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Another problem with Altmer passives
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Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Breton's cost reduction is just too difficult to balance. ZOS had a good idea by using absolute values instead of percentages, but blow it immediately by giving Bretons THAT.
Regeneration-Equivalent of Cost Reduction is relatively easy to calculate though:
CostPerSecond * %CostReduction * 2 * (1+%CostReduction)
Times 2 is needed to adjust the savings per second to savings per 2 seconds since Regeneration Values are based on 2 second intervals.
(1+%CostReduction) is needed to adjust for Cost Reduction being more effective than Resource Increase- i.e. 10% more resources is less valuable than 10% cost reduction.
Simple Example:
You have maximum resource is 100 units and an ability costs 10 units. This means you can use your ability 10 times (100/10 = 10).
If you decrease the cost by 10% the ability now only cost 9 units. Which means you can use your ability 11.1 times (100/9 = 11.1).
If you increase max resources by 10% your max resource pool is 110. This means you can use your ability 11 times (110/10 = 11).
The difference between 11.1 and 11 is exactly 10% - i.e. the percentage of cost reduction.
To obtain the 11.1 ability uses you'd achieve with a cost reduction of 10% you actually have to increase your multiplier by 10% -> 0.1*1.1 = 0.11 = 11%
Max Resource pool is thus 100*(1+0.11) = 111, which translates into 111/10 = 11.1 ability uses, the exact same number as under a 10% cost reduction.
So the only true unknown variable in this equation is the CostPerSecond. But those can be obtained relatively easily ... especially by ZOS. But also by players by simply looking at how long it takes to drain the max resource pool, adjust for cost reduction on passives, gear, and enchants and you get your CostPerSecond.
Thing is, that reduction fluctuates. Because it's a percentage value. If it was flat cost reduction, your example would fit. But between weaving Force Pulses and spamming Streak, there is a ton of difference that can't be accounted for.
Not sure what you are getting at.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Breton's cost reduction is just too difficult to balance. ZOS had a good idea by using absolute values instead of percentages, but blow it immediately by giving Bretons THAT.
Regeneration-Equivalent of Cost Reduction is relatively easy to calculate though:
CostPerSecond * %CostReduction * 2 * (1+%CostReduction)
Times 2 is needed to adjust the savings per second to savings per 2 seconds since Regeneration Values are based on 2 second intervals.
(1+%CostReduction) is needed to adjust for Cost Reduction being more effective than Resource Increase- i.e. 10% more resources is less valuable than 10% cost reduction.
Simple Example:
You have maximum resource is 100 units and an ability costs 10 units. This means you can use your ability 10 times (100/10 = 10).
If you decrease the cost by 10% the ability now only cost 9 units. Which means you can use your ability 11.1 times (100/9 = 11.1).
If you increase max resources by 10% your max resource pool is 110. This means you can use your ability 11 times (110/10 = 11).
The difference between 11.1 and 11 is exactly 10% - i.e. the percentage of cost reduction.
To obtain the 11.1 ability uses you'd achieve with a cost reduction of 10% you actually have to increase your multiplier by 10% -> 0.1*1.1 = 0.11 = 11%
Max Resource pool is thus 100*(1+0.11) = 111, which translates into 111/10 = 11.1 ability uses, the exact same number as under a 10% cost reduction.
So the only true unknown variable in this equation is the CostPerSecond. But those can be obtained relatively easily ... especially by ZOS. But also by players by simply looking at how long it takes to drain the max resource pool, adjust for cost reduction on passives, gear, and enchants and you get your CostPerSecond.
Thing is, that reduction fluctuates. Because it's a percentage value. If it was flat cost reduction, your example would fit. But between weaving Force Pulses and spamming Streak, there is a ton of difference that can't be accounted for.
Not sure what you are getting at.
You'll get more use out of it using expensive skills. And that screws with balancing.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So after reading the patchnotes, I think we can call it and proclaim Altmer the new hybrid race.
Embrace the pure magic race, Bretons. Which are totally not copies of medieval knights whom are more fitting for a hybrid race.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos6 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭So after reading the patchnotes, I think we can call it and proclaim Altmer the new hybrid race.
Embrace the pure magic race, Bretons. Which are totally not copies of medieval knights whom are more fitting for a hybrid race.
i rather leave than changing to breton. *** zos for stupid *** like this.4 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Breton's cost reduction is just too difficult to balance. ZOS had a good idea by using absolute values instead of percentages, but blow it immediately by giving Bretons THAT.
