How are 'Resources' restored when performing a Heavy Attack?

Avran_Sylt

Is it from the duration of 'rest' during the Heavy Attack?
Is it somehow siphoning it from the enemy?

What's the Thematic tie to it?

idk

It is just a mechanic of the game. It was never explained and not really very significant how. It is a fantasy game after all.

John_Falstaff

It's same kind of inexplicable mysterious magic that gives us more health and stamina and magicka the more different armor types we wear. ^^ Brutally arbitrary, logic-defying magic at work in Tamriel. ^^

Merlin13KAGL

If you're looking for a lore reason, there isn't one.

If you're looking for a functional reason, it's mostly a result of lack of creative thinking, especially when medium attacks lose DPS and grant zero resources.

It's the weaponized version of focusing your Chi, I suppose, with the increased duration of the channel somehow attributing to the return (because increasing recovery during the channel would have been far too easy).

Aedaryl

You get ressource on heavy attack when the attack is fully charged and successfully hit.

Heavy attack ressource gain is based on the lengh of the attack, the more slow the attack is, the more ressource the attack give.

Here is the base value of heavy attacks with no passive modifier :

• Bow HA: 2724 Stamina
• Dual Wield HA : 1667 Stamina
• 2H HA :2426 Stamina
• 1H&S HA : 2014 Stamina
• Fire/Frost staff HA : 2823 Magicka
• Shock staff HA: 3633 Magicka
• Restoration staff HA : 3219 Magicka (note there is a 30% more ressource passive that can be added with Cycle of life) : 4184 magicka
• Werewolf HA : 1617 Stamina (note there is a 100% more ressource passive that can be added with Pursuit) : 3234 stamina

If your ennemy block (for channeled only the last tick need to be blocked) or dodge (channeled resto and shock aren't dodgeable) your heavy attack, you don't get the ressources from it.

You can further increase the heavy attack ressource gained by wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor (Revitalize passive, 25% more ressource), by putting CP in the Tenacity start (up to 25%) or by wearing a set like Ulfnor's Favor (5 pieces give you 30% more ressource on heavy attack).

---

There is a mechanic that's bound to heavy attack which is called "off balance".

Ways to proc off balance :

• The most commun way is with the Tactician CP passive when you put 120 points into the atronach : "When you use Roll Dodge to dodge an attack, you set the enemy Off Balance."
  
• With abilities like Flame Lash if you strike an ennemy that's stunned or immobilize, Blockade of storm if the ennemy is concussed and surprise attack if you touch ur ennemy while being sneaky or invisible.
  
• Interrupting a ennemy hwo cast a spell/rez when he doesn't have CC immunity with a bash or with Crushing shock/Scatter shot/Deep breath or a regular stun will set up the ennemy off balance (as well as stunning him).
  
• Blocking a NPC melee Heavy Attack set up the mob off balance.

Here is how work off balance :

• It last 5s
  
• Using a heavy attack (fully charged or just a little) on a non blocking and non dodged ennemy (work on doding target for the channeled resto and shock heavies) stun the ennemy for X s and consume the off balance status (doesn't consume off balance of boss since they are immune to crowd control effects.
  
• Fully charged heavy attack make 70% more damage on off balance target.
  
• Heavy attack restore 100% more ressource on off balance target
  
• The Exploiter CP unlocked at 75 point in the ritual increases your damage done against Off Balance enemies by 10%
  
• Bosses gain 15 seconds of Off Balance immunity after Off Balance ends.(if a PvE boy can confirm this last one not sure about the time)

StamWhipCultist

There is a flat amount of resources we restore if we land heavy attack.
Its a magic, yes. No other explanation lol

Bladerunner1

When a Dragonbreak occurs the laws of fantasy physics get weird. Vampires are healed with restoration magic, books that haven't been written yet appear on shelves, elemental atronachs are getting demolished by mages flinging their own elements back at them, chamberpots and children vanish, weredogs and cats living together!

John_Falstaff

@Aedaryl , thanks for the write-up, it's nice to have the concise info in one place. Though since OP wrote "what's the thematic tie", I assume that he mostly meant "how is it logical that I get myself fresh, perky and full of energy by swinging a heavy piece of steel at someone". ^^

Didaco

For physical ones: Adrenaline?

For magical ones: Who really cares? It's magic.

Beardimus

Aedaryl wrote: »

You get ressource on heavy attack when the attack is fully charged and successfully hit.

Heavy attack ressource gain is based on the lengh of the attack, the more slow the attack is, the more ressource the attack give.

