Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Tank meta needs to be addressed still
Strider__Roshin
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
14
-
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BG matches time out because healing output out shines damage output, by a lot.
Given how much more popular the CP campaign is than the no-CP campaign, I’m going to assume that when you refer to Cyrodiil, you’re referring to the CP campaign.
CP literally decreases the amount of damage you take, thus exacerbating the already giant imbalance between healing output vs damage output, making everyone a super tank.
Healing is just way too strong compared to the huge nerf to damage created by the Battle Spirit.4 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BG matches time out because healing output out shines damage output, by a lot.
Given how much more popular the CP campaign is than the no-CP campaign, I’m going to assume that when you refer to Cyrodiil, you’re referring to the CP campaign.
CP literally decreases the amount of damage you take, thus exacerbating the already giant imbalance between healing output vs damage output, making everyone a super tank.
Healing is just way too strong compared to the huge nerf to damage created by the Battle Spirit.
A fair point. Maybe we should adjust the battle spirit damage reduction then? Truthfully the most fun I had PvPing in this game was pre-Imperial City. When they reduced our damage to 50% it really slowed down the combat, and them buffing snares just further exacerbated the issue.5 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As a healer I completely disagree, healing is already halved. Healing isn’t the issue, and neither is heavy armour. The problems are reflections and people not assisting.Edited by Iskiab on February 11, 2019 5:03AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten11 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a healer I completely disagree, healing is already halved. Healing isn’t the issue, and neither is heavy armour. The problems are reflections and people not assisting.
healing is the issue for some. specifically magblade our heals got gutted and resto heals aren't really doing it.
it's kinda rough. though i didn't go heavy i did go more tanky and removed most of my class abilities, not good.Edited by Lucky28 on February 11, 2019 5:11AMInvictus0 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Been playing all weekend.. no matches timed out in Vet BG.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)1 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭I will always disagree with this, especially in no cp. Damage exceeds survivability. I have near 30k resists and full impen and still get hit 10k + snipes, and 20k + soul assaults ect.
Pvp is filled with lag, bugs, huge damage and proc sets. So many things you have no control over and can't counter using skill. If pvp was in a healthier state and had less of these things then I'm sure more people would go for a less tanky setup. But even in very tanky setups you can still die fast. No cp is filled with bleeds and oblivion, these 2 things ignore all your resistsances and block, then you have certain proc sets that are doing ult level damage.
I can understand this point of view in cp pvp, and that's why I avoid it. Everyone get's near infnate sustain and lots of survivability just from cp. But I don't think it's true for no cp at all.Edited by Crixus8000 on February 11, 2019 5:29AM8 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's because proc sets and master DW are giving massively tanky setups really good damages (in no cp). In CP you have things like fury and 7th legion. They need to actually delete bleeds from existence, give shuffle a 6s snare immunity, revert roll dodge changes and make good damage medium sets if they want players to start running medium.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.4 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I count on one hand the number of times a BG has timed out on me. As far as Cyrodiil no opinion personally since I almost never go their anymore.1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BG matches time out because healing output out shines damage output, by a lot.
Given how much more popular the CP campaign is than the no-CP campaign, I’m going to assume that when you refer to Cyrodiil, you’re referring to the CP campaign.
CP literally decreases the amount of damage you take, thus exacerbating the already giant imbalance between healing output vs damage output, making everyone a super tank.
Healing is just way too strong compared to the huge nerf to damage created by the Battle Spirit.
Blame the healing proc sets. I don't know why people seem to think anyone using actual healing skills are the problem or conveniently leave out the proc set part.
Healing is not the problem, those proc sets are. When you have a proc set that heals more than a skill does, that's a problem no matter how you slice it. Heavy armor's trade-offs and loss of cost reduction would actually hurt if there wasn't a billion sets out there that allow you to heal without even slotting one or spending magicka to do so. Examples? 4x Earthgore, 4x Bogdan, 4x Chokethorn (though ideally only one Earthgore + 3 Bogdan is "recommended" if you want a heal set to carry your heavy armor builds). Let's not get into HP% heals and green/red dragon blood combined with these proc sets in no-CP.
