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Replace Orc Health with Magicka Recovery
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BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭I’m using an orc stam dk as one of my main 3 and I say yes take my sprint speed and give me that magicka return on class skill will actually help my stam sustain thanks to helping hands dk passive0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 6:42PM5 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.Argonian forever2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Translation of OP's post:
I'm triggered that my race is not going to be the best of all after the rework, please ruin other races so i can not complaing about it for the next 20min. After those 20min have passed, i will immediatly make another thread complaining and asking to ruin another race that has the UNACCEPTABLE advantage of having 20 more DPS than me.
Serious Reply:
The parses and math have shown that the races are within an incredibly small margin of difference that most likely comes down to chance and player skill/error (Hint: Won't make a difference at all unless you're trying to get a World First aka won't make a difference for 99.99% of the playerbase).
Stop acting like the sky is falling, because it's not.
Learn to read. I've been perfectly clear that parses are not my complaint. The balance between burst and sustain is a fair tradeoff separate from utility passives. My complaint is that the Magicka generalist class was nerfed into a Magicka niche class, ruining the existing racial identity and many existing characters. Breton, for example, has zero wasted passives and gets BOTH Max Mag and sustain passives (despite the bald hypocrisy of claiming that having both damage and sustain is why Altmer was nerfed in the first place). Every single bit of their passive budget is useful in all content. They put out the exact same DPS but have massive survivability and easy sustain advanatages while the Altmer gets undesirable niche passives that unnecessarily ruin existing characters. It's an easily avoidable negative impact on a massive chunk of players and the company should be ashamed of this abject failure to listen to reasonable player concerns.2 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Translation of OP's post:
I'm triggered that my race is not going to be the best of all after the rework, please ruin other races so i can not complaing about it for the next 20min. After those 20min have passed, i will immediatly make another thread complaining and asking to ruin another race that has the UNACCEPTABLE advantage of having 20 more DPS than me.
Serious Reply:
The parses and math have shown that the races are within an incredibly small margin of difference that most likely comes down to chance and player skill/error (Hint: Won't make a difference at all unless you're trying to get a World First aka won't make a difference for 99.99% of the playerbase).
Stop acting like the sky is falling, because it's not.
Learn to read. I've been perfectly clear that parses are not my complaint. The balance between burst and sustain is a fair tradeoff separate from utility passives. My complaint is that the Magicka generalist class was nerfed into a Magicka niche class, ruining the existing racial identity and many existing characters. Breton, for example, has zero wasted passives and gets BOTH Max Mag and sustain passives (despite the bald hypocrisy of claiming that having both damage and sustain is why Altmer was nerfed in the first place). Every single bit of their passive budget is useful in all content. They put out the exact same DPS but have massive survivability and easy sustain advanatages while the Altmer gets undesirable niche passives that unnecessarily ruin existing characters. It's an easily avoidable negative impact on a massive chunk of players and the company should be ashamed of this abject failure to listen to reasonable player concerns.
You are really gonna say altmers spell recharge is not useful in all content. Do you only walk thru a dungeon do you never block or dodge roll in pve? Do you never use a heavy attack?1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Translation of OP's post:
I'm triggered that my race is not going to be the best of all after the rework, please ruin other races so i can not complaing about it for the next 20min. After those 20min have passed, i will immediatly make another thread complaining and asking to ruin another race that has the UNACCEPTABLE advantage of having 20 more DPS than me.
Serious Reply:
The parses and math have shown that the races are within an incredibly small margin of difference that most likely comes down to chance and player skill/error (Hint: Won't make a difference at all unless you're trying to get a World First aka won't make a difference for 99.99% of the playerbase).
Stop acting like the sky is falling, because it's not.