Here is the base value of heavy attacks with no passive modifier :

• Bow HA: 2724 Stamina
• Dual Wield HA : 1667 Stamina
• 2H HA :2426 Stamina
• 1H&S HA : 2014 Stamina
• Fire/Frost staff HA : 2823 Magicka
• Shock staff HA: 3633 Magicka
• Restoration staff HA : 3219 Magicka (note there is a 30% more ressource passive that can be added with Cycle of life) : 4184 magicka
• Werewolf HA : 1617 Stamina (note there is a 100% more ressource passive that can be added with Pursuit) : 3234 stamina

If your ennemy block (for channeled only the last tick need to be blocked) or dodge (channeled resto and shock aren't dodgeable) your heavy attack, you don't get the ressources from it.

You can further increase the heavy attack ressource gained by wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor (Revitalize passive, 25% more ressource), by putting CP in the Tenacity start (up to 25%) or by wearing a set like Ulfnor's Favor (5 pieces give you 30% more ressource on heavy attack).

---

There is a mechanic that's bound to heavy attack which is called "off balance".

Ways to proc off balance :

• The most commun way is with the Tactician CP passive when you put 120 points into the atronach : "When you use Roll Dodge to dodge an attack, you set the enemy Off Balance."
  
• With abilities like Flame Lash if you strike an ennemy that's stunned or immobilize, Blockade of storm if the ennemy is concussed and surprise attack if you touch ur ennemy while being sneaky or invisible.
  
• Interrupting a ennemy hwo cast a spell/rez when he doesn't have CC immunity with a bash or with Crushing shock/Scatter shot/Deep breath or a regular stun will set up the ennemy off balance (as well as stunning him).
  
• Blocking a NPC melee Heavy Attack set up the mob off balance.

Here is how work off balance :

• It last 5s
  
• Using a heavy attack (fully charged or just a little) on a non blocking and non dodged ennemy (work on doding target for the channeled resto and shock heavies) stun the ennemy for X s and consume the off balance status (doesn't consume off balance of boss since they are immune to crowd control effects.
  
• Fully charged heavy attack make 70% more damage on off balance target.
  
• Heavy attack restore 100% more ressource on off balance target
  
• The Exploiter CP unlocked at 75 point in the ritual increases your damage done against Off Balance enemies by 10%
  
• Bosses gain 15 seconds of Off Balance immunity after Off Balance ends.(if a PvE boy can confirm this last one not sure about the time)

mega Intel - this person deserves more than 2 insightfuls!

Nestor

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Aedaryl , thanks for the write-up, it's nice to have the concise info in one place. Though since OP wrote "what's the thematic tie", I assume that he mostly meant "how is it logical that I get myself fresh, perky and full of energy by swinging a heavy piece of steel at someone". ^^

The denizens of Tamriel figured out how to cross the streams

Krayl

As someone mentioned, I think of it more like adrenaline, or just the 'tide of battle' shifting in your favor from landing a nice clean big hit. While technically that may not replenish your energy in real-life practice, your resources are just a finite metaphor anyways.

Avran_Sylt

@Aedaryl
Very informative. And I’m able to construct a vague idea about the design intent behind the resource restore, especially with the requirement that the player must land a HA on an unblocking target.

It’s interesting to note that Channeled heavy attacks only restore resources on a fully-charged heavy attack, rather than per tick. (Seems a bit unintuitive giving the HA is in contact with the Target the whole while)

Even more so with the WW HA given how it applies damage to nearby targets.

ZOS_RobGarrett

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

NewBlacksmurf

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

@ZOS_RobGarrett
I believe it would be obvious if by doing so the magic or stamina bar glowed for a few seconds and had arrows inside moving to suggest that action regenerates the resource. Why not build this into the existing so players see, 1, 2 or 3 arrows depending upon how much is being restored per successful attack.

Its already built in when we do other things.
I'm primarily on xbox by the way so its the gamepad UI and no add-on options

Avran_Sylt

@ZOS_RobGarrett

Given the opportunity cost associated with heavy attacks, why is it that a heavy attack being blocked (PvP) removes any resource restore?

I’ve heard the reason for that was due to Stamina classes always heavy-weaving abilities, able to sustain with no resource regen gear.

(Side note) I think that Lightning/Resto staff HA’s are at a disadvantage given the clear telegraph and duration not being a factor in the amount of resources hey restore, given they only return resources on the final tick.

NBrookus

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

@ZOS_RobGarrett This mechanism really puts melee magicka at a resource disadvantage. Are there plans to address this?

