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How to protect guild against robbery? (ZOS wont help)
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SpacemanSpiff1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭green_villain wrote: »SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »I've had this happen in a former guild. GM was very trusting and promoted people she kinda knew. One kid emptied the guild bank and left during off-hours.
Don't promote people you don't know well.
its not about trust
read first post again
you guys promoted an unscrupulous person to a rank where they can access guild valuables. don't do that4 -
xb1LL_mr_sir_LL✭✭✭Zos policy always blame the player. Even though they added abusable mechanics to the game and refuse to remove them.
i could scam 100 people today and not worry about what zos will do one bit. I know at most I'll get a 3 day ban.
I've never understood why zos protects scammers/bots even though logically it seems super counter productive to the player population.0 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭green_villain wrote: »magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
if someone unknown robbed your credit card the bank will investigate and will provide some vebrose info to clear the situation
Yeah but they dont legaly have access to the card account and that is the differance0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭xb1LL_mr_sir_LL wrote: »Zos policy always blame the player. Even though they added abusable mechanics to the game and refuse to remove them.
i could scam 100 people today and not worry about what zos will do one bit. I know at most I'll get a 3 day ban.
I've never understood why zos protects scammers/bots even though logically it seems super counter productive to the player population.
You say you could easily scam 100 people today and it’s Zos’s fault. The way I see it, you were lucky enough to take advantage of a situation where 100 hypothetical players knew nothing of the potential of being scammed in a guild bank or that trade scams happen if you don’t pay attention to what’s in the trade window. You’re giving the notion that these scammers hacked into someone’s account when in reality, a deal occurred between players and someone got stiffed...... AKA not Zos’s problem. As for the bots, Zos does try to ban them but in case you didn’t know, people can make another account. There’s nothing short of hiring in game people like the old game masters to banish the bots, at least to my knowledge.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorry, bottom line never give access to a player you have not known and validated to be of worthy character.
ZOS really is not to blame here. The tools are sufficient to prevent this issue.
Also other games don't allow you to simply change your account name so easily as well and some won't even let you change it at all, they just give scammers another way to be a rat4 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorry, bottom line never give access to a player you have not known and validated to be of worthy character.
ZOS really is not to blame here. The tools are sufficient to prevent this issue.
Also other games don't allow you to simply change your account name so easily as well and some won't even let you change it at all, they just give scammers another way to be a rat
I have never said the tools could not be better, just that they are sufficient.
To toss out an old adage , it is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Or perhaps in this case an inexperienced leader.3 -
FluffyKitten✭✭✭Remove the bank rights of all officers, this might either lead to that people start talking or that the offender jump ship for another guild to f over.
Or a bit more drastic is that you remove all officers and only put real life friends in those positions from now on.
I understand ZOS, believe me, i despise this behaviour (or to be honest most ppl but that's not the point) but they cant out him, you gave him this privilege and its not against the rules to do a name change.
Of course they know who this person is but strictly speaking he haven't done anything illegal except for being a massive *** and that sadly is allowed.
Otherwise, as a guild leader you can see the activity of guildmates right?
In that case, list your officers down and start removing suspects, if suspect 1 was logged in and did something in his/her ID around the time of this event than I would assume that this is not the ***, remove as many suspects as possible and than go by hunch for the few you have left.Edited by FluffyKitten on February 22, 2019 4:49PM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tell every officer that if they cannot root out who did it, you will kick every one of them. Then if they miss the deadline, purge.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 22, 2019 5:08PM2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, bottom line never give access to a player you have not known and validated to be of worthy character.
ZOS really is not to blame here. The tools are sufficient to prevent this issue.
Also other games don't allow you to simply change your account name so easily as well and some won't even let you change it at all, they just give scammers another way to be a rat
Agreed, but then the account name should never be visible to other players in the first place, it's a massive security risk.0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorry, bottom line never give access to a player you have not known and validated to be of worthy character.
ZOS really is not to blame here. The tools are sufficient to prevent this issue.
Also other games don't allow you to simply change your account name so easily as well and some won't even let you change it at all, they just give scammers another way to be a rat
Agreed, but then the account name should never be visible to other players in the first place, it's a massive security risk.
I agree, only the avatar name should be available, never liked that ESO uses the account name for open reference.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, bottom line never give access to a player you have not known and validated to be of worthy character.
ZOS really is not to blame here. The tools are sufficient to prevent this issue.
Also other games don't allow you to simply change your account name so easily as well and some won't even let you change it at all, they just give scammers another way to be a rat
Agreed, but then the account name should never be visible to other players in the first place, it's a massive security risk.
