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Replace Orc Health with Magicka Recovery
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »People thinking stamina is "useless", please try to do vMoS HM without rolling. Or sprinting, blocking or interrupting, if you want an extra bit of spice. But I assure you just doing it without rolling will suffice.
No one ever said you don't need to roll. You just don't need to spam it, not that this passive lets you spam it (it's just 215 stamina regen). Mechanics are spaced out far apart enough in dungeons and trials that you don't need anything more than base stamina regen. I've never once thought to myself while doing vMoS "I wish I had more stamina". And again, if I ever ran into a scenario where I needed more stamina, 215 stamina regen wouldn't alleviate that (it's not an immediate injection of stamina when you run out, it's just regen).
So you dont run tristat pots on the final boss HM to get extra stam regen on your mag build, like pretty much everyone else?
No. Why would you need tri-pots for any PvE fight?
In fact, here is a video of the fight. Notice how his stamina never drops below 40%, on a magicka character?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=103&v=jQHtrEurgko
The only time you will ever run out of stamina is if your finger is glued to the sprint key.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 22, 2019 4:49AM0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I mean, why should High Elves have a monopoly on the worst utility passive in the game?
When you're conducting the post-mortem on Wrathstone, trying to explain the sudden wave of unsubs, this is why: absolutely awful decisions that should've never made it to PTS in the first place look like they're actually going to make it to live servers. If 4.3.4 is the end, then Wrathstone racial changes are an abject failure that cast the company's intentions in the worst possible light.
Orc - Orc is stupidly OP, with 2k Max Stam, 258 WD, 1k Health, and several universally useful utility passives. Completely overshadows Redguard.
Altmer - Altmer's Magicka generalist identity is destroyed by niche passives. All other mag races pull nearly identical DPS, but all of them offer superior universal utility. Off-stat regen is trash, and does not fairly compensate for what was taken away. "Increased chance to apply status effects" or a dozen other clearly superior alternatives have been suggested. The only explanation for refusing to offer better utility is an actual dev intent to drive players away from Altmer characters, a change that would give many of them actual utility with no statistical change in DPS.
Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess that's one way of ending the Murkmire era, but damn though. Kinda brutal.
Bosmer - Penetration after dodge roll is awkward and pointless. Penetration based on range is just one of 1000 obvious alternatives that would actually suit the archer playstyle better. The stealth bonus nerf is senseless and should be reverted.
Frankly, these changes should not go live. If there's anything that can be done internally to remedy this cluster$#%^ before launch it is in the company's best interests to do it. I've already unsubbed and I'm sure many, many more will follow when they find out that >3 characters are affected and you want to charge people money if they want to fix >3 characters you've messed up. There's no surprise here that video games have to make updates and change things. Cool. But it is an unethical business practice to change things in such a way that intentionally dissatisfies customers so that you can profit on selling them fixes. It is absolutely transparent that this is happening here. All mag DPS parse nearly identical, yet you gimped the most popular Magicka DD race with no utility in PvE content to sell race change tokens. And there's a similar situation for Argonian tanks and Redguard DPS. You didn't just create equal alternatives - you created superior alternatives and nerfed the old meta. Players are smart enough to see that and are not going to keep paying your bills. I don't blame anyone in particular because I have no idea what internal factors cause companies to do stupid things like this, but somebody needs to take note and fix it. Many existing characters are being disadvantaged in this update in ways that are easily avoidable if ZOS would only put a little effort into ensuring that our concerns are given a serious look before going live.
Its universally known that ZOs is against AD alliance, despite it never won a alliance war not even in third place. Moreover AD is third in all alliance wars by a distant margin. Its not because of skill. ZOs intentionally want to lose by garbage balance. You are wasting your time. They very well know its not balanced and completely biased towards DC. EP is more or less balanced. They will simply laugh at your angry post behind the back. Just think for a minute. Even a complete noob in this game can figure out in few seconds.
What rock do you live under I’ve seen ad win multiple back to back campaigns on all 3 platformsEdited by BattleAxe on February 22, 2019 4:59AM0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »People thinking stamina is "useless", please try to do vMoS HM without rolling. Or sprinting, blocking or interrupting, if you want an extra bit of spice. But I assure you just doing it without rolling will suffice.
