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Literally no one is happy with Altmer spell recharge atm, why are they so stubborn?
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Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »To anyone who likes the latest version of this passive, have you tried using a stamina recovery enchant? Or stamina recovery food? Or Amber Plasm? Or Shacklebreaker? Or even Invigorating trait? There are numerous ways to efficiently incorporate stamina sustain into a Magicka build.
For Magicka PVE builds, however, there are zero ways to efficiently change useless stamina regen into Magicka Regen. The old passive works for everyone, the new passive is halfway decent on a small subcategory of builds and useless to the vast majority.
And if someone was truly going to depend on racial passives for stamina on a Magicka build, they would be better off going Dunmer and getting free Fire Resistance along with 1800 Stamina. We really don’t need 2 different hybrid Magicka Elf races, and only one is lore-friendly.
You could spec into stamina Regen, but the same argument can be made for running one mag recovery glyph. But currently you don't need Stam Regen with this passive.
Personally, I'm going to spec for all damage, and use the stamina to dodge roll and fuel dark exchange.
People are making it sound like it will be a huge stamina regen passive, it will give 215 stamina regen which is useless on its own unless you invest i stamina regen. You need way too much stamina regen in order to dodge roll reliably3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »I mean all other passives have nays and yays but this one is nays. Not a single person says it good or useful or even makes sense. I can imagine the person who came up with this idea is so upset no one liked his idea he got even more stubborn and is keeping it just to spite those who criticized his idea. There is no other explanation for it to stay for live.
They could literally give Altmers anything that doesn't directly affect dps like a healing passive or a defensive passive, but what the heck is that?
I am happy, so you may want to use a different term than "literally Everyone"...
"Literally everyone who plays PvE"3 -
Ogou✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »I mean all other passives have nays and yays but this one is nays. Not a single person says it good or useful or even makes sense. I can imagine the person who came up with this idea is so upset no one liked his idea he got even more stubborn and is keeping it just to spite those who criticized his idea. There is no other explanation for it to stay for live.
They could literally give Altmers anything that doesn't directly affect dps like a healing passive or a defensive passive, but what the heck is that?
I am happy, so you may want to use a different term than "literally Everyone"...
"Literally everyone who plays PvE"
Literally? Are you sure about that? I'm sure I can find at least one.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »To anyone who likes the latest version of this passive, have you tried using a stamina recovery enchant? Or stamina recovery food? Or Amber Plasm? Or Shacklebreaker? Or even Invigorating trait? There are numerous ways to efficiently incorporate stamina sustain into a Magicka build.
For Magicka PVE builds, however, there are zero ways to efficiently change useless stamina regen into Magicka Regen. The old passive works for everyone, the new passive is halfway decent on a small subcategory of builds and useless to the vast majority.
And if someone was truly going to depend on racial passives for stamina on a Magicka build, they would be better off going Dunmer and getting free Fire Resistance along with 1800 Stamina. We really don’t need 2 different hybrid Magicka Elf races, and only one is lore-friendly.
I don't *like* the new passive. Obviously the old one was better for most players. I just wonder ... with the old Spell Recharge passive, why would anyone ever choose anything other than Altmer for any PvE magicka DPS?
But as for the new passive and how it relates to PvP ... of course. But I already run Amberplasm on my PvP magsorc. Now I can switch to something else. Probably Bright Throat.
So assuming everything else remains the same, I go from:
Amberplasm:
+1096 max magicka
+833 spell critical
+129 spell damage
+250 magicka regen
+250 stamina regen
Bright throat + Spell Recharge:
+4192 max magicka
+279 magicka regen
+200 stamina regen (assuming 90% uptime on Spell Recharge which will probably be lower in practice)
Of course, comparing Live to PTS, I'll also be losing the 9% buff to my base magicka regen.
The funny thing about this passive to me on a sorc is that you basically instantly refund a third of the cost of Dark Conversion when you cast it.
