Because it would be an improvement, for reasons listed painstakingly above. You know what also has been in the game for years, and ZOS didn't make any attempts to change? Traits on gear being set in stone. Until we got CWC. And it changed. And now the game is better. Same principle.

Huh? You are talking about a simple request that was likely planned to be in the game long before CWC was released (it is good business for ZOS to trickle in features rather than put everything in at once), comparing it with changing a fundamental principle of combat coding.

How do you propose it would be changed? Give all insta-cast skills a short cast time? That would screw up things even more for people with bad ping (since they couldn´t react), it would not make sense when it comes to animations (since some animations have a seemingly longer travel time than others), if you made the cast times different to match the animation it would unbalance things (with short cast times being preferred), it wouldn´t help a bit in Vivec PvP (because of the latency issues and responsiveness issues already present there).

Weaving is good. The changes to light and heavy attacks are good. Why? Because they make light and heavy attacks relevant. If you didn´t have that, it would be 'cost reduction, spamskill spam spam spam spam'.

Lastly (to the people I´ve seen mention it as such), animation cancelling is not a 'bug'. It is an in-built consequence of the game code. It is present in lots of games including Starcraft 2, which somehow still manages to be a competitive game.

Gilvoth wrote: »

Bonusfeatures75 wrote: »

Why do you want to dumb the game down? Animation canceling adds another layer of skill, something most MMO’s are really missing. How about people get good and learn how to do it?

Yes, that would require the big scary E word- Effort

i can promise, and assure you that the amount of people who DO NOT know how to and cannot animation cancel is about 1% of ALL of eso community.
everyone animation cancels
we all do it.
it is even taught in the game by the devs.

what people are angry about is the over use of it when lagg and macros are involved that create and allow cheats to exist.
i have a list of people who do it regularly, i report them when i see them.
its allways the same thing, they hit people with 5 to 8 skills or light attacks in less then 1 second, its allways the same guys, i never see other people doing it.

in addition to that, i see those same guys at resources take out those guards on the flags instantly.
you see the guard fall and all you hear is one hit.
it's not "skill"

This is statitical % can't even be close to true. For DPS PvE animation canceling is required to achieve community based DPS requirements for end game raids. I am a part who can't animation cancel due to a metal issue which makes it nearly impossible for me to do fast pase repeating patters due to a lack of motor control. No amount of practice will fix this for me and people like me and my issue is very common. Now their are different degrees to which people are effected. At the end of the day this actually locks people out of content they pay for. There is a better way to do it that allows for skill and Ease of access for everyone.

mandricus wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.

So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.

So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.

Have you considered that ZOS can't please everyone?

No, not trying to be inconsiderate here. Just want to keep a clear eye on the practicalities involved. Pragmatically speaking, ZOS cannot please everyone and fixing animation canceling/combat animations to address the problem some players have is going to cost time and $$$. If ZOS deems it not worth spending the time and $$$ to please the people who would benefit from removing animation canceling or streamlining combat animations, they won't do it. Those people will remain out in the cold.

It sucks for those players. Its also business. You pick and choose what you spend your time and $$$ on. If its not worth the return, you don't do it, even if it would benefit some of your customers. If over all the entire game population, ZOS makes more money under the status quo or the cost in time and $$$ to change is prohibitive given the expected return, its not going to change even though some players would benefit.

We don't know what it would cost in terms of time and $$$ for ZOS to make the changes this thread is asking for. We don't know if it would be worth the return on their investment. We don't even know for sure that they can.

We do know that they haven't done it.

This is becoming downright exhausting. OP has demonstrated only that they are completely unqualified to even discuss the matter.

@sabbathius

First off, despite what the population would try and have you believe, animation canceling in the form of cutting off recovery animations does absolutely nothing for performance. It does not increase dps, or the frequency of which you can fire off skills and i find it telling that in your entire post you speak nothing of the GCD and how (not) coincidentally, recovery animations are specifically developed to last as long as the GCD. Block canceling visually looks like you are getting a fired effect sooner but on the receivers end it is not different.

