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Example of power creep spiraling out of control

  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    You're either complaining to complain, in which case, nothing anyone says here is going to sway you, or you're getting "Power Creep" mixed up with lack of clear progression.

    If it was all about the creep, there wouldn't be the still-present divide between high end and newer players.

    There should always be harder content. There should equally be means of progressing within that content, beyond obtaining a limited number of specific sets or practicing rotations for hours on end.

    That is the area that is lacking.

    Power creep is easy cop out to present simple gear checks as "diffculty".

    Try doing content in plain white gear and then top gear and tell us which is easier (or in a lot of cases impossble).
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 1:13PM
  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    snip

    The defensive ability of these two together is great, but the DPS ability of these two together is total crap.

    The proc does less than 1,000 per second, and it is only a 5m range. Short Range with Spell Crit nonetheless.

    Not as OP as you are making it out to be.

    For what it is worth, I use Whitestrake in PvP on my healer, and I pair it with Mighty Chudan. Makes me very difficult to kill, but I my damage output is very poor.
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    Helric wrote: »
    Hello,
    I would like to give the point of view of a "new player".
    The game is too easy, even for a new player.
    Whether outdoors, in public dungeons and dens.
    We especially feel the imbalance in veteran dungeons.
    If I am with players of my level (CP) in dungeon we must respect the strategies and the dungeons are really interesting.
    But from the moment we fall with big players, say 300+ CP the game becomes completely uninteresting and everything is done in burst.


    Maybe they should reduce or remove champion points, or give the same CP lv to mobs.
    But it's a pity to see a lot of the content become boring because of the high CP or unbalanced gear.
    I still have to unlock 300cp + dungeons and I really hope to have a little difficulty in it.

    I hope I contributed to the thread, it seemed important to me to have the point of view of low lv CP player.

    Thanks, that is exactly the problem, insane power creep invaldating all content which is utterly UNhelathy for the game in teh long turn.

    Game cannot be normalized in difficulty with insane power creep on gear and CP. First you have to deal with those 2 then you can proceede to normalize the difficulty of the content across the board.

    sorry, but I dont get why you agree with him, yet we tell you the exact same thing.....

    he said himslef that the game is too easy for a new player,....thats all we say aswell
    overland content is way to easy, dungeon have a way to big gap between normal and vet.

    yes players can just strait out nuke nearly every boss, but the problem aint our DMG; the problem is that the boss has mechanics which are too weak, not dangerous at all.

    Lets take the daedroth from CoA2, it was nerfed back a couple patches ago, because ppl trying to nuke it died on the adds it spawned (if you had enough dmg you could nuke it, but 95% of the players didnt have the dmg) yet the majority wanted to nuke the boss, but couldnt...flamed the forums he was to hard -> ergo he got nerfed.

    thats also a reason that ppl say the game is to easy, because ZOS nerfs bosses which actually are a challenge, and then they dont nerf bosses which are way harder SCP HM fight for example, so ofc there is big gap between such bosses.

    but you also need to keep in mind that DLC dungeon enemies are scaled to the CP which was the Cap when they were released, so a vFL is alot harder than a vWGT

    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    "he said himslef that the game is too easy for a new player,"

    no he didnt, thats just your failure in reading and comprehending what is writen....like usual from you in this thread
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 1:26PM
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Helric wrote: »
    Hello,
    I would like to give the point of view of a "new player".
    The game is too easy, even for a new player.
    Whether outdoors, in public dungeons and dens.

    We especially feel the imbalance in veteran dungeons.
    If I am with players of my level (CP) in dungeon we must respect the strategies and the dungeons are really interesting.
    But from the moment we fall with big players, say 300+ CP the game becomes completely uninteresting and everything is done in burst.


    Maybe they should reduce or remove champion points, or give the same CP lv to mobs.
    But it's a pity to see a lot of the content become boring because of the high CP or unbalanced gear.
    I still have to unlock 300cp + dungeons and I really hope to have a little difficulty in it.