But let's keep saying "healing is the problem" and forget the proc set part. Either way, it's a result of ZOS' nerfs and continued addition of damaging proc sets that do too much damage. Enjoy, because even if heals got nerfed today, then those same groups would crutch on 100% AoE damage proc sets.7 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭BG matches time out because healing output out shines damage output, by a lot.
Given how much more popular the CP campaign is than the no-CP campaign, I’m going to assume that when you refer to Cyrodiil, you’re referring to the CP campaign.
CP literally decreases the amount of damage you take, thus exacerbating the already giant imbalance between healing output vs damage output, making everyone a super tank.
Healing is just way too strong compared to the huge nerf to damage created by the Battle Spirit.
CP also increase the damage you take.6 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
you know you were part of the problem that caused this complaining about shields.3 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭vamp_emily wrote: »Been playing all weekend.. no matches timed out in Vet BG.
no such thing as Vet BGs2 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crixus8000 wrote: »I will always disagree with this, especially in no cp. Damage exceeds survivability. I have near 30k resists and full impen and still get hit 10k + snipes, and 20k + soul assaults ect.
Pvp is filled with lag, bugs, huge damage and proc sets. So many things you have no control over and can't counter using skill. If pvp was in a healthier state and had less of these things then I'm sure more people would go for a less tanky setup. But even in very tanky setups you can still die fast. No cp is filled with bleeds and oblivion, these 2 things ignore all your resistsances and block, then you have certain proc sets that are doing ult level damage.
I can understand this point of view in cp pvp, and that's why I avoid it. Everyone get's near infnate sustain and lots of survivability just from cp. But I don't think it's true for no cp at all.
Nope and just wrong. Healing and mitigation far exceed damage.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BG matches time out because healing output out shines damage output, by a lot.
Given how much more popular the CP campaign is than the no-CP campaign, I’m going to assume that when you refer to Cyrodiil, you’re referring to the CP campaign.
CP literally decreases the amount of damage you take, thus exacerbating the already giant imbalance between healing output vs damage output, making everyone a super tank.
Healing is just way too strong compared to the huge nerf to damage created by the Battle Spirit.
Actually You're both wrong and right. CPs have defensive stars that's true but you have to spread it between all types of mitigation while when it goes to offensive you can focus more on one type of damage dealing leading in conclusion to increased damage in CP.
What makes fights harder and longer in CP environment is better sustain. This leads to situation where if you want to take someone down you need to know how to time your burst or be DPS beast, proc sets won't do it for you.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.4 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nope and just wrong. Healing and mitigation far exceed damage.
I can't understand this at all. How is mitigation so good when bleeds and oblivion ignore it ? And they are everywhere in no cp. And healing so strong when one proc set like zaan can hit over 20k and ignore block and los, Snipes hitting 5-10k + on a build with near 30k resists and full impen ect.
Even if someone stacked as much healing and mitigation as they wanted all it would take is a single good bleedblade with sloads/viper, master axes and they are dead. The only time healing is overtuned is when people have multiple earthgores/bogdans in a raid, because otherwise I would just say it's people having bad damage and not knowing how to fight, I don't run high damage on my builds and still have no issues getting kills in no cp.2 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭I duelled my buddy on a 60k troll tank with 50k resistances and killed him after a min or 2 with 2.5k wd and no proc sets...
L2p issue you just need to know how
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.4 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭La & meds be at cap now too
Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I never had a BG timeout and have no problem in killing tanks with high penetration, I do use medium armor and high burst0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
I wouldn´t necessary say we´re in a Heavy armor meta but rather a high resistance meta, and you don´t need Heavy armor to reach high resistance values. I see quite many medium and light armor builds these Days running 3 protective.
To me there´re two things that pushed the "tank-meta" even further:
1. Speed nerfs with Murkmire: If you can´t kite or rely on high mobility to avoid damage, you need to build tankier in order to absorb more damage and/or group up with more people.
2. Poor performance: Nothing new that performance got even worse lately. With poor performance you are more or less forced to play tankier since the regular options for counterplay doesn´t work (Dodge roll, break free, timed block etc....)
