Silver_Strider wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

my main has always been a nord so I won’t be race changing and yes argonians recieved a somewhat heavy handed nerf but will still perform as well as imperial and nord tanks it all in how you build ur character

"How you build your Character"
Tank role - Alkosh/Ebon/Torugs/Powerful Assault/Akaviri Dragonguard

Not really much room for building a character, is there?

Plague doctor/Green Pact/Shalk exoskeleton/ the list can go on you listed several sets all are decent and give group buffs but are not the only sets a tank can use. Plenty of room if you don’t narrow ur field of view there are hundreds of sets in game so thousands of possible combinations can be made for a tank. You focus on one part of what I stated and didn’t mention that I do agree to a point that argonians recieved a heavy handed nerf. What do you do tho any changes to argonian are eiether gonna be worse or over powered. But as is argonian May not be absolutely hands down BiS but are still competitive. Back to sets tho you are only limited by your own thoughts

There really isn't an set that a Tank would wear that would give an Argonian an edge over Nord or Imperial. If I'm building a health Tank with Plague Doctor and Ebon, Imperial is better as it has more health. If I'm building for Ultimate Regen with Akaviri and Shalks, Nord is better. If I'm building for any form of damage, Imperial will do more just based on the fact they have more resources.

There is virtually NOTHING an Argonian tank can effectively build for and not be totally overshadowed by Nord or Imperial unless it's Healbot Tanking and that's only really useful for Dungeons and PvP. It's depressing.

People claim that any sort of buff for Argonian would make them OP, and totally ignore the fact that Imperial is actually lowkey OP right now, since its sustain is actually BETTER than an Argonians and has more resources for more damage overall.

Quite curious how you came up with the conclusion that Imperial sustain is better than Argonian?

A racial passive which offers group utility (additional Warhorn uptime) is rather tempting.

IronWooshu wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

my main has always been a nord so I won’t be race changing and yes argonians recieved a somewhat heavy handed nerf but will still perform as well as imperial and nord tanks it all in how you build ur character

"How you build your Character"
Tank role - Alkosh/Ebon/Torugs/Powerful Assault/Akaviri Dragonguard

Not really much room for building a character, is there?

Plague doctor/Green Pact/Shalk exoskeleton/ the list can go on you listed several sets all are decent and give group buffs but are not the only sets a tank can use. Plenty of room if you don’t narrow ur field of view there are hundreds of sets in game so thousands of possible combinations can be made for a tank. You focus on one part of what I stated and didn’t mention that I do agree to a point that argonians recieved a heavy handed nerf. What do you do tho any changes to argonian are eiether gonna be worse or over powered. But as is argonian May not be absolutely hands down BiS but are still competitive. Back to sets tho you are only limited by your own thoughts

There really isn't an set that a Tank would wear that would give an Argonian an edge over Nord or Imperial. If I'm building a health Tank with Plague Doctor and Ebon, Imperial is better as it has more health. If I'm building for Ultimate Regen with Akaviri and Shalks, Nord is better. If I'm building for any form of damage, Imperial will do more just based on the fact they have more resources.

There is virtually NOTHING an Argonian tank can effectively build for and not be totally overshadowed by Nord or Imperial unless it's Healbot Tanking and that's only really useful for Dungeons and PvP. It's depressing.

People claim that any sort of buff for Argonian would make them OP, and totally ignore the fact that Imperial is actually lowkey OP right now, since its sustain is actually BETTER than an Argonians and has more resources for more damage overall.

Quite curious how you came up with the conclusion that Imperial sustain is better than Argonian?

Just their resource regen is 75% of the potion passive, 3x66.6 vs 3x88.8.
But imperials also get a 3% cost reduction on "all abilities (all the things!)"

It's kinda hard to quantify just how much the cost reduction exacty saves for you but we can get an estimate.
Based on my tanking experience I'd say these are pretty much mandatory skills:

Pierce Armor - used every 12 seconds for Major Breach and Fracture, 1700
Heroic Slash - every 9 seconds for Minor Heroism, 2970
Elemental Blockade - for enchant uptime, every 8 seconds, 3240

As a DK you would prob also run
Engulfing Flame - every 10 seconds for the fire damage boost, 2430
Igneous Shield - every 6 seconds for the shield, 4050

And you would also run a Major Ward&Resolve skill, less assume you are using Balance, costing 6630 HP, every 27 seconds
Plus an emergency self heal, but we can ignore that.
We can also ignore chains, talons and inner rage as they are very situational skills.

That's [(1700/12)+(2970/9)+(3240/8)+(2430/10)+(4050/6)+(6630/27)]*0.03 = 61.2 resources saved per second.
3x66.6 + 61.2 = 261
3x88.8 = 266.4

The difference in sustain is already pretty much non-existent, and that's just with the bare minimum of skills cast. What if you have to taunt two or three enemies simultaneously? That's an additional 4.25 stamina saved per enemy.

But notice how ZoS said on "all abilities (all the things!)". The wording makes me believe that this means imperials are getting cost reduction on dodge rolling, blocking, bashing, sprinting, etc as well, which would mean that imperials massively overtake argonians by not spending resources. (Tho I haven't personally tested it on PTS myself, so this is only an educated guess)

Why would I change my faithful lizard to a different race? There's a massive Nord hype but I'm sorry resistance, and 5 ultimate every 10 seconds is not everything.

Well, I guess tanking Direfrost Keep is now going to be easier

I've never used a Argonian tank before. I use a Bosmer

BattleAxe wrote: »

Let’s break it down what each of the 3 mainstream tank races brings to the table.

