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Literally no one is happy with Altmer spell recharge atm, why are they so stubborn?
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now.
The only thing that's not consistent is the reduced costs on Magicka skills that Bretons have because it varies greatly from class to class and build to build (might always be 7% but the real amount is always different). 258 Spell Damage is always applied in the same amount to every build and every class using respective spells. If something is consistent it's the extra damage from Altmers in U21. If Dunmer "damage" now is consistent and Dunmer > Altmer in that regard then Altmer "damage" after the update is consistent, too, and Altmer > Breton (as long as we apply your logic).
Altmer and Dunmer always had to build the same on live. Altmer sustain was not good enough to forgo using absorb glyphs or sustain food. This ensured that Dunmer would always parse higher.1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
First round:
20 tests samples
Breton stronger than Altmer: 5/20 times
end result: Altmer wins overall
Second round: (this one you might consider as insignificant)
20 test samples
Breton stronger than Altmer: 8/20 times
end result: Altmer wins overallPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
First round:
20 tests samples
Breton stronger than Altmer: 5/20 times
end result: Altmer wins overall
Second round: (this one you might consider as insignificant)
20 test samples
Breton stronger than Altmer: 8/20 times
end result: Altmer wins overall
That was just 2 tests. DK from the same tester has Breton at 13/20.
With Altmer and Dunmer, Dunmer was consistently the higher DPS dealer. The reason for this, as I posted above, was that they both had to use the same build. Altmer made sustain a hair easier, but ultimately still required an absorb glyph or gold food, which meant there was no possibility for them to make up the DPS loss through their build. You had to accept a slight DPS loss in exchange for the slightly higher sustain.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 20, 2019 2:27PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol1 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
the difference is so small, that the way stronger sustain from Bretons will let them stay above altmer in PVE
Not to mention the 2 / 4k extra spellresistance they also have, its small, but its a point for bretons.
Also the fact that they can run a Berserker Enchant means that they can deal more dmg overall, as soon as there is more than 1 Enemie to kill (which is the case in most fights.
Lets take vAS+2 as an example.
The extra 200 SD bretons have over altmer (atlmer passive 258 SD, bretons 452 SD form enchant (without minor buffs)) means that the passive cleavedmg onto the minibosses is stronger for bretons than for altmers.
A group running 8 Breton DD's may not have to focus the minibosses at all, due to higher cleavedmg. Erco they can focus all dmg onto the Boss (and ofc spheres)
Now if they are Altmers, they may have a little bit more ST, however this extra ST DMG is lost, beacuase they may have to focus the minibosses, ergo loosing Bossdps.
Jeah there are a few fights where altmer may be a nice choice. Fights with heavy blocking, dodging or breakfrees, but they are scarce in PVE trials.
Edited by SaintSubwayy on February 20, 2019 2:43PMPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »the difference is so small, that the way stronger sustain from Bretons will let them stay above altmer in PVE
This argument again and again and again but you still don't have any data to back this up. Having feels Breton might outparse Altmer because [reasons] is nice but nothing considerable in the end.
As I said on the last page, it seems like you gladly passed on the additional sustain Altmer offered and picked Dunmer (live version) for more damage but somehow you think Breton is the better pick after the changes due to sustain compared to Altmer that offers more damage (and the gap between damage then vs. damage after the changes is much bigger than it is between Altmer and Dunmer right now but still the small damage increase made Dunmer the better pick?).
So:
Now: damage > sustain
Then: sustain > damage
Although nothing changed except the races which offer those things (sustain: Altmer > Dunmer ; Altmer < Breton; damage: Altmer < Dunmer; Altmer > Breton).
Some of the arguments Altmer players bring up here are spinning so fast, it's hard to keep track. Khajiit better, Dunmer better, Breton better, Altmer worst magicka race, why pick Altmer, Altmer useless, Altmer Stamina sustain lore-breaking, PvP is the focus now, Wheeler is the guy to blame for this... bla bla bla.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭The fact of the matter is, numbers are so close among all the races that for the average player it doesn't really matter what race you pick. There will ALWAYS be a min/max build/race, that will never change.Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
Founder of Dominion Special Forces
YouTube - ESO & Automotive Racing
DC Zerg Busting2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
the difference is so small, that the way stronger sustain from Bretons will let them stay above altmer in PVE
Not to mention the 2 / 4k extra spellresistance they also have, its small, but its a point for bretons.
