zParallaxz wrote: »I bet I’m not the only one in this thread who’s scammed before or is close friends with someone who scammed.
Actually this goes a better further then usual scamming with them changing their name to hid the theif. Just tell customer service their is error in bank history that says username doesn't exists so you don't know what happened to your items. Cause technically you are supposed to know username of who took item.
magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
Agree. It's really laughable people saying you can know someone by MMORPG. You barely can do that in real life, and you still will be wrong all the time. But in an online anonymous roleplay game, without any actual personal contact... I'm baffled.DaveMoeDee wrote: »There is no way to really know if someone is untrustworthy. We can't meaningfully vet players. People can easily play the long game.
Unless I'm surrounded by mind-reading psychic prophets and (of course) don't know it.
I have had phone calls, skype calls, discord calls, discord video, written communications and even visited people in person. One can also search them online for background as to if they are at least real. It is actually fairly easy to establish a reasonable level of comfort as to who a person is.
It is very likely the OP knew absolutly nothing of the thief other than his in game identity AND from the post the same can be said of all the other officers who appearantly have/had full access to the guild bank. I am not trying to call the OP out, quite the contrary, once he/she understands they do have the power to manage this their gaming experience will be much better.
Skype, in person, blah blah blah. None of this means anything. You don't know the person. A certain percentage of human beings are sociopaths. They are, by definition, good at manipulating people, even in person. Such is life.
You are basically saying that even in large trade guilds with tons of work to do, the GM must always do it all and trust no one to share any of the work. I say instead that ZOS needs to develop better tools.
green_villain wrote: »magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
if someone unknown robbed your credit card the bank will investigate and will provide some vebrose info to clear the situation
green_villain wrote: »magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
if someone unknown robbed your credit card the bank will investigate and will provide some vebrose info to clear the situation
That is not a good analogy. "Robbing" means taking something you were not authorised to take. The issue with all "our guild bank got robbed!" situations in ESO is that it is not a robbery. It is similar to you handing your credit card to someone else and telling them the pin-code. Even if they were to spend all your money they were technically authorised to do it and it is your own fault.
You can't take anything from the bank unless you are given access. And that access is an all or nothing thing. So once you gave someone access they can technically take everything because you are the one who allowed them to do it. Any kind of additional "don't take too much" rule is purely based on trust and that's why you should either never give access to guild banks to people you do not trust or always be aware that someone might take everything (once again, because you allowed them) and not keep anything valuable in the guild bank.
Monte_Cristo wrote: »I didn't know you could change your @name.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »green_villain wrote: »magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
if someone unknown robbed your credit card the bank will investigate and will provide some vebrose info to clear the situation
That is not a good analogy. "Robbing" means taking something you were not authorised to take. The issue with all "our guild bank got robbed!" situations in ESO is that it is not a robbery. It is similar to you handing your credit card to someone else and telling them the pin-code. Even if they were to spend all your money they were technically authorised to do it and it is your own fault.
You can't take anything from the bank unless you are given access. And that access is an all or nothing thing. So once you gave someone access they can technically take everything because you are the one who allowed them to do it. Any kind of additional "don't take too much" rule is purely based on trust and that's why you should either never give access to guild banks to people you do not trust or always be aware that someone might take everything (once again, because you allowed them) and not keep anything valuable in the guild bank.
Actually this is not true. You are giving them access not concent.
The same would be if someone who was visiting your house took your car keys off the table and stole your car. People don't say "you shouldn't have let that guy in your house" or "you shouldn't keep your keys in your house"
Theft of items is still theft. Access granted or not.
If it was me I'd add all the officers to friends list then ignore the @name who stole the stuff. It will likely remove whoever had that @ name from your friends list. Might not work so far after the fact but worth a shot.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »green_villain wrote: »magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
if someone unknown robbed your credit card the bank will investigate and will provide some vebrose info to clear the situation
That is not a good analogy. "Robbing" means taking something you were not authorised to take. The issue with all "our guild bank got robbed!" situations in ESO is that it is not a robbery. It is similar to you handing your credit card to someone else and telling them the pin-code. Even if they were to spend all your money they were technically authorised to do it and it is your own fault.
You can't take anything from the bank unless you are given access. And that access is an all or nothing thing. So once you gave someone access they can technically take everything because you are the one who allowed them to do it. Any kind of additional "don't take too much" rule is purely based on trust and that's why you should either never give access to guild banks to people you do not trust or always be aware that someone might take everything (once again, because you allowed them) and not keep anything valuable in the guild bank.
Actually this is not true. You are giving them access not concent.
The same would be if someone who was visiting your house took your car keys off the table and stole your car. People don't say "you shouldn't have let that guy in your house" or "you shouldn't keep your keys in your house"
Theft of items is still theft. Access granted or not.
If it was me I'd add all the officers to friends list then ignore the @name who stole the stuff. It will likely remove whoever had that @ name from your friends list. Might not work so far after the fact but worth a shot.
