I would sacrifice this passive in a heartbeat because idiots swear up and down that it's some magic "I win" button on Argonians when all it does is breaks even with what other races have naturally. Absolutely anything would be better at this point. Hell, I'd settle for just reverting the passive back to the 12% passive it was prior to Morrowind, least no one complained about it then.

Players that chose Argonian before the changes knew what they could expect from the race. In that regard nothing changed.

I don't know why Argonian players were expecting buffs to DPS racials when there was no indication for that to happen (or to be necessary). Argonian was always about healing and their very strong utility passives and in that regard they are still excellent. They make great healers and tanks even after the changes and I couldn't care less if Bretons might be a little bit better due to sustain or whatever.

If you want to be competitive DPS wise you didn't pick Argonian to begin with. If 1-2k DPS matter that much for you your choice already was Altmer, Dunmer or whatever.

To say Argonians are shoehorned into healing or being one of the "worst" DPS races is a very narrow-minded view on the race that still will be an excellent pick for PvP.

Don't get me wrong, they could increase Stamina/Magicka a bit or transform the healing passive into Spell Damage but besides that Argonians were not to expect significant DPS racials or changes in that regard.

I do agree argonian passives need looked at but here is the problem argonians face they were nerfed this patch becuz of over performance in pvp which in turn has effected argonians in pve. in order to balance argonians is gonna have to be very thought out becuz if you buff certain passives too much u risk putting argonians back into overperforming in either pve or pvp making it overshadow other races. But to play devils advocate for argonians as either healer or tank their passives actually allow them to equip more group utility based sets and be just as competitive as a tank now as a healer Bretons do have sustain to their advantage but if you build your argonian correctly you will sustain just as well

Seraphayel wrote: »

Players that chose Argonian before the changes knew what they could expect from the race. In that regard nothing changed.

I don't know why Argonian players were expecting buffs to DPS racials when there was no indication for that to happen (or to be necessary). Argonian was always about healing and their very strong utility passives and in that regard they are still excellent. They make great healers and tanks even after the changes and I couldn't care less if Bretons might be a little bit better due to sustain or whatever.

If you want to be competitive DPS wise you didn't pick Argonian to begin with. If 1-2k DPS matter that much for you your choice already was Altmer, Dunmer or whatever.

To say Argonians are shoehorned into healing or being one of the "worst" DPS races is a very narrow-minded view on the race that still will be an excellent pick for PvP.

Don't get me wrong, they could increase Stamina/Magicka a bit or transform the healing passive into Spell Damage but besides that Argonians were not to expect significant DPS racials or changes in that regard.

There was no indication that Khajiit would be made into valid Magic DPS either but it happened anyways so why is this even an argument?

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Players that chose Argonian before the changes knew what they could expect from the race. In that regard nothing changed.

I don't know why Argonian players were expecting buffs to DPS racials when there was no indication for that to happen (or to be necessary). Argonian was always about healing and their very strong utility passives and in that regard they are still excellent. They make great healers and tanks even after the changes and I couldn't care less if Bretons might be a little bit better due to sustain or whatever.

If you want to be competitive DPS wise you didn't pick Argonian to begin with. If 1-2k DPS matter that much for you your choice already was Altmer, Dunmer or whatever.

To say Argonians are shoehorned into healing or being one of the "worst" DPS races is a very narrow-minded view on the race that still will be an excellent pick for PvP.

Don't get me wrong, they could increase Stamina/Magicka a bit or transform the healing passive into Spell Damage but besides that Argonians were not to expect significant DPS racials or changes in that regard.

There was no indication that Khajiit would be made into valid Magic DPS either but it happened anyways so why is this even an argument?

True that. The important point is that Khajiit never were a "utility" race like Argonians, they were a pure damage race. Same with Dunmer. That's why they're still an excellent damage race but now for Magicka and Stamina builds. In the end nothing changed for both races when it comes to their role disposition.

Argonians never were a damage race. That's why this is an argument. Argonian was no DPS race and won't be in the future.

You can choose, sustain or damage or utility. Those are the three categories for races (with Khajiit being a weaker mix of damage and sustain at the same time).

Argonians are a utility (tank) race and there was no indication for any changes in that regard.

I personally mainly just want argonians to be less lorebreaking.
The +1000 HP contradicts the - Endurance of earlier games and argos never had such a huge Restoration affinity.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Players that chose Argonian before the changes knew what they could expect from the race. In that regard nothing changed.

I don't know why Argonian players were expecting buffs to DPS racials when there was no indication for that to happen (or to be necessary). Argonian was always about healing and their very strong utility passives and in that regard they are still excellent. They make great healers and tanks even after the changes and I couldn't care less if Bretons might be a little bit better due to sustain or whatever.

If you want to be competitive DPS wise you didn't pick Argonian to begin with. If 1-2k DPS matter that much for you your choice already was Altmer, Dunmer or whatever.

To say Argonians are shoehorned into healing or being one of the "worst" DPS races is a very narrow-minded view on the race that still will be an excellent pick for PvP.