@LiquidPony IMO the Magicka DPS races were pretty well balanced in 4.3.0. Khajiit were best for Crit builds with good Warhorn uptime. Bretons were best for sustained damage without much group support for sustain, or anywhere that Spell Resistance and more health from bistat food were beneficial. Altmer were the most glass cannon, with damage on par with Khajiit (slightly above or below depending on group buffs), lowest health of the 3, and sustain between Khajiit and Breton.
All 3 had a niche where they were best. The main disruption to this balance was the changes to Khajiit, which now make Altmer look good in comparison despite the sustain nerf.
Dunmer were brought up to basically Altmer level, which was good. I support the long standing balance between these races: Similar burst DPS, Altmer have better sustain, while Dunmer get Fire Resistance and hybrid bonus to stamina.
I just don’t really see anything appealing about Altmer on PTS now. I’ll probably continue playing Breton as I usually do on Live. The DPS is just fine, and only going up, while sustain is good and I can spend less time on the floor than my squishy friends. Might try a Khajiit for some variety.
About your comparison, only your Bright Throat setup contains any racial passive. I’m arguing that Amber Plasm + Magicka Restore racial passive is better for everyone than Bright Throat + Stamina Restore racial passive. Not sure why people are kidding themselves into thinking the forced stamina restore is better even for hybrid PVP builds.5 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »I mean all other passives have nays and yays but this one is nays. Not a single person says it good or useful or even makes sense. I can imagine the person who came up with this idea is so upset no one liked his idea he got even more stubborn and is keeping it just to spite those who criticized his idea. There is no other explanation for it to stay for live.
They could literally give Altmers anything that doesn't directly affect dps like a healing passive or a defensive passive, but what the heck is that?
We also have no idea why they hate frost.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale3 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭My Stamina Altmer liked 4.3.0 a lot better, the magika regen is not going to be helpful to him.
Since it's not a competitive character (no end-game and no PvP for him) it's not a big deal to me. But it might be for someone else.
Apart from that, Altmer is actually pretty good:
- top mag DPS
- top tier healer choice
- and even decent tank , I would rate them 1 place of tier 2 as they can gain stam while blocking - Vampire tanks with Invigorating Drain (block castable) for ulti gen are looking good
They only fail at being stamina, which makes sense lore wise, those guys are afraid to move a finger and break a nail, they do everything with magic
Too bad all this discussion around Altmer helped obscure the claims of races that have some really legit ones
1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »To anyone who likes the latest version of this passive, have you tried using a stamina recovery enchant? Or stamina recovery food? Or Amber Plasm? Or Shacklebreaker? Or even Invigorating trait? There are numerous ways to efficiently incorporate stamina sustain into a Magicka build.
For Magicka PVE builds, however, there are zero ways to efficiently change useless stamina regen into Magicka Regen. The old passive works for everyone, the new passive is halfway decent on a small subcategory of builds and useless to the vast majority.
And if someone was truly going to depend on racial passives for stamina on a Magicka build, they would be better off going Dunmer and getting free Fire Resistance along with 1800 Stamina. We really don’t need 2 different hybrid Magicka Elf races, and only one is lore-friendly.
I don't *like* the new passive. Obviously the old one was better for most players. I just wonder ... with the old Spell Recharge passive, why would anyone ever choose anything other than Altmer for any PvE magicka DPS?
But as for the new passive and how it relates to PvP ... of course. But I already run Amberplasm on my PvP magsorc. Now I can switch to something else. Probably Bright Throat.
So assuming everything else remains the same, I go from:
Amberplasm:
+1096 max magicka
+833 spell critical
+129 spell damage
+250 magicka regen
+250 stamina regen
Bright throat + Spell Recharge:
+4192 max magicka
+279 magicka regen
+200 stamina regen (assuming 90% uptime on Spell Recharge which will probably be lower in practice)
Of course, comparing Live to PTS, I'll also be losing the 9% buff to my base magicka regen.
The funny thing about this passive to me on a sorc is that you basically instantly refund a third of the cost of Dark Conversion when you cast it.