Also the fact that they can run a Berserker Enchant means that they can deal more dmg overall, as soon as there is more than 1 Enemie to kill (which is the case in most fights.
Lets take vAS+2 as an example.
The extra 200 SD bretons have over altmer (atlmer passive 258 SD, bretons 452 SD form enchant (without minor buffs)) means that the passive cleavedmg onto the minibosses is stronger for bretons than for altmers.
A group running 8 Breton DD's may not have to focus the minibosses at all, due to higher cleavedmg. Erco they can focus all dmg onto the Boss (and ofc spheres)
Now if they are Altmers, they may have a little bit more ST, however this extra ST DMG is lost, beacuase they may have to focus the minibosses, ergo loosing Bossdps.
Jeah there are a few fights where altmer may be a nice choice. Fights with heavy blocking, dodging or breakfrees, but they are scarce in PVE trials.
Absorb glyph is too big of a DPS loss. You'll have to go with gold food if you want higher DPS than Breton. That's the only scenario in which you end up with more spell damage.0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BaylorCorvette wrote: »The fact of the matter is, numbers are so close among all the races that for the average player it doesn't really matter what race you pick. There will ALWAYS be a min/max build/race, that will never change.
Exactly. The WHOLE PURPOSE of the racial reconstruction was to allow people to diversify their characters and still hold somewhat consistent numbers.
Breton, Altmer, Dunmer, and Khajiit are all pretty close to the same magicka DPS. That's a good thing. ZOS has done their job correctly.
Unfortunately, you have people that have a racial superiority complex.
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren6 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »SaintSubwayy wrote: »the difference is so small, that the way stronger sustain from Bretons will let them stay above altmer in PVE
This argument again and again and again but you still don't have any data to back this up. Having feels Breton might outparse Altmer because [reasons] is nice but nothing considerable in the end.
As I said on the last page, it seems like you gladly passed on the additional sustain Altmer offered and picked Dunmer (live version) for more damage but somehow you think Breton is the better pick after the changes due to sustain compared to Altmer that offers more damage (and the gap between damage then vs. damage after the changes is much bigger than it is between Altmer and Dunmer right now but still the small damage increase made Dunmer the better pick?).
So:
Now: damage > sustain
Then: sustain > damage
Although nothing changed except the races which offer those things (sustain: Altmer > Dunmer ; Altmer < Breton; damage: Altmer < Dunmer; Altmer > Breton).
Some of the arguments Altmer players bring up here are spinning so fast, it's hard to keep track. Khajiit better, Dunmer better, Breton better, Altmer worst magicka race, why pick Altmer, Altmer useless, Altmer Stamina sustain lore-breaking, PvP is the focus now, Wheeler is the guy to blame for this... bla bla bla.
actually I recently changed from Dunmer to Altmer, because of sustain.
Well you can do the simple test about the overall dmg with cleave, throw in 2 more targets behind a 6mio dummy and then parse with both races again, I could bet ya, that breton will be stronger (not by very much, but by a bit for sure)
Altmer dont have the sustainedge over dunmer anymore, so something definetly changed.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
the difference is so small, that the way stronger sustain from Bretons will let them stay above altmer in PVE
Not to mention the 2 / 4k extra spellresistance they also have, its small, but its a point for bretons.
Also the fact that they can run a Berserker Enchant means that they can deal more dmg overall, as soon as there is more than 1 Enemie to kill (which is the case in most fights.
Lets take vAS+2 as an example.
The extra 200 SD bretons have over altmer (atlmer passive 258 SD, bretons 452 SD form enchant (without minor buffs)) means that the passive cleavedmg onto the minibosses is stronger for bretons than for altmers.
A group running 8 Breton DD's may not have to focus the minibosses at all, due to higher cleavedmg. Erco they can focus all dmg onto the Boss (and ofc spheres)
Now if they are Altmers, they may have a little bit more ST, however this extra ST DMG is lost, beacuase they may have to focus the minibosses, ergo loosing Bossdps.
Jeah there are a few fights where altmer may be a nice choice. Fights with heavy blocking, dodging or breakfrees, but they are scarce in PVE trials.
Forgot this tidbit when reading that parse:
"Magicka Weapon Enchants - Flame+Infused Absorb Magicka(all except Breton)/Flame+Infused Berserker(Breton)"
So while breton gets to use leet beserker enchants, everyone else gets to use absorb that is mixed dmg/sustain.