No one ever said you don't need to roll. You just don't need to spam it, not that this passive lets you spam it (it's just 215 stamina regen). Mechanics are spaced out far apart enough in dungeons and trials that you don't need anything more than base stamina regen. I've never once thought to myself while doing vMoS "I wish I had more stamina". And again, if I ever ran into a scenario where I needed more stamina, 215 stamina regen wouldn't alleviate that (it's not an immediate injection of stamina when you run out, it's just regen).
So you dont run tristat pots on the final boss HM to get extra stam regen on your mag build, like pretty much everyone else?
No. Why would you need tri-pots for any PvE fight?
In fact, here is a video of the fight. Notice how his stamina never drops below 40%, on a magicka character?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=103&v=jQHtrEurgko
The only time you will run out of stamina is if your finger is glued to the sprint key.
Lies, 2:21 to 2:30 his stamina is constantly dropping below the roll threshold. 4:21 - 4:28, any roll check or even just a aggro pull at that point while on the land phase would have been a death. 4:48 - 5:02. stamina too low, mechanic check at that point would be a death.
You link a video of a group of top tier players completing the challenge, but at plenty of occasions bad luck would have been a wipe. Bad luck that could be mitigated by more stamina regen. Particularly at 4:21, he could not roll, a single aggro pull or dodge check would have killed him.
There are also a lot of party deaths to the rolling mechanic, almost like that specific mechanic is hard to do without stamina :thinking:EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭And once again, for some reason, you people inexplicably forget that there are numerous ways to get stamina in the rare circumstances that you need it without gimping everyone else all the time in everything else that they do.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »People thinking stamina is "useless", please try to do vMoS HM without rolling. Or sprinting, blocking or interrupting, if you want an extra bit of spice. But I assure you just doing it without rolling will suffice.
No one ever said you don't need to roll. You just don't need to spam it, not that this passive lets you spam it (it's just 215 stamina regen). Mechanics are spaced out far apart enough in dungeons and trials that you don't need anything more than base stamina regen. I've never once thought to myself while doing vMoS "I wish I had more stamina". And again, if I ever ran into a scenario where I needed more stamina, 215 stamina regen wouldn't alleviate that (it's not an immediate injection of stamina when you run out, it's just regen).
So you dont run tristat pots on the final boss HM to get extra stam regen on your mag build, like pretty much everyone else?
No. Why would you need tri-pots for any PvE fight?
In fact, here is a video of the fight. Notice how his stamina never drops below 40%, on a magicka character?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=103&v=jQHtrEurgko
The only time you will run out of stamina is if your finger is glued to the sprint key.
Lies, 2:21 to 2:30 his stamina is constantly dropping below the roll threshold. 4:21 - 4:28, any roll check or even just a aggro pull at that point while on the land phase would have been a death. 4:48 - 5:02. stamina too low, mechanic check at that point would be a death.
You link a video of a group of top tier players completing the challenge, but at plenty of occasions bad luck would have been a wipe. Bad luck that could be mitigated by more stamina regen. Particularly at 4:21, he could not roll, a single aggro pull or dodge check would have killed him.
There are also a lot of party deaths to the rolling mechanic, almost like that specific mechanic is hard to do without stamina :thinking:
Okay, so his stamina does drop below the threshold a few times (I just quickly clicked through the video). That is irrelevant as the mechanics are far apart enough that you have plenty of time to regenerate your stamina.0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »And once again, for some reason, you people inexplicably forget that there are numerous ways to get stamina in the rare circumstances that you need it without gimping everyone else all the time in everything else that they do.
It's supposed to be utility. Not something you use to get more damage or be unquestionably better than everyone else at anything in-particular. Everyone can make good use of extra stamina if they want to, its not like its what makes the race a "required pick", but then neither is Nord for its cold resistance and immunity.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »People thinking stamina is "useless", please try to do vMoS HM without rolling. Or sprinting, blocking or interrupting, if you want an extra bit of spice. But I assure you just doing it without rolling will suffice.