@LiquidPony IMO the Magicka DPS races were pretty well balanced in 4.3.0. Khajiit were best for Crit builds with good Warhorn uptime. Bretons were best for sustained damage without much group support for sustain, or anywhere that Spell Resistance and more health from bistat food were beneficial. Altmer were the most glass cannon, with damage on par with Khajiit (slightly above or below depending on group buffs), lowest health of the 3, and sustain between Khajiit and Breton.
All 3 had a niche where they were best. The main disruption to this balance was the changes to Khajiit, which now make Altmer look good in comparison despite the sustain nerf.
Dunmer were brought up to basically Altmer level, which was good. I support the long standing balance between these races: Similar burst DPS, Altmer have better sustain, while Dunmer get Fire Resistance and hybrid bonus to stamina.
I just don’t really see anything appealing about Altmer on PTS now. I’ll probably continue playing Breton as I usually do on Live. The DPS is just fine, and only going up, while sustain is good and I can spend less time on the floor than my squishy friends. Might try a Khajiit for some variety.
About your comparison, only your Bright Throat setup contains any racial passive. I’m arguing that Amber Plasm + Magicka Restore racial passive is better for everyone than Bright Throat + Stamina Restore racial passive. Not sure why people are kidding themselves into thinking the forced stamina restore is better even for hybrid PVP builds.
I would prefer Altmer to be what they were in 4.3.0. I have three Altmers on live ... magsorc, magplar, magden. They'd all be better off with the 4.3.0 Spell Recharge Passive.
I didn't like that they took sustain away from Altmer and Orc ... but as the PTS period has gone along, and I keep hitting my biggest numbers on Altmer and Orc, it does make some sense.
And I did note the 9% Magicka Regen I'd have on live with my Amberplasm setup; I just don't know what the exactly value is off the top of my head. I'm not claiming by any means that the new stamina restore passive is *better*, just that it's not entirely useless considering a lot of people do spec for stamina regen in PvP (via Amberplasm or Shacklebraker or enchants or food or whatever).1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm literally ok with the altmer changes. Off resource regen may not make a ton of sense but there is some logic and utility to it.
If it means I can hit vigor or dodge roll even one extra time in pvp then it serves a purpose.
It's harder to see on pve but they could be trying to make mechanics more important but they'd need to tone down the one shots and timed dps checks.
It's not great but it's not the end of the world for altmer.Edited by Siohwenoeht on February 20, 2019 12:30AM"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »I mean all other passives have nays and yays but this one is nays. Not a single person says it good or useful or even makes sense. I can imagine the person who came up with this idea is so upset no one liked his idea he got even more stubborn and is keeping it just to spite those who criticized his idea. There is no other explanation for it to stay for live.
They could literally give Altmers anything that doesn't directly affect dps like a healing passive or a defensive passive, but what the heck is that?
I am happy, so you may want to use a different term than "literally Everyone"...
"Literally everyone who plays PvE"
I play altmer and I’m perfectly fine with the passive as is and yes I actually have 3 high elf dps characters so try again my dudeEdited by BattleAxe on February 20, 2019 4:47AM3 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »I mean all other passives have nays and yays but this one is nays. Not a single person says it good or useful or even makes sense. I can imagine the person who came up with this idea is so upset no one liked his idea he got even more stubborn and is keeping it just to spite those who criticized his idea. There is no other explanation for it to stay for live.
They could literally give Altmers anything that doesn't directly affect dps like a healing passive or a defensive passive, but what the heck is that?
I am happy, so you may want to use a different term than "literally Everyone"...
"Literally everyone who plays PvE"
Hi, my current main is an Altmer Frostden. I like the changes. I do veteran progression and PVP on that character.
Ill be rolling a Dunmer stamblade soon, but my Frostden is staying altmer.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade3 -
Kalle_Demos✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »I'm literally ok with the altmer changes. Off resource regen may not make a ton of sense but there is some logic and utility to it.
If it means I can hit vigor or dodge roll even one extra time in pvp then it serves a purpose.