Regeneration-Equivalent of Cost Reduction is relatively easy to calculate though:
CostPerSecond * %CostReduction * 2 * (1+%CostReduction)
Times 2 is needed to adjust the savings per second to savings per 2 seconds since Regeneration Values are based on 2 second intervals.
(1+%CostReduction) is needed to adjust for Cost Reduction being more effective than Resource Increase- i.e. 10% more resources is less valuable than 10% cost reduction.
Simple Example:
You have maximum resource is 100 units and an ability costs 10 units. This means you can use your ability 10 times (100/10 = 10).
If you decrease the cost by 10% the ability now only cost 9 units. Which means you can use your ability 11.1 times (100/9 = 11.1).
If you increase max resources by 10% your max resource pool is 110. This means you can use your ability 11 times (110/10 = 11).
The difference between 11.1 and 11 is exactly 10% - i.e. the percentage of cost reduction.
To obtain the 11.1 ability uses you'd achieve with a cost reduction of 10% you actually have to increase your multiplier by 10% -> 0.1*1.1 = 0.11 = 11%
Max Resource pool is thus 100*(1+0.11) = 111, which translates into 111/10 = 11.1 ability uses, the exact same number as under a 10% cost reduction.
So the only true unknown variable in this equation is the CostPerSecond. But those can be obtained relatively easily ... especially by ZOS. But also by players by simply looking at how long it takes to drain the max resource pool, adjust for cost reduction on passives, gear, and enchants and you get your CostPerSecond.
Thing is, that reduction fluctuates. Because it's a percentage value. If it was flat cost reduction, your example would fit. But between weaving Force Pulses and spamming Streak, there is a ton of difference that can't be accounted for.
Not sure what you are getting at.
You'll get more use out of it using expensive skills. And that screws with balancing.
Well that's why you work with averages. If you are just spamming expensive skills you are doing something wrong and your DPS or HPS is so bad that a poorly balanced passives won't matter anyway.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So after reading the patchnotes, I think we can call it and proclaim Altmer the new hybrid race.
Embrace the pure magic race, Bretons. Which are totally not copies of medieval knights whom are more fitting for a hybrid race.
Elves are known as formidable Archers, why is this not displayed in ESO? More Stamina for Altmer!
Bretons are as much medieval knights as Altmer are archers.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
To balance reduce Altmer magic down to 1875, this will make it equal to Dunmer.Its rly sad, the things u mentioned will never be readed by zenimax, they just dont care about balance. Some suggestions with enchants or bigger chance to apply status or some penetration are cool... and race without any sustain never will be picked
5% dmg reduction is only viable for magplar other classes dont have any beneftis so why the hell is some race dedicated to specific class when orc have beneftis on the same value passives for all classes...
Balance established.
I assume you press agree.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? A racial passive that doesn't affect every single class/situation simultaneously?! They've never done that before! I normally get so much out of the altmer lightning/fire/ice on my stam sorc and I ALWAYS get the most out of breton when playing my stamplar. It's just insane. This has never been a thing ever. What do you mean the nord cold resistance isn't used everyday?0
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grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? A racial passive that doesn't affect every single class/situation simultaneously?! They've never done that before! I normally get so much out of the altmer lightning/fire/ice on my stam sorc and I ALWAYS get the most out of breton when playing my stamplar. It's just insane. This has never been a thing ever. What do you mean the nord cold resistance isn't used everyday?
not sure if serious2 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭The balancing goal is 6.5 2pc set bonuses worth of racial passives for each race. So lets have a look at it:
Altmer- 2000 max magicka -> 2 set bonuses
- 258 Spell damage -> 2 set bonuses
- 645 stam regen every 6 seconds = 215 stam regen, which is more like 180 b/c you won't activate a class ability everytime exactly on cooldown -> 1.4 set bonuses
- 5% damage reduction while casting / channeling = 2.3k spell + physical resistance, howevery since it is conditional and almost nobody meets the condition it is effectively useless -> 0 to 0.1 set bonuses
Bretons- 2000 max magicka -> 2 set bonuses
- 7% magicka cost reduction = 600 magicka regen -> 4.6 set bonuses (average of 4000 magicka per second pre-passives)
- 100 magicka regen -> 0.8 set bonuses
- 2310 Spell Resistence -> 1 set bonus, doubled in PvP -> here 2 set bonuses
Now let's play: "Who can spot the difference".