Just to remind everyone, heres the mag race breakdown:
High Elf: 59,695
Dark Elf: 59,508
Breton: 59,495
Khajiit: 58,581
Argonian/Imperial: 58,098
Lowest is 1597 avg dmg from High elf.
And stamina:
Orc: 63,424
Dark Elf: 63,307
Redguard: 62,613
Khajiit: 62,466
Wood Elf: 62,448
Imperial: 62,334
Lowest is 1090 avg dmg from Orc.
They also said bosmer/redguard sustain made bosmer like 17% better with fights that had breaks, but overall both sustain was beautiful.
Unless I see data showing otherwise; the races are good to go.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual5 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
These parses statistically show absolutely nothing at all. It’s not about the parses though, it’s the playstyle and flavor; in very unoptimized groups or solo a Breton will perform better, and in fairly well thought out trial groups an Altmer will win. These changes will probably be about 0,5%...
It’s about having a passive that’s not well thought out, having some use in most situations and keeping it a bit lore-friendly. Same goes for Bosmer (stealth) and Dunmer (fire damage?).
There are ways to tweak these things while keeping the current balance. Except for Argonians, those poor lizard folk need some love.1 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
These parses statistically show absolutely nothing at all. It’s not about the parses though, it’s the playstyle and flavor; in very unoptimized groups or solo a Breton will perform better, and in fairly well thought out trial groups an Altmer will win. These changes will probably be about 0,5%...
It’s about having a passive that’s not well thought out, having some use in most situations and keeping it a bit lore-friendly. Same goes for Bosmer (stealth) and Dunmer (fire damage?).
There are ways to tweak these things while keeping the current balance. Except for Argonians, those poor lizard folk need some love.
If multiple races can pull roughly the same damage- then the "flavor" is picking whichever race floats your boat. ZOS has done a great job at evening the playing field for the races so that there's not one defining race that HAS to be chosen over the rest.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »Altmer dont have the sustainedge over dunmer anymore, so something definetly changed.
Never doubted that as Sustain + Damage + Magicka was too much, needed a nerf and was one of ZOS stated goals (damage vs. sustain).
The thing is, the meta didn't change. Altmer, Breton, Dunmer and even Khajiit - all excellent picks for Magicka DPS. That's at least two more now than before.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
the difference is so small, that the way stronger sustain from Bretons will let them stay above altmer in PVE
Not to mention the 2 / 4k extra spellresistance they also have, its small, but its a point for bretons.
Also the fact that they can run a Berserker Enchant means that they can deal more dmg overall, as soon as there is more than 1 Enemie to kill (which is the case in most fights.
Lets take vAS+2 as an example.
The extra 200 SD bretons have over altmer (atlmer passive 258 SD, bretons 452 SD form enchant (without minor buffs)) means that the passive cleavedmg onto the minibosses is stronger for bretons than for altmers.
A group running 8 Breton DD's may not have to focus the minibosses at all, due to higher cleavedmg. Erco they can focus all dmg onto the Boss (and ofc spheres)
Now if they are Altmers, they may have a little bit more ST, however this extra ST DMG is lost, beacuase they may have to focus the minibosses, ergo loosing Bossdps.
Jeah there are a few fights where altmer may be a nice choice. Fights with heavy blocking, dodging or breakfrees, but they are scarce in PVE trials.
Those parses were taken with sustain being part of the fight and altmers sacrificing their dmg to get sustain. And they still consistently pull ahead. Yes the difference is small but they still pull ahead. They simply have higher dmg potential. If you want to just throw all that in the trash and cherry pick scenarios just for the sake of making a point then let's at least cut the bs about dunmers being better on live atm.
2 -
LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭
Forgot this tidbit when reading that parse:
"Magicka Weapon Enchants - Flame+Infused Absorb Magicka(all except Breton)/Flame+Infused Berserker(Breton)"
So while breton gets to use leet beserker enchants, everyone else gets to use absorb that is mixed dmg/sustain.
Just to remind everyone, heres the mag race breakdown:
High Elf: 59,695
Dark Elf: 59,508
Breton: 59,495
Khajiit: 58,581
Argonian/Imperial: 58,098
Lowest is 1597 avg dmg from High elf.
