and something for stam dps

Narthalion wrote: »

I still feel like the 10% crit dmg/heal was given to the wrong race. Khajiit should have kept their crit% chance.

Instead, replace Argonian's 6% healing done with 10% crit dmg/healing. This would have given Argonians a damage bonus to make them more attractive for other roles, while still boosting their healing.

Missed opportunity, imho.

My thoughts exactly!.
Khajiit crit chance (Thief Mundus, abeilt weaker, 7% would have been the balanced spot)), Lore friendly (affinity with Thievery, at least in ESO)
Argonains 10% crit damage + 10% crit healing ( Shadow Mundus, abeilt weaker in damage department but also affecting healing) - Lore friendly (see Shadowscale)

And both races would have gained a FUN factor, instead of being plain boring:
- Khajiit: shoehorned high crit build and NB sniper.
- Argonian shoehorned in mediocre healers and PvP scapegoat.

Narthalion wrote: »

I still feel like the 10% crit dmg/heal was given to the wrong race. Khajiit should have kept their crit% chance.

Instead, replace Argonian's 6% healing done with 10% crit dmg/healing. This would have given Argonians a damage bonus to make them more attractive for other roles, while still boosting their healing.

Missed opportunity, imho.

I really not wanted to be forced, creating Argonion Lizard!

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I would like to express my final comments on Argonian changes but I would probably get banned from the forums.

Same... :'(

Tasear wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Narthalion wrote: »

I still feel like the 10% crit dmg/heal was given to the wrong race. Khajiit should have kept their crit% chance.

Instead, replace Argonian's 6% healing done with 10% crit dmg/healing. This would have given Argonians a damage bonus to make them more attractive for other roles, while still boosting their healing.

Missed opportunity, imho.

I really not wanted to be forced, creating Argonion Lizard!

So you are just a keyboard racist so nothing you say should matter then? Our passives suck anyone who actually plays this race agrees.

I disagree potion passives leaves a lot of things open.

Sorry but that potion passive isn't an excuse for all our other passives to be aimed at pretty much healing. Where is this so called Freedom they flaunted to be able to be competitive at any build I choose? Nothing but that stupid pot passives helps me on Stamblade, because I like Shadowscales and want to be able to dual wield daggers and stab things.

Arciris wrote: »

I think one of the biggest issues with Beastfolks in general is that prejudiced people think players playing them are "Furries" (which, obviously, isn't necessarily so and actually most likely is not)

Because of that prejudice,those people only see those races as "boots" or "coats" and react quite violently when any of those races makes it into the top tier (not saying OP, just within the top 3).

Because it is beneath them to play with a tail (curiously, pointy ears don't upset them).

Remember the uproar when they tried to give Khajiit some stamina, almost 2 years ago? I remember

To me it is weird because most of the time those people only think in terms of numbers, pretty much nothing else matters, But if you throw a tail into the equation, they will find any argument to throw the Beastfolks back to their cage.

Those prejudice people seem to be more on the PvE side of the game, especially end-game PvE.
For some reason, PvPer's seem to have a more open mind.

This could make an interesting case study

I doubt it's 'one of the biggest issues', but I don't disagree that it's a thing. Just look at WoW and the Vulpera/Snek-folk. People become outraged if there's anything other than some combination of dark/white/tanned human and then that + pointy ears.

As for Argonian, I think they could use a /small/ boost that is unrelated to DPS - p much agree with the OP. DPS isn't everything, but atm Argonians aren't competitive at...anything, IIRC, in PvE? Even (supposedly) PvP oriented races should, imo, have something to offer in other areas of the game. Maybe attach something else to potion use as well so that it requires investment/upkeep? Idk.

Tonturri wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

I think one of the biggest issues with Beastfolks in general is that prejudiced people think players playing them are "Furries" (which, obviously, isn't necessarily so and actually most likely is not)

Because of that prejudice,those people only see those races as "boots" or "coats" and react quite violently when any of those races makes it into the top tier (not saying OP, just within the top 3).

Because it is beneath them to play with a tail (curiously, pointy ears don't upset them).

Remember the uproar when they tried to give Khajiit some stamina, almost 2 years ago? I remember

To me it is weird because most of the time those people only think in terms of numbers, pretty much nothing else matters, But if you throw a tail into the equation, they will find any argument to throw the Beastfolks back to their cage.

Those prejudice people seem to be more on the PvE side of the game, especially end-game PvE.
For some reason, PvPer's seem to have a more open mind.

This could make an interesting case study

I doubt it's 'one of the biggest issues', but I don't disagree that it's a thing. Just look at WoW and the Vulpera/Snek-folk. People become outraged if there's anything other than some combination of dark/white/tanned human and then that + pointy ears.

As for Argonian, I think they could use a /small/ boost that is unrelated to DPS - p much agree with the OP. DPS isn't everything, but atm Argonians aren't competitive at...anything, IIRC, in PvE? Even (supposedly) PvP oriented races should, imo, have something to offer in other areas of the game. Maybe attach something else to potion use as well so that it requires investment/upkeep? Idk.