Don't get me wrong, they could increase Stamina/Magicka a bit or transform the healing passive into Spell Damage but besides that Argonians were not to expect significant DPS racials or changes in that regard.

There was no indication that Khajiit would be made into valid Magic DPS either but it happened anyways so why is this even an argument?

True that. The important point is that Khajiit never were a "utility" race like Argonians, they were a pure damage race. Same with Dunmer. That's why they're still an excellent damage race but now for Magicka and Stamina builds. In the end nothing changed for both races when it comes to their role disposition.

Argonians never were a damage race. That's why this is an argument. Argonian was no DPS race and won't be in the future.

You can choose, sustain or damage or utility. Those are the three categories for races (with Khajiit being a weaker mix of damage and sustain at the same time).

Argonians are a utility (tank) race and there was no indication for any changes in that regard.

Tanks can make use of any of the passives and make up for the difference with gear, any race can be a tank, some are just more straightforward than others.
Healers are pretty much DPS wearing support armor, any race that can be a mag DD can also be a mag healer, but reverse isn't necessarily true.

Khajiit is probably the worse race to use as defense against increasing argonian flexibility as they are the one race whose racial got explicitly changed to also affect healing.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Infused jewelry with pot CD reduction glyphs?

A net loss if you are using anything but tripots.

No I have argonian for argonian passives andI have different races for their different passives and I may choose to race change some races for their passives but in the end I want argonian passives so I have argonian and I dont want orc passives and If i wanted Orc passives i would make orc not claim my argonian needs to have orc passives.

I have never been an argonian player, but looking at the racials on paper I hate them. Argonians are forced to play a healer or a tank to optimize their racials, and even then there are other races that compete or outshine them in those roles. On top of that, having a main racial tied to chugging potions turns me off.

I would completely change argonian racials to fit their origins of regeneration and speed / agility.

Argonian & Bosmer seems to have the weakest passives right now (PTS changes, soon on live server). Those 2 races will be the weakest next update and they wont be used in any type of content. Sure, will be still good for RP & Questing and overland content and perhaps in very rare cases for PvP. And that is pretty much it.

(Looking at original racial rebalance goals I have a feeling that something, somewhere went terribly wrong)

Seraphayel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Players that chose Argonian before the changes knew what they could expect from the race. In that regard nothing changed.

I don't know why Argonian players were expecting buffs to DPS racials when there was no indication for that to happen (or to be necessary). Argonian was always about healing and their very strong utility passives and in that regard they are still excellent. They make great healers and tanks even after the changes and I couldn't care less if Bretons might be a little bit better due to sustain or whatever.

If you want to be competitive DPS wise you didn't pick Argonian to begin with. If 1-2k DPS matter that much for you your choice already was Altmer, Dunmer or whatever.

To say Argonians are shoehorned into healing or being one of the "worst" DPS races is a very narrow-minded view on the race that still will be an excellent pick for PvP.

Don't get me wrong, they could increase Stamina/Magicka a bit or transform the healing passive into Spell Damage but besides that Argonians were not to expect significant DPS racials or changes in that regard.

There was no indication that Khajiit would be made into valid Magic DPS either but it happened anyways so why is this even an argument?

True that. The important point is that Khajiit never were a "utility" race like Argonians, they were a pure damage race. Same with Dunmer. That's why they're still an excellent damage race but now for Magicka and Stamina builds. In the end nothing changed for both races when it comes to their role disposition.

Argonians never were a damage race. That's why this is an argument. Argonian was no DPS race and won't be in the future.

You can choose, sustain or damage or utility. Those are the three categories for races (with Khajiit being a weaker mix of damage and sustain at the same time).

Argonians are a utility (tank) race and there was no indication for any changes in that regard.

And where do Orcs fall in this argument. Originally, Orcs could serve either as Tanks or DPS as half their passives were Tank based (Max health, Healing Received and Health Recovery) while the other half was DPS/Flavor (Max Stamina, Melee Damage, Sprint cost reduction/Movement speed). They lost some of their Tank traits (Healing Received and traded health regen for a small self heal) but got their melee damage changed into Weapon Damage, which has more universal usage as it effects Stamina Heals (which outweighs the Healing Received removal) and Bow abilities now.

Argonians lost some of their Tank potency (Healing Received) and some of their sustain (20% worth) and got JACK$#!! for it. The 1% Healing Done is not a fair trade by any stretch of the imagination, especially if we take into consideration the loss of poison resistance as well. While every other race more or less broke even with these changes, if not got buffed, Bosmer and Argonians both got shafted, hard.

Would have changing Life Mender to provide 129 Weapon/Spell damage, with an additional 129 added to Healing Abilities really have been THAT hard? Or just make it a 3% Healing done with 129 Weapon/Spell Damage. Or ANYTHING at all so Argonian Tanks don't get totally screwed over while opening up some DPS options to us.

An Orc can still Tank, with stronger Vigors and more damage, but an Argonian lost some of its Tank potency for no benefit and that's just not fair or balanced.

Edit: meant 20%, 40 was a typo