No one ever said you don't need to roll. You just don't need to spam it, not that this passive lets you spam it (it's just 215 stamina regen). Mechanics are spaced out far apart enough in dungeons and trials that you don't need anything more than base stamina regen. I've never once thought to myself while doing vMoS "I wish I had more stamina". And again, if I ever ran into a scenario where I needed more stamina, 215 stamina regen wouldn't alleviate that (it's not an immediate injection of stamina when you run out, it's just regen).
So you dont run tristat pots on the final boss HM to get extra stam regen on your mag build, like pretty much everyone else?
No. Why would you need tri-pots for any PvE fight?
In fact, here is a video of the fight. Notice how his stamina never drops below 40%, on a magicka character?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=103&v=jQHtrEurgko
The only time you will run out of stamina is if your finger is glued to the sprint key.
Lies, 2:21 to 2:30 his stamina is constantly dropping below the roll threshold. 4:21 - 4:28, any roll check or even just a aggro pull at that point while on the land phase would have been a death. 4:48 - 5:02. stamina too low, mechanic check at that point would be a death.
You link a video of a group of top tier players completing the challenge, but at plenty of occasions bad luck would have been a wipe. Bad luck that could be mitigated by more stamina regen. Particularly at 4:21, he could not roll, a single aggro pull or dodge check would have killed him.
There are also a lot of party deaths to the rolling mechanic, almost like that specific mechanic is hard to do without stamina :thinking:
Okay, so his stamina does drop below the threshold a few times (I just quickly clicked through the video). That is irrelevant as the mechanics are far apart enough that you have plenty of time to regenerate your stamina.
Again, I would like to take your attention to the numerous party deaths to the rolling mechanic. And the moment at 4:21 where a heavy attack from a boss would be and would have been a death as a result of insufficient stamina.
Also it goes without saying that this is what would appear to be the last of many attempts, which we can only assume would have been made easier by using more appropriate gear, as he says at the end of the video. Maybe something that makes movement and rolling easier. hm.
This is just one fight in the game, but in any game a tiny bit of extra stamina WILL make surviving just a little easier. It will be less noticeable for good players, but then in a good group, where health of all party members stays well within a safe range, then other utility passives become useless too. What was unfair was how High Elves had more active passives than anyone else, and so in the high end when utility passives usefullness dropped, high elves where swimming in magica, damage AND magica regen.Edited by validifyedneb18_ESO on February 22, 2019 5:13AMEU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »It's supposed to be utility. Not something you use to get more damage or be unquestionably better than everyone else at anything in-particular. Everyone can make good use of extra stamina if they want to, its not like its what makes the race a "required pick", but then neither is Nord for its cold resistance and immunity.
Ok, clearly you're another person who doesn't read and doesn't understand what's being talked about here. Nobody has asked for a damage increase. Altmer damage is statistically near-identical to other races, and there's a fair trade-off between the pace advantage of the sustain race (Breton) and the burst advantage of the damage races (Altmer and Dunmer). Since 4.3.2, the mag DPS imbalance has only been about utility, not damage. Altmer utility is extremely niche, while Bretons get universal Spell Resistance at all times and Dunmer have hybrid capabilities, fire resistance, and burn immunity. That means Breton and Dunmer utility functions with 100% uptime in all types of game content, while Altmer have their racial benefits only if particular conditions are met, and even then the benefits aren't even that good! Same DPS, but we get a tiny trickle of stam and a conditional defensive buff with wildly variable uptime depending on class and build? Too niche, man. It pushes Altmer into a very limited box. This is really bad for the game.0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I mean, why should High Elves have a monopoly on the worst utility passive in the game?
When you're conducting the post-mortem on Wrathstone, trying to explain the sudden wave of unsubs, this is why: absolutely awful decisions that should've never made it to PTS in the first place look like they're actually going to make it to live servers. If 4.3.4 is the end, then Wrathstone racial changes are an abject failure that cast the company's intentions in the worst possible light.
Orc - Orc is stupidly OP, with 2k Max Stam, 258 WD, 1k Health, and several universally useful utility passives. Completely overshadows Redguard.