I said "biggest" issue because any improvement developers try to make to these races are met with the Pitchforks people.
And always, the developers back down. Even if there wasn't an objective reason to do so (just look at the last minute change to poor Khajiits)

Tasear wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Narthalion wrote: »

I still feel like the 10% crit dmg/heal was given to the wrong race. Khajiit should have kept their crit% chance.

Instead, replace Argonian's 6% healing done with 10% crit dmg/healing. This would have given Argonians a damage bonus to make them more attractive for other roles, while still boosting their healing.

Missed opportunity, imho.

I really not wanted to be forced, creating Argonion Lizard!

So you are just a keyboard racist so nothing you say should matter then? Our passives suck anyone who actually plays this race agrees.

I disagree potion passives leaves a lot of things open.

The potion passive is overestimated by literally everyone that doesn't play an Argonian. I'd do better playing an Imperial than I would an Argonian since Red Diamond is essentially the same in terms of sustain while having more overall utility than the potion passive could ever hope to match.

In PvE, the potion passive only grants 1 relevant stat restore as the health is negligible (if the healer is even remotely decent) and the off stat is often wasted. Only Tanks can make effective use out of it and even then, more often than not a Tristat Pot alone can cover for the majority of it, if not all of it. In PvP, it's pretty much just a catch up mechanic to make up for what other races had naturally. The health return is cut in half so really not much restored there, the offstat was restored enough for 1, maybe 2 more utilities and the primary resource restore was just being on par with that of another, better suited race; You traded their damage for a little extra utility usage and that's about it. The primary issue with the potion passive was when PvP tanks would use it because they could sustain forever and just never die without a zerg wasting 30 minutes to kill them and I've seen plenty of non-Argonian tanks do similarly well that I can't help but feel the potion passive is overestimated there too.

It's just not that helpful in most situations, and the times that it is helpful in are very few and far between.

as a whole, the way Argonians have been changed is a very "zos" thing to do. People complained it was OP in pvp or whatever, so ZOS makes a drastic decision not so much for the sake of balance, but just to appease the people complaining the loudest

it's more or less how they've always been, and the frustration lies in their unwillingness to realise that

No words. Just big dissapointment ( as argonian dps )

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

The increased Disease resistance and status immunity is not worth it. Would rather get rid of both these bonuses (or keep it at current level if the lore behind it is important), and have back extra 1k bonus to health we're missing and an amount to healing received.

That is all.

its slightly out of controll in pvp atm, the changes were well deserved.

Keep healing received gone.

Arciris wrote: »

Narthalion wrote: »

I still feel like the 10% crit dmg/heal was given to the wrong race. Khajiit should have kept their crit% chance.

Instead, replace Argonian's 6% healing done with 10% crit dmg/healing. This would have given Argonians a damage bonus to make them more attractive for other roles, while still boosting their healing.

Missed opportunity, imho.

My thoughts exactly!.
Khajiit crit chance (Thief Mundus, abeilt weaker, 7% would have been the balanced spot)), Lore friendly (affinity with Thievery, at least in ESO)
Argonains 10% crit damage + 10% crit healing ( Shadow Mundus, abeilt weaker in damage department but also affecting healing) - Lore friendly (see Shadowscale)

And both races would have gained a FUN factor, instead of being plain boring:
- Khajiit: shoehorned high crit build and NB sniper.
- Argonian shoehorned in mediocre healers and PvP scapegoat.

I actually really like this idea. I agree argonian got screwed in this patch worse than anyone but the toxic/venomous responses in the forum aren't going to help. This is a constructive post.

The healing received loss is my biggest gripe. I really don't care about the potion passive change. Rather than fighting it I'm just simply rerolling my warden pve tank with one token. It sucks because i spent a lot of time and crowns and gold collecting the frost caster motif, ice skin, and outfit changing and I'm sure it wont look as cool as it does on my argonian tank.

My main issue with everyone saying "build around it" is that it is by far the most expensive passive to take advantage of. Potions, especially good ones, are expensive. Infused jewelry takes 150 transmutes and gives up triune for tanks, or weapon/spell damage for dps. I cant really think of any other race that is required to spend so much just to take full advantage of a passive.

Any suggestions for a new race for utility swapping between mag dps and tank? Its all I do on this toon, all pve. When tanking I run ebon, lord warden, and alkosh with vMA ice staff backbar and 64 health, and dps i run winterborn, iceheart, and torugs, vma ice and 64 mag. My first thought is Breton. My biggest issue with this build was always mag sustain. Tempted to go imperial but they wont satisfy the utility of mag dps probably.

ascan7 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Now they getting balanaced

Nope
no reason to nerf quick to mend

Agreed. Basically argonian is reverted back to where they were when nobody wanted to use them. So all the changes to make them better were completely removed.

Give back healing received and takeaway the potion passive nonsense and just give us 2k stam and mag or some equivalent change like other races are getting this patch, or crit like others suggested.