Edit: Noticed a typo in the magicka cost reduction. It is equivalent to 600 magicka regen rather than 700. Adjusted it and the corresponding set-bonuses-equivalent. Doesn't really change much about the imbalance between the two races though.
In order to get the magicka regen you've listed from the breton reduction passive, you would have to use an ability that costs 4,285.714 magicka every second. Most spammable magicka abilities cost 2700 (before the light armor reductions), and realistically cost 1,944 magicka in 7 pieces of light armor.
The cost reduction is more roughly equivalent to 340 magicka recovery, giving equal weight to expensive abilities (4050 magicka cost, pre-light armor reductions) and spammable abilities (2700 magicka cost, pre-light armor reductions) and taking into account the 28% cost reduction full light armor provides. This would bring down the total number of "set bonuses" breton receives to ~6.4, with a conditional ~7.4 when their resistances double.
But I would argue that even this is over-inflating the value of the cost reduction, as flat regen would benefit from regen % modifiers and reduction does not. Flat regen would potentially be 48% more potent (with 7 pieces of light armor and 100% uptime on spell power potions). Then you add CP bonuses to regen % modifier on top of that, even further widening the gap between reduction and flat regen.
I think these two races are pretty in line with one another.Edited by twing1_ on February 11, 2019 11:46PM0 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? A racial passive that doesn't affect every single class/situation simultaneously?! They've never done that before! I normally get so much out of the altmer lightning/fire/ice on my stam sorc and I ALWAYS get the most out of breton when playing my stamplar. It's just insane. This has never been a thing ever. What do you mean the nord cold resistance isn't used everyday?
That's your fault for playing a mag race as a stam char. This altmer passive is useless for mag classes.4 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭I believe the only problem with Altmer's passives is it's off-stat sustain. And not because its not balanced, only because it is imposing on Dunmer's racial identity. Here is a detailed explanation as to why:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457979/lack-of-racial-identity-between-altmer-and-dunmer#latest0 -
qwjr8989_ESO✭✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? A racial passive that doesn't affect every single class/situation simultaneously?! They've never done that before! I normally get so much out of the altmer lightning/fire/ice on my stam sorc and I ALWAYS get the most out of breton when playing my stamplar. It's just insane. This has never been a thing ever. What do you mean the nord cold resistance isn't used everyday?
That's your fault for playing a mag race as a stam char. This altmer passive is useless for mag classes.
Your right! The orc bonuses always have helped my bowbow warden when i use bash or...whatever melee attack i have. And the stealth bonuses of wood elf have always helped my 2h/dw stamplar in pvp.Edited by qwjr8989_ESO on February 12, 2019 12:16AM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Breton's cost reduction is just too difficult to balance. ZOS had a good idea by using absolute values instead of percentages, but blow it immediately by giving Bretons THAT.
Regeneration-Equivalent of Cost Reduction is relatively easy to calculate though:
CostPerSecond * %CostReduction * 2 * (1+%CostReduction)
Times 2 is needed to adjust the savings per second to savings per 2 seconds since Regeneration Values are based on 2 second intervals.
(1+%CostReduction) is needed to adjust for Cost Reduction being more effective than Resource Increase- i.e. 10% more resources is less valuable than 10% cost reduction.
Simple Example:
You have maximum resource is 100 units and an ability costs 10 units. This means you can use your ability 10 times (100/10 = 10).
If you decrease the cost by 10% the ability now only cost 9 units. Which means you can use your ability 11.1 times (100/9 = 11.1).
If you increase max resources by 10% your max resource pool is 110. This means you can use your ability 11 times (110/10 = 11).
The difference between 11.1 and 11 is exactly 10% - i.e. the percentage of cost reduction.
To obtain the 11.1 ability uses you'd achieve with a cost reduction of 10% you actually have to increase your multiplier by 10% -> 0.1*1.1 = 0.11 = 11%
Max Resource pool is thus 100*(1+0.11) = 111, which translates into 111/10 = 11.1 ability uses, the exact same number as under a 10% cost reduction.
So the only true unknown variable in this equation is the CostPerSecond. But those can be obtained relatively easily ... especially by ZOS. But also by players by simply looking at how long it takes to drain the max resource pool, adjust for cost reduction on passives, gear, and enchants and you get your CostPerSecond.
