bottom line is, animation cancelling is not required to be successful in ESO.
Let me say that again.
NOT REQUIRED
Anyone who says otherwise is simply too lazy or to stubborn to ask for help and improve. Period.
Now that we got that out of the way,
There is one reason why I think animation cancelling in it's current form actually should be reworked.
MACRO slicing.
The vast majority of players, even those that do animation cancel light attacks don't ever cancel with block od dodge, and rarely cancel with barswap.
i actually i like barswap cancelling its part of many pve rotations. the thing is u have gcd on lightattack skill block. if i would use for example destruction staff lightattack --->impulse---->block (to cancel impuls). it wouldnt be any more effective then just weaving. so i absolutely feel comfortable doing pvp becouse i know its not effective.0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.
So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.
And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.
Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.
Let's address this.
A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.
A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.
A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.
A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.
A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.
All of these are very possible and have solutions.
And none of those disabilities serve as an inhibitor to animation canceling anymore than they do to the game in general.
Let examine how animation canceling works.
Animation canceling requires that a person be able to input information via button pres at a certain speed as minimum requirement. We know the GCD is 1 Second and that to weve or animation cancel you preform 1 - 2 other actions in a repeating sequence. This sequence would have to be fast enough to be lower then 2s but couldn't be faster then 1.001 seconds. This would have to occur in a repeating sequence 100s of times in a row with little to no error. Anyone with the stated issues would have to adapt to macros, alter keys bindings or just not do it.
There are numerous things in this game that require similar reaction times. Again physical disabilities impede ones ability to play the game, but this is not exclusive to animation canceling. There is nothing to solve.
Reaction time and sequenced actions are two very different things.
A reaction to say a incoming event only requires one or maybe two reactions. For example a NPC is doing a heavy attack, I can roll or block. That is 1 action.Note that this reaction can occur over more then 3 seconds. It typically does not occur in under 2 second intervials with multiple imputs within the 1-2 second range. In the case of a player two Actions are going to be preform thats a non sequenced repetitive reaction.
For example I am being attack by a melee player I am a ranged user with little to no armor. I know I need to get away. My kit allows 2 things that I am able to chose to perform, and 2 other actions that I don't chose. I chose which CC/Escape/deffsenive moves I have and the amount of key actions required to preform it. Then I have roll/block and of course runaway. So in that case of a CC that is one actions not a LA, skill, block sequence. In the case of a shield that is repetitive hitting the same button with no sequence such as LA,skill, block for canceling. Now in the case of a situation I am useing two skills to get away that is two actions that are sequenced Repetitive actions. example pushing button 1 and button 2 most likely not in a sequence depending on the actions effect. Now if I had to cancel the animation of a two actions it would be a sequence of LA,skill, block twice in a range of 1-2 seconds in a repetitive sequence x amount of time.
Reaction vs Repetitive Sequences are very different.
I fixed some Grammer issues...cuz I suck at English.
Sigh... okay im just going to simplify this man.
Having difficulty hitting 2 or 3 different keys in a second is not an issue regarding animation canceling nor does it compound any issue. That is simply the game. And those suffering from physical limitations have the unfortunate burden of figuring out ways to play around them. For this to even go anywhere, you need to accept the simple truth that animation canceling is not some elaborate multi button exercise in dexterity that would make *** umehara blush.
Its literallt just hitting 2 buttons every second.
So I don't think your understanding how difficult this can be. You line of thinking is push button A push button b.
In this case this for myself if it's in a slow interaction at 4-5 seconds I could do LA, Skill, BLK in rapid sequence probably, if this button I was hitting for the skill was exactly the same. But if I had LA,Skill, Block in a 2 second period rapidly between shift inputts in a nonset sequence it would be impossible. 3 actions occuring in sequence under 2 seconds while also doing everything else required to operate a toon. It's not like your just standing still doing this sequences. All allot of people want is to be able to reduce actions taken. For me personally if I could reduce the number of imputs per second I had to do by 1 I'd personally be ok but this may not be the case for others.
The issue this thought doesn’t take into account is the fundamental reason we have AC.
We need to be able to block when we need to block. The GCD ensures enough time has passed for the skill to fire which prevents exploiting the system. This game is not a simplistic design like WoW and FF as we require active defenses to survive on this game. Even more so in PvP than PvE.
Yes, that does require a higher skill level to do well on this game but that is probably part of the reason we choose ESO vs those overly simplistic MMORPG models like WoW and FF.
I agree, but you can reduce imputs by making it so light attacks happen at the same time as skills. As an option.0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.
The option is to not so it. You don't NEED to apart from the very endgame content.
Sure, people will have an advantage over you in PvP but you can still play it. So the option is to just not do it...
So I paid 200+ so far on a game that no where does it say those with difficulty doing x,y,x may not be able to some content. No where does it say that. It does say something about epilepsy.
as war as i know skills and lightattack has gcd. macros are very limited.
some people here must wear tinfoil hats.
Light attack are not on the CGD as far as I know
they are and they are checked server side otherwise ud see people speedhacking the *** out of this game. even if u put a sequence to cancel things into each other on a macro it wont fire of a lightattack after the skill cancel also wont fire of another skill becouse of gcd on skill so yeh putting multiple actions on ur mouse wont get u far.
this thread is just a huge waste of time.1 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.
The option is to not so it. You don't NEED to apart from the very endgame content.
Sure, people will have an advantage over you in PvP but you can still play it. So the option is to just not do it...