And stamina:
Orc: 63,424
Dark Elf: 63,307
Redguard: 62,613
Khajiit: 62,466
Wood Elf: 62,448
Imperial: 62,334
Lowest is 1090 avg dmg from Orc.
They also said bosmer/redguard sustain made bosmer like 17% better with fights that had breaks, but overall both sustain was beautiful.
Unless I see data showing otherwise; the races are good to go.
But how do the magicka races parse when they use stamina builds?0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
That are pure single target tests.
If there are two or more targets, breton will out dps altmer due to higher SD from the glyph.
Furthermore the stam reg and reduced dmg while channeling of altmer are not really useful for an endgame trial scenario.
But the 3,5% reduced magick dmg truely are.
I put zero points in hardy for actual trials like vCR or vAS because there is only magick dmg.PTS-EU1 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Out of curiosity, what do you think it should be replaced with? There is enough mag combat in the altmer passives as it is. So what passive do you want to ask for? Keep in mind, if it improves dps, it's op.
this is exactly the problem. If you give them another magicka passive, dunmers will complain. Then they'd just shift complaints from one side to the other. Altmer got a significant buff with the 258 spell damage already, so stop complaining and enjoy the buff to ALL damage you do instead of just elemental. It also affects healing and scales.
How does one build to take advantage of that +258 SD? You need to build for sustain (either an absorb glyph or gold food) which negates any DPS advantage you might otherwise have over a Breton. So you end up with the same DPS and less sustain. I fail to see how that's "OP".
And as has been mentioned a million times, there are far more useful passives that could be given to them which don't affect DPS. Stamina regen is a slap in the face. It's 100% useless in PvE and 100% lore-breaking. It's purely a PvP passive.
People keep saying this. It isn't true. All the dunmer magblades (75%+ of mag DDs currently) on live rn in endgame groups don't build for sustain beyond clockwork/vamp. They run SD glyphs. Doing full light attack rotations in any fight including longer ones like vAS +2, vCR +3 is easy with good support like worm/drain/orbs (assuming you don't die of course). PTS altmer is no different with no sustain passive. Altmer vs breton really just comes down to DPS vs survival. A breton using bifood will not be pulling more damage than an altmer in clockwork assuming both can get along fine without absorb mag like they should be able to. Breton gets more survival through extra HP and extra resists, altmer gets more damage. Seems fair enough to me. In some situations (vCR upstairs) you can get along fine on dunmer with bifood ALREADY which just makes breton huge overkill and substantial damage loss.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x24 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »I love the passive personally. MagDK works better with trap in the rotation anyways, this allows me to sustain trap and still have stam for break free and block, for example last boss of HMvHoF where it is a necessity to block his left foot stomp.
Lots of people crying about the change. Need to build a bridge and get over it already.
use acceleration?
sry but the altmer passive will be a "waste" of stamina in this case, due to providing more stam than you prob could consume with blocking and trap.
Especially since magDK also uses eruption, which also restores 1k stam.
@Masel the point about breton beeing stronger is, that it can run a Infused berserker glyph, and have 452 SD with a 95%+ Uptime, while altmer has to run a Absorb glyph
Now which one boosts your healing more?
Absorb + 258 SD....or 452 SD and 7% cost reduction?
Same goes for DPS Builds.
Why should I run a Altmer, when I can run a Breton, have better sustain and DPS is equal (or maybe slightly worse)
It's the same dilemma we have on live right now with Khajit and Redguard...one does slightly more DMG on paper, but has to sacrifice too much for sustain, so it falls behind the sustain race.
It will be the same now with breton vs Altmer and Dunmer
And with breton havbing the free Resistance, which isnt a big deal, its a nice perk on top of the already very strong breton passives. In situations like vAS execute (where you can get burning statuseffect on you very easy) its pretty nice....not to mention in PVP, where chilled is king atm, and you'll have a stupidly high uptime on this passive, making already tanky builds even more tanky...
My groups of dunmer NB DDs on live (no sustain passive, exactly like PTS altmer) almost invariably run berserker > absorb mag on live in all content including vCR/vAS HM. In vCR you can get away with berserk + bifood if you are top group. While your argument may hold true on target dummies I am 100% sure that it does not in raid where support will ensure that you can sustain regardless. What it really comes down to is survival from breton (hp from bifood, assuming the altmer can't run it anyways like vCR top group, and a small amount of resists) versus damage from altmer (the magicka from bifood is more than offset by the SD from altmer). This seems fair to me and I expect most endgame players will roll altmer, at least on magblade.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x20 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭lassitershawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Out of curiosity, what do you think it should be replaced with? There is enough mag combat in the altmer passives as it is. So what passive do you want to ask for? Keep in mind, if it improves dps, it's op.
this is exactly the problem. If you give them another magicka passive, dunmers will complain. Then they'd just shift complaints from one side to the other. Altmer got a significant buff with the 258 spell damage already, so stop complaining and enjoy the buff to ALL damage you do instead of just elemental. It also affects healing and scales.