Ragnarock41

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

I see the combat team decided that heavy attacks are for sustain and light attacks are for damage, which favours some classes more than others sadly. How does the devs feel about the state of Dks(especially stam) and molten armaments, an ability that boosts heavy attack damage. Heavy attacks used to be a pseudo-spammable for stamDKs in PvE and some very rare PvP builds also utilized it.(and in the past it used to be also serve as an execute if I remember correctly) While I appreciate devs deciding to be consistent, Its upsets me that this ability and the new idea zenimax has in mind goes agaist each other.

Does the combat team have any plans to change molten armaments into something different in future? Both morphs of this ability are very outdated and they don't fit the current game meta very well, for both PvP , and PvE.

Ragnarock41

I guess I might aswell tell my opinion on heavy attacks.

From a real life perspective, heavy attacks do look incredibly dumb. I mean this whole guy lifting his weapon in air for 2 hours and shouting ''I'm gonna hit you'' thing. Its dumb and there is no such thing.

But this is a fantasy game after all, so eh. Balance and gameplay should go over reality in some cases, and this is one of them.

Anastian

NBrookus wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

@ZOS_RobGarrett This mechanism really puts melee magicka at a resource disadvantage. Are there plans to address this?

Totally disagree. I am a melee NB magicka, 2h/Ice staff, and if you build correctly you don't need magicka heavy attacks to restore resources. Moreover, they are much easier to land with fire / ice staves compared to melee weapons, as long as you have decent reflexes with the crosshair (any shooter game should be a good enough training). Lightning charged attacks are even easier. Just practice mate: there is absolutely no difference.

Brutusmax1mus

Aedaryl wrote: »

You get ressource on heavy attack when the attack is fully charged and successfully hit.

Heavy attack ressource gain is based on the lengh of the attack, the more slow the attack is, the more ressource the attack give.

Here is the base value of heavy attacks with no passive modifier :

• Bow HA: 2724 Stamina
• Dual Wield HA : 1667 Stamina
• 2H HA :2426 Stamina
• 1H&S HA : 2014 Stamina
• Fire/Frost staff HA : 2823 Magicka
• Shock staff HA: 3633 Magicka
• Restoration staff HA : 3219 Magicka (note there is a 30% more ressource passive that can be added with Cycle of life) : 4184 magicka
• Werewolf HA : 1617 Stamina (note there is a 100% more ressource passive that can be added with Pursuit) : 3234 stamina

If your ennemy block (for channeled only the last tick need to be blocked) or dodge (channeled resto and shock aren't dodgeable) your heavy attack, you don't get the ressources from it.

You can further increase the heavy attack ressource gained by wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor (Revitalize passive, 25% more ressource), by putting CP in the Tenacity start (up to 25%) or by wearing a set like Ulfnor's Favor (5 pieces give you 30% more ressource on heavy attack).

---

There is a mechanic that's bound to heavy attack which is called "off balance".

Ways to proc off balance :

• The most commun way is with the Tactician CP passive when you put 120 points into the atronach : "When you use Roll Dodge to dodge an attack, you set the enemy Off Balance."
  
• With abilities like Flame Lash if you strike an ennemy that's stunned or immobilize, Blockade of storm if the ennemy is concussed and surprise attack if you touch ur ennemy while being sneaky or invisible.
  
• Interrupting a ennemy hwo cast a spell/rez when he doesn't have CC immunity with a bash or with Crushing shock/Scatter shot/Deep breath or a regular stun will set up the ennemy off balance (as well as stunning him).
  
• Blocking a NPC melee Heavy Attack set up the mob off balance.

Here is how work off balance :

• It last 5s
  
• Using a heavy attack (fully charged or just a little) on a non blocking and non dodged ennemy (work on doding target for the channeled resto and shock heavies) stun the ennemy for X s and consume the off balance status (doesn't consume off balance of boss since they are immune to crowd control effects.
  
• Fully charged heavy attack make 70% more damage on off balance target.
  
• Heavy attack restore 100% more ressource on off balance target
  
• The Exploiter CP unlocked at 75 point in the ritual increases your damage done against Off Balance enemies by 10%
  
• Bosses gain 15 seconds of Off Balance immunity after Off Balance ends.(if a PvE boy can confirm this last one not sure about the time)

Are percent modifiers multiplicative? @Aedaryl

Brutusmax1mus

Attacking an off balance opponent in ulfnors and 12% in tenacity would return 8830 stam with a 2h.