Suggesting that abilities resolve at the end of an animation is hysterical. Let me explain how instant cast abilities work, why they are instant, and there is not designed reaction time to them. An instant cast ability ie an ability that has no cast or channel time, will resolve instantly once the criteria is met to use the skill (recipient in range, resource available, not stunned, GCD is up). Block canceling an instant cast ability like suprise attack serves absolutely no purpose since it resolves at the moment you press the skill as is designed. There is no reaction to that. The relationshipsl betwen skill user and target receiving it is over, the server handles the rest and calculates the outcome. There was nothing visually for the person on the receiving end to react to. Understand the distinction between anticipation and reaction, you can anticipate an isntant cast abiliy isncoming and roll dodge but you can not react to an isntant cast ability after it has already resolved. Any follow through animation that plays out over the course of the GCD is completely inconsequential.

If you were to tie the resolution point of any skill to the tail end of its recovery animation, combat would feel abysmal and that has nothing to do with gameplay speed. It would feel disjointed cumbersome, imagine succeeding in connecting an uppercut on a target but the damage and stun calculation only comes out once your character is completely reeled back from the 2her weight. So then what? Fast forward the animation so the entire visual effect (the wind up and the reel back) all plays out over the course of the uppercuts intial cast time? This in itself is a poor example i would otherwise never make since hard cast abilities are, you guessed it, designed to encompass the GCD. When you start an uppercut, the GCD triggeres immediately, and by the time the ability reaches its complete cast, the GCD is up you are free to act again, this is why back to back uppercut use looks like you are jackhammering it.

And doing this for instant cast abilities? God no. Look at suprise attack again, you would have the damage register on the target only after your swing reaches its apex? Okay so then how would you animate that to fit within a fraction of a second? I mean you would have to after all because its an instant cast ability so it MUST resolve instantly while the GCD refreshes. Dont nake it instant you say? Rebalance the cost and damage you say? Okay lets think about that for a moment. Tie the damage to the end of the animation, have said animation play out in normal time, you press the skill, the GCD initiates, half way through the GCD, your character is not quite done with the recovery animation swing and you see a snipe coming your way and you hit block. Despite having met the critieria set forth by the game (in range to use suprise attack, had resource) you get no yeild because you reacted to an outside emergency. That is an absolutely terrible combat system. And youbare essentially advocating that everything be converted to hard cast skills.

Animation canceling is not a bug, it is not an exploit it is not a problem the devs couldnt figure out so they just embraced it, that is abject nonsense. Cancelling the recovery animation of abilities that are instant is purely a result of a combat system that was intentionally desgined to reward reaction and not to arbitrarily punish players by disallowing them the freedom to block or roll or otherwise defend themselves during the GCD during which they are prohibited from using another skill anyways. It doesnt increase your dps (weaving light attacks is not ACing), it doesnt let you fire off skills faster than otherwise allowed, and it does not allow you to circumvent the GCD limitation for ability use frequency.

Bonusfeatures75 wrote: »

Why do you want to dumb the game down? Animation canceling adds another layer of skill, something most MMO’s are really missing. How about people get good and learn how to do it?

Yes, that would require the big scary E word- Effort

Agree with you. Its not like its witchcraft or something like that. I know people having struggle pressing two buttons together..

@VaranisArano

Alright let's look at this statement. A person in my situation cant perform to the expectation of ZoS or the community. So let's establish some a basic rule set of thing no one wants to see.

1. Automations of the light attack and heavy attacks.
2. Being unable to block in a emergency situation.
3. Takeing away "skillful play"
4. Removing the interesting combat of ESO.

These above things are things no one wants, even myself.

Let's address each point.

Light and heavy attack automation is a no go for myself and light attack waving is something people likes myself find very difficult to do.

Solution A to this would be making sure animation up to a certain point are forced to go off. This would slow animations down for people like us but still keep the skillful play. This would cost money and time for ZoS it's a down side.

