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Tank meta needs to be addressed still
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
People are using heavy armor tanky builds because people like you have been complaining and getting every skill nerfed that gives protection (like shields), so of course people go tanky since no one enjoy getting killed by 2 snipes.
And now, here you are wanting more nerfs.. and when heavy armor is nerfed, next you will want the next thing that works as protection to be nerfed. And healing. So when all of that is gone.. what is most powerful setup to play then? Yes, nightblade that can do 1st strike with snipe spam, and nothing anyone can do about it anymore since no defenses or healing left.
Archer player detected.3 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »
With all the Defiles in PvP I'd like to disagree.IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »I duelled my buddy on a 60k troll tank with 50k resistances and killed him after a min or 2 with 2.5k wd and no proc sets...
L2p issue you just need to know how
Because 2min 1vs1 fights are so entertaining in PvP.
Yes they are actually. This isnt Cod where "duells " last 2 seconds you know... Duells which dont last longer then 1 min arent duells imo they are you nuking some poor Noob. Of course i prefer targets who actually fight back you know.... What im saying is if a person cant kill someone its his fault not a balance problem(anymore, templars were nerfed quite enough). Adapt or go under its that simple. If you have
problems vs tanks/healers, make sure you have 1 source of major defile available and they will melt.Edited by IlCanis_LupuslI on February 11, 2019 2:07PM
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just having a dedicated healer can sway an entire BG pre-made or not. I have seen several matches go to the time limit simply because two of three teams had dedicated healers. Having que'd many times and played with and against them I can honestly say the healers were not in groups half the time. There are definitely teams that get stuck with two dedicated healers and die little but lack the offensive output to win. So its not all cake for the healers.
Dedicated healers are incredibly effective even in no-CP. I think some of this phenomenon is a response to snares and organized opponents. However I think players are realizing that if they can pump out 300k+ healing they can dramatically improve the performance of their pug in most BGs.
Gaggling in BGs is an effective way to create LOS where there is none. It drastically reduces the effectiveness of most burst dps. It is still effective even in the snare meta. And dedicated healers make it survivable. The gaggle in turn protects the healer from most burst problems.
I don't know an effective solution to this problem.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭And you cant focuss that 1 healer witih your 4 dps characters in BG´s why?? Call out his GT to your friends and keep the pressure on him. With pugs of course on your Team your screwed anyway.
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.1 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭*Watches a magic sorc run by with 45K health*
*logs off*Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA0 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe they should implement healin AOE caps? Since people have such massive issues with large groups never dying since you have half of them as useless healbots0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Almost had a match time out last night. And yes, there are players getting mad heals, doing crazy damage, and hardly takin any damage. They're usually on a premade team. You're not supposed to be able eat your cake and still have it too. That's not balance.
So if you are talking about a premade team; are they staying tight together? I don't do a lot of battlegrounds but you see them in Cyrodiil. I'd imagine in a PUG in a battleground you are not going to be able to deal with that as you need to take out their healer or they may have 2 although I'd be surprised in a 4 man; and I do not see a PUG able to stay on them enough to have the damage while survive the coordination of the enemy group. Its going to get even harrier with another team thrown in the mix. The premade is going to be able to turtle better and focus better while the other 2 teams kill each other. Its not a tank and heal meta at this point. Its just a life fact that coordination and planning will outdo random people just thrown into the mix together.
I guess I'd be curious of what you all would want done. Nerf their healing, you nerf your healing and you are in the same spot just with less healing? It would just be a shorter time to kill but that really favors zergs as the smaller group needs to survive to maneuver. If you limit it to having a specific healer role maybe with heals drawing its power from something other than max resources and weapon/spell damage then that will also favor groups who have dedicated healers.
Personally; I run defiles. It really was a decent counter and still is but the uptime has been harder to manage.
I'm not asking for a healing nerf. I'm asking for proc sets to do less in pvp. Battle spirit or whatever can do it.0 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
OMG, I cant kill someone in 5 seconds! Nerf everything!1 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Isn't the whole point of being a tank to be difficult to kill...?skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Isn't the whole point of being a tank to be difficult to kill...?
Isn't the point of tanks to take damage not also to deal them?"We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.3 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crixus8000 wrote: »Nope and just wrong. Healing and mitigation far exceed damage.
I can't understand this at all. How is mitigation so good when bleeds and oblivion ignore it ? And they are everywhere in no cp. And healing so strong when one proc set like zaan can hit over 20k and ignore block and los, Snipes hitting 5-10k + on a build with near 30k resists and full impen ect.
Even if someone stacked as much healing and mitigation as they wanted all it would take is a single good bleedblade with sloads/viper, master axes and they are dead. The only time healing is overtuned is when people have multiple earthgores/bogdans in a raid, because otherwise I would just say it's people having bad damage and not knowing how to fight, I don't run high damage on my builds and still have no issues getting kills in no cp.
Thats a completely different issue. Not every class has access to bleed damage, I sure don't. Sorcs in general have a hard time with high resistant and healing classes their damage just isn't sufficient. I guess is a matter of point of view. Bleeds and oblivion damage should have never been added to the game. Balance would have be much easier without them. Just yesterday and 4 man group of templars running earthgore in BG's got the ball in a match. Not one of them was killable. They won very easy as healing was waaaay out of control.Edited by bardx86 on February 11, 2019 5:06PM0 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Thats a completely different issue. Not every class has access to bleed damage, I sure don't. Sorcs in general have a hard time with high resistant and healing classes their damage just isn't sufficient. I guess is a matter of point of view. Bleeds and oblivion damage should have never been added to the game. Balance would have be much easier without them.