Thing is, that reduction fluctuates. Because it's a percentage value. If it was flat cost reduction, your example would fit. But between weaving Force Pulses and spamming Streak, there is a ton of difference that can't be accounted for.
Not sure what you are getting at.
You'll get more use out of it using expensive skills. And that screws with balancing.
Well that's why you work with averages. If you are just spamming expensive skills you are doing something wrong and your DPS or HPS is so bad that a poorly balanced passives won't matter anyway.
But how do you balance for average when varying costs are involved? Look, when I'm doing Streak-Streak-Streak-Streak-Conversion-Conversion, I'm getting A LOT out of cost reduction. Same with spamming Healing Ward and Harness. It clearly overperforms here. But you can't just nerf it down, because this would screw mentioned steady magicka usage in PvE.
Make it flat cost reduction value, not percentage, and those problems don't come up.0 -
Narthalion✭✭✭qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? A racial passive that doesn't affect every single class/situation simultaneously?! They've never done that before! I normally get so much out of the altmer lightning/fire/ice on my stam sorc and I ALWAYS get the most out of breton when playing my stamplar. It's just insane. This has never been a thing ever. What do you mean the nord cold resistance isn't used everyday?
A racial passive that helps every class/situation? You mean like the new Imperial cost reduction? Khajiit triple stat and regen? Argonian potion bonus restore? Like those?
Seems they've managed such things.
But still, I sorta agree. If we were asking for "good in all cases" that would be pretty unreasonable. Good thing nobody was actually asking for that, but thanks for your 'straw-man argument' contribution to this thread.
One class out of five can use this passive. A still fairly weak case for a second class (sorcs). And the bonus itself is pretty weak to begin with. If the couple people saying it works with heavy attacks are correct, then it's not quite so bad as the tooltip seems, and I can live with it. If it turns out they're wrong, then this passive is too niche and should be reworked. This is hardly the unreasonable expectation that you're trying to make it out to be.2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭The balancing goal is 6.5 2pc set bonuses worth of racial passives for each race. So lets have a look at it:
Altmer- 2000 max magicka -> 2 set bonuses
- 258 Spell damage -> 2 set bonuses
- 645 stam regen every 6 seconds = 215 stam regen, which is more like 180 b/c you won't activate a class ability everytime exactly on cooldown -> 1.4 set bonuses
- 5% damage reduction while casting / channeling = 2.3k spell + physical resistance, howevery since it is conditional and almost nobody meets the condition it is effectively useless -> 0 to 0.1 set bonuses
Bretons- 2000 max magicka -> 2 set bonuses
- 7% magicka cost reduction = 600 magicka regen -> 4.6 set bonuses (average of 4000 magicka per second pre-passives)
- 100 magicka regen -> 0.8 set bonuses
- 2310 Spell Resistence -> 1 set bonus, doubled in PvP -> here 2 set bonuses
Now let's play: "Who can spot the difference".
Edit: Noticed a typo in the magicka cost reduction. It is equivalent to 600 magicka regen rather than 700. Adjusted it and the corresponding set-bonuses-equivalent. Doesn't really change much about the imbalance between the two races though.
In order to get the magicka regen you've listed from the breton reduction passive, you would have to use an ability that costs 4,285.714 magicka every second. Most spammable magicka abilities cost 2700 (before the light armor reductions), and realistically cost 1,944 magicka in 7 pieces of light armor.
The cost reduction is more roughly equivalent to 340 magicka recovery, giving equal weight to expensive abilities (4050 magicka cost, pre-light armor reductions) and spammable abilities (2700 magicka cost, pre-light armor reductions) and taking into account the 28% cost reduction full light armor provides. This would bring down the total number of "set bonuses" breton receives to ~6.4, with a conditional ~7.4 when their resistances double.
But I would argue that even this is over-inflating the value of the cost reduction, as flat regen would benefit from regen % modifiers and reduction does not. Flat regen would potentially be 48% more potent (with 7 pieces of light armor and 100% uptime on spell power potions). Then you add CP bonuses to regen % modifier on top of that, even further widening the gap between reduction and flat regen.
I think these two races are pretty in line with one another.
I explained the reasoning behind the large magicka per second cost above, maybe you missed that post.
