Do you think animation cancelling should be part of the game?

Kane_Hart · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

Animation cancelling is annoying. I don't mind faster pace but I don't like being rewarded for bad programming.

Jayman1000 · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Hey,
I noticed that ppl are apparently still against animation cancelling. This really surprises me, since the system has been in the game for years now. And it's really easy to learn (especially LA weaves and even bash cancelling isn't very hard).

So yeah just curious why people are still opposed to anim cancelling and how many there are who share that opinion.

Personally I support cancelling ofc and since the "macro" argument is hilarious and can easily be debunked, I'd really like to hear a valid reason against animation cancelling.

That is not a very good survey. I dont want animation cancellation to be part of the game because it feels weird and non believable. You are hard cutting of the animation, it feels to artificial and I don't like to play like that. I know I will be more effecient by doing it but I quite frankly HATE it. But I do not consider it an exploit, by definition it is not exploiting and claiming it can only be done through macros is ridiculous.

Please make better surveys in the future.

Sharee · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

CyrusArya wrote: »

For the record this entire discussion is pointless because ZOS has already done a pass on cancelling and given the mechanic their blessing. Learn to either play the game properly, or refuse to do so and accept lower performance.

Oh really.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to update everyone on where we are at with the animation prioritization efforts going on right now. At its core, the goal for the change was to make it clear which attacks players were using, while preserving the responsiveness of combat. We’ve made great strides towards this, but there are still a number of cases where things just don’t look or feel right (blocking as an example). As such, we’re going to be rolling back this change in next week's PTS patch (2.3.4) and will not be taking it to the Live megaservers.

We will continue to iterate on the system internally and will roll out the changes when they are ready.

Czirne · February 2019

Yes. As animation cancelling requires skill and rewards you with higher dps.

Sharee wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

For the record this entire discussion is pointless because ZOS has already done a pass on cancelling and given the mechanic their blessing. Learn to either play the game properly, or refuse to do so and accept lower performance.

Oh really.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to update everyone on where we are at with the animation prioritization efforts going on right now. At its core, the goal for the change was to make it clear which attacks players were using, while preserving the responsiveness of combat. We’ve made great strides towards this, but there are still a number of cases where things just don’t look or feel right (blocking as an example). As such, we’re going to be rolling back this change in next week's PTS patch (2.3.4) and will not be taking it to the Live megaservers.

We will continue to iterate on the system internally and will roll out the changes when they are ready.

2.3.4? what is that, early 2016?

Czirne · February 2019

Yes. As animation cancelling requires skill and rewards you with higher dps.

In current state of pvp you wont be able to kill slightly tankier players or magicka templars without animation canceling.

When i started playing the game back in the day, i was againts AC as well, because it looked clunky. Very soon i reliaze it adds another layer to combat and increases the skill ceiling for players. AC is amazing.

Sharee · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

Czirne wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

For the record this entire discussion is pointless because ZOS has already done a pass on cancelling and given the mechanic their blessing. Learn to either play the game properly, or refuse to do so and accept lower performance.

Oh really.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to update everyone on where we are at with the animation prioritization efforts going on right now. At its core, the goal for the change was to make it clear which attacks players were using, while preserving the responsiveness of combat. We’ve made great strides towards this, but there are still a number of cases where things just don’t look or feel right (blocking as an example). As such, we’re going to be rolling back this change in next week's PTS patch (2.3.4) and will not be taking it to the Live megaservers.

We will continue to iterate on the system internally and will roll out the changes when they are ready.

2.3.4? what is that, early 2016?

Forum: "Do not discuss this, nothing will change, ZOS said so".
ZOS: "This is on a back burner because noone is discussing it so it probably isnt important to the players"

Self-fulfilling prophecy at it's best.

Nyladreas · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

I only picked no, not because I think it's cheating, but because it doesn't ever properly work for anyone who doesn't live close enough to the server to have a decent latency.

I travel the world frequently because of my job. I've been all over Europe, in US and Canada, Australia and Kiwiland, China, Thailand, Japan and Korea.

And I can tell you, IT DOES MATTER WHERE YOU PLAY FROM. Germany gives you the best smoothest reaction and performance on EU and I could do things I haven't thought possible before, than while playing from let's say Slovakia. That's ridiculous.

It shouldn't be in the game if it's not fair to people just cause of where they live.