Solution B is adaptive technologies to help animate what other does can do easily. I.E Mouse/Keyboard Macro to launch a light attack a Skill and a Block within a given range of seconds that would be provided by ZoS. This would not change the combat of ESO, ZoS has to put almost no rescources in to deal with it. Down side is PvP and people will try to take advantage of the situation.

Solution C would adapt animation to happen in a series of events by up to 3 actions. I don't like this one at all. Myself its way to static.

Solution D At the activation of a Skill a light attack is automatically initiated as part of the skill. The animation does not need to go off the damage just needs to accompany the skills attack and could be turned off in the ESO settings. This would not remove light attacks from the game only assist those who can't weave correctly or who don't like the whole animation canceling thing. Down side is ZoS has to place rescources into this, but is dose develop a non-ToS violating way to solve the problem.

There are solutions they are just hard.

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

@VaranisArano

Alright let's look at this statement. A person in my situation cant perform to the expectation of ZoS or the community. So let's establish some a basic rule set of thing no one wants to see.

1. Automations of the light attack and heavy attacks.
2. Being unable to block in a emergency situation.
3. Takeing away "skillful play"
4. Removing the interesting combat of ESO.

These above things are things no one wants, even myself.

Let's address each point.

Light and heavy attack automation is a no go for myself and light attack waving is something people likes myself find very difficult to do.

Solution A to this would be making sure animation up to a certain point are forced to go off. This would slow animations down for people like us but still keep the skillful play. This would cost money and time for ZoS it's a down side.

Solution B is adaptive technologies to help animate what other does can do easily. I.E Mouse/Keyboard Macro to launch a light attack a Skill and a Block within a given range of seconds that would be provided by ZoS.

Solution C would adapt animation to happen in a series of events by up to 3 actions. I don't like this one at all. Myself its way to static.

There are solutions they are just hard.

You forgot solution D, find a new game that you can play or even solution E, stick to content that you can complete without weaving. There are solutions where the only thing that needs to change is you.

exeeter702 wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.

So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.

And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.

Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.

Let's address this.

A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.

A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.

A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.

A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.

A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.

All of these are very possible and have solutions.

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.

So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.

And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.

Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.

Let's address this.

A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.

A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.

A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.

A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.

A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.

All of these are very possible and have solutions.

And none of those disabilities serve as an inhibitor to animation canceling anymore than they do to the game in general.

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

@VaranisArano

Alright let's look at this statement. A person in my situation cant perform to the expectation of ZoS or the community. So let's establish some a basic rule set of thing no one wants to see.

1. Automations of the light attack and heavy attacks.
2. Being unable to block in a emergency situation.
3. Takeing away "skillful play"
4. Removing the interesting combat of ESO.

These above things are things no one wants, even myself.

Let's address each point.

Light and heavy attack automation is a no go for myself and light attack waving is something people likes myself find very difficult to do.

Solution A to this would be making sure animation up to a certain point are forced to go off. This would slow animations down for people like us but still keep the skillful play. This would cost money and time for ZoS it's a down side.

Solution B is adaptive technologies to help animate what other does can do easily. I.E Mouse/Keyboard Macro to launch a light attack a Skill and a Block within a given range of seconds that would be provided by ZoS. This would not change the combat of ESO, ZoS has to put almost no rescources in to deal with it. Down side is PvP and people will try to take advantage of the situation.

Solution C would adapt animation to happen in a series of events by up to 3 actions. I don't like this one at all. Myself its way to static.

Solution D At the activation of a Skill a light attack is automatically initiated as part of the skill. The animation does not need to go off the damage just needs to accompany the skills attack and could be turned off in the ESO settings. This would not remove light attacks from the game only assist those who can't weave correctly or who don't like the whole animation canceling thing. Down side is ZoS has to place rescources into this, but is dose develop a non-ToS violating way to solve the problem.

There are solutions they are just hard.

Yep. All of those are potential solutions that ZOS could choose to implement if they deem it worth the time and $$$ to do so.

They might choose to make those changes, deeming it worth the time, effort, and $$$ to benefit some players who struggle under the status quo.