4 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
I wouldn´t necessary say we´re in a Heavy armor meta but rather a high resistance meta, and you don´t need Heavy armor to reach high resistance values. I see quite many medium and light armor builds these Days running 3 protective.
To me there´re two things that pushed the "tank-meta" even further:
1. Speed nerfs with Murkmire: If you can´t kite or rely on high mobility to avoid damage, you need to build tankier in order to absorb more damage and/or group up with more people.
2. Poor performance: Nothing new that performance got even worse lately. With poor performance you are more or less forced to play tankier since the regular options for counterplay doesn´t work (Dodge roll, break free, timed block etc....)
Oh I wish I could use one of animation canceling mechanics as a defensive tool, dodge and block in this performance mess are 3x more responsive than heals/shields and in general any skill. Like I roll once, then try to cast a shield aaand... Animation of shield cast starts like 2-3 seconds later. Give me a magicka roll dodge please
I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BG matches time out because healing output out shines damage output, by a lot.
Given how much more popular the CP campaign is than the no-CP campaign, I’m going to assume that when you refer to Cyrodiil, you’re referring to the CP campaign.
CP literally decreases the amount of damage you take, thus exacerbating the already giant imbalance between healing output vs damage output, making everyone a super tank.
Healing is just way too strong compared to the huge nerf to damage created by the Battle Spirit.
Healing in general? Or group based healing/specific healing builds? Or just a few OP sets like Earthgore, TK etc? Damage seems fine in general, it definitely doesn’t need to be higher. Certain healing abilties might be too strong in terms of how they apply to a group or faction members though. But we should be careful saying that healing is way OP as it depends on the ability and situation. CP is also a big culprit here.2 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »I never had a BG timeout and have no problem in killing tanks with high penetration, I do use medium armor and high burst
The trick is applying major defile and keeping it up on the target. Every tank or healer is vounerable to this.
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My setup to go to no CP from CP is to swap to medium armor from heavy. Which I did run in CP during the last event just fine, but the lag after that somehow happened more than full pop locked events with extra servers, makes it to where I need heavy. For no CP, there is less lag because of game mode AND lower population to where i can react and medium gives me back some sustain and damage lost by CP.
Been watching Sothas population debating making a switch myself but it seems the other option would be to tank up to maintain that, then run procs for damage or bleeds which are only combated by healing where damage reduction helps in CP and armor doesn't help. Theres really no more decisions to be made for CP or no CP for build in one over the other; just different. 1 is dictated more by sets, the other by lag.Edited by technohic on February 11, 2019 11:46AM0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Almost had a match time out last night. And yes, there are players getting mad heals, doing crazy damage, and hardly takin any damage. They're usually on a premade team. You're not supposed to be able eat your cake and still have it too. That's not balance.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BG matches time out because healing output out shines damage output, by a lot.
Given how much more popular the CP campaign is than the no-CP campaign, I’m going to assume that when you refer to Cyrodiil, you’re referring to the CP campaign.
CP literally decreases the amount of damage you take, thus exacerbating the already giant imbalance between healing output vs damage output, making everyone a super tank.
Healing is just way too strong compared to the huge nerf to damage created by the Battle Spirit.
Blame the healing proc sets. I don't know why people seem to think anyone using actual healing skills are the problem or conveniently leave out the proc set part.
Healing is not the problem, those proc sets are. When you have a proc set that heals more than a skill does, that's a problem no matter how you slice it. Heavy armor's trade-offs and loss of cost reduction would actually hurt if there wasn't a billion sets out there that allow you to heal without even slotting one or spending magicka to do so. Examples? 4x Earthgore, 4x Bogdan, 4x Chokethorn (though ideally only one Earthgore + 3 Bogdan is "recommended" if you want a heal set to carry your heavy armor builds). Let's not get into HP% heals and green/red dragon blood combined with these proc sets in no-CP.
But let's keep saying "healing is the problem" and forget the proc set part. Either way, it's a result of ZOS' nerfs and continued addition of damaging proc sets that do too much damage. Enjoy, because even if heals got nerfed today, then those same groups would crutch on 100% AoE damage proc sets.