As for regen being buffed by other passives ... that would actually increase the imbalance between Altmers and Bretons even more since Bretons got regen while Altmers don't. Remember, Altmer got no magicka regen and that stamina regen it got is a proc which should not be modified by passives etc. Bretons on the other hand got 100 magicka regen, which as you pointed out is actually somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to 170. Thank you for illustrating yet another advantage of Bretons.
You people are way too focused on parses. Those 2.3k to 4.6k resistances are not showing anywhere in those parses. Neither is the uselessness of the 5% Templar-only passive revealed.2 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭The balancing goal is 6.5 2pc set bonuses worth of racial passives for each race. So lets have a look at it:
Altmer- 2000 max magicka -> 2 set bonuses
- 258 Spell damage -> 2 set bonuses
- 645 stam regen every 6 seconds = 215 stam regen, which is more like 180 b/c you won't activate a class ability everytime exactly on cooldown -> 1.4 set bonuses
- 5% damage reduction while casting / channeling = 2.3k spell + physical resistance, howevery since it is conditional and almost nobody meets the condition it is effectively useless -> 0 to 0.1 set bonuses
Bretons- 2000 max magicka -> 2 set bonuses
- 7% magicka cost reduction = 600 magicka regen -> 4.6 set bonuses (average of 4000 magicka per second pre-passives)
- 100 magicka regen -> 0.8 set bonuses
- 2310 Spell Resistence -> 1 set bonus, doubled in PvP -> here 2 set bonuses
Now let's play: "Who can spot the difference".
Edit: Noticed a typo in the magicka cost reduction. It is equivalent to 600 magicka regen rather than 700. Adjusted it and the corresponding set-bonuses-equivalent. Doesn't really change much about the imbalance between the two races though.
In order to get the magicka regen you've listed from the breton reduction passive, you would have to use an ability that costs 4,285.714 magicka every second. Most spammable magicka abilities cost 2700 (before the light armor reductions), and realistically cost 1,944 magicka in 7 pieces of light armor.
The cost reduction is more roughly equivalent to 340 magicka recovery, giving equal weight to expensive abilities (4050 magicka cost, pre-light armor reductions) and spammable abilities (2700 magicka cost, pre-light armor reductions) and taking into account the 28% cost reduction full light armor provides. This would bring down the total number of "set bonuses" breton receives to ~6.4, with a conditional ~7.4 when their resistances double.
But I would argue that even this is over-inflating the value of the cost reduction, as flat regen would benefit from regen % modifiers and reduction does not. Flat regen would potentially be 48% more potent (with 7 pieces of light armor and 100% uptime on spell power potions). Then you add CP bonuses to regen % modifier on top of that, even further widening the gap between reduction and flat regen.
I think these two races are pretty in line with one another.
I explained the reasoning behind the large magicka per second cost above, maybe you missed that post.
As for regen being buffed by other passives ... that would actually increase the imbalance between Altmers and Bretons even more since Bretons got regen while Altmers don't. Remember, Altmer got no magicka regen and that stamina regen it got is a proc which should not be modified by passives etc. Bretons on the other hand got 100 magicka regen, which as you pointed out is actually somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to 170. Thank you for illustrating yet another advantage of Bretons.
You people are way too focused on parses. Those 2.3k to 4.6k resistances are not showing anywhere in those parses. Neither is the uselessness of the 5% Templar-only passive revealed.
I'm with you that altmers need something besides off-stat utility (particularly to differentiate them from the dunmer race). I just think adding magicka regen is the wrong way to go about it.
I would give them a marginal magicka utility in place of their stamina sustain. Something that doesn't increase their raw damage potential nor their magicka sustain, as they are currently in a good place on the magicka dps hierarchy.
Something like increased chance to apply status effects would be cool.
Detailed analysis and debate on this topic: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457979/lack-of-racial-identity-between-altmer-and-dunmer#latestEdited by twing1_ on February 12, 2019 2:54PM1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I didn't read most of this thread, but you all do know that cast time includes heavy attacks, right?Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »
constructive lolMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Narthalion✭✭✭I didn't read most of this thread, but you all do know that cast time includes heavy attacks, right?
This was sort of covered -- if true, the passive is at least available to all classes, and personally I can live with that. It would still be underwhelming, but at least my Altmer DK and Warden might actually see it, ever.
