Replace Orc Health with Magicka Recovery

Gnortranermara

I mean, why should High Elves have a monopoly on the worst utility passive in the game?

When you're conducting the post-mortem on Wrathstone, trying to explain the sudden wave of unsubs, this is why: absolutely awful decisions that should've never made it to PTS in the first place look like they're actually going to make it to live servers. If 4.3.4 is the end, then Wrathstone racial changes are an abject failure that cast the company's intentions in the worst possible light.

Orc - Orc is stupidly OP, with 2k Max Stam, 258 WD, 1k Health, and several universally useful utility passives. Completely overshadows Redguard.
Altmer - Altmer's Magicka generalist identity is destroyed by niche passives. All other mag races pull nearly identical DPS, but all of them offer superior universal utility. Off-stat regen is trash, and does not fairly compensate for what was taken away. "Increased chance to apply status effects" or a dozen other clearly superior alternatives have been suggested. The only explanation for refusing to offer better utility is an actual dev intent to drive players away from Altmer characters, a change that would give many of them actual utility with no statistical change in DPS.
Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess that's one way of ending the Murkmire era, but damn though. Kinda brutal.
Bosmer - Penetration after dodge roll is awkward and pointless. Penetration based on range is just one of 1000 obvious alternatives that would actually suit the archer playstyle better. The stealth bonus nerf is senseless and should be reverted.

Frankly, these changes should not go live. If there's anything that can be done internally to remedy this cluster$#%^ before launch it is in the company's best interests to do it. I've already unsubbed and I'm sure many, many more will follow when they find out that >3 characters are affected and you want to charge people money if they want to fix >3 characters you've messed up. There's no surprise here that video games have to make updates and change things. Cool. But it is an unethical business practice to change things in such a way that intentionally dissatisfies customers so that you can profit on selling them fixes. It is absolutely transparent that this is happening here. All mag DPS parse nearly identical, yet you gimped the most popular Magicka DD race with no utility in PvE content to sell race change tokens. And there's a similar situation for Argonian tanks and Redguard DPS. You didn't just create equal alternatives - you created superior alternatives and nerfed the old meta. Players are smart enough to see that and are not going to keep paying your bills. I don't blame anyone in particular because I have no idea what internal factors cause companies to do stupid things like this, but somebody needs to take note and fix it. Many existing characters are being disadvantaged in this update in ways that are easily avoidable if ZOS would only put a little effort into ensuring that our concerns are given a serious look before going live.

Twohothardware

Or just get rid of the dumb Stamina regen passive they've now given High Elf and change it to something that actually makes sense on a Magicka driven Race.

Razorback174

"Do you guys not have phones?"

"Do you guys not use stam?"

ccmedaddy

Razorback174 wrote: »

"Do you guys not have phones?"

"Do you guys not use stam?"

According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."

I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?

Gnortranermara

ccmedaddy wrote: »

According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."

I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?

Uh, yeah, actually, why does that surprise you? Obviously, sprint speed and cost reduction is universally useful on a stam toon like an Orc. No, stam regen is not universally useful on a magicka character.

Here's a simple test: if it was a gear set bonus, would I choose to equip it over the alternatives? Absolutely any stam toon could plausibly say "yes" to sprint speed and cost reduction. Only certain niche mag toons would plausibly say the same about stam regen.

And you know what? I would take that trade. Sprint speed is universally useful for mag, too.

Razorback174

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

"Do you guys not have phones?"

"Do you guys not use stam?"

According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."

I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?

Sorry to say, but I fully agree with OP here. Stamina regen has no place in most PvE content for a magic based race.

ZoS quoted they wanted Orc and Altmer to be the "damage classes" and virtual magic and stam copies of one another. Why then is Altmer saddled with a passive that is not even marginally useful and entirely lore-breaking? Meanwhile, Orcs get all the damage bonus, the max stat bonus, and an insanely useful "utility" passive that makes them the most overpowered stam race in the game now?

Hell, I'd just take a max health bonus over the **** they're passing off as Spell Recharge at this point.

sneakymitchell

Health is still fine. Helps self heals out more.
Just add magic regen or something.