How does one build to take advantage of that +258 SD? You need to build for sustain (either an absorb glyph or gold food) which negates any DPS advantage you might otherwise have over a Breton. So you end up with the same DPS and less sustain. I fail to see how that's "OP".
And as has been mentioned a million times, there are far more useful passives that could be given to them which don't affect DPS. Stamina regen is a slap in the face. It's 100% useless in PvE and 100% lore-breaking. It's purely a PvP passive.
People keep saying this. It isn't true. All the dunmer magblades (75%+ of mag DDs currently) on live rn in endgame groups don't build for sustain beyond clockwork/vamp. They run SD glyphs. Doing full light attack rotations in any fight including longer ones like vAS +2, vCR +3 is easy with good support like worm/drain/orbs (assuming you don't die of course). PTS altmer is no different with no sustain passive. Altmer vs breton really just comes down to DPS vs survival. A breton using bifood will not be pulling more damage than an altmer in clockwork assuming both can get along fine without absorb mag like they should be able to. Breton gets more survival through extra HP and extra resists, altmer gets more damage. Seems fair enough to me. In some situations (vCR upstairs) you can get along fine on dunmer with bifood ALREADY which just makes breton huge overkill and substantial damage loss.
The people in those kind of groups will roll with anything, because they're the best 1% of the playerbase. Of course if you run 2 healers dedicated to buff and sustain the dd's, sustain is not an issue... But not everyone (like 99%) plays like this.
(PeOpLe KeEp SaYiNg ThIs)1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Forgot this tidbit when reading that parse:
"Magicka Weapon Enchants - Flame+Infused Absorb Magicka(all except Breton)/Flame+Infused Berserker(Breton)"
So while breton gets to use leet beserker enchants, everyone else gets to use absorb that is mixed dmg/sustain.
Just to remind everyone, heres the mag race breakdown:
High Elf: 59,695
Dark Elf: 59,508
Breton: 59,495
Khajiit: 58,581
Argonian/Imperial: 58,098
Lowest is 1597 avg dmg from High elf.
And stamina:
Orc: 63,424
Dark Elf: 63,307
Redguard: 62,613
Khajiit: 62,466
Wood Elf: 62,448
Imperial: 62,334
Lowest is 1090 avg dmg from Orc.
They also said bosmer/redguard sustain made bosmer like 17% better with fights that had breaks, but overall both sustain was beautiful.
Unless I see data showing otherwise; the races are good to go.
But how do the magicka races parse when they use stamina builds?
in that thread it was listed as "non -race". Which meant they tested their build using a mag race or stam race with opposite dmg pools. I believe that number was 2k off from top slot.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »lassitershawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Out of curiosity, what do you think it should be replaced with? There is enough mag combat in the altmer passives as it is. So what passive do you want to ask for? Keep in mind, if it improves dps, it's op.
this is exactly the problem. If you give them another magicka passive, dunmers will complain. Then they'd just shift complaints from one side to the other. Altmer got a significant buff with the 258 spell damage already, so stop complaining and enjoy the buff to ALL damage you do instead of just elemental. It also affects healing and scales.
How does one build to take advantage of that +258 SD? You need to build for sustain (either an absorb glyph or gold food) which negates any DPS advantage you might otherwise have over a Breton. So you end up with the same DPS and less sustain. I fail to see how that's "OP".
And as has been mentioned a million times, there are far more useful passives that could be given to them which don't affect DPS. Stamina regen is a slap in the face. It's 100% useless in PvE and 100% lore-breaking. It's purely a PvP passive.