It's harder to see on pve but they could be trying to make mechanics more important but they'd need to tone down the one shots and timed dps checks.
It's not great but it's not the end of the world for altmer.
There are other options in-game that one could utilize on a Mag based character if stam is that much of an issue. Taking a race strong in Magic and saddling all Altmer players with a passive that obviously lacks universal applicability, lore relevance and is contrary to the racial identity of the Altmer, ALL of this being the opposite of ZOS stated goals, is an ill-conceived solution to a problem that no one had.
"If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn3 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kalle_Demos wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »I'm literally ok with the altmer changes. Off resource regen may not make a ton of sense but there is some logic and utility to it.
If it means I can hit vigor or dodge roll even one extra time in pvp then it serves a purpose.
It's harder to see on pve but they could be trying to make mechanics more important but they'd need to tone down the one shots and timed dps checks.
It's not great but it's not the end of the world for altmer.
There are other options in-game that one could utilize on a Mag based character if stam is that much of an issue. Taking a race strong in Magic and saddling all Altmer players with a passive that obviously lacks universal applicability, lore relevance and is contrary to the racial identity of the Altmer, ALL of this being the opposite of ZOS stated goals, is an ill-conceived solution to a problem that no one had.
It's definitely not perfect. Devs didn't want any racial passives to be both high damage and high regen however. This was their compromise for altmer. Given how some of the other racials were configured I'll take the extra regen on off resource and at least give it a go Altmer could've ended up with crit chance after roll dodge after all..............."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.4 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Probably waiting for people to test the changes on live instead of talk about them on the forums.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS is very stubborn like the captain going down with the ship I remember that 60+ page thread for sorc feedback 60+ pages telling zos not to nerf sorc shield duration more than a year ago and they did it anyway the reason I don't even post in any of the class feedback threads anymore its a waste if time. also going through the Morrowind nerfs is another lolXbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.3 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭You isnt only one who thinks they did it wrong. (racials)
I wanted too to remove argonian Resourceful and give them something else but only what they could do is nerfing. That is answer for every problem
Nerf,nerf,nerf.2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.Edited by Seraphayel on February 20, 2019 6:16AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -7 -
Vulsahdaal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Ive been saying it all along, but Ill say it again.
Its not about Altmer regaining mag regen.
To me, and I suspect quite a few others, its not about Altmer not being the top pick for mag class. As can be seen in my sig, I have 3 top level magsorcs. One is an Altmer (as anyone can guess from my posts
) and an other is Breton. My bases are covered.
If my Altmer can no longer complete content that he used to (and thats what its really about to me, not the dps numbers) I will be upset of course, but at least I have my Breton to fall back on if needed.
What this is about to me, is that this 'spell' recharge is dumb, lore breaking, and completely useless. At least, thats what it was about until yesterday, then I started to look at the stam characters situation.
After doing so, I now believe that 'spell' recharge is not only dumb, lore breaking and useless but also ZOS trolling Altmers. How so?
If it is a case of damage vs sustain, as you say then compare two damage characters:
Altmer: + 2000 mag
Orc: + 2000 stam
Altmer: + 258 spell dam
Orc: + 258 weapon dam
Looks like two sides of the same coin. Then:
Altmer: + 645 stam when activating an ability. 6 second cooldown.
Orc: + 1000 health and heals up to 600 health when deals weapon damage. 4 second cooldown.
Why does Altmer not have this health passive? At least for the sake of consistancy?
Or instead of health, give Orc 645 mag 'return' every 6 seconds?
Because giving Orc magicka is somehow wrong, but giving Altmer stamina is right?
Sorry, still feels like trolling to me..
7 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can give Altmer Health on top / instead of Stamina. That's what I've suggested. Orcs have the health addition because they were mostly used as tanks. They couldn't get Stamina so it was down to Health or Magicka - and ZOS chose the Health way because of Orcs being a former tank race I guess. To be honest I think even giving them Magicka instead of Health wouldn't hurt them much either and would be good for tanks, too.