Learn to read. I've been perfectly clear that parses are not my complaint. The balance between burst and sustain is a fair tradeoff separate from utility passives. My complaint is that the Magicka generalist class was nerfed into a Magicka niche class, ruining the existing racial identity and many existing characters. Breton, for example, has zero wasted passives and gets BOTH Max Mag and sustain passives (despite the bald hypocrisy of claiming that having both damage and sustain is why Altmer was nerfed in the first place). Every single bit of their passive budget is useful in all content. They put out the exact same DPS but have massive survivability and easy sustain advanatages while the Altmer gets undesirable niche passives that unnecessarily ruin existing characters. It's an easily avoidable negative impact on a massive chunk of players and the company should be ashamed of this abject failure to listen to reasonable player concerns.
You are really gonna say altmers spell recharge is not useful in all content. Do you only walk thru a dungeon do you never block or dodge roll in pve? Do you never use a heavy attack?
Heavy attacks have a 1 second cast. You use them a handful of times in a fight, at most. Let's say you use 5 heavy attacks in a 5 minute fight. That's 5 seconds of 5% damage mitigation. You also only receive a benefit from this if you are taking damage during those 5 seconds that you spend heavy attacking. How useful is that?
And 215 stamina regen won't let you spam block/dodge/break-free. You'll still need to conserve stamina for mechanics, which means you won't be playing any differently than you would without the regen.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 7:13PM1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 7:14PM2 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.
First it’s not just channeling its cast times and has been proven heavy attacking also procs it. Second melee character versus a mage who in general will be out of harms way. Is that not able to be comprehended0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.
First it’s not just channeling its cast times and has been proven heavy attacking also procs it. Second melee character versus a mage who in general will be out of harms way. Is that not able to be comprehended
How often do you heavy attack in a group fight?
See my post above: If you cast 5 heavy attacks during a 5 minute boss fight, you will proc the damage mitigation passive for 5 whole seconds. And if you didn't take damage during those 5 seconds, you didn't gain any benefit from it.
It's quite literally the most useless passive in the game (if you're not a templar).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 7:19PM2 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.Edited by Silver_Strider on February 21, 2019 7:42PMArgonian forever0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 7:48PM0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.
First it’s not just channeling its cast times and has been proven heavy attacking also procs it. Second melee character versus a mage who in general will be out of harms way. Is that not able to be comprehended
How often do you heavy attack in a group fight?
See my post above: If you cast 5 heavy attacks during a 5 minute boss fight, you will proc the damage mitigation passive for 5 whole seconds. And if you didn't take damage during those 5 seconds, you didn't gain any benefit from it.
It's quite literally the most useless passive in the game (if you're not a templar).
Correct me if I’m wrong I just read the passive again to be sure maybe I missed it but tht is 5 seconds 5 times that u might not have needed at all if u didn’t take damage cuz u are ranged but a melee character who is up close to a boss who at best gets about 300 health recovery and 1000 health who will more than likely take aoe damage that doesn’t balance out.
I think just about any player on an orc would gladly trade high elves the sprint and health for spell recharge as is. Idk 100% for sure but it’s very likely0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.
First it’s not just channeling its cast times and has been proven heavy attacking also procs it. Second melee character versus a mage who in general will be out of harms way. Is that not able to be comprehended
How often do you heavy attack in a group fight?
See my post above: If you cast 5 heavy attacks during a 5 minute boss fight, you will proc the damage mitigation passive for 5 whole seconds. And if you didn't take damage during those 5 seconds, you didn't gain any benefit from it.
It's quite literally the most useless passive in the game (if you're not a templar).
Correct me if I’m wrong I just read the passive again to be sure maybe I missed it but tht is 5 seconds 5 times that u might not have needed at all if u didn’t take damage cuz u are ranged but a melee character who is up close to a boss who at best gets about 300 health recovery and 1000 health who will more than likely take aoe damage that doesn’t balance out.
I think just about any player on an orc would gladly trade high elves the sprint and health for spell recharge as is. Idk 100% for sure but it’s very likely
Of course they would, but you're comparing the wrong passives.
The core passives are:
+1000 max health
+300 health regen
vs.
+215 stamina regen
The "fluff" passives are:
+12% sprint cost reduction
+10% movement speed
vs.
+5% damage reduction while channelingEdited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 7:53PM1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.
First it’s not just channeling its cast times and has been proven heavy attacking also procs it. Second melee character versus a mage who in general will be out of harms way. Is that not able to be comprehended
How often do you heavy attack in a group fight?