Also, it's not fair to people with handicaps either. They already have to try harder irl, why limit them in a game where they can escape.

Rungar · February 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

I only picked no, not because I think it's cheating, but because it doesn't ever properly work for anyone who doesn't live close enough to the server to have a decent latency.

I travel the world frequently because of my job. I've been all over Europe, in US and Canada, Australia and Kiwiland, China, Thailand, Japan and Korea.

And I can tell you, IT DOES MATTER WHERE YOU PLAY FROM. Germany gives you the best smoothest reaction and performance on EU and I could do things I haven't thought possible before, than while playing from let's say Slovakia. That's ridiculous.

It shouldn't be in the game if it's not fair to people just cause of where they live.

Also, it's not fair to people with handicaps either. They already have to try harder irl, why limit them in a game where they can escape.

Eso was doa until they realized that they had to make the game accessible. One Tamriel proved this to be true and its sad to see that they are back to their old tricks making the game inaccessible again by reinforcing the light weaving idea and other unpopular ideas like one shot mechanics.

Mettaricana · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

Just speed up the skil animations to make the cancelling look more natural rather than a meth addict tweaking between skills

SilverPaws · February 2019

Yes. As animation cancelling requires skill and rewards you with higher dps.

It's part of game already. Devs stated that too.

Pastas · February 2019

Yes. As animation cancelling requires skill and rewards you with higher dps.

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Tbh it was a bug which they failed to fix and this is the main reason of power creep.

Nope Champion Points is the main reason of power creep

Linaleah · February 2019

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

@Linaleah I think more people ani-cancel and just don't realize it. It's just an extension of weaving in a light attack while the gcd is running. I'd bet that in the middle of a battle folks are clicking and button-pressing fast enough that they cancel several of their light attack animations. Light attacks are built they way they are so you can still do damage while skills are on cool down.

On top of that, as I pointed out earlier, would you like to be stuck in an animation when you need to block or roll? I bet this is even more common than la cancelling and people don't know they're doing it.

there is a difference between being able to cancel an action and clipping animations while NOT canceling an action. every time I argue with people, they bring up ability to roll or dodge. but that's the thing - you do not need to animation cancel to roll, dodge, block, interrupt. you should should be canceling entire ability on a fly. right now, you can both dodge AND get an attack off, because you are clipping animations. I prefer it when you have to make a choice. do you get ability off and then dodge, risking death. or do you dodge first and then recast ability?

equating animation clipping to dodging/blocking etc is a false equivalency and I'm very VERY tired of it. not asking for inability to cancel abilities to do other actions as needed. asking that if you do chose to continue casting an ability - animation should match its cast time.

I'm sure some people accidentaly animation cancel other then to dodge/block/etc heck everyonce in a while the stars line up and even i manage to clip a few light attacks here and there. but for a good chunk of people this is NOT something that we can do RELIABLY. and right now combat balancing revolves around reliable animation canceling which is as i said - a big contributor to current dps gap.

Jeremy · February 2019

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Hey,
I noticed that ppl are apparently still against animation cancelling. This really surprises me, since the system has been in the game for years now. And it's really easy to learn (especially LA weaves and even bash cancelling isn't very hard).

So yeah just curious why people are still opposed to anim cancelling and how many there are who share that opinion.

Personally I support cancelling ofc and since the "macro" argument is hilarious and can easily be debunked, I'd really like to hear a valid reason against animation cancelling.

The way you worded the poll was so obviously bias I'm not going to vote.

Animation canceling - that is to say using other abilities to cancel animations so as to increase dps - isn't a technique I'm thrilled with. It was never intended - and was basically just a bug the developers couldn't fix without doing away with reactive blocking and dodging so they decided to run with it. It also just looks silly. So if I had to pick, I'd say the game would be better off without it.

Royaji · February 2019

Linaleah wrote: »

equating animation clipping to dodging/blocking etc is a false equivalency and I'm very VERY tired of it. not asking for inability to cancel abilities to do other actions as needed. asking that if you do chose to continue casting an ability - animation should match its cast time.

Majority of abilities in the game have no cast time, they are instant. And if you take a look at the usage of abilites, the cast time ones (like Dizzying Swing, Snipe or hard casted Crystal Frags) are usually considered to be the worst kind. Putting a cast time equal to animation time on each ability is pretty much an equivalent of making an entirely different game.