Could use more confirmation though. It is not obvious from the tooltip that it includes heavy attacks, and I admit with shame that I haven't had a chance to get on test to find out for myself. If you've tested and can post up a screenshot of the buff, or something along those lines, that would help.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Narthalion wrote: »I didn't read most of this thread, but you all do know that cast time includes heavy attacks, right?
This was sort of covered -- if true, the passive is at least available to all classes, and personally I can live with that. It would still be underwhelming, but at least my Altmer DK and Warden might actually see it, ever.
Could use more confirmation though. It is not obvious from the tooltip that it includes heavy attacks, and I admit with shame that I haven't had a chance to get on test to find out for myself. If you've tested and can post up a screenshot of the buff, or something along those lines, that would help.
yea and then we can have the conversation about buffing heavy attacks to get something unique to offset the risk involved in casting them.
EDIT:
casting or channeled" was the wording used for another set called soulshine. That set buffed your staff heavy attacks so I don't see why the Altmer passive won't do the same thing since heavy attacks take about a second to fire off which is the definition of a cast time in ESO.Edited by Minno on February 12, 2019 3:58PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Narthalion✭✭✭
EDIT:
casting or channeled" was the wording used for another set called soulshine. That set buffed your staff heavy attacks so I don't see why the Altmer passive won't do the same thing since heavy attacks take about a second to fire off which is the definition of a cast time in ESO.
Sure, but that's not the part that's ambiguous to me.
"Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time"
The part I question is the word "ability" and whether a heavy attack counts as an ability. If it is, does that make blocking a "channeled ability"? Or sprinting? The 'what counts as what' questions start to get muddy if "ability" means more than just a skill that I put on my bar.
I found this post from a while back:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345521/are-heavy-attacks-considered-cast-time-or-channeled-abilities-would-they-benefit-from-soulshine
...which appears to confirm that you're right, and heavy attacks are considered to be abilities. I find this encouraging but would still like to to see it confirmed on Test.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Narthalion wrote: »
EDIT:
casting or channeled" was the wording used for another set called soulshine. That set buffed your staff heavy attacks so I don't see why the Altmer passive won't do the same thing since heavy attacks take about a second to fire off which is the definition of a cast time in ESO.
Sure, but that's not the part that's ambiguous to me.
"Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time"
The part I question is the word "ability" and whether a heavy attack counts as an ability. If it is, does that make blocking a "channeled ability"? Or sprinting? The 'what counts as what' questions start to get muddy if "ability" means more than just a skill that I put on my bar.
I found this post from a while back:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345521/are-heavy-attacks-considered-cast-time-or-channeled-abilities-would-they-benefit-from-soulshine
...which appears to confirm that you're right, and heavy attacks are considered to be abilities. I find this encouraging but would still like to to see it confirmed on Test.
yea soulshine has a similar tooltip wording I think. But was used on fire staff rangplars to boost ALOT of free damage (dark flare, fire staff, jesus beam, soul assult, jabs).
Everyone should test Altmer passive to make sure it isnt bugged too lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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- Filthy Casual0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »I agree, they should just remove it. It leaves more room open for useful bonuses.
Some I've seen:
Penetration
Penetration + small regen
Enchant bonus (5% or so)
Both magicka and stamina regen from the ability
Enchabt would be good for both mag and stam buff up their staves or help buff up their dual wield enchant nerfs but would need to be like 8-10% enchant buff0 -
Narthalion✭✭✭yea and then we can have the conversation about buffing heavy attacks to get something unique to offset the risk involved in casting them.
What if this passive was expanded to boost resource restored by heavy attacks? So:
"Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time. Your heavy attacks restore X% additional resource."
...where X = some low number as determined by balancing concerns.
This would address two things at once:
- Altmer magicka sustain concerns
- the usefulness of 5% damage mitigation with casting/channeling
It wouldn't even need to be that much. I found this post:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/432118/how-are-resources-restored-when-performing-a-heavy-attack
...and if those numbers are right, then a 10% bonus would increase heavy attack restore by anywhere from 166 stamina for a dual-wield HA, to 363 magicka for a shock staff HA.
Unlike the current 9% recovery bonus, or the restore on class ability that they changed to off-stat, Altmer wouldn't benefit from this while actively DPSing. You'd have to stop and HA to take advantage of it. But when you do, you take 5% less damage and gain 10% (or however much) more resource.
Good idea? Bad idea?1