Proc sets have destroyed the game and Zos just keeps adding them.
It is my hope that proc sets will be brought in line with the "vision" for combat Zos is working on developing.
2 -
apri✭✭✭✭There is too much heals in the game, causing trouble both for PVE and PVP. The issue is not that it's too strong but that healing is too accessible by any build instead of being a healer's role privilege. You have amazing healing AOE output just with dps' or tanks' vigor in ball groups, added with momentum and alike. You have the option to slot healing monster sets for any role. All that in combination makes healing strong even if there's no specialized healer around. That's just plain wrong.
It's not the fault of healing skills or sets, it's the fault that any role can heal quite efficiently. This is hurtful for all parts of the game, making healers more and more obsolete while there's still the outcry that healing is too strong. The solution would be to make healing more exclusive to the role of a healer which also would help out with many pvp problems. Bursts might actually hurt more, healers would have more of an impact and there would be the option of proper counterplay by taking down healers first. It would also make PVP more interesting because a good group would have to protect their healers for that very reason, sort of a counter-counterplay
.
Even Earthgore would not be that much of an issue if DPS or tanks could not slot it anymore. Make it bound to the role of a healer and proc only if a healing staff is equipped, for example. If healing is merely a healer's thing again, take down the healer(s) in pvp and you are sorted with the problem. Also if healing is the healer's privilege in the game, the demand for healers in PVE activities would increase again. The 3 DD/1 tank setup for speed runs in dungeons or DSA or 10 DD/1 tank/1 healer in certain trials might not work that well anymore. It would help the game a lot to have healing be a healer's thing again.
The current development goes into a wrong direction, making everything accessible for everyone. While I think that's ok for support and debuffs to some extent, healing, tanking and dps should stay core activities for each role and not become unified too much.Edited by apri on February 11, 2019 11:54AM5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »
With all the Defiles in PvP I'd like to disagree.IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »I duelled my buddy on a 60k troll tank with 50k resistances and killed him after a min or 2 with 2.5k wd and no proc sets...
L2p issue you just need to know how
Because 2min 1vs1 fights are so entertaining in PvP.
Edited by Seraphayel on February 11, 2019 12:20PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Almost had a match time out last night. And yes, there are players getting mad heals, doing crazy damage, and hardly takin any damage. They're usually on a premade team. You're not supposed to be able eat your cake and still have it too. That's not balance.
So if you are talking about a premade team; are they staying tight together? I don't do a lot of battlegrounds but you see them in Cyrodiil. I'd imagine in a PUG in a battleground you are not going to be able to deal with that as you need to take out their healer or they may have 2 although I'd be surprised in a 4 man; and I do not see a PUG able to stay on them enough to have the damage while survive the coordination of the enemy group. Its going to get even harrier with another team thrown in the mix. The premade is going to be able to turtle better and focus better while the other 2 teams kill each other. Its not a tank and heal meta at this point. Its just a life fact that coordination and planning will outdo random people just thrown into the mix together.
I guess I'd be curious of what you all would want done. Nerf their healing, you nerf your healing and you are in the same spot just with less healing? It would just be a shorter time to kill but that really favors zergs as the smaller group needs to survive to maneuver. If you limit it to having a specific healer role maybe with heals drawing its power from something other than max resources and weapon/spell damage then that will also favor groups who have dedicated healers.
Personally; I run defiles. It really was a decent counter and still is but the uptime has been harder to manage.Edited by technohic on February 11, 2019 1:12PM3 -
jhall03✭✭✭✭Cyrodiil is plagued with heavy armored zergs, and BG matches consistently time out since everyone is in heavy.
The heavy armor meta in conjunction with the ridiculous potency of has really killed the joy that I used to have playing PvP.
And proc sets only strengthen these heavy armor builds.
2. Poor performance: Nothing new that performance got even worse lately. With poor performance you are more or less forced to play tankier since the regular options for counterplay doesn´t work (Dodge roll, break free, timed block etc....)
Yes, performance is a big issue. Wearing heavy or high resistance allows the player to recover when the game does not do what they asked it to.
0