You can rate Spell Recharge as useless due to your personal opinion, that's fine (for me and many other Altmer players it's not useless btw) but you cannot rate it as lore-breaking because it's not. Altmer still have three other racials dedicated to their magic potential so they lose nothing in that regard with Spell Recharge in it's current state lore-wise.Edited by Seraphayel on February 20, 2019 11:05AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were not the top DPS pick in endgame PvE
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 20, 2019 11:15AM3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vulsahdaal wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Ive been saying it all along, but Ill say it again.
Its not about Altmer regaining mag regen.
To me, and I suspect quite a few others, its not about Altmer not being the top pick for mag class. As can be seen in my sig, I have 3 top level magsorcs. One is an Altmer (as anyone can guess from my posts ) and an other is Breton. My bases are covered.
If my Altmer can no longer complete content that he used to (and thats what its really about to me, not the dps numbers) I will be upset of course, but at least I have my Breton to fall back on if needed.
What this is about to me, is that this 'spell' recharge is dumb, lore breaking, and completely useless. At least, thats what it was about until yesterday, then I started to look at the stam characters situation.
After doing so, I now believe that 'spell' recharge is not only dumb, lore breaking and useless but also ZOS trolling Altmers. How so?
If it is a case of damage vs sustain, as you say then compare two damage characters:
Altmer: + 2000 mag
Orc: + 2000 stam
Altmer: + 258 spell dam
Orc: + 258 weapon dam
Looks like two sides of the same coin. Then:
Altmer: + 645 stam when activating an ability. 6 second cooldown.
Orc: + 1000 health and heals up to 600 health when deals weapon damage. 4 second cooldown.
Why does Altmer not have this health passive? At least for the sake of consistancy?
Or instead of health, give Orc 645 mag 'return' every 6 seconds?
Because giving Orc magicka is somehow wrong, but giving Altmer stamina is right?
Sorry, still feels like trolling to me..
They couldn't have come up with a more useless passive than stamina regen for a magicka DD race. As you said, why not give orcs magicka regen? Apply the same principle...
At least health and health regen is universally useful.
Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 20, 2019 11:24AM4 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.Edited by Seraphayel on February 20, 2019 11:25AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.
It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.
The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.
You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.
The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.
This is why there are entire well thought-out posts with ‘how to change ‘Spell’ recharge without effecting parses. I think most people understood all the parses done which show little difference, but they wanted an overall usefull passive. Also, Dunmer spell damage for fire abilities while keeping them balanced the way they are... it’s not much to ask really. Same with Bosmer stealth. No balance will change and people whining over people whining made clear to me that this pts screwed this forum and quite a lot of people.
4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 20, 2019 12:04PM1 -
Razorback174✭✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »How about you read the developer notes to get your answer.
It was changed to make Altmer NOT the complete best pick for any magica build. They had spell damage AND magic regen, compared to breton who had just regen.
The new system leaves everything very well balanced damage wise, and gives Altmer a racial to help them in PVP and PVE survivability.
You could have suggested other changes, but the Altmer community was too *** focused on crying for their old magic regen back, dispite what the developers had already said, that the opportunity has passed you by. You just want Altmer to be unquestionably better than every other race. Rather then suggesting another balanced utility passive that you would have preffered, you spent the last month asking for a reversal, or more spell damage, or more magica.
The altmer community did this to themselves, but would rather blame ZOS for not listening. You didnt listen to ZOS. Dont expect anything else in return.
This is why there are entire well thought-out posts with ‘how to change ‘Spell’ recharge without effecting parses. I think most people understood all the parses done which show little difference, but they wanted an overall usefull passive. Also, Dunmer spell damage for fire abilities while keeping them balanced the way they are... it’s not much to ask really. Same with Bosmer stealth. No balance will change and people whining over people whining made clear to me that this pts screwed this forum and quite a lot of people.
This. For goodness sake, there are hundreds of posts begging to give Bosmer their stealthy identity back.
Does that help their DPS? Does that make them BiS? Does that make them a meta race?