Altmer - Altmer's Magicka generalist identity is destroyed by niche passives. All other mag races pull nearly identical DPS, but all of them offer superior universal utility. Off-stat regen is trash, and does not fairly compensate for what was taken away. "Increased chance to apply status effects" or a dozen other clearly superior alternatives have been suggested. The only explanation for refusing to offer better utility is an actual dev intent to drive players away from Altmer characters, a change that would give many of them actual utility with no statistical change in DPS.
Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess that's one way of ending the Murkmire era, but damn though. Kinda brutal.
Bosmer - Penetration after dodge roll is awkward and pointless. Penetration based on range is just one of 1000 obvious alternatives that would actually suit the archer playstyle better. The stealth bonus nerf is senseless and should be reverted.
Frankly, these changes should not go live. If there's anything that can be done internally to remedy this cluster$#%^ before launch it is in the company's best interests to do it. I've already unsubbed and I'm sure many, many more will follow when they find out that >3 characters are affected and you want to charge people money if they want to fix >3 characters you've messed up. There's no surprise here that video games have to make updates and change things. Cool. But it is an unethical business practice to change things in such a way that intentionally dissatisfies customers so that you can profit on selling them fixes. It is absolutely transparent that this is happening here. All mag DPS parse nearly identical, yet you gimped the most popular Magicka DD race with no utility in PvE content to sell race change tokens. And there's a similar situation for Argonian tanks and Redguard DPS. You didn't just create equal alternatives - you created superior alternatives and nerfed the old meta. Players are smart enough to see that and are not going to keep paying your bills. I don't blame anyone in particular because I have no idea what internal factors cause companies to do stupid things like this, but somebody needs to take note and fix it. Many existing characters are being disadvantaged in this update in ways that are easily avoidable if ZOS would only put a little effort into ensuring that our concerns are given a serious look before going live.
Its universally known that ZOs is against AD alliance, despite it never won a alliance war not even in third place. Moreover AD is third in all alliance wars by a distant margin. Its not because of skill. ZOs intentionally want to lose by garbage balance. You are wasting your time. They very well know its not balanced and completely biased towards DC. EP is more or less balanced. They will simply laugh at your angry post behind the back. Just think for a minute. Even a complete noob in this game can figure out in few seconds.
What rock do you live under I’ve seen ad win multiple back to back campaigns on all 3 platforms
I have seen only EP winning all alliance wars by huge margin in all 3 platforms. They are not winning just steam rolling the map. Atleast streamers keep them at bay, still loses the campaign. Only time AD won a campaign is post summer-set that too only 1 time for past 2 years. Just release the stats. Any EP keep is like hitting bee hive.Edited by Priyasekarssk on February 22, 2019 5:50AM0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »It's supposed to be utility. Not something you use to get more damage or be unquestionably better than everyone else at anything in-particular. Everyone can make good use of extra stamina if they want to, its not like its what makes the race a "required pick", but then neither is Nord for its cold resistance and immunity.
Ok, clearly you're another person who doesn't read and doesn't understand what's being talked about here. Nobody has asked for a damage increase. Altmer damage is statistically near-identical to other races, and there's a fair trade-off between the pace advantage of the sustain race (Breton) and the burst advantage of the damage races (Altmer and Dunmer). Since 4.3.2, the mag DPS imbalance has only been about utility, not damage. Altmer utility is extremely niche, while Bretons get universal Spell Resistance at all times and Dunmer have hybrid capabilities, fire resistance, and burn immunity. That means Breton and Dunmer utility functions with 100% uptime in all types of game content, while Altmer have their racial benefits only if particular conditions are met, and even then the benefits aren't even that good! Same DPS, but we get a tiny trickle of stam and a conditional defensive buff with wildly variable uptime depending on class and build? Too niche, man. It pushes Altmer into a very limited box. This is really bad for the game.
Dps is near identical so how is changing utility gonna effect anything mind you read all of spell recharge also yes u get the off stat regen on using a class skill but 5% damage mitigation on a cast time or channel and yes it’s proven heavy attacks as well 5% flat damage mitigation vs spell resistance which only mitigates magicka damage these altmer needs a change posts are not constructive in any way it’s arguing in circles. As the racials are now race is a fairly balanced factor in the game. Wut is this mag dps imbalance you speak of when you yourself said about Breton and altmer being about the sameEdited by BattleAxe on February 22, 2019 6:02AM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Its has nothing to do with Templar, that's just what i happen to have an Altmer on.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dps is near identical so how is changing utility gonna effect anything
What is so difficult for you people to understand?