I agree, only the avatar name should be available, never liked that ESO uses the account name for open reference.
That's, actually, worse.
Guild membership is account wide. Roll up a new character, empty guild bank, shuffle it wherever, nuke character, no evidence.
Two roads to the same destination.1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Sorry, bottom line never give access to a player you have not known and validated to be of worthy character.
ZOS really is not to blame here. The tools are sufficient to prevent this issue.
Also other games don't allow you to simply change your account name so easily as well and some won't even let you change it at all, they just give scammers another way to be a rat
Agreed, but then the account name should never be visible to other players in the first place, it's a massive security risk.
I agree, only the avatar name should be available, never liked that ESO uses the account name for open reference.
That's, actually, worse.
Guild membership is account wide. Roll up a new character, empty guild bank, shuffle it wherever, nuke character, no evidence.
Two roads to the same destination.
Worse for guild bank control but better for user account security. I would rather have the account security.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Sorry, bottom line never give access to a player you have not known and validated to be of worthy character.
ZOS really is not to blame here. The tools are sufficient to prevent this issue.
Also other games don't allow you to simply change your account name so easily as well and some won't even let you change it at all, they just give scammers another way to be a rat
Agreed, but then the account name should never be visible to other players in the first place, it's a massive security risk.
I agree, only the avatar name should be available, never liked that ESO uses the account name for open reference.
That's, actually, worse.
Guild membership is account wide. Roll up a new character, empty guild bank, shuffle it wherever, nuke character, no evidence.
Two roads to the same destination.
Worse for guild bank control but better for user account security. I would rather have the account security.
Worse for community security overall. Remember, most scammers don't know that you can change your username. To say nothing of on the consoles where you can't.0 -
radiostar✭✭✭✭✭
✭GMs should have a deeper control over the bank, since you cannot really control the players. 500 slots need to have a better control than a light switch, on/off. There should be tabs or blocks of slots that can be given for use or redlined off from the differing ranks. The GM could then lock down a section of storage for things they don't want to disappear, even from a trusted officer. Best ideal is the GM can choose how many slots for each tier they want to include in a security scenario. But it's Z, come on now!
"Billions upon Billions of Stars"0 -
Leocaran✭✭✭
What's even more funny, players also blame players. To the point that literal self-proclaimed scammers come and have audacity to lecture everyone on good conduct.xb1LL_mr_sir_LL wrote: »Zos policy always blame the player. Even though they added abusable mechanics to the game and refuse to remove them.
i could scam 100 people today and not worry about what zos will do one bit. I know at most I'll get a 3 day ban.
I've never understood why zos protects scammers/bots even though logically it seems super counter productive to the player population.
Only ZOS is completely innocent and blameless.
2 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
What's even more funny, players also blame players. To the point that literal self-proclaimed scammers come and have audacity to lecture everyone on good conduct.xb1LL_mr_sir_LL wrote: »Zos policy always blame the player. Even though they added abusable mechanics to the game and refuse to remove them.
i could scam 100 people today and not worry about what zos will do one bit. I know at most I'll get a 3 day ban.
I've never understood why zos protects scammers/bots even though logically it seems super counter productive to the player population.
Only ZOS is completely innocent and blameless.
Also the problem is the scammer may infact be the leader themselves as well on alt accounts I heard of situations like that before when people donated tons of stuff to guild bank then the leader "acted" like it was someone else but it turned out to be one of there alt accounts5 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭green_villain wrote: »one of my officers changed his name
robbed all my bank
and then changed name back
i dont know who it was also Zenimax support wont help too = they wont tell me who is the real thief, his @id
i told him @id in guild history doesnt exist anymore but only answer i got was
its normal that Zenimax encourages robbery?
Yes it is very normal...if Zenimax is the thieve!
Now on a serious note,
How do you know the player changed the @Name?....changing @Name should go through game-support request and has to have a reason. I personally changed my @name once right after the beta period was over.
If someone requested @Name replacement for malicious purpose then the player has to be banned from the game...and all the damage repaired if possible.
Just open one more ticket and demand a clear action:
"The player @XYZ took all the gold from ABC guild's bank on this date. No one gave player @XYZ access to the guild bank.
Please help us to recover the guild gold back."
Assuming that someone changed their @name is wrong. Maybe it was a game glitch, or a hack, or you might be right - but let ZOS do the investigation.
You just need the money back. Normally if they will find a player guilty of stealing , they will drop a ban.
Cheers!
Edited by Didgerion on February 22, 2019 7:35PM0 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭green_villain wrote: »one of my officers changed his name
robbed all my bank
and then changed name back
i dont know who it was also Zenimax support wont help too = they wont tell me who is the real thief, his @id
i told him @id in guild history doesnt exist anymore but only answer i got was
its normal that Zenimax encourages robbery?