See my post above: If you cast 5 heavy attacks during a 5 minute boss fight, you will proc the damage mitigation passive for 5 whole seconds. And if you didn't take damage during those 5 seconds, you didn't gain any benefit from it.
It's quite literally the most useless passive in the game (if you're not a templar).
Correct me if I’m wrong I just read the passive again to be sure maybe I missed it but tht is 5 seconds 5 times that u might not have needed at all if u didn’t take damage cuz u are ranged but a melee character who is up close to a boss who at best gets about 300 health recovery and 1000 health who will more than likely take aoe damage that doesn’t balance out.
I think just about any player on an orc would gladly trade high elves the sprint and health for spell recharge as is. Idk 100% for sure but it’s very likely
Of course they would, but you're comparing the wrong passives.
The core passives are:
+1000 max health
+300 health regen
vs.
+215 stamina regen
The "fluff" passives are:
+12% sprint cost reduction
+10% movement speed
vs.
+5% damage reduction while channeling
Oh I see let’s changes the rules on balancing them out which I effectively did even said to give you more stam regen but I see you have to be right by these new standards I have to give you the win then. But let it be known I made my case proving people wrong and the rules had to be changed to keep with your narrative
If the spell recharge passive is so bad you just stated of course orcs would trade for it so again how do we wanna set the goal postEdited by BattleAxe on February 21, 2019 7:59PM0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.
I had thought to actually lower Breton's Max Magic down to 1750 just for this purpose but wasn't sure. Looking at it now, you are right that Breton would have a bit too much this iteration and would need the cost reduction lowered to 6% as well as maybe a small reduction to Max Magic from 2k down to 1750, while Spell Recharge went up to 600 Magic or Stamina. That should even things out more.
Altmer
2000 Magic
600 Magic or Stamina
179 Spell Damage
Breton
1750 Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
6% Cost Reduction
That should be better. Now if only ZOS would learn from our interaction.Edited by Silver_Strider on February 21, 2019 8:12PMArgonian forever1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.
I had thought to actually lower Breton's Max Magic down to 1750 just for this purpose but wasn't sure. Looking at it now, you are right that Breton would have a bit too much this iteration and would need the cost reduction lowered to 6% as well as maybe a small reduction to Max Magic from 2k down to 1750, while Spell Recharge went up to 600 Magic or Stamina. That should even things out more.
Altmer
2000 Magic
600 Magic or Stamina
179 Spell Damage
Breton
1750 Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
6% Cost Reduction
That should be better. Now if only ZOS would learn from our interaction.
Interesting proposal but since altmer will not get any kind of magicka sustain back allow me to offer up another proposal in its place leave Breton as is but grant altmer a 1-2 second cc immunity when using a class skill0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why even nerf Breton and buff Altmer when both are on par and this is backed up by several parses from different testers?Edited by Seraphayel on February 21, 2019 8:14PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.
I had thought to actually lower Breton's Max Magic down to 1750 just for this purpose but wasn't sure. Looking at it now, you are right that Breton would have a bit too much this iteration and would need the cost reduction lowered to 6% as well as maybe a small reduction to Max Magic from 2k down to 1750, while Spell Recharge went up to 600 Magic or Stamina. That should even things out more.
Altmer
2000 Magic
600 Magic or Stamina
179 Spell Damage
Breton
1750 Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
6% Cost Reduction
That should be better. Now if only ZOS would learn from our interaction.
Interesting proposal but since altmer will not get any kind of magicka sustain back allow me to offer up another proposal in its place leave Breton as is but grant altmer a 1-2 second cc immunity when using a class skill
With a CD of 30s and this could work maybe. CC immunity is incredibly strong in PvP. But then it's only useful for PvP and the discussion goes back and forth again. They should just keep everything as it is now because Magicka races are balanced very well. If they touch racials again the gap might widen.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.
First it’s not just channeling its cast times and has been proven heavy attacking also procs it. Second melee character versus a mage who in general will be out of harms way. Is that not able to be comprehended
How often do you heavy attack in a group fight?