They might choose not to spend the time, effort, and $$$ to change the status quo, even though some players struggle, deeming it not worth the return on their investment.

We don't know. That's the type of future development that's in ZOS' hands.

We do know that ZOS hasn't done it. Instead, they've continued to make long animations exceeding the GCD that can be canceled and have chosen to buff light attack damage and encourage weaving.

My personal opinion is that bringing up pain points like this is worthwhile, but ultimately whether or not they get addressed comes down to whether or not its worth the time, effort, and $$$ for ZOS to change. ZOS will want a return on their investment. And I don't have the data to talk about how substantial that investment of time, effort, or $$$ would be, but I expect that ZOS has certainly done the math - and if its favorable, we'll see changes in future updates. If its not favorable, we won't.

exeeter702 wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

Animation canceling is what makes this game so interesting. If you are not able to practice it properly it's your problem, not the game's fault. Stop complaining about the real, true very interesting mechanic this game has.

So basically **** the people who can't do it due to something they can't help. Amazing solution.

And herein lies the rabbit hole on these forums with "animation canceling" You have one camp that has convinced themselevs that animation canceling is some advanced excution technique that heightens the gameplay system and creates a high skill ceiling (it is not and it does not) and another camp that takes this false belief and automatically takes the stance against it because of some kind of limitations they have when in reality there is no advanced physical demand to begin with.

Misinformation spirials this entire subject and it will never end.

Let's address this.

A person who is missing fingers, has nerve damage in certain areas of the hand, has had a brain aneurysm or was born with a mental inability to coordinate motor control of their extremities.

A person who is missing fingers is missing the extremities to perform the action.

A person with nerve damage to the hand would be unable manipulate the extremities in a way that could preform fast, accurate and sequenced actions repetitively.

A person who has had a brain aneurysm may that has not immobilized an extremities complete but limmited range of motion these people wouldn't be able to so perform because of the lack adapt tools or ToS requirements.

A person with ADD/ADHD or similar conditions who has motor coordination, memory recall and memory loss over the short term would not be able to coordinate, remember or even input the correct sequence with equal error to a average player.

All of these are very possible and have solutions.

And none of those disabilities serve as an inhibitor to animation canceling anymore than they do to the game in general.

Let examine how animation canceling works.

Animation canceling requires that a person be able to input information via button pres at a certain speed as minimum requirement. We know the GCD is 1 Second and that to weve or animation cancel you preform 1 - 2 other actions in a repeating sequence. This sequence would have to be fast enough to be lower then 2s but couldn't be faster then 1.001 seconds. This would have to occur in a repeating sequence 100s of times in a row with little to no error. Anyone with the stated issues would have to adapt to macros, alter keys bindings or just not do it.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS has already admitted they can't fix it and therefore not going to spend time on trying to do so. But they do have ways to mitigate the damage difference is does give in the game.

The main thing ZOS should be doing is changing the animations so that they match the cast time and global cool down. I think this would help to mitigate a bit of the issue. I don't know how many times with this damn lag I've been stuck in an animation and unable to do anything, even on an instant skill, or unable to swap bars to cancel a skill, unable to even use simple light or heavy attacks. It's annoying.

They can mitigate the damage creep animation cancelling allows for by putting a cap on max achievable dps in the game and allowing small increments of power creep to continue, so that those players who are unable to do content due to being unable to animation cancel, can at least in a year or two, be able to get enough dps to do said content. This would allow the end game raiders and more elite players to still be able to do the content first, and keep their animation cancelling, but it prevents the gap from getting any further.

Zos has never admitted to any such thing. The wrobel clip says nothing of the sort and has been twisted over the years.

Animations already match the GCD, when the GCD redreshes, your character has returned to a nuetral state.

Getting stuck in an animation has nothing to do with "animation canceling".

There is no damage creep resulting from canceling the recovery animations of skills. And no amount of canceling is going to help you participate in any particular content since animation canceling does not increase dps. And attack weaving is not animation canceling but rather it is simply an active take on the traditional white or auto attacks from other mmos.