Yes it is very normal...if Zenimax is the thieve!
Now on a serious note,
How do you know the player changed the @Name?....changing @Name should go through game-support request and has to have a reason. I personally changed my @name once right after the beta period was over.
If someone requested @Name replacement for malicious purpose then the player has to be banned from the game...and all the damage repaired if possible.
Just open one more ticket and demand a clear action:
"The player @XYZ took all the gold from ABC guild's bank on this date. No one gave player @XYZ access to the guild bank.
Please help us to recover the guild gold back."
Assuming that someone changed their @name is wrong. Maybe it was a game glitch, or a hack, or you might be right - but let ZOS do the investigation.
You just need the money back. Normally if they will find a player guilty of stealing , they will drop a ban.
Cheers!
@name changes are no longer done that way. Anyone at anytime can now change their names via their own account page. Its been like this for a while.1 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭green_villain wrote: »
Yeah, you have to add the name to ignore list BEFORE it is changed, which is why a cooldown on changing @ names would be a great anti-fraud measure.1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭
What's even more funny, players also blame players. To the point that literal self-proclaimed scammers come and have audacity to lecture everyone on good conduct.xb1LL_mr_sir_LL wrote: »Zos policy always blame the player. Even though they added abusable mechanics to the game and refuse to remove them.
i could scam 100 people today and not worry about what zos will do one bit. I know at most I'll get a 3 day ban.
I've never understood why zos protects scammers/bots even though logically it seems super counter productive to the player population.
Only ZOS is completely innocent and blameless.
Your missing the point, you guys are already labeling me a scammer when in reality all I did was cod someone a willpower sword with a bad trait on ACCIDENT, I didn’t realize until the next day. He dm me on Xbox but I didn’t feel like giving the money back.0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Something doesn’t seem right here. I disputed a dues deposit with a Guild Master. They said they didn’t see it.
I opened a ticket and within a day they saw my transaction deposit.
If one person withdrew everything, I’m positive they can find it.1 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »
What's even more funny, players also blame players. To the point that literal self-proclaimed scammers come and have audacity to lecture everyone on good conduct.xb1LL_mr_sir_LL wrote: »Zos policy always blame the player. Even though they added abusable mechanics to the game and refuse to remove them.
i could scam 100 people today and not worry about what zos will do one bit. I know at most I'll get a 3 day ban.
I've never understood why zos protects scammers/bots even though logically it seems super counter productive to the player population.
Only ZOS is completely innocent and blameless.
Your missing the point, you guys are already labeling me a scammer when in reality all I did was cod someone a willpower sword with a bad trait on ACCIDENT, I didn’t realize until the next day. He dm me on Xbox but I didn’t feel like giving the money back.
Did you send what was advertised?
If not, bait and switch is a scam.
4 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Something doesn’t seem right here. I disputed a dues deposit with a Guild Master. They said they didn’t see it.
I opened a ticket and within a day they saw my transaction deposit.
If one person withdrew everything, I’m positive they can find it.
Of course ZOS can find it. It's the players that can't properly see the transaction. If ZOS won't tell the GM who did it and the GM doesn't know due to the name change, then it's impossible to know.0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Something doesn’t seem right here. I disputed a dues deposit with a Guild Master. They said they didn’t see it.
I opened a ticket and within a day they saw my transaction deposit.
If one person withdrew everything, I’m positive they can find it.
Of course ZOS can find it. It's the players that can't properly see the transaction. If ZOS won't tell the GM who did it and the GM doesn't know due to the name change, then it's impossible to know.
But as a GM you can see the entire withdrawal history.
Are you saying the name change just deleted those records?1 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »
What's even more funny, players also blame players. To the point that literal self-proclaimed scammers come and have audacity to lecture everyone on good conduct.xb1LL_mr_sir_LL wrote: »Zos policy always blame the player. Even though they added abusable mechanics to the game and refuse to remove them.
i could scam 100 people today and not worry about what zos will do one bit. I know at most I'll get a 3 day ban.
I've never understood why zos protects scammers/bots even though logically it seems super counter productive to the player population.
Only ZOS is completely innocent and blameless.
Your missing the point, you guys are already labeling me a scammer when in reality all I did was cod someone a willpower sword with a bad trait on ACCIDENT, I didn’t realize until the next day. He dm me on Xbox but I didn’t feel like giving the money back.
Did you send what was advertised?
If not, bait and switch is a scam.
You realize he could check the cod mail to ensure the trait was correct before accepting it right?0