See my post above: If you cast 5 heavy attacks during a 5 minute boss fight, you will proc the damage mitigation passive for 5 whole seconds. And if you didn't take damage during those 5 seconds, you didn't gain any benefit from it.
It's quite literally the most useless passive in the game (if you're not a templar).
Correct me if I’m wrong I just read the passive again to be sure maybe I missed it but tht is 5 seconds 5 times that u might not have needed at all if u didn’t take damage cuz u are ranged but a melee character who is up close to a boss who at best gets about 300 health recovery and 1000 health who will more than likely take aoe damage that doesn’t balance out.
I think just about any player on an orc would gladly trade high elves the sprint and health for spell recharge as is. Idk 100% for sure but it’s very likely
Of course they would, but you're comparing the wrong passives.
The core passives are:
+1000 max health
+300 health regen
vs.
+215 stamina regen
The "fluff" passives are:
+12% sprint cost reduction
+10% movement speed
vs.
+5% damage reduction while channeling
Oh I see let’s changes the rules on balancing them out which I effectively did even said to give you more stam regen but I see you have to be right by these new standards I have to give you the win then. But let it be known I made my case proving people wrong and the rules had to be changed to keep with your narrative
If the spell recharge passive is so bad you just stated of course orcs would trade for it so again how do we wanna set the goal post
You asked if orcs, a STAMINA race, would exchange their fluff passives (12% sprint cost reduction and 10% movement speed) for 215 STAMINA regen.
No *** they would.
Your question would be like asking Altmer if they would exchange their 5% damage reduction while channeling for 215 magicka regen. Who the *** wouldn't?Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 8:19PM1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.
I had thought to actually lower Breton's Max Magic down to 1750 just for this purpose but wasn't sure. Looking at it now, you are right that Breton would have a bit too much this iteration and would need the cost reduction lowered to 6% as well as maybe a small reduction to Max Magic from 2k down to 1750, while Spell Recharge went up to 600 Magic or Stamina. That should even things out more.
Altmer
2000 Magic
600 Magic or Stamina
179 Spell Damage
Breton
1750 Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
6% Cost Reduction
That should be better. Now if only ZOS would learn from our interaction.
Interesting proposal but since altmer will not get any kind of magicka sustain back allow me to offer up another proposal in its place leave Breton as is but grant altmer a 1-2 second cc immunity when using a class skill
With a CD of 30s and this could work maybe. CC immunity is incredibly strong in PvP. But then it's only useful for PvP and the discussion goes back and forth again. They should just keep everything as it is now because Magicka races are balanced very well. If they touch racials again the gap might widen.
I wasn’t considering a CD but yes this would also give altmer a lore friendly passive that granted more useful in pvp but is still universally useful0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.MLGProPlayer wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »The anger towards the current form of Spell Recharge is justified.
1st week, Spell Recharge was great. It restored Magic or Stamina, depending on the Higher Max Resource, meaning it had applications for both Magic Altmer and Stamina Altmer. The current form however, does little for either spec, being relegated to a inconsequential passive that has some Tank and PvP implications but that's about it really. I preferred the original form better than this current one.
Spell Recharge in it's original form did not work because ZOS doesn't want races that offer additional damage and sustain at the same time. That's why damage races don't have main resource sustain and sustain races don't have additional spell or weapon damage.
Always going back to "I preferred the first version" helps nobody as it won't be reverted back. They can add Health or replace Stamina with Health but Spell Recharge won't restore Magicka again.
It didn't work for ZOS because ZOS is a business and balanced gameplay means less business due to the existence of Race Change tokens. If every race had passives like the original Spell Charge or Martial Training, they'd have less incentive to race change to the new meta race, since their racial isn't as huge a deciding factor anymore. I hate to sound like a tin foil conspiracy theorist but it's not even a conspiracy, it's just basic marketing practices. Devaluing their products in any way is bad for business and as long as ZOS takes this stance, balance isn't going to be a priority for them. I wanted racials balance so badly this patch because I wanted to see more people playing off-spec races. I wanted to see Magic Bosmers, Stamina Bretons, Altmer Tanks, etc more often because that was how the patch started off as but was later second guessed and changed.