So I paid 200+ so far on a game that no where does it say those with difficulty doing x,y,x may not be able to some content. No where does it say that. It does say something about epilepsy.
as war as i know skills and lightattack has gcd. macros are very limited.
some people here must wear tinfoil hats.
Light attack are not on the CGD as far as I know
they are and they are checked server side otherwise ud see people speedhacking the *** out of this game. even if u put a sequence to cancel things into each other on a macro it wont fire of a lightattack after the skill cancel also wont fire of another skill becouse of gcd on skill so yeh putting multiple actions on ur mouse wont get u far.
this thread is just a huge waste of time.
Light attacks do not share GCDs with abilities. The reason LAs won’t go off until skill animations finish is because skill animations have priority over LAs3 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »If animation canceling was to be removed the combat would be so boring. The one thing this game excels at is the combat. Taking away AC would dumb the combat down a lot. No thanks.
It's now part of the game. Intended or not, it's here to stay. Why do people dislike it anyway? I don't see there being any legit reason other than they can't do it very well. It's not going away, so I suggest people practice and learn how to do it.
This line of thinking is flawd because your assuming it can be learned to be autonomous. For some that's not the case and would like an alternative inorder to adapt.
So because some people can't do something - nobody should be able to?
You can play the game without animation canceling. Will you be as good at it as others? No. But you don't NEED to do it.
And most people calling for it aren't disabled - just lazy or bad at the game.
I can't speak for the lazy and I don't, but I never said remove it I said add another option for those who can't. That was it.
The option is to not so it. You don't NEED to apart from the very endgame content.
Sure, people will have an advantage over you in PvP but you can still play it. So the option is to just not do it...
So I paid 200+ so far on a game that no where does it say those with difficulty doing x,y,x may not be able to some content. No where does it say that. It does say something about epilepsy.
as war as i know skills and lightattack has gcd. macros are very limited.
some people here must wear tinfoil hats.
Light attack are not on the CGD as far as I know
they are and they are checked server side otherwise ud see people speedhacking the *** out of this game. even if u put a sequence to cancel things into each other on a macro it wont fire of a lightattack after the skill cancel also wont fire of another skill becouse of gcd on skill so yeh putting multiple actions on ur mouse wont get u far.
this thread is just a huge waste of time.
Light attacks do not share GCDs with abilities. The reason LAs won’t go off until skill animations finish is because skill animations have priority over LAs
yes but LA share GCD with LA. its true that u can cancel LA to skill to block but then u have to wait untill u can do it again becouse LA and skill will be on GCD (on their own GCD)Edited by Noctus on February 24, 2019 10:03PM1 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭itscompton wrote: »The problem I have with Ani Cancelling is that it's not equally available to all the classes which makes for a huge imbalance in PvP. If I get into a fight with a "skilled" Sorc or NB on my Templar they are going to be able to ani cancel attacks so that I'm getting hit with 10-15K a second yet because Templars have so many primary damage skills with cast times that can't be ani cancelled I have no way to keep up in a slug out and the fight turns into me spamming HoD until I run out of Magica and die. And if the Sorc or NB can manage to CC you for anything more than 1 second they can just basically blow you up before you can even react.
That’s not animation canceling, the damage gets applied before the animation anyway. Templar skills just have cast times that make them not so fun on non-bruiser builds, as opposed to the instant cast abilities on other classes.
Pretty sure that's the very definition of Ani Cancelling, you hit SA and then LA right after and the damage from SA applies even though the LA cuts off the animation of the SA.Edited by itscompton on February 24, 2019 10:07PM0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »itscompton wrote: »The problem I have with Ani Cancelling is that it's not equally available to all the classes which makes for a huge imbalance in PvP. If I get into a fight with a "skilled" Sorc or NB on my Templar they are going to be able to ani cancel attacks so that I'm getting hit with 10-15K a second yet because Templars have so many primary damage skills with cast times that can't be ani cancelled I have no way to keep up in a slug out and the fight turns into me spamming HoD until I run out of Magica and die. And if the Sorc or NB can manage to CC you for anything more than 1 second they can just basically blow you up before you can even react.
That’s not animation canceling, the damage gets applied before the animation anyway. Templar skills just have cast times that make them not so fun on non-bruiser builds, as opposed to the instant cast abilities on other classes.itscompton wrote: »The problem I have with Ani Cancelling is that it's not equally available to all the classes which makes for a huge imbalance in PvP. If I get into a fight with a "skilled" Sorc or NB on my Templar they are going to be able to ani cancel attacks so that I'm getting hit with 10-15K a second yet because Templars have so many primary damage skills with cast times that can't be ani cancelled I have no way to keep up in a slug out and the fight turns into me spamming HoD until I run out of Magica and die. And if the Sorc or NB can manage to CC you for anything more than 1 second they can just basically blow you up before you can even react.
That’s not animation canceling, the damage gets applied before the animation anyway. Templar skills just have cast times that make them not so fun on non-bruiser builds, as opposed to the instant cast abilities on other classes.
Pretty sure that's the very definition of Ani Cancelling, you hit SA and then LA right after and the damage from SA applies even though the LA cuts off the animation of the SA.
No. You cannot overwrite Surpirse Attack with a LA because LAs do not have priority over abilities. You can use a LA then SA, but the reverse is untrue. Templars can actually do the same with a LA into jabs, but jabs is a channel, so its animation will exceed the GCD and you will have some downtime where another class will not even if both of you are weaving LAs before abilitiesEdited by Jhalin on February 24, 2019 10:08PM2