Nord: ultimate gen when taking damage plus natural resistance( armor type will be less of a factor)
Imperial: 3% all costs reduction high health and self resource sustain ( easier to manage resources)
Argonian: easy resource management with pots like immovable with health and main resource used tripots or any potion really 6% healing done and some max magicka (an argonian tank in end game trials will be self reliant enough to not need a healer babysitter for most content)

Conclusion each of these 3 races brings some decent tools to the table.

Could argonians use some kind of buff perhaps but must be very careful wut and how they buff becuz you risk making argonian too strong.

I really don’t think argonian brings resource management to the table, even on live. What they bring is a way to recover in an emergency- which can be extremely valuable. I just don’t think that’s the same as sustain.

I by no means am saying argonians couldn’t use some tlc but you must be very cautious in what is done

BattleAxe wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Let’s break it down what each of the 3 mainstream tank races brings to the table.

Nord: ultimate gen when taking damage plus natural resistance( armor type will be less of a factor)
Imperial: 3% all costs reduction high health and self resource sustain ( easier to manage resources)
Argonian: easy resource management with pots like immovable with health and main resource used tripots or any potion really 6% healing done and some max magicka (an argonian tank in end game trials will be self reliant enough to not need a healer babysitter for most content)

Conclusion each of these 3 races brings some decent tools to the table.

Could argonians use some kind of buff perhaps but must be very careful wut and how they buff becuz you risk making argonian too strong.

I really don’t think argonian brings resource management to the table, even on live. What they bring is a way to recover in an emergency- which can be extremely valuable. I just don’t think that’s the same as sustain.

Restoring all 3 pools by using a potion isn’t sustain? Sure as I also stated an imperial has self resource sustain argonians need potions but the point is each race brings a different tool to the table. You wanna wear just about any set and not think about armor type as much you will go nord. If you struggle with managing ur resources or you need more resource management you will go imperial. An argonian you will not need to rely on a healer to keep you alive and in a near wipe situation when healer goes down your bonus healing may be the difference between a wipe or finishing

Maybe in a dungeon but in a Trial there is absolutely no chance in hell this is happening; There is too much residual damage and mechanics in most trials to even try and salvage a wipe, especially if there's an enrage time, which pretty much every trial has. No amount of self sustain will save you if a healer goes down against the Assembly General during execute, can't pop a potion to stave off the 1 shot from Rakkhat's Wraith of the Void (I believe that's what the move is called if runners fail to kill all the shadows in the backroom, haven't been in MoL in awhile). It's just not happening. If a Healer is dying to easy mechanics, dying too often or if they're not being rezzed within the 45 seconds it takes for a pot to get off CD, there's much more issues with the group than a single potion will provide for.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Let’s break it down what each of the 3 mainstream tank races brings to the table.

Nord: ultimate gen when taking damage plus natural resistance( armor type will be less of a factor)
Imperial: 3% all costs reduction high health and self resource sustain ( easier to manage resources)
Argonian: easy resource management with pots like immovable with health and main resource used tripots or any potion really 6% healing done and some max magicka (an argonian tank in end game trials will be self reliant enough to not need a healer babysitter for most content)

Conclusion each of these 3 races brings some decent tools to the table.

Could argonians use some kind of buff perhaps but must be very careful wut and how they buff becuz you risk making argonian too strong.

I really don’t think argonian brings resource management to the table, even on live. What they bring is a way to recover in an emergency- which can be extremely valuable. I just don’t think that’s the same as sustain.

Restoring all 3 pools by using a potion isn’t sustain? Sure as I also stated an imperial has self resource sustain argonians need potions but the point is each race brings a different tool to the table. You wanna wear just about any set and not think about armor type as much you will go nord. If you struggle with managing ur resources or you need more resource management you will go imperial. An argonian you will not need to rely on a healer to keep you alive and in a near wipe situation when healer goes down your bonus healing may be the difference between a wipe or finishing

Maybe in a dungeon but in a Trial there is absolutely no chance in hell this is happening; There is too much residual damage and mechanics in most trials to even try and salvage a wipe, especially if there's an enrage time, which pretty much every trial has. No amount of self sustain will save you if a healer goes down against the Assembly General during execute, can't pop a potion to stave off the 1 shot from Rakkhat's Wraith of the Void (I believe that's what the move is called if runners fail to kill all the shadows in the backroom, haven't been in MoL in awhile). It's just not happening. If a Healer is dying to easy mechanics, dying too often or if they're not being rezzed within the 45 seconds it takes for a pot to get off CD, there's much more issues with the group than a single potion will provide for.

A 1 shot even with a healer alive is a 1 shot doesn’t matter if ur an argonian nord or imperial tank in that case and when I stated about not needing a healer I specifically meant certain trials usually one healer goes with tank specifically to heal tank an argonian tank will not necessarily need that healer meaning more focus from healers on the squishies I mean dps lol. Sorry I needed to use some tank humor. A tank that can off heal especially if it’s the off tank is another nice bonus an argonian tank brings to the table. I’m not trying to say the argonian couldn’t use some tlc but it’s not as bad as it may seem

I am currently an Argoinan dk (like many) the only one I would be interested in switching to is imperial but only if the sustain is noticeably better. Otherwise I’ll stay Argoinan. I like the sustain for my tank.

I think Redguards are going to make great tanks, Redguard Stam Sorc tank to be exact, better cost reduction and sustain than an imperial when it comes to tanking. Plus Sorcs have a built in 15% ultimate cost reduction in their passives which gives cheap warhorns as well.

My "nord since launch" tank will continue to do his thing and be just as awesome as always.

Just started on NA couple of weeks ago on a Nordtank, i kinda like it, never was into the argonians (lore-or otherwise). Having a good time with my nordgirl, will be probably even better when the patch goes live.