I understand the thought process of having a race that provided High Spell Damage/Sustain to be potentially problematic but couldn't that problem be addressed another way? What if they lowered Altmer Spell Damage a bit to allow them to keep the sustain? With Dunmer having the Highest Spell Damage bonus, it would be the Strongest Magic DPS, Breton the most sustainable and Altmer the nice middle ground area, kind of how it is currently on Live but with Altmer and Dunmer now offering something for their Stamina counterparts. It's why I don't like that Dunmer got so much extra max Resources from their 1st iteration as well because it kind of goes against this thought process because there's a difference between having more Damage and having too much damage.
In my world, I'd have liked to see something like this for a balanced perspective on Altmer/Breton/Dunmer/Khajiit.
Altmer
2000 Max Magic
590 Magic or Stamina restore, whichever is higher
179 Spell Damage
Breton
2000 Max Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
7% Cost reduction to Magic abilities
Dunmer
1500 Max Magic/Stamina
Fire Resistance
258 Spell/Weapon Damage
Khajiit
750 Max Health/Magic/Stamina
100 Health/Magic/Stamina regen
7% Spell/Weapon Crit.
That's was just my mindset on how to adjust balancing the races after viewing the 4.3.0 patchs for the 1st time. Khajiit was dealing more damage than all other races so reducing their Crit was a necessary evil but in exchange their sustain was now better. The Max Magic difference between Dunmer and Altmer would be offerset by the difference in Spell Damage. Breton gets more magic sustain to not fall behind Altmer in terms of damage by allowing more resources to be deviated towards Damage and Altmer would be at a nice central point that provided a bit of everything but not as strongly as the others in any given field. That sounds way better than what we currently got with all races being Full Damage or Full Sustain with only Khajiit being the outliner.
Altmer would actually parse lower than Breton AND have less sustain with those changes. 590 magicka back every 6 seconds is just ~195 magicka regen. It's not as much as you think it is.
I had thought to actually lower Breton's Max Magic down to 1750 just for this purpose but wasn't sure. Looking at it now, you are right that Breton would have a bit too much this iteration and would need the cost reduction lowered to 6% as well as maybe a small reduction to Max Magic from 2k down to 1750, while Spell Recharge went up to 600 Magic or Stamina. That should even things out more.
Altmer
2000 Magic
600 Magic or Stamina
179 Spell Damage
Breton
1750 Magic
Spell Resistance + 110 Magic/Stamina regen
6% Cost Reduction
That should be better. Now if only ZOS would learn from our interaction.
Interesting proposal but since altmer will not get any kind of magicka sustain back allow me to offer up another proposal in its place leave Breton as is but grant altmer a 1-2 second cc immunity when using a class skill
With a CD of 30s and this could work maybe. CC immunity is incredibly strong in PvP. But then it's only useful for PvP and the discussion goes back and forth again. They should just keep everything as it is now because Magicka races are balanced very well. If they touch racials again the gap might widen.
If they touch racials that don't affect DPS, the gap won't widen.0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
According to OP, stam regen on a mag toon is "completely useless" in PvE while Orc's sprint speed is "universally useful."Razorback174 wrote: »"Do you guys not have phones?"
"Do you guys not use stam?"
I have an idea--why not swap Altmer's regen with sprint speed and Orcs get Altmer's stam regen?
We're comparing:
ORC:
- +1000 max health
- 300 health regen
- 12% sprint cost reduction
- +10% movement speed
Altmer:
- 215 stamina regen
- 5% damage mitigation while channeling
Tell me with a straight face that these are equal in value.
How do you want me to break it down for you sprint cost reduction and movement speed equals out the stam regen to a point and the 1000 health and 300 recovery on a melee based toon balances out 5% damage mitigation while channeling cast time or heavy attacking on a magicka based toon who can generally stay out of harms way so infact these do about equal out I’d say even add a bit more stam regen
+1000 health and 300 health regen is equal to 5% damage reduction while chaneling? I want whatever you're on.