Breton
Burst: Medium
Sustain: High
DPS: Statistically average
Utility: Universal. Magic Resistance with 100% uptime.
Dunmer
Burst: High
Sustain: Low
DPS: Statistically average
Utility: Universal. Hybrid capabilities and Flame Resistance with 100% uptime. Burn immunity. (Mitigates the drawbacks of vamp, if taken.)
Altmer
Burst: High
Sustain: Low
DPS: Statistically average
Utility: Niche. 100% useless in most conditions, mildly useful in limited conditions (and even then, easily obtainable in other ways for people who need it). 5% defense with highly class-dependent variable uptime.
Do you really not understand the problem here? I can do the same thing for Redguard and Argonian, the other meta races who have been intentionally made objectively inferior to the competition. The most popular races were nerfed not to the point of being average, but to the point of being objectively inferior to the competition. That's an extremely crappy thing for a game developer to do, when nerfing to average would've accomplished all legitimate dev goals just fine. Except one thing: fair balance wouldn't pressure people into buying race changes, which is what they clearly want and they're over-nerfing the old meta to get it.Edited by Gnortranermara on February 22, 2019 2:42PM3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »And once again, for some reason, you people inexplicably forget that there are numerous ways to get stamina in the rare circumstances that you need it without gimping everyone else all the time in everything else that they do.
This can be said about Magicka or everything else that would be the replacement for Stamina, e.g. your argument is pointless.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Do you really not understand the problem here? I can do the same thing for Redguard and Argonian, the other meta races who have been intentionally made objectively inferior to the competition. The most popular races were nerfed not to the point of being average, but to the point of being objectively inferior to the competition. That's an extremely crappy thing for a game developer to do, when nerfing to average would've accomplished all legitimate dev goals just fine. Except one thing: fair balance wouldn't pressure people into buying race changes, which is what they clearly want and they're over-nerfing the old meta to get it.
This is such an exaggerated statement. Were talking about differences that are <0.5-1% when it comes to that. And utility passives are just that, something you cannot really measure.
They're overnerfing nothing. They're not changing the meta. Being inferior by a statistical insignificant (your words) margin means no difference in the end.
If this issue wouldn't have been blown up in a completely unreasonable way ZOS maybe would have listened. But spicing up the discussion with the cash grab argument just makes this whole thing silly, especially when we take into account how small the problem really is.Edited by Seraphayel on February 22, 2019 7:12AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »But spicing up the discussion with the cash grab argument just makes this whole thing silly, especially when we take into account how small the problem really is.
Of course it's a cash grab. How can you be this willfully blind? They wouldn't be pulling the 50% off PR stunt if they didn't know that these changes would pressure people to buy tokens. A company that sells race change tokens nerfing races with the objective of pressuring race changes is the gold standard definition of a cash grab.1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »But spicing up the discussion with the cash grab argument just makes this whole thing silly, especially when we take into account how small the problem really is.
Of course it's a cash grab. How can you be this willfully blind? They wouldn't be pulling the 50% off PR stunt if they didn't know that these changes would pressure people to buy tokens. A company that sells race change tokens nerfing races with the objective of pressuring race changes is the gold standard definition of a cash grab.
We're talking about differences in 0.5-2% regions, if at all. Everybody who feels pressured by those minimal, negligible and meaningless differences in performance shouldn't be worried by race changes, they've got another kind of problem right there.
I agree that discounting race change tokens before the first round of patch notes were up was shoddy. That's where I'm with you. But the changes are so small that it invalidates the cash grab argument entirely especially when they give you three free race changes on top of that (I don't need one of them btw).Edited by Seraphayel on February 22, 2019 8:54AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »We're talking about differences in 0.5-2% regions, if at all.