Once again, that's a wrong example. When you invite your friend to your house you do not give them permission to take your car keys. You wouldn't call it a robbery if you gave your friend keys to your car though, right? When you give someone access to guild bank you do give them permission to take everything from it. That's how this system is designed.
Monte_Cristo wrote: »I didn't know you could change your @name.
Right!?!? This is the core issue in this case that people keep overlooking.
green_villain wrote: »magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
if someone unknown robbed your credit card the bank will investigate and will provide some vebrose info to clear the situation
Monte_Cristo wrote: »I didn't know you could change your @name.
Right!?!? This is the core issue in this case that people keep overlooking.
This issue has been addressed several times, actually.
And I predict that ZoS will not accede to OP's request.
1) OP granted permission to a certain number of players to withdraw items from OP's guild bank.
2) One of these players withdrew items.
3) The player who withdrew items changed his/her account name in order to disguise his/her withdrawals
4) OP is asking ZoS to examine the account details of all players to whom he granted guild bank access and report to him the account name of the player who withdrew items under a particular account name.
OP is asking ZoS to violate two ZoS policies: (1) share player account details with another player and (2) act as policeman/arbiter of alleged violations of a private agreement amongst players, to whit: adhere to a guild's policy on guild bank withdrawals.
I understand that most guilds have policies on guild bank access. I am sure that ZoS is aware of this, and I am sure that ZoS is aware that a supermajority of players agree that excessive guild bank withdrawals or emptying a guild bank is not fair play.
Unfortunately, such agreements and consensus of opinion are essentially private agreements among players, and ZoS is under no obligation to investigate and enforce them.
redspecter23 wrote: »Monte_Cristo wrote: »I didn't know you could change your @name.
Right!?!? This is the core issue in this case that people keep overlooking.
This issue has been addressed several times, actually.
And I predict that ZoS will not accede to OP's request.
1) OP granted permission to a certain number of players to withdraw items from OP's guild bank.
2) One of these players withdrew items.
3) The player who withdrew items changed his/her account name in order to disguise his/her withdrawals
4) OP is asking ZoS to examine the account details of all players to whom he granted guild bank access and report to him the account name of the player who withdrew items under a particular account name.
OP is asking ZoS to violate two ZoS policies: (1) share player account details with another player and (2) act as policeman/arbiter of alleged violations of a private agreement amongst players, to whit: adhere to a guild's policy on guild bank withdrawals.
I understand that most guilds have policies on guild bank access. I am sure that ZoS is aware of this, and I am sure that ZoS is aware that a supermajority of players agree that excessive guild bank withdrawals or emptying a guild bank is not fair play.
Unfortunately, such agreements and consensus of opinion are essentially private agreements among players, and ZoS is under no obligation to investigate and enforce them.
It may be true that ZOS is under no obligation to investigate in this situation, but I think it's quite reasonable to request a change to the current system that does allow full tracking of guild bank withdrawals, even during and after name changes. What's done has been done, but it highlights an issue that could be changed to prevent things like this in the future. Asking ZOS to become an arbiter of the alleged allegations is probably not something they will do, but I think it's fully reasonable to know the name of the person that has made guild bank withdrawals as that is knowledge we are supposed to have access to.
zParallaxz wrote: »I bet I’m not the only one in this thread who’s scammed before or is close friends with someone who scammed.
Not something to brag about....
magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
green_villain wrote: »magikarper wrote: »A lot of blaming the victim in this thread...when someone is betrayed, it doesn't automatically mean the crime was the fault of the victim. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't in this particular case, but those who are certain it was OP's fault are jumping to conclusions. Those who say the names should be tracked dynamically are correct.
No one is blaming the OP. I am saying the OP could have preveted the event. The thief is still wrong.
Real life has a very similar analogy. Should a husband or wife clean out a bank account they share the legal authorities will do nothing about it.
Even if a divorce is then filed afterwords, if they money was already spent before the filing, it is not part of the shared assets anymore. Why would you expect more from ZOS than what is even possible in a real legal system?
if someone unknown robbed your credit card the bank will investigate and will provide some vebrose info to clear the situation
Because they are legally obligated to do so, not because they care.
But if their investigation reveals that you gave your credit card to someone, you are liable for their purchases. “I gave him my card but I hoped he wouldn’t max it out” isn’t a valid defense. The same concept applies here.
SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »I've had this happen in a former guild. GM was very trusting and promoted people she kinda knew. One kid emptied the guild bank and left during off-hours.
Don't promote people you don't know well.
green_villain wrote: »SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »I've had this happen in a former guild. GM was very trusting and promoted people she kinda knew. One kid emptied the guild bank and left during off-hours.
Don't promote people you don't know well.
its not about trust
read first post again
green_villain wrote: »one of my officers changed his name
robbed all my bank
and then changed name back
i dont know who it was also Zenimax support wont help too = they wont tell me who is the real thief, his @id
i told him @id in guild history doesnt exist anymore but only answer i got was
its normal that Zenimax encourages robbery?