First it’s not just channeling its cast times and has been proven heavy attacking also procs it. Second melee character versus a mage who in general will be out of harms way. Is that not able to be comprehended
How often do you heavy attack in a group fight?
See my post above: If you cast 5 heavy attacks during a 5 minute boss fight, you will proc the damage mitigation passive for 5 whole seconds. And if you didn't take damage during those 5 seconds, you didn't gain any benefit from it.
It's quite literally the most useless passive in the game (if you're not a templar).
Correct me if I’m wrong I just read the passive again to be sure maybe I missed it but tht is 5 seconds 5 times that u might not have needed at all if u didn’t take damage cuz u are ranged but a melee character who is up close to a boss who at best gets about 300 health recovery and 1000 health who will more than likely take aoe damage that doesn’t balance out.
I think just about any player on an orc would gladly trade high elves the sprint and health for spell recharge as is. Idk 100% for sure but it’s very likely
Of course they would, but you're comparing the wrong passives.
The core passives are:
+1000 max health
+300 health regen
vs.
+215 stamina regen
The "fluff" passives are:
+12% sprint cost reduction
+10% movement speed
vs.
+5% damage reduction while channeling
Oh I see let’s changes the rules on balancing them out which I effectively did even said to give you more stam regen but I see you have to be right by these new standards I have to give you the win then. But let it be known I made my case proving people wrong and the rules had to be changed to keep with your narrative
If the spell recharge passive is so bad you just stated of course orcs would trade for it so again how do we wanna set the goal post
You asked if orcs, a STAMINA race, would exchange their fluff passives (12% sprint cost reduction and 10% movement speed) for 215 STAMINA regen.
No *** they would.
Your question would be like asking Altmer if they would exchange their 5% damage reduction while channeling for 215 magicka regen. Who the *** wouldn't?
You realize orc wouldn’t get stamina it would be magicka regen as altmers passive is worded. orcs stam would be higher so as I stated they would get magicka back and orcs would also get that 5% damage mitigation when using a channel or cast time ability. In return you get the health and sprint speed increase and cost reductionEdited by BattleAxe on February 21, 2019 8:23PM0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Why even nerf Breton and buff Altmer when both are on par and this is backed up by several parses from different testers?
Because these people don't want balance. They want their favorite race to be significantly superior. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how Dunmers are able to do end game content on live with no sustain. The ways these people talk they should be one of the lowest Magicka DPS.2 -
sirpz✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I mean, why should High Elves have a monopoly on the worst utility passive in the game?
When you're conducting the post-mortem on Wrathstone, trying to explain the sudden wave of unsubs, this is why: absolutely awful decisions that should've never made it to PTS in the first place look like they're actually going to make it to live servers. If 4.3.4 is the end, then Wrathstone racial changes are an abject failure that cast the company's intentions in the worst possible light.
Orc - Orc is stupidly OP, with 2k Max Stam, 258 WD, 1k Health, and several universally useful utility passives. Completely overshadows Redguard.
Altmer - Altmer's Magicka generalist identity is destroyed by niche passives. All other mag races pull nearly identical DPS, but all of them offer superior universal utility. Off-stat regen is trash, and does not fairly compensate for what was taken away. "Increased chance to apply status effects" or a dozen other clearly superior alternatives have been suggested. The only explanation for refusing to offer better utility is an actual dev intent to drive players away from Altmer characters, a change that would give many of them actual utility with no statistical change in DPS.
Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess that's one way of ending the Murkmire era, but damn though. Kinda brutal.
Bosmer - Penetration after dodge roll is awkward and pointless. Penetration based on range is just one of 1000 obvious alternatives that would actually suit the archer playstyle better. The stealth bonus nerf is senseless and should be reverted.