No, we're not. Your opinions would really be more credible if you bothered reading the things you are responding to. Communication doesn't work when you have no intentions of actually comprehending the subject or what other people are saying. It has been clearly established that we're talking about differences in utility, not DPS. This isn't about quantitative differences right now, but qualitative ones.Seraphayel wrote: »But the changes are so small that it invalidates the cash grab argument entirely especially when they give you three free race changes on top of that (I don't need one of them btw).
For you and the things you care about and the way you play the game, maybe. Speak for yourself. ZOS has other customers, and your opinions about things you've flatly said that you don't even care about are not relevant to our purchase decisions. I don't understand why you insist on interjecting into every single thread where people are trying to tell the company their completely reasonable and justified concerns (which you demonstrably don't even bother understanding before attempting to invalidate them). We get it! You don't care. Continually telling people how hard you don't care about the same things they do isn't making us care any less. It isn't changing our message to the company.Edited by Gnortranermara on February 22, 2019 10:42AM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »We're talking about differences in 0.5-2% regions, if at all.
No, we're not. Your opinions would really be more credible if you bothered reading the things you are responding to. Communication doesn't work when you have no intentions of actually comprehending the subject or what other people are saying. It has been clearly established that we're talking about differences in utility, not DPS. This isn't about quantitative differences right now, but qualitative ones.
For you and the things you care about and the way you play the game, maybe. Speak for yourself. ZOS has other customers, and your opinions about things you've flatly said that you don't even care about are not relevant to our purchase decisions. I don't understand why you insist on interjecting into every single thread where people are trying to tell the company their completely reasonable and justified concerns (which you demonstrably don't even bother understanding before attempting to invalidate them). We get it! You don't care. Continually telling people how hard you don't care about the same things they do isn't making us care any less. It isn't changing our message to the company.
You cannot measure differences in utility.
And I am interjecting because your arguments are just not applicable in most cases. And before people create hysteria in the forums like you and others do for weeks now I'd like to interfere because it's just one side of the medal that doesn't even reflect a majority of the players. We're down to an absurd amount of threads and comments about the same "issues" again and again and again and again. I'm happy when this patch goes live next week, the forums can move on from this topic and all the complaining was in vain.Edited by Seraphayel on February 22, 2019 10:52AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »We're down to an absurd amount of threads and comments about the same "issues" again and again and again and again.
Yes, and 80% of those posts are people responding to you telling us how hard you don't care again. You don't seem to get that it's not about you and your preferences. This game has several segments of players with interests in everything from min-maxing, lore, character aesthetics, housing, Alliance War, guild themes, and so on. Other people care about different game aspects than you do. If you don't, yippie, man, move along. The health of the game requires input from all sectors. ZOS needs to know that there is a very reasonable, very plausible perception among customers that these racial changes look like nerfing for profit. They need to know how they appear to customers. They'll decide whether to fix that or not, and we'll decide whether to continue doing business with them or not.
I think they're going to lose a lot of players to Anthem if they don't slow down and take these completely reasonable concerns more seriously. If these changes go live in this state, any and all race changes should be free for at least two weeks. That wouldn't fix the terrible job they did gorking half of the races in the game, but at least they couldn't profit from a job so poorly done. You don't pay the gardener more money if he comes in and chops up all your trees, then offers to give you three "free trees" and sell you more newer, better ones at 50% off. This move to digital "stuff" has really distorted our culture's understanding of basic human decency.0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Give High elf health then? I'd be down with that. My main is an Altmer. 1k health would be nice instead of spell recharge and since they are the longest lived race it kinda fits lorewise lol... I mean anything they change is a buff but if it stays as is I'll have to adapt or change. Oh well. The Stam sustain has use in PvP on a wide variety of builds. 1k health would help in pve a heap though keep that health bar high enough when using clockwork. So it'd allow for Regen to be introduced and be relatively safer. But whatevs2 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »Priyasekarssk wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I mean, why should High Elves have a monopoly on the worst utility passive in the game?
When you're conducting the post-mortem on Wrathstone, trying to explain the sudden wave of unsubs, this is why: absolutely awful decisions that should've never made it to PTS in the first place look like they're actually going to make it to live servers. If 4.3.4 is the end, then Wrathstone racial changes are an abject failure that cast the company's intentions in the worst possible light.