Any stam build can build for bleeds though, and oblivion while more rare is still easily accessible for all classes in some form and both of these do insane damage due to having basically no counter other than outhealing the pressure. So of course people will want to be tanky to survive badly designed things like this.
So in my opinion I think it's damage that is the issue. To many things with no counters, and things that just deal to much damage. A proc set like zaan should not deal over 20k damage, bleeds and oblivion should not ignore everything and deal such high numbers, snipe should not be able to hit from so far away, apply major defile and hit as hard as an ult ect. So much ignores your defences and has little to no counterplay that it just forces people to build for survivability.
For this to change I think the best way would be to lose all the free overpowered damage and have damage be more skill based, in landing it and being able to counter it. Like I think stamdens are a great example, they have mega burst but if your an experienced player you can avoid it by using skilful gameplay, like blocking/rolling before sub goes off, countering the stamdens burst. Compare that to countering a bleed build for example and it's a prety big diference, you can play a squishy setup and counter the stamden with skill, where to fight against certain procs and bleeds you need a build that can soak up damage.Edited by Crixus8000 on February 11, 2019 5:22PM0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
People are using heavy armor tanky builds because people like you have been complaining and getting every skill nerfed that gives protection (like shields), so of course people go tanky since no one enjoy getting killed by 2 snipes.
And now, here you are wanting more nerfs.. and when heavy armor is nerfed, next you will want the next thing that works as protection to be nerfed. And healing. So when all of that is gone.. what is most powerful setup to play then? Yes, nightblade that can do 1st strike with snipe spam, and nothing anyone can do about it anymore since no defenses or healing left.
Archer player detected.
This isn't true. Heavy has been meta ever since DB.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
People are using heavy armor tanky builds because people like you have been complaining and getting every skill nerfed that gives protection (like shields), so of course people go tanky since no one enjoy getting killed by 2 snipes.
And now, here you are wanting more nerfs.. and when heavy armor is nerfed, next you will want the next thing that works as protection to be nerfed. And healing. So when all of that is gone.. what is most powerful setup to play then? Yes, nightblade that can do 1st strike with snipe spam, and nothing anyone can do about it anymore since no defenses or healing left.
Archer player detected.
This isn't true. Heavy has been meta ever since DB.
so?skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
0 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭If people choose to play in heavy armour then that is their choice. Agree that the proc sets are just too much in PVP but they are in the game to use. My opinion is all proc sets should be disabled in Cyrodil and BGs as well as CP.
Since this most likely will never happen I just build characters to have fun in Cyrodil and BGs using whatever sets look fun to me.
With all the sets available to everyone in game I suggest looking at building a character that can survive and deal damage with the sets available. Have fun!0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
People are using heavy armor tanky builds because people like you have been complaining and getting every skill nerfed that gives protection (like shields), so of course people go tanky since no one enjoy getting killed by 2 snipes.
And now, here you are wanting more nerfs.. and when heavy armor is nerfed, next you will want the next thing that works as protection to be nerfed. And healing. So when all of that is gone.. what is most powerful setup to play then? Yes, nightblade that can do 1st strike with snipe spam, and nothing anyone can do about it anymore since no defenses or healing left.
Archer player detected.
This isn't true. Heavy has been meta ever since DB.
And so have the nerfs. And nb ganks hits hard.. people get more tanky. Many running at pvp now built like pve tanks. Cloak/Snipe/Cloak/Snipe spam style of playing finishes people before even have chances to fight back, unless you build like a tank. So said gankers can only thank themselves for the current situation. Enjoy.1 -
ChefZero✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
People are using heavy armor tanky builds because people like you have been complaining and getting every skill nerfed that gives protection (like shields), so of course people go tanky since no one enjoy getting killed by 2 snipes.
And now, here you are wanting more nerfs.. and when heavy armor is nerfed, next you will want the next thing that works as protection to be nerfed. And healing. So when all of that is gone.. what is most powerful setup to play then? Yes, nightblade that can do 1st strike with snipe spam, and nothing anyone can do about it anymore since no defenses or healing left.
Archer player detected.
This isn't true. Heavy has been meta ever since DB.
And so have the nerfs. And nb ganks hits hard.. people get more tanky. Many running at pvp now built like pve tanks. Cloak/Snipe/Cloak/Snipe spam style of playing finishes people before even have chances to fight back, unless you build like a tank. So said gankers can only thank themselves for the current situation. Enjoy.
Lol people complaining about tank meta... meanwhile shadow mundus gets buffed and Khajit get 10% more critdamage. Well played snipers
PC EU - DC only0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
People are using heavy armor tanky builds because people like you have been complaining and getting every skill nerfed that gives protection (like shields), so of course people go tanky since no one enjoy getting killed by 2 snipes.
And now, here you are wanting more nerfs.. and when heavy armor is nerfed, next you will want the next thing that works as protection to be nerfed. And healing. So when all of that is gone.. what is most powerful setup to play then? Yes, nightblade that can do 1st strike with snipe spam, and nothing anyone can do about it anymore since no defenses or healing left.
Archer player detected.
This isn't true. Heavy has been meta ever since DB.
And so have the nerfs. And nb ganks hits hard.. people get more tanky. Many running at pvp now built like pve tanks. Cloak/Snipe/Cloak/Snipe spam style of playing finishes people before even have chances to fight back, unless you build like a tank. So said gankers can only thank themselves for the current situation. Enjoy.
Lol people complaining about tank meta... meanwhile shadow mundus gets buffed and Khajit get 10% more critdamage. Well played snipers
Heh yeah well, we shall see soon how these changes effect things.. but i guess more khajiit gankers inc lol0