Frankly, these changes should not go live. If there's anything that can be done internally to remedy this cluster$#%^ before launch it is in the company's best interests to do it. I've already unsubbed and I'm sure many, many more will follow when they find out that >3 characters are affected and you want to charge people money if they want to fix >3 characters you've messed up. There's no surprise here that video games have to make updates and change things. Cool. But it is an unethical business practice to change things in such a way that intentionally dissatisfies customers so that you can profit on selling them fixes. It is absolutely transparent that this is happening here. All mag DPS parse nearly identical, yet you gimped the most popular Magicka DD race with no utility in PvE content to sell race change tokens. And there's a similar situation for Argonian tanks and Redguard DPS. You didn't just create equal alternatives - you created superior alternatives and nerfed the old meta. Players are smart enough to see that and are not going to keep paying your bills. I don't blame anyone in particular because I have no idea what internal factors cause companies to do stupid things like this, but somebody needs to take note and fix it. Many existing characters are being disadvantaged in this update in ways that are easily avoidable if ZOS would only put a little effort into ensuring that our concerns are given a serious look before going live.
honestly enough of this. im tired of altmer players complaining all day because "'muh altmer isnt the best race in the game"
Pre-nerf altmer was the most busted sh**. It was overwhelmingly the best mag race. Altmers still parse the best, they just have a utility passive that helps alot for pvp. Enough. all the races are pretty balanced, some are definitely better than others, but we can't just have every single race be exactly the same and do everything the same, whats the purpose of races then?Former Guild Master for the Gold Dragon Inquisitors
Former Officer for the Stolen Sweetroll
The Bone Zone, Gryphon Heart | Argonian Necrotank
Agristair Theol, Shield of the North | Breton Sorctank
Julius Tullius Raenor, Immortal Redeemer | Imperial TankDK
Rhosh the Impaler, Mageslayer | Orc Tankplar
Blind-From-Shadows, Boethiah's Scythe | Argonain Tankblade
Darius Countenain, Kyne's Will | Redguard Tankden
... and a bunch of other dps and heal toons
| CP 1300+ | 6500+hrs |4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pre-nerf altmer was the most busted sh**. It was overwhelmingly the best mag race.
Except they weren't. Dunmer were BiS.but we can't just have every single race be exactly the same and do everything the same, whats the purpose of races then?
Single player TES games? Races are the same
GW2? Races are the same
FFXV? Races are the same
Having races in a game doesn't mean they need to perform differently. I like the approach to the single player TES games best where the races start with different stats but can get to the same level by endgame.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 21, 2019 8:32PM1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I mean, why should High Elves have a monopoly on the worst utility passive in the game?
When you're conducting the post-mortem on Wrathstone, trying to explain the sudden wave of unsubs, this is why: absolutely awful decisions that should've never made it to PTS in the first place look like they're actually going to make it to live servers. If 4.3.4 is the end, then Wrathstone racial changes are an abject failure that cast the company's intentions in the worst possible light.
Orc - Orc is stupidly OP, with 2k Max Stam, 258 WD, 1k Health, and several universally useful utility passives. Completely overshadows Redguard.
Altmer - Altmer's Magicka generalist identity is destroyed by niche passives. All other mag races pull nearly identical DPS, but all of them offer superior universal utility. Off-stat regen is trash, and does not fairly compensate for what was taken away. "Increased chance to apply status effects" or a dozen other clearly superior alternatives have been suggested. The only explanation for refusing to offer better utility is an actual dev intent to drive players away from Altmer characters, a change that would give many of them actual utility with no statistical change in DPS.
Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess that's one way of ending the Murkmire era, but damn though. Kinda brutal.
Bosmer - Penetration after dodge roll is awkward and pointless. Penetration based on range is just one of 1000 obvious alternatives that would actually suit the archer playstyle better. The stealth bonus nerf is senseless and should be reverted.