Orc - Orc is stupidly OP, with 2k Max Stam, 258 WD, 1k Health, and several universally useful utility passives. Completely overshadows Redguard.
Altmer - Altmer's Magicka generalist identity is destroyed by niche passives. All other mag races pull nearly identical DPS, but all of them offer superior universal utility. Off-stat regen is trash, and does not fairly compensate for what was taken away. "Increased chance to apply status effects" or a dozen other clearly superior alternatives have been suggested. The only explanation for refusing to offer better utility is an actual dev intent to drive players away from Altmer characters, a change that would give many of them actual utility with no statistical change in DPS.
Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess that's one way of ending the Murkmire era, but damn though. Kinda brutal.
Bosmer - Penetration after dodge roll is awkward and pointless. Penetration based on range is just one of 1000 obvious alternatives that would actually suit the archer playstyle better. The stealth bonus nerf is senseless and should be reverted.
Frankly, these changes should not go live. If there's anything that can be done internally to remedy this cluster$#%^ before launch it is in the company's best interests to do it. I've already unsubbed and I'm sure many, many more will follow when they find out that >3 characters are affected and you want to charge people money if they want to fix >3 characters you've messed up. There's no surprise here that video games have to make updates and change things. Cool. But it is an unethical business practice to change things in such a way that intentionally dissatisfies customers so that you can profit on selling them fixes. It is absolutely transparent that this is happening here. All mag DPS parse nearly identical, yet you gimped the most popular Magicka DD race with no utility in PvE content to sell race change tokens. And there's a similar situation for Argonian tanks and Redguard DPS. You didn't just create equal alternatives - you created superior alternatives and nerfed the old meta. Players are smart enough to see that and are not going to keep paying your bills. I don't blame anyone in particular because I have no idea what internal factors cause companies to do stupid things like this, but somebody needs to take note and fix it. Many existing characters are being disadvantaged in this update in ways that are easily avoidable if ZOS would only put a little effort into ensuring that our concerns are given a serious look before going live.
Its universally known that ZOs is against AD alliance, despite it never won a alliance war not even in third place. Moreover AD is third in all alliance wars by a distant margin. Its not because of skill. ZOs intentionally want to lose by garbage balance. You are wasting your time. They very well know its not balanced and completely biased towards DC. EP is more or less balanced. They will simply laugh at your angry post behind the back. Just think for a minute. Even a complete noob in this game can figure out in few seconds.
What rock do you live under I’ve seen ad win multiple back to back campaigns on all 3 platformsSidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »But spicing up the discussion with the cash grab argument just makes this whole thing silly, especially when we take into account how small the problem really is.
Of course it's a cash grab. How can you be this willfully blind? They wouldn't be pulling the 50% off PR stunt if they didn't know that these changes would pressure people to buy tokens. A company that sells race change tokens nerfing races with the objective of pressuring race changes is the gold standard definition of a cash grab.
Cash grab but your getting 3 free race changes if you need more than that then your part of why races were changed as they are now to bring lesser used races up to parEdited by BattleAxe on February 22, 2019 2:20PM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I think they're going to lose a lot of players to Anthem if they don't slow down and take these completely reasonable concerns more seriously. If these changes go live in this state, any and all race changes should be free for at least two weeks. That wouldn't fix the terrible job they did gorking half of the races in the game, but at least they couldn't profit from a job so poorly done.
Anthem is already considered a bigger flop than Mass Effect Andromeda (go over player reactions and critics), I doubt that Anthem lasts longer than some weeks. In fact I believe Anthem will be the final nail in the coffin for BioWare and the reason why EA will close that studio down entirely. But that's another story not belonging to this forum.