Xerge

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

The combat in this game is already sterile and basic; this decision makes someone like myself feel as if heavy attacking is abrupt stop to otherwise enjoyable gameplay, I ignore the mechanic and carry on. I simply build my character around stam restore and it's enough for basic pve content.

Either speed up heavy attacks by 40% or adjust the resource return to almost the entire resource bar.

Faulgor

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

I see the combat team decided that heavy attacks are for sustain and light attacks are for damage, which favours some classes more than others sadly. How does the devs feel about the state of Dks(especially stam) and molten armaments, an ability that boosts heavy attack damage. Heavy attacks used to be a pseudo-spammable for stamDKs in PvE and some very rare PvP builds also utilized it.(and in the past it used to be also serve as an execute if I remember correctly) While I appreciate devs deciding to be consistent, Its upsets me that this ability and the new idea zenimax has in mind goes agaist each other.

Does the combat team have any plans to change molten armaments into something different in future? Both morphs of this ability are very outdated and they don't fit the current game meta very well, for both PvP , and PvE.

The case of DKs is especially puzzling because when the changes to light/heavy attacks were made recently, Sorcerers' Bound Armaments was also changed from a heavy to a light attack bonus. It's odd why this didn't happen for DKs.

MopeyHat

Xerge wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

The combat in this game is already sterile and basic; this decision makes someone like myself feel as if heavy attacking is abrupt stop to otherwise enjoyable gameplay, I ignore the mechanic and carry on. I simply build my character around stam restore and it's enough for basic pve content.

Either speed up heavy attacks by 40% or adjust the resource return to almost the entire resource bar.

At least for pvp and endgame I think combat is quite fun but I wholeheartedly agree that the heavy attack mechanic unfortunately is completely nonsensical and feels ridiculous to go with it. More like clumsy attack. And then feeling the need to sit there holding the mouse for way too long, being afraid to cast because you'll cancel the heavy attack and ruin the resource return...just frustrating, not rewarding.

A heavy attack, in my head, might be something that's only a little longer than a light attack but does much more damage, but takes resources. Perhaps if you blocked for a moment and didn't get hit, you could restore resources faster? I hope it does get a more intuitive mechanic someday.

aetherial_heavenn

Aedaryl wrote: »

You get ressource on heavy attack when the attack is fully charged and successfully hit.

Heavy attack ressource gain is based on the lengh of the attack, the more slow the attack is, the more ressource the attack give.

Here is the base value of heavy attacks with no passive modifier :

• Bow HA: 2724 Stamina
• Dual Wield HA : 1667 Stamina
• 2H HA :2426 Stamina
• 1H&S HA : 2014 Stamina
• Fire/Frost staff HA : 2823 Magicka
• Shock staff HA: 3633 Magicka
• Restoration staff HA : 3219 Magicka (note there is a 30% more ressource passive that can be added with Cycle of life) : 4184 magicka
• Werewolf HA : 1617 Stamina (note there is a 100% more ressource passive that can be added with Pursuit) : 3234 stamina

If your ennemy block (for channeled only the last tick need to be blocked) or dodge (channeled resto and shock aren't dodgeable) your heavy attack, you don't get the ressources from it.

You can further increase the heavy attack ressource gained by wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor (Revitalize passive, 25% more ressource), by putting CP in the Tenacity start (up to 25%) or by wearing a set like Ulfnor's Favor (5 pieces give you 30% more ressource on heavy attack).

---

There is a mechanic that's bound to heavy attack which is called "off balance".

Ways to proc off balance :

• The most commun way is with the Tactician CP passive when you put 120 points into the atronach : "When you use Roll Dodge to dodge an attack, you set the enemy Off Balance."
  
• With abilities like Flame Lash if you strike an ennemy that's stunned or immobilize, Blockade of storm if the ennemy is concussed and surprise attack if you touch ur ennemy while being sneaky or invisible.
  
• Interrupting a ennemy hwo cast a spell/rez when he doesn't have CC immunity with a bash or with Crushing shock/Scatter shot/Deep breath or a regular stun will set up the ennemy off balance (as well as stunning him).
  
• Blocking a NPC melee Heavy Attack set up the mob off balance.

Here is how work off balance :

• It last 5s
  
• Using a heavy attack (fully charged or just a little) on a non blocking and non dodged ennemy (work on doding target for the channeled resto and shock heavies) stun the ennemy for X s and consume the off balance status (doesn't consume off balance of boss since they are immune to crowd control effects.
  
• Fully charged heavy attack make 70% more damage on off balance target.
  