Linaleah · February 2019

idk wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I don't like animation cancelling being part of the game myself.

I don't know if the game will get clunky if it was removed, because you cannot test it.

We do know the issues that would occur.

ESO requires active defense by everyone from tanks to dps to healers. Unlike games such as WoW, FF and SWTOR that have passives defenses and shielding we must be able to block and dodge any moment and not have a skill in the middle of firing get in the way.

For every skill there is a GCD that is required for the skill to be fired. For skills with a cast time this goes a little further and using fragments as an example it makes the issue very clear.

When casting frags if someone blocks before the required time the skill will not fire. If AC was not possible it would mean that anyone casting frags would locked out reacting to an immediate thread that required them to block or dodge if they wanted to survive. This would include many skills like 2H uppercut and more would put the player at risk if they used it.

The only real with AC is that some do not understand that the animation has nothing to do with the time required for a skill to fire and that every skill has a required time that must pass for it to fire. For most it is the GCD>

sigh. NO. just like in games like WoW, FF and swtor and guess what GW2 and Neverwinter (of the games that i personaly played that have more active combat, closer to what ESO has than first 3 on a list), you'd be able to block on the fly, your frags would just be completely canceled and NOT fire. you'd have to make a choice between block and frags.

this false equivalency is getting so... darn... OLD.

tinythinker · February 2019

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Hey,
I noticed that ppl are apparently still against animation cancelling. This really surprises me, since the system has been in the game for years now. And it's really easy to learn (especially LA weaves and even bash cancelling isn't very hard).

So yeah just curious why people are still opposed to anim cancelling and how many there are who share that opinion.

Personally I support cancelling ofc and since the "macro" argument is hilarious and can easily be debunked, I'd really like to hear a valid reason against animation cancelling.

Focusing on/taking the poll question seriously, and ignoring the arguing:

Animation canceling (including light attack weaving) is *not* easy for everyone to learn or to do nor do all people who can do it well find it fun. If someone tries to argue the point, they are basically saying "because I and other people I know find it fun and easy it must be true for everyone else" which invalidates their position by disregarding other peope's experiences.

However, just because some people suck at it doesn't mean ZOS should or must get rid of it.

It does mean that, in my personal opinion, there should always be options for those who are bad at it or who don't enjoy it/find it obnoxious to complete all content successfully and competently without it. (And there are such options.) Let those who can do it and who like it continue to enjoy it. As long as the combat devs don't use animation canceling and rapid light attack weaving as a central default that all combat systems and abilities are built around, it doesn't bother me if someone else gets more out of their combat or enjoys rotation min-maxing. (And because it always comes up, in PvP if some forms of canceling get way out of hand, the devs can make a judgment call on what is best for the game based on their testing and tracking on a case by case basis like they always have.)

Linaleah · February 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

equating animation clipping to dodging/blocking etc is a false equivalency and I'm very VERY tired of it. not asking for inability to cancel abilities to do other actions as needed. asking that if you do chose to continue casting an ability - animation should match its cast time.

Majority of abilities in the game have no cast time, they are instant. And if you take a look at the usage of abilites, the cast time ones (like Dizzying Swing, Snipe or hard casted Crystal Frags) are usually considered to be the worst kind. Putting a cast time equal to animation time on each ability is pretty much an equivalent of making an entirely different game.

then adopt the gosh darn animations to the actual cast times so that THEY MATCH. a well as adjust cast time abilities so that they are STILL desirable to use. and that still doesn't address the fact that people actively clip light attacks to speed up and therefore increase their output, that you can break into a dodge/block and STILL get full ability off, even if its in theory comes with a cast time.

well some people can, and some people cannot and that's why you have ridiculous performance gaps between players

Arzurag · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

voted no but for another reason.
cancelling animations is fine as long as the cancelled abilitiy is what´s been cancelled and not just the animation.
I know, it´s called animation-cancelling but using two abilities consecutively and the first one gets its animation cancelled whilst the effect is fully applied is bad design.
I don´t think that´s intended except it has been stated in the abilitiy´s description or the devs said that´s fine.

Royaji · February 2019

Linaleah wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

equating animation clipping to dodging/blocking etc is a false equivalency and I'm very VERY tired of it. not asking for inability to cancel abilities to do other actions as needed. asking that if you do chose to continue casting an ability - animation should match its cast time.