Banana

Id rather have the health

BattleAxe

All this complaining over one passive when if u look at the larger picture the high elf passive if it stayed like it was at first would have made altmer too far ahead of all other races so now it’s a utility passive and you even have 5% damage mitigation yes sounds marginal but considering a lot of mag toons have low resistance 5% becomes substantially better and with heavy attacks counting as a way to proc it high elf is actually in a fairly strong position but hey let’s focus one the flower while missing the garden

Seraphayel

These threads created by Altmer players have really become cringeworthy and this one might be one of the worst.

- entitled attitude (they must offer stuff that satisfies me!)

- cash grab argument

- tin foil hat theories

- "I unsubbed!"

- "Altmer just slightly better than the other Magicka races, must be superior!"

- "muh others have nicer racials, how unfair!"

- bringing up Bosmer and Argonian to get support from their players although it's all about Altmer in the end

BattleAxe

Seraphayel wrote: »

These threads created by Altmer players have really become cringeworthy.

So focused on one small aspect without suggesting a viable change tht won’t put altmer right back on the mag dps pedestal

Olupajmibanan

Seraphayel wrote: »

These threads created by Altmer players have really become cringeworthy and this one might be one of the worst.

- entitled attitude (they must offer stuff that satisfies me!)

- cash grab argument

- tin foil hat theories

- "I unsubbed!"

- "Altmer just slightly better than the other Magicka races, must be superior!"

- "muh others have nicer racials, how unfair!"

- bringing up Bosmer and Argonian to get support from their players although it's all about Altmer in the end

While, I mostly agree with your reaction, I am convinced that whole racial balance update is a cash grab (despite three free tokens). After all, it's how gaming industry works nowadays.

If this is how ZoS decided racials will be (and calculated that it will possibly bring the most profit), no whining, crying or screaming is going to change a single racial. I got over it, you should guys too.

Xsorus

My Altmer Magicka Templar is going to use that stamina passive....Because i'm not an idiot.

Gnortranermara

Seraphayel wrote: »

These threads created by Altmer players have really become cringeworthy and this one might be one of the worst.

- entitled attitude (they must offer stuff that satisfies me!)

- cash grab argument

- tin foil hat theories

- "I unsubbed!"

- "Altmer just slightly better than the other Magicka races, must be superior!"

- "muh others have nicer racials, how unfair!"

- bringing up Bosmer and Argonian to get support from their players although it's all about Altmer in the end

Maybe you should stop responding to me from now on if all you can do is misrepresent my posts and make false assumptions and accusations. Just stop. It is not "entitlement" to expect decent business ethics from any kind of company. Game companies should be making their money from creating content, not nerfing for profit. This is a terrible business practice and yes, customers are "entitled" to expect better than that.

Siohwenoeht

Xsorus wrote: »

My Altmer Magicka Templar is going to use that stamina passive....Because i'm not an idiot.

Careful, we don't want everyone to know about that...

Vapirko

PvE Altmers are losing it, PvP Altmers are quietly keeping their heads down hoping this whole thing blows over, but either way they’re still in a great spot.

Also magicka recovery is useless in PvP for Orcs, the lowest resource return is great for PvP Altmers. Just like the Orc heal is useless all around and the sprint cost reduction is unless in PvE and the sprint speed is just flavor in PvE.

If people are losing their minds over racial balances I think we’re in for quite a year. Just wait till CP changes come in.

Gnortranermara

Vapirko wrote: »

PvE Altmers are losing it, PvP Altmers are quietly keeping their heads down hoping this whole thing blows over, but either way they’re still in a great spot.

Also magicka recovery is useless in PvP for Orcs, the lowest resource return is great for PvP Altmers. Just like the Orc heal is useless all around and the sprint cost reduction is unless in PvE and the sprint speed is just flavor in PvE.

If people are losing their minds over racial balances I think we’re in for quite a year. Just wait till CP changes come in.

Nah. CP doesn't cost cash to change. Nor does it affect anything as fundamental as character aesthetics.

Vapirko

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

PvE Altmers are losing it, PvP Altmers are quietly keeping their heads down hoping this whole thing blows over, but either way they’re still in a great spot.

Also magicka recovery is useless in PvP for Orcs, the lowest resource return is great for PvP Altmers. Just like the Orc heal is useless all around and the sprint cost reduction is unless in PvE and the sprint speed is just flavor in PvE.

If people are losing their minds over racial balances I think we’re in for quite a year. Just wait till CP changes come in.

Nah. CP doesn't cost cash to change. Nor does it affect anything as fundamental as character aesthetics.