No, it does not. So everyone clinging to the "DPS parses are similar, you just want them to be OP" mentality are missing the forest for the trees. There's more to this game than wailing on a target dummy.7 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now.
The only thing that's not consistent is the reduced costs on Magicka skills that Bretons have because it varies greatly from class to class and build to build (might always be 7% but the real amount is always different). 258 Spell Damage is always applied in the same amount to every build and every class using respective spells. If something is consistent it's the extra damage from Altmers in U21. If Dunmer "damage" now is consistent and Dunmer > Altmer in that regard then Altmer "damage" after the update is consistent, too, and Altmer > Breton (as long as we apply your logic).Edited by Seraphayel on February 20, 2019 12:06PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
VeiledCriticism✭✭✭I mean, Orc is the stamina equivalent of Altmer, both have 2k of main resources and 258 Weapon/Spell Damage.
Altmer 'flavour' is stamina Regen and mediocre 5% reduced damage while casting.. In the meanwhile Orcs gets 1k Health, Health Regen, increase speed and reduced Sprint cost.
"Balance" at it's finest.7 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It's 100% pure cash grab.
They know min-maxers picked Altmer in the first place for their universally useful passives, and by gorking the class's identity (along with Argonian and Redguard) they'll pressure a lot of those people to switch >3 characters, so they make boatloads of money on strategically planned consumer dissatisfaction. They're banking on video game addiction overpowering ethical consumerism, and they're probably right.
Altmer as they are on live server never had a chance of staying the same after the changes. A nerf was mandatory. Altmer were clearly overpowered in the Magicka regard and have always been the top pick for 5 years (yes I know somebody will bring up Dunmer because of [reasons] but guess what, Dunmer never had Sustain to begin with so why is it an issue now all of a sudden for Altmer?).
On live they have: more Magicka, sustain AND more elemental damage. And as sustain and damage are excluding each other by ZOS design philosophy it was obvious that they lose either the additional damage or sustain. They lost sustain. Deal with it.
To call the changes a "cash grab" is so dumb when it's just balance brought to ESO in 2019. Altmer are still the top pick for Magicka so why the hell is there even a reason to complain.
They're too similar to Dunmer now? Who the hell cared about that during the last years? Nobody.
Dunmer gets Stamina and can change to a Stamina build now - okay, what's the problem? Altmer never had that option so you lose nothing because when you created an Altmer you basically did not care about Stamina at all. Now you can say "yeah that's why I don't like Spell Recharge" but when you look at the numbers it doesn't even matter because even without Spell Recharge affecting Magicka Altmer DPS potential is extraordinary.
Adapt to the changes. You lost sustain because you had to lose something. Would you have preferred to lose Magicka or spell damage? Guess not. I know all of you would have preferred to stay the same, keep all the bonuses and be the superior Magicka race for another 5 years. Wake up, that's not balance.
Posts like this show you've never ventured anywhere near endgame PvE content (I'm assuming your frame of reference is strictly PvP or overland PvE). Altmer were never the top DPS pick.
You picked them over Dunmer if you wanted to trade a little damage for a little sustain. But in an optimised group, Dunmer were always preferred.
Ah yeah, you traded them in for "a little sustain" to gain some "little damage".
Now:
Altmer: more sustain vs. Dunmer: more damage
-> suggested top pick: Dunmer because of more damage (3% more fire damage, 2% less shock and frost damage though)
After changes:
Altmer: more damage vs. Breton: more sustain
-> suggested top pick: Breton because of more sustain
Now you pick Dunmer because you can pass on sustain (9% Magicka recovery) but after the changes you pick Breton because you all of a sudden need the sustain? By your logic you'd prefer Altmer in an optimised group after the changes but you're still insisting on Bretons are better.
Because the extra damage versus Breton isn't consistent. You would consistently outparse Altmer with Dunmer on live right now. That isn't the case on PTS right now with Altmer and Breton.
On PTS altmers consistently outparse bretons. What are you even talking about?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1
Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 20, 2019 1:55PM4