    I hope I contributed to the thread, it seemed important to me to have the point of view of low lv CP player.

    @MikaHR yes he did, dont try to turn statements which can so easily be checked ;)
    Edited by SaintSubwayy on February 12, 2019 1:21PM
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • mairwen85
    mairwen85
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    MikaHR wrote: »

    And you keep making ridiculous "points" that get refuted and then procede to cry about it.

    Pot meet kettle

    Proceed to cry about what? I don't see you refuting anything, just refusing to address or discuss in a normal fashion anything that's put to you.

  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    And you fail in reading comprehension

    "We especially feel the imbalance in veteran dungeons.
    If I am with players of my level (CP) in dungeon we must respect the strategies and the dungeons are really interesting.
    But from the moment we fall with big players, say 300+ CP the game becomes completely uninteresting and everything is done in burst."

    In fact he IS calling for huge NERF of gear and CP.
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 1:26PM
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    ANd you fail in reading comprehension

    "We especially feel the imbalance in veteran dungeons.
    If I am with players of my level (CP) in dungeon we must respect the strategies and the dungeons are really interesting.
    But from the moment we fall with big players, say 300+ CP the game becomes completely uninteresting and everything is done in burst."

    jeah I know, he finds vetdungeons interessting, not Impossibly hard what so ever.

    the point with the 300CP dude prob mainly comes from thi splayer beeing able to simply play safer, more static in terms of DPS, due to expierience and more understanding of the game.

    If I as a new player dont know that I can, or how I can burn a boss I will never do it, but if someone shows me how its done, I will always rreburn him in the future
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    You will never do it naked either.

    The fact is that it is proof there is insane power creep that is invalidating all content which is VERY bad for longterm health of the game.

    Anyway, here is the very easy solution:

    Make 5 piece set bonus from dungeons/raids (including monster sets) like 3 piece bonus and work ONLY in/on dungeon/raid mobs.
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 1:36PM
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    SMDH...whitestrakes and Iceheart OP now? And power creep? These are the worst examples ever dude. It don’t even make sense.
    PlayStation NA
    1000+ CP
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    PlayStation EU
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  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Dude some plp did vMA with only broom and bucket, so jeah that much said about that.
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    You guys are still feeding the troll? Yeah, forums are really not good with noticing trolling and sarcasm...
  • mairwen85
    mairwen85
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    You will never do it naked either.

    There's a lot of things I'll never do naked -- dungeon runs... hmmm

    it is a thing. Trust me. I've seen it.
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    You will never do it naked either.

    The fact is that it is proof there is insane power creep that is invalidating all content which is VERY bad for longterm health of the game.

    Anyway, here is the very easy solution:

    Make 5 piece set bonus from dungeons/raids (including monster sets) like 3 piece bonus and work ONLY on dungeon/raid mobs.

    and I can guarantee you ppl start running arround in TBS, willpower, 1 arena weapon / bar and a monmsterset....and still manage to burn nearly every boss in dungeons.
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    Dude some plp did vMA with only broom and bucket, so jeah that much said about that.

    They certainly didnt just "burn everything is 3s" like that.

    Can you at least try and comprehend what is writen?
    kylewwefan wrote: »
    SMDH...whitestrakes and Iceheart OP now? And power creep? These are the worst examples ever dude. It don’t even make sense.

    if you cant comprehend, just move along.
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 1:36PM
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    Dude some plp did vMA with only broom and bucket, so jeah that much said about that.

    They certainly didnt just "burn everything is 3s" like that.

    Can you at least try and comprehend what is writen?
    kylewwefan wrote: »
    SMDH...whitestrakes and Iceheart OP now? And power creep? These are the worst examples ever dude. It don’t even make sense.

    if you cant comprehend, just move along.

    Ofc not, but he pulled it off...somethong that the majority of ppl cant pull off even with max gear

    If I remember correctly deltia managed to get vMA done at about CP10, there should still be a video of that

    Knowledge and skill is way more powerfull than just gear and CP
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    People who cant do it certainly dont have "max gear".