No one except maybe the top like 1% of DPS in the game will be required to change their race. No race is being nerfed that hard. I do understand why people are losing it in theory, but very little is going to change for most people and again, aside from the top percent of DPS roles everyone else will do fine with the races they currently have.

Ranger209

The Altmer passive is a stealth sorc nerf

Gnortranermara

Vapirko wrote: »

No one except maybe the top like 1% of DPS in the game will be required to change their race. No race is being nerfed that hard. I do understand why people are losing it in theory, but very little is going to change for most people and again, aside from the top percent of DPS roles everyone else will do fine with the races they currently have.

Man, I'm just saying they should try to soften the blow a little. If mag regen had us too far ahead of the pack, fine, but off-stat regen is the worst possible passive in this game. That's an incredibly niche thing to need, and even if you did need it you'd need more than this and other hybrid stats to be worth it.

rabidmyers

Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess

^
except for being the bestest coolest master race of course

Tasear

BattleAxe wrote: »

All this complaining over one passive when if u look at the larger picture the high elf passive if it stayed like it was at first would have made altmer too far ahead of all other races so now it’s a utility passive and you even have 5% damage mitigation yes sounds marginal but considering a lot of mag toons have low resistance 5% becomes substantially better and with heavy attacks counting as a way to proc it high elf is actually in a fairly strong position but hey let’s focus one the flower while missing the garden

It's about lore for them.

BattleAxe

Tasear wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

All this complaining over one passive when if u look at the larger picture the high elf passive if it stayed like it was at first would have made altmer too far ahead of all other races so now it’s a utility passive and you even have 5% damage mitigation yes sounds marginal but considering a lot of mag toons have low resistance 5% becomes substantially better and with heavy attacks counting as a way to proc it high elf is actually in a fairly strong position but hey let’s focus one the flower while missing the garden

It's about lore for them.

Not targeting you specifically but quoting you becuz the masses don’t realize everyone is lucky to have racials at all zos could go simple and take all racials away except something for flavor such as it was for previous elder scrolls games but go ahead everyone focus on that flower and forget the garden

Seraphayel

- useless comment now -

(as useless as Spell recharge)

Seraphayel

Tasear wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

All this complaining over one passive when if u look at the larger picture the high elf passive if it stayed like it was at first would have made altmer too far ahead of all other races so now it’s a utility passive and you even have 5% damage mitigation yes sounds marginal but considering a lot of mag toons have low resistance 5% becomes substantially better and with heavy attacks counting as a way to proc it high elf is actually in a fairly strong position but hey let’s focus one the flower while missing the garden

It's about lore for them.

For Bosmer players? Yes.

For Altmer players? No. It's neither pro nor contra lore to give Altmer Stamina return.

BattleAxe

Seraphayel wrote: »

Not sure if everyone is lucky to have facials...

Sorry typed to quick hit the f instead of r I fixed it thank u lol but hey got a good laugh out of it

Seraphayel

BattleAxe wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Not sure if everyone is lucky to have facials...

Sorry typed to quick hit the f instead of r I fixed it thank u lol but hey got a good laugh out of it

Indeed.

DarkPicture

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

"Do you guys not have phones?"

"Do you guys not use stam?"

According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."

I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?

no, if u would change this passiv, orc will get magicka because it's the lower ressource

susmitds

Do you realize that 200 effective Magicka Regen is better than 200 effective Health Regen? Especially for tanking, for healing, for general PvP?

MLGProPlayer

susmitds wrote: »

Do you realize that 200 effective Magicka Regen is better than 200 effective Health Regen? Especially for tanking, for healing, for general PvP?

Orc get 300 effective health regen, not 200. And they also get +1000 health. That is FAR more useful than +215 stamina regen. The +1000 health alone is huge as it almost completely covers the loss of health from using sustain food.

Beffagorn

Translation of OP's post:

I'm triggered that my race is not going to be the best of all after the rework, please ruin other races so i can not complaing about it for the next 20min. After those 20min have passed, i will immediatly make another thread complaining and asking to ruin another race that has the UNACCEPTABLE advantage of having 20 more DPS than me.

Serious Reply:

The parses and math have shown that the races are within an incredibly small margin of difference that most likely comes down to chance and player skill/error (Hint: Won't make a difference at all unless you're trying to get a World First aka won't make a difference for 99.99% of the playerbase).

Stop acting like the sky is falling, because it's not.