The problem is, you don't seem to recognize how absurd your postulations are (two weeks of free race changes - lol). I am someone who fervently criticizes ZOS when they deserve it. And I even agree on that the racial changes could have been done better. But the vitriol ZOS gets from a small amount of players in the forums because of the racial changes is (imho) unjustified. That's why I keep coming back to these threads and comments.Edited by Seraphayel on February 22, 2019 1:39PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cash grab but your getting 3 free race changes if you need more than that then your part of why races were changed as they are now to bring lesser used races up to par
False. These race changes made "lesser used races" objectively superior to old meta races, by over-nerfing 2/3 of the old meta races and severely over-buffing the main competitor to the only one that didn't get fully nerf-hammered. That's not what "up to par" means. That's not balance. This has been fully demonstrated exhaustively on these forums by dozens of different people and your choice to keep stubbornly pretending otherwise isn't going to change the facts. It's true, and people know it whether you want them to or not. Literally half of the races in this game are currently gorked and need utility and QoL adjustments before release to be "on par".Edited by Gnortranermara on February 22, 2019 2:36PM0 -
ab_boSoul ShrivenStop going on like its the end of the world, you are just a selfish little kid crying all over forums making out everyone will quit.
Get real, overall the changes ZOS has made to races have been great.3 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Cash grab but your getting 3 free race changes if you need more than that then your part of why races were changed as they are now to bring lesser used races up to par
False. These race changes made "lesser used races" objectively superior to old meta races, by over-nerfing 2/3 of the old meta races and severely over-buffing the main competitor to the only one that didn't get fully nerf-hammered. That's not what "up to par" means. That's not balance. This has been fully demonstrated exhaustively on these forums by dozens of different people and your choice to keep stubbornly pretending otherwise isn't going to change the facts. It's true, and people know it whether you want them to or not. Literally half of the races in this game are currently gorked and need utility and QoL adjustments before release to be "on par".
As it stands are races dps parsing within % of each other0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »We're down to an absurd amount of threads and comments about the same "issues" again and again and again and again.
Yes, and 80% of those posts are people responding to you telling us how hard you don't care again. You don't seem to get that it's not about you and your preferences. This game has several segments of players with interests in everything from min-maxing, lore, character aesthetics, housing, Alliance War, guild themes, and so on. Other people care about different game aspects than you do. If you don't, yippie, man, move along. The health of the game requires input from all sectors. ZOS needs to know that there is a very reasonable, very plausible perception among customers that these racial changes look like nerfing for profit. They need to know how they appear to customers. They'll decide whether to fix that or not, and we'll decide whether to continue doing business with them or not.
I think they're going to lose a lot of players to Anthem if they don't slow down and take these completely reasonable concerns more seriously. If these changes go live in this state, any and all race changes should be free for at least two weeks. That wouldn't fix the terrible job they did gorking half of the races in the game, but at least they couldn't profit from a job so poorly done. You don't pay the gardener more money if he comes in and chops up all your trees, then offers to give you three "free trees" and sell you more newer, better ones at 50% off. This move to digital "stuff" has really distorted our culture's understanding of basic human decency.
It’s funny your 80% of those posts are same 5-6 players not a large player base. They need to know how they appear to customers. Ok any player heavily invested in the game is gonna stay and adapt to these changes. Meta changes all the time are you running the exact same meta sets you ran when you started this game I doubt it. The nature of having a meta is understanding that it will eventually change with new sets introduced new skills added or with this patch race passive changes. This is no cash grab once you understand the meta will inevitably change0 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stop going on like its the end of the world, you are just a selfish little kid crying all over forums making out everyone will quit.
Get real, overall the changes ZOS has made to races have been great.
Wrong. I am a scientist well-trained in experimental and statistical methods, an amateur game developer and modder, and a long-time TES and ESO player. I am well-qualified to assess these changes, and I'm here to make sure the company knows that in their current condition they are unfit for live servers. I'm not going to debate that with yet another forum troll who can't bother reading what's wrong in the first place or stating a single coherent counter-point. Not once in two weeks of trying have you, or any of your fellow trolls, stated a single defense of these changes that is factual and relevant. They're not great, and the company is going to regret the outcome if they foolishly and stubbornly ignore dozens of threads of player feedback on half the races in the game currently gorked.Edited by Gnortranermara on February 22, 2019 3:35PM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Armchair developer vs. ZOS developers - I thought we already reached the peak of absurdity but I've been proven wrong.
Well, at least it's entertaining.Edited by Seraphayel on February 22, 2019 3:41PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0