    But THAT is mechanics and CAN be done naked with SKILL, now show "CR+3 naked run" and we will talk.

    In fact, this insane gear/CP power creep is letting peopel AVOID all mechanics and just stand in the stoopid and burn everything in 3s.
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 1:47PM
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    Yep. Another Nerf thread. Have we had enough of these Nerf threads yet? Geezus, just play the game.
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    What, so new players cant catch up EVER?

    Great way to kill the game.[/quote]

    They can catch up easy enough. I started yet another account two weeks ago with no ESO Plus and only Morrowind. I hit CP 160 yesterday on my only character on that account. I'm already doing Vet content and soon will have the Monster sets I need. Sure took me a long time to "catch up".

    And I have 19 Undaunted keys already.

  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    People who cant do it certainly dont have "max gear".

    But THAT is mechanics and CAN be done naked with SKILL, now show "CR+3 naked run" and we will talk.

    In fact, this insane gear/CP power creep is letting peopel AVOID all mechanics and just stand in the stoopid and burn everything in 3s.

    cant compare this, vCR was designet to be balanced on about 750 CP, thats like goin into a vet hm dungeon on lvl 40.

    vMA is scaled to CP160

    Content is designed to be scaled to the CP lvls we have at the moment of its release, thas why new content is "hard" and old content is a breeze to wipe clean

    the "fatal" flaw is more that you can access content way above your Power, and then ppl start flaming, that its too hard.

    If ZOS would add in a "Power LVL number" like other games had, and tune the dungeons in a way that you need a minimum lvl, then the problem of OP bosses would drastically decrease (LA spammers aside)
    Edited by SaintSubwayy on February 12, 2019 1:55PM
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • Austinseph1
    Austinseph1
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    if You are using shields as an example of power creep then it’s an pretty irrelevant considering overall survival just got nerfed by a fairly large margin. They are now critable.. the strength was reduced by about 50% in some cases, and in case you say it’s better because of resistances applying... the calculation doesn’t apply flat. So only a little of the resistance actually helps. Since I’ve started playing I’ve seen almost nothing but nerfs. PvE should never be nerfed because PvP can’t adapt.
  • yodased
    yodased
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    There was no "grind", they were designed as "higher level to quest in". EXACTLY what you want back, EXACTLY the thing they had to rework once already because game was on the brink of death.

    And that is when they introduced level scaling and that you can go into any zone on any level. It was FINE before insane gear/CP power creep.

    There was no grind? Adventure zones like craglorn and murkmire were both designed for veteran levels, which would take millions of XP to get, MILLIONS. You think that grinding out 1,000 XP for CP is bad lol.

    I wasn't taking you seriously in the first place as this is a silly argument with very little fact or logic, but this statement, it's so wrong, I want to take you up in an airplane and show you the curvature of the wrongness.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • juttaa77b16_ESO
    juttaa77b16_ESO
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    Some new players enter the game and say it's too hard for them and other players say it's too easy. Both sides have a right to place their viewpoint here, but ZOS can't accommodate both "exactly" without ruining it for the other unless they change the combat difficulty to be individual which brings up other new issues(time to do so, how it impacts grouping, reward adjustments,...........). Right now the game provides somewhat of a midway point for both casuals and elites to play.

    The game also does not specifically account for previous gaming experience. For example, someone coming from other mmos or mp games might find this game easier, than let's say someone who never played one before and starts here for the 1st time. That new person to gaming would have to learn the very basics of gaming 1st. By nerfing the player(gear, abilities, cp,.....again ) many of those completely new players would be shut out. They'll likely find the game too hard and leave.

    proc sets, abilities and such were all balanced and nerfed down already. I don't see anything concrete here to do it again. Some content is still challenging for fully geared players as well. SO I'm just not seeing it.
    Edited by juttaa77b16_ESO on February 12, 2019 2:00PM
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Some new players enter the game and say it's too hard for them and other players say it's too easy. Both sides have a right to place their viewpoint here, but ZOS can't accommodate both "exactly" without ruining it for the other unless they change the combat difficulty to be individual which brings up other new issues(time to do so, how it impacts grouping, reward adjustments,...........). Right now the game provides somewhat of a midway point for both casuals and elites to play.