People keep saying this. It isn't true. All the dunmer magblades (75%+ of mag DDs currently) on live rn in endgame groups don't build for sustain beyond clockwork/vamp. They run SD glyphs. Doing full light attack rotations in any fight including longer ones like vAS +2, vCR +3 is easy with good support like worm/drain/orbs (assuming you don't die of course). PTS altmer is no different with no sustain passive. Altmer vs breton really just comes down to DPS vs survival. A breton using bifood will not be pulling more damage than an altmer in clockwork assuming both can get along fine without absorb mag like they should be able to. Breton gets more survival through extra HP and extra resists, altmer gets more damage. Seems fair enough to me. In some situations (vCR upstairs) you can get along fine on dunmer with bifood ALREADY which just makes breton huge overkill and substantial damage loss.
The people in those kind of groups will roll with anything, because they're the best 1% of the playerbase. Of course if you run 2 healers dedicated to buff and sustain the dd's, sustain is not an issue... But not everyone (like 99%) plays like this.
(PeOpLe KeEp SaYiNg ThIs)
I remember watching Sherman's vid of him solo parsing on a argonian, dunmer, high elf and kitty. He got roughly 35k on each without changing much to his sustain. in a raid scenario he said his DPS increases to like 40-45k and also said he isnt the best end-game pve master.
That tells me even at terrible group compositions, a solo playing running WHATEVER they want can see similar results. This is why I say the races are good to go.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »lassitershawn wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Out of curiosity, what do you think it should be replaced with? There is enough mag combat in the altmer passives as it is. So what passive do you want to ask for? Keep in mind, if it improves dps, it's op.
this is exactly the problem. If you give them another magicka passive, dunmers will complain. Then they'd just shift complaints from one side to the other. Altmer got a significant buff with the 258 spell damage already, so stop complaining and enjoy the buff to ALL damage you do instead of just elemental. It also affects healing and scales.
How does one build to take advantage of that +258 SD? You need to build for sustain (either an absorb glyph or gold food) which negates any DPS advantage you might otherwise have over a Breton. So you end up with the same DPS and less sustain. I fail to see how that's "OP".
And as has been mentioned a million times, there are far more useful passives that could be given to them which don't affect DPS. Stamina regen is a slap in the face. It's 100% useless in PvE and 100% lore-breaking. It's purely a PvP passive.
People keep saying this. It isn't true. All the dunmer magblades (75%+ of mag DDs currently) on live rn in endgame groups don't build for sustain beyond clockwork/vamp. They run SD glyphs. Doing full light attack rotations in any fight including longer ones like vAS +2, vCR +3 is easy with good support like worm/drain/orbs (assuming you don't die of course). PTS altmer is no different with no sustain passive. Altmer vs breton really just comes down to DPS vs survival. A breton using bifood will not be pulling more damage than an altmer in clockwork assuming both can get along fine without absorb mag like they should be able to. Breton gets more survival through extra HP and extra resists, altmer gets more damage. Seems fair enough to me. In some situations (vCR upstairs) you can get along fine on dunmer with bifood ALREADY which just makes breton huge overkill and substantial damage loss.
The people in those kind of groups will roll with anything, because they're the best 1% of the playerbase. Of course if you run 2 healers dedicated to buff and sustain the dd's, sustain is not an issue... But not everyone (like 99%) plays like this.
(PeOpLe KeEp SaYiNg ThIs)
Literally every raid group runs with 2 healers dedicated to buffing and sustaining DPS...? And if you aren't playing in a scenario where it matters (endgame content), I'm not sure why you care.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x22 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
the difference is so small, that the way stronger sustain from Bretons will let them stay above altmer in PVE
Not to mention the 2 / 4k extra spellresistance they also have, its small, but its a point for bretons.
Also the fact that they can run a Berserker Enchant means that they can deal more dmg overall, as soon as there is more than 1 Enemie to kill (which is the case in most fights.
Lets take vAS+2 as an example.
The extra 200 SD bretons have over altmer (atlmer passive 258 SD, bretons 452 SD form enchant (without minor buffs)) means that the passive cleavedmg onto the minibosses is stronger for bretons than for altmers.
A group running 8 Breton DD's may not have to focus the minibosses at all, due to higher cleavedmg. Erco they can focus all dmg onto the Boss (and ofc spheres)
Now if they are Altmers, they may have a little bit more ST, however this extra ST DMG is lost, beacuase they may have to focus the minibosses, ergo loosing Bossdps.
Jeah there are a few fights where altmer may be a nice choice. Fights with heavy blocking, dodging or breakfrees, but they are scarce in PVE trials.