Frankly, these changes should not go live. If there's anything that can be done internally to remedy this cluster$#%^ before launch it is in the company's best interests to do it. I've already unsubbed and I'm sure many, many more will follow when they find out that >3 characters are affected and you want to charge people money if they want to fix >3 characters you've messed up. There's no surprise here that video games have to make updates and change things. Cool. But it is an unethical business practice to change things in such a way that intentionally dissatisfies customers so that you can profit on selling them fixes. It is absolutely transparent that this is happening here. All mag DPS parse nearly identical, yet you gimped the most popular Magicka DD race with no utility in PvE content to sell race change tokens. And there's a similar situation for Argonian tanks and Redguard DPS. You didn't just create equal alternatives - you created superior alternatives and nerfed the old meta. Players are smart enough to see that and are not going to keep paying your bills. I don't blame anyone in particular because I have no idea what internal factors cause companies to do stupid things like this, but somebody needs to take note and fix it. Many existing characters are being disadvantaged in this update in ways that are easily avoidable if ZOS would only put a little effort into ensuring that our concerns are given a serious look before going live.
honestly enough of this. im tired of altmer players complaining all day because "'muh altmer isnt the best race in the game"
Pre-nerf altmer was the most busted sh**. It was overwhelmingly the best mag race. Altmers still parse the best, they just have a utility passive that helps alot for pvp. Enough. all the races are pretty balanced, some are definitely better than others, but we can't just have every single race be exactly the same and do everything the same, whats the purpose of races then?
Even if they removed racial passives and only left each races flavor default passives people will still find a reason to say one race is better1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I mean, why should High Elves have a monopoly on the worst utility passive in the game?
When you're conducting the post-mortem on Wrathstone, trying to explain the sudden wave of unsubs, this is why: absolutely awful decisions that should've never made it to PTS in the first place look like they're actually going to make it to live servers. If 4.3.4 is the end, then Wrathstone racial changes are an abject failure that cast the company's intentions in the worst possible light.
Orc - Orc is stupidly OP, with 2k Max Stam, 258 WD, 1k Health, and several universally useful utility passives. Completely overshadows Redguard.
Altmer - Altmer's Magicka generalist identity is destroyed by niche passives. All other mag races pull nearly identical DPS, but all of them offer superior universal utility. Off-stat regen is trash, and does not fairly compensate for what was taken away. "Increased chance to apply status effects" or a dozen other clearly superior alternatives have been suggested. The only explanation for refusing to offer better utility is an actual dev intent to drive players away from Altmer characters, a change that would give many of them actual utility with no statistical change in DPS.
Argonian - These guys got hit way too hard with the nerf hammer. Now they're not really good for anything. I guess that's one way of ending the Murkmire era, but damn though. Kinda brutal.
Bosmer - Penetration after dodge roll is awkward and pointless. Penetration based on range is just one of 1000 obvious alternatives that would actually suit the archer playstyle better. The stealth bonus nerf is senseless and should be reverted.
Frankly, these changes should not go live. If there's anything that can be done internally to remedy this cluster$#%^ before launch it is in the company's best interests to do it. I've already unsubbed and I'm sure many, many more will follow when they find out that >3 characters are affected and you want to charge people money if they want to fix >3 characters you've messed up. There's no surprise here that video games have to make updates and change things. Cool. But it is an unethical business practice to change things in such a way that intentionally dissatisfies customers so that you can profit on selling them fixes. It is absolutely transparent that this is happening here. All mag DPS parse nearly identical, yet you gimped the most popular Magicka DD race with no utility in PvE content to sell race change tokens. And there's a similar situation for Argonian tanks and Redguard DPS. You didn't just create equal alternatives - you created superior alternatives and nerfed the old meta. Players are smart enough to see that and are not going to keep paying your bills. I don't blame anyone in particular because I have no idea what internal factors cause companies to do stupid things like this, but somebody needs to take note and fix it. Many existing characters are being disadvantaged in this update in ways that are easily avoidable if ZOS would only put a little effort into ensuring that our concerns are given a serious look before going live.
honestly enough of this. im tired of altmer players complaining all day because "'muh altmer isnt the best race in the game"
Pre-nerf altmer was the most busted sh**. It was overwhelmingly the best mag race. Altmers still parse the best, they just have a utility passive that helps alot for pvp. Enough. all the races are pretty balanced, some are definitely better than others, but we can't just have every single race be exactly the same and do everything the same, whats the purpose of races then?
Even if they removed racial passives and only left each races flavor default passives people will still find a reason to say one race is better
How does that make any sense?0