Majority of abilities in the game have no cast time, they are instant. And if you take a look at the usage of abilites, the cast time ones (like Dizzying Swing, Snipe or hard casted Crystal Frags) are usually considered to be the worst kind. Putting a cast time equal to animation time on each ability is pretty much an equivalent of making an entirely different game.

then adopt the gosh darn animations to the actual cast times so that THEY MATCH. a well as adjust cast time abilities so that they are STILL desirable to use. and that still doesn't address the fact that people actively clip light attacks to speed up and therefore increase their output, that you can break into a dodge/block and STILL get full ability off, even if its in theory comes with a cast time.

well some people can, and some people cannot and that's why you have ridiculous performance gaps between players

You do understand that a cast time for an instant ability is, well, instant. Which pretty much means skills with no animations at all. There are a couple of offenders that looks especially bad (looking at you, Endless Hail) but the whole point of ESO was combat with no cooldowns and minimal cast times and I do not think that making every ability have a cast time is a viable option. They can look a bit better with shorter and smoother animations though but is it worth it for ZOS? Don't think so.

And please, stop claiming that you can animation cancel abilites with cast time. You can't. There is no such thing as animation cancelled Dizzying Swing. That is not possible. Abilites with actual cast time work exactly as you describe, you can interrupt the cast and perform a defensive action. Only instant abilites can be cancelled because as the name implies, they are instant. They are done before the animation even starts playing. Regardless if you roll dodge after them or not.

Lord_Wrath · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

Im just here to randomly vote for one of two childish responses. Please, practice my mcdoubles.

Shantu · February 2019

Not for it or against it. It's simply here to stay so if you want to maximize dps, you need to adapt. Once you learn how to do it effectively in a rotation, it's not a big deal.

However, it still begs the question of why have a skill animation at all if you allow players to cancel it.

Elsonso · February 2019

Yes. As animation cancelling requires skill and rewards you with higher dps.

It is a conditional YES. They need to come up with a way to teach it to new players so that they know about it. My guess is that most players are unaware that it exists. If they can't teach it, then maybe they should remove it.

JackDaniell · February 2019

Yes. As animation cancelling requires skill and rewards you with higher dps.

Honestly without AC combat almost goes from action to turn based.

CyrusArya · February 2019

Yes. As animation cancelling requires skill and rewards you with higher dps.

Sharee wrote: »

Oh really.

Yes really. The context of that post was how they completely messed up the fluidity of gameplay at one stage of the pts and reversed a specific action, only to get things right later on in the patch. As in stuff literally wasn’t cast when block canceled and it completely ruined the flow of combat. The end result of the pts was that they reached a point that both met their stated goals (of making all actions visible) while maintaining the pace of combat at a satisfactory level for players.

Which is why they haven’t revisited the issue. Because it has been dealt with.

zaria · February 2019

Linaleah wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

equating animation clipping to dodging/blocking etc is a false equivalency and I'm very VERY tired of it. not asking for inability to cancel abilities to do other actions as needed. asking that if you do chose to continue casting an ability - animation should match its cast time.

Majority of abilities in the game have no cast time, they are instant. And if you take a look at the usage of abilites, the cast time ones (like Dizzying Swing, Snipe or hard casted Crystal Frags) are usually considered to be the worst kind. Putting a cast time equal to animation time on each ability is pretty much an equivalent of making an entirely different game.

then adopt the gosh darn animations to the actual cast times so that THEY MATCH. a well as adjust cast time abilities so that they are STILL desirable to use. and that still doesn't address the fact that people actively clip light attacks to speed up and therefore increase their output, that you can break into a dodge/block and STILL get full ability off, even if its in theory comes with a cast time.

well some people can, and some people cannot and that's why you have ridiculous performance gaps between players

For damage skills it would not have an huge impact except making bar swap more expensive.

Cast time on BOL or other emergency heals, healing spring and combat prayers is included here will make healing far harder, same with cast time on shields who was an option instead of limiting them to 40% of health.
Same for tanks who can not cast while blocking, ranged interrupts would be slow.

Now PvP would has to be redone from the ground up as you can interrupt all casts with bash.

Sharee · February 2019

No. It's exploiting and can only be done with the help of macros.

[nevermind]

ZOS_JesC · February 2019

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