Four live parses from this patch. One from me three from better players, three separate groups. ALL are dunmer (which has sustain equivalent to PTS altmer) and ALL are using berserker in vAS. While relatively short for vAS these parses are relatively long for fights in general and imo clearly demonstrate that altmer are not going to have to run absorb mag in good groups. I don't actually really care if altmer get buffed in a way that doesn't add to their DPS substantially but I certainly don't think they are bad or universally inferior to breton like some people are indicating. Will people go breton? Yes. It will have stronger survival and might be a stronger option for progression groups. But it seems to be the case altmer will be objectively superior for endgame DPS in good groups. Altmer aren't completely dominating but they are a strong race, almost certainly BiS DPS for at least magblade. Imo it is a good thing that there is a real choice between two races (more really, PTS dunmer and altmer are pretty much the same thing and khajiit will probably be viable as well).
William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x22 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Vulsahdaal wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Ive been saying it all along, but Ill say it again.
Its not about Altmer regaining mag regen.
To me, and I suspect quite a few others, its not about Altmer not being the top pick for mag class. As can be seen in my sig, I have 3 top level magsorcs. One is an Altmer (as anyone can guess from my posts
) and an other is Breton. My bases are covered.
If my Altmer can no longer complete content that he used to (and thats what its really about to me, not the dps numbers) I will be upset of course, but at least I have my Breton to fall back on if needed.
What this is about to me, is that this 'spell' recharge is dumb, lore breaking, and completely useless. At least, thats what it was about until yesterday, then I started to look at the stam characters situation.
After doing so, I now believe that 'spell' recharge is not only dumb, lore breaking and useless but also ZOS trolling Altmers. How so?
If it is a case of damage vs sustain, as you say then compare two damage characters:
Altmer: + 2000 mag
Orc: + 2000 stam
Altmer: + 258 spell dam
Orc: + 258 weapon dam
Looks like two sides of the same coin. Then:
Altmer: + 645 stam when activating an ability. 6 second cooldown.
Orc: + 1000 health and heals up to 600 health when deals weapon damage. 4 second cooldown.
Why does Altmer not have this health passive? At least for the sake of consistancy?
Or instead of health, give Orc 645 mag 'return' every 6 seconds?
Because giving Orc magicka is somehow wrong, but giving Altmer stamina is right?
Sorry, still feels like trolling to me..
They couldn't have come up with a more useless passive than stamina regen for a magicka DD race. As you said, why not give orcs magicka regen? Apply the same principle...
At least health and health regen is universally useful.
Why not give orcs magicka sure take the health and give orcs magicka on my stam dk who is an orc that magicka would actually come in handy but people keep forgetting altmers also get the 5% damage mitigation. I already know you will reply tht it’s situationally only good on a Templar but every class and I mean every class can heavy attack so all can access that mitigation. But hey since we are still on this buff altmer kick what about argonians and shadowscales? Your championing for a single race when others could use this kind of dedication. I personally main as a nord dk tank so I have no agenda here for any race honestly. My point on these forums is people cry for their race to only get fixed and leave out all other races. You want to talk about stuff that is horrible it took this long to get nords in a good position balance wise. ZoS with this pts have done amazingly well at balancing the races to a point that some minor build changes will keep all races nearly identical in dps parses. Ik you will probably bring up some scenario to fit your own personal narrative but let’s get real ZoS didn’t want one race to be absolutely Mountains above the rest. Stamina on a mag dd is actually quite useful roll dodging, blocking, sprinting, casting traps for minor force, and omg surprise an altmer tank will make great use of that passive omg can’t believe it altmer can do something other than just dps crazy ik.Edited by BattleAxe on February 20, 2019 10:23PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Exactly my point. Those parses are showing altmers outparsing bretons. Lol
That are pure single target tests.
If there are two or more targets, breton will out dps altmer due to higher SD from the glyph.
Furthermore the stam reg and reduced dmg while channeling of altmer are not really useful for an endgame trial scenario.
But the 3,5% reduced magick dmg truely are.
I put zero points in hardy for actual trials like vCR or vAS because there is only magick dmg.
Cherry picking scenarios to make a point. Yeah i know ive heard that before.0 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No one is happy with this PTS except Orc mains and maybe Breton mains, or delusional ZoS fanboys who think their dedication will garner them some special attention from the company. I've never experienced such denial in a player community before, the optimism from these vocal few is on the level of fanaticism.7