• Heavy attack restore 100% more ressource on off balance target
  
• The Exploiter CP unlocked at 75 point in the ritual increases your damage done against Off Balance enemies by 10%
  
• Bosses gain 15 seconds of Off Balance immunity after Off Balance ends.(if a PvE boy can confirm this last one not sure about the time)

ICYMI

@ZOS_RobGarrett
this should be tidied up and pinned in the combat mechanics thread. Please.
Edited for correct tag

Crafts_Many_Boxes

MopeyHat wrote: »

Xerge wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

The combat in this game is already sterile and basic; this decision makes someone like myself feel as if heavy attacking is abrupt stop to otherwise enjoyable gameplay, I ignore the mechanic and carry on. I simply build my character around stam restore and it's enough for basic pve content.

Either speed up heavy attacks by 40% or adjust the resource return to almost the entire resource bar.

At least for pvp and endgame I think combat is quite fun but I wholeheartedly agree that the heavy attack mechanic unfortunately is completely nonsensical and feels ridiculous to go with it. More like clumsy attack. And then feeling the need to sit there holding the mouse for way too long, being afraid to cast because you'll cancel the heavy attack and ruin the resource return...just frustrating, not rewarding.

A heavy attack, in my head, might be something that's only a little longer than a light attack but does much more damage, but takes resources. Perhaps if you blocked for a moment and didn't get hit, you could restore resources faster? I hope it does get a more intuitive mechanic someday.

Yes, these are my thoughts as well.

In my mind, it would make 1000% more sense if light attacks restored magicka / stamina (because they're less taxing than abilities or heavy attacks) and heavy attacks would do huge damage but take a long time and consume resources instead of regaining them. It would be a tactical choice.

Right now, there is no choice. Meta is to light attack in between abilities, and heavy attack if necessary to sustain. It's dumb and makes 0 sense.

Finviuswe

How does anything happen. You need to restore stam somehow.

Jaimeh

Maybe it's because it's a simple type of attack (you are not casting a spell, or doing fancy acrobatics with your weapon), so your characters gets a 'breather' and restores their strength/power.

mr_wazzabi

Faulgor wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

I see the combat team decided that heavy attacks are for sustain and light attacks are for damage, which favours some classes more than others sadly. How does the devs feel about the state of Dks(especially stam) and molten armaments, an ability that boosts heavy attack damage. Heavy attacks used to be a pseudo-spammable for stamDKs in PvE and some very rare PvP builds also utilized it.(and in the past it used to be also serve as an execute if I remember correctly) While I appreciate devs deciding to be consistent, Its upsets me that this ability and the new idea zenimax has in mind goes agaist each other.

Does the combat team have any plans to change molten armaments into something different in future? Both morphs of this ability are very outdated and they don't fit the current game meta very well, for both PvP , and PvE.

The case of DKs is especially puzzling because when the changes to light/heavy attacks were made recently, Sorcerers' Bound Armaments was also changed from a heavy to a light attack bonus. It's odd why this didn't happen for DKs.

Fyi, I run a heavy attack build with my dk and it depends on molten armaments in its current form.

Here it is, created by one of our class reps:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/309550/elemental-fury-pve-heavy-attack-dk-build-wolfhunter-ready/p1

f047ys3v3n

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

When designing gameplay the ideal is to craft mechanics that both generate desirable play patterns and maintain some sense of consistency with the real world. Designers are sometimes faced with a reality of prioritizing one over the other, and this is often the case when attempting to improve existing gameplay systems without introducing entirely new mechanics (which adds complexity and risk).

Heavy Attack resource restore falls into this category. Some time ago the team was identifying ways to make Magicka and Stamina management more interesting. Heavy Attacks already had a built-in, long windup that represented a good opportunity cost for restoring those resources, so we included the restore behavior on the existing mechanic. The team was aware this wouldn't be immediately intuitive to a new player, but once the behavior is learned it has the desired effect on gameplay.

The idea of using heavy attacks to restore resources is probably a good one but you should look under the hood a little. As the changes have been added one upon another I don't think they are behaving how you think they are. The current screwy scaling leaves those with a little ping lag doing attacks that, in the case of channeled weapons, do no damage and return no resources. Full heavies also get a damage boost in addition to returning resources rather than the damage nerf the patch notes indicated was intended. You are left with almost the entire spectrum of possible attack timings yielding an attack that is sub-optimal in damage and returns no resources. In my opinion, this should be the number 2 balance priority behind addressing cheat engine as it underlays all you your combat system.