    The game also does not specifically account for previous gaming experience. For example, someone coming from other mmos or mp games might find this game easier, than let's say someone who never played one before and starts here for the 1st time. That new person to gaming would have to learn the very basics of gaming 1st. By nerfing the player(gear, abilities, cp,.....again ) you shut many of those completely new players out. They'll likely find the game too hard and leave.

    well said.

    We dont need more nerfs towards gear and CP etc. (except overperforming sets ofc)
    We need more difficulty levels, so every type of player can have an adventure in a difficulty he likes.
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    How exactly will new player be affected by nerfing gear he doesnt have and CPs that he doesnt have?
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 2:02PM
  • juttaa77b16_ESO
    juttaa77b16_ESO
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    I do agree with the one shots needing to be removed and reworked to have more interesting mechanics, but "generally nerfing all players" in any kind of way isn't needed.
    Edited by juttaa77b16_ESO on February 12, 2019 2:03PM
  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    People who cant do it certainly dont have "max gear".

    But THAT is mechanics and CAN be done naked with SKILL, now show "CR+3 naked run" and we will talk.

    In fact, this insane gear/CP power creep is letting peopel AVOID all mechanics and just stand in the stoopid and burn everything in 3s.

    cant compare this, vCR was designet to be balanced on about 750 CP, thats like goin into a vet hm dungeon on lvl 40.

    vMA is scaled to CP160

    Content is designed to be scaled to the CP lvls we have at the moment of its release, thas why new content is "hard" and old content is a breeze to wipe clean

    the "fatal" flaw is more that you can access content way above your Power, and then ppl start flaming, that its too hard.

    If ZOS would add in a "Power LVL number" like other games had, and tune the dungeons in a way that you need a minimum lvl, then the problem of OP bosses would drastically decrease (LA spammers aside)

    Thanks for proving insane power creep is REAL
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 2:04PM
  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    yodased wrote: »
    MikaHR wrote: »
    There was no "grind", they were designed as "higher level to quest in". EXACTLY what you want back, EXACTLY the thing they had to rework once already because game was on the brink of death.

    And that is when they introduced level scaling and that you can go into any zone on any level. It was FINE before insane gear/CP power creep.

    There was no grind? Adventure zones like craglorn and murkmire were both designed for veteran levels, which would take millions of XP to get, MILLIONS. You think that grinding out 1,000 XP for CP is bad lol.

    I wasn't taking you seriously in the first place as this is a silly argument with very little fact or logic, but this statement, it's so wrong, I want to take you up in an airplane and show you the curvature of the wrongness.

    It was less of a "grind" than 1 -50 . And it was exactly what he proposes now and cant take on that ZOS alrady did it...and had to rework whole game because it nearly died.
    Edited by MikaHR on February 12, 2019 2:07PM
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  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    MikaHR wrote: »
    How exactly will new player be affected by nerfing gear he doesnt have and CPs that he doesnt have?

    well gear is scaled to a players lvl , no matter if he already has CP or not.

    Lets say they tune down Hundings 5pcs down to a 3 pcs value lvl...so newer players would also loose 170 WD, compared to now.
    Making mops actually harder to kill, due to lower dmg, and making survivability harder due to weaker heals

    CP wise jeah If they dont have CP, then they wont notice it...but when they reach CP 160, content would still be harder than it is now at 160, for everybody ofc.
    But newer players will notice it more, since they have not the indepth knowledge we older players already have.
    We would still be OP in their eyes, becaus ewe know how to play the game,, they woul dnot get the feel that we are on the same lvl at all, maybe not as far apart as now, but still a significat difference
    Edited by SaintSubwayy on February 12, 2019 2:06PM
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
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