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Lack of Racial Identity between Altmer and Dunmer
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twing1_✭✭✭✭@colossalvoids
On the stamina side of things, magicka utility would be the tradeoff. This is great for things like self heals, sustain tools (dark deal for Stam sorc, especially), crowd control, other survival mechanics (like cloak for night blades).
Similar comparisons can be made between stamina dunmer and orcs. Currently, there is no reason to choose Stam dunmer over orc. Giving them this same off stat utility would, in my eyes, make the decision a little more difficult.0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@colossalvoids
On the stamina side of things, magicka utility would be the tradeoff. This is great for things like self heals, sustain tools (dark deal for Stam sorc, especially), crowd control, other survival mechanics (like cloak for night blades).
Similar comparisons can be made between stamina dunmer and orcs. Currently, there is no reason to choose Stam dunmer over orc. Giving them this same off stat utility would, in my eyes, make the decision a little more difficult.
The problem is that there is no way to sustain stamsorc on a dunmer, so there is no chance it happens. All self healing is stamina based and scaling accordingly. And even cloak being pure pvp you need to pressure someone too much for a single cloak cast, so it's a dead passive even in this regard. The only use I see is tanking and dark dealing magsorc, probably vAS interrupter even to be concrete here. Do dunmer need it? In no way. It takes but gives literally nothing. They are not a hybrid, but a race able to perform both roles adequate which is not the same and it gives more identity then any flavor passives. We don't need a ''feel'', we make it ourselves.
And in comparison with orc you probably know that he's overtuned a bit in this pts cycle. But there is a thing still - dunmer can go vamp having easier time and have mag instead of health bonus. Seems like a difference already.0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Silver_Strider
I agree that would be a very nice way to balance the magicka dunmer side of things, but I fear that stamina Dunmers would not see nearly as large a benefit (after all, they are supposed to be competitive stamina builds as well).
Status effects are easy to come by as a magicka user (weapon attacks with staffs have a chance to apply them, and all end game builds implement these in one way or another), but status effects are not built into any stamina weapons, nor most weapon abilities (poison injection is the only endgame-viable one that comes to mind). This would then rely on stamina dunmer to run poisons on their weapons or elemental enchants to receive the benefit of this passive, if their class abilities do not offer status effects (most don't, on the stamina side of things at least). And running these enchants/poisons could end up costing them major dps, as running these would not allow them to use berserker/absorb stamina enchants. Although, come to think of it, for the majority of endgame content there are often plenty magicka users in a group to apply these effects, but that would require group play and there are currently no other passives on any of the races that possess this requisite.
I also feel it wouldn't suit their notoriety as skilled warrior-casters quite as well.
But this is a nice alternative to consider. I'll edit it into the original post later.
That's the thing though. Dunmer is already a very solid Stamina DPS choice, even before they got their Stamina increase to 1875, that they don't really even need the buff at all. In fact, it's entirely possible it might make them OP in the stamina department if it wasn't for the fact that most stamina builds have little to no way of applying status effects, which makes it the perfect type of buff to boost up their Magic DPS while having limited applications for their Stamina DPS to keep it as balanced as possible, although in a trial setting, Stamina Dunmer might become the most powerful DPS so it's a bit of a pain to truly balance in every content.Edited by Silver_Strider on February 8, 2019 8:38PMArgonian forever0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »I understand that you have good intentions, but you are pushing dunmer to hybrid style which is not working in PVE and only applicable to PVP, while majority of dunmers are PVE magdps. So you are making altmer stronger which will enrage khajiits and bretons and push all dunmer players to PVP. No wonder that your propositions will be opposed by anybody then altmers.
@MartiniDaniels
Shouldn't different races have different strengths though? If not, then what's the point of having races with different stats to begin with?
I feel like that's where our views differ. I believe balance can be achieved while at the same time providing the player base a variety of different playstyles. I don't believe that every race should have the exact same proficiency for every different aspect of the game as every other race. That's why some races are better suited for stamina, and others better suited for magicka, afterall. I think it's okay for altmers to have a slight edge in trials and dunmer to have a slight edge in pvp. They will both maintain their viability in each anyway, afterall.
I feel like Dunmer's are just in this weird gray zone right now where they are trying to be as good as altmers/orcs but are statistically unable to get there, and they are not getting anything out of it in return. Every other race right now has a reason for players to choose it. From a statistical perspective, there is no reason for someone to choose dunmer over altmer for a magicka character and dunmer over orc for a stamina character.
All I'm trying to do is find a way to get them out of this gray zone and establish their racial identity.Edited by twing1_ on February 9, 2019 4:54PM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »I understand that you have good intentions, but you are pushing dunmer to hybrid style which is not working in PVE and only applicable to PVP, while majority of dunmers are PVE magdps. So you are making altmer stronger which will enrage khajiits and bretons and push all dunmer players to PVP. No wonder that your propositions will be opposed by anybody then altmers.
@MartiniDaniels
Shouldn't different races have different strengths though? If not, then what's the point of having races with different stats to begin with?
I feel like that's where our views differ. I believe balance can be achieved while at the same time providing the player base a variety of different playstyles. I don't believe that every race should have the exact same proficiency for every different aspect of the game as every other race. That's why some races are better suited for stamina, and others better suited for magicka, afterall. I think it's okay for altmers to have a slight edge in trials and dunmer to have a slight edge in pvp.
I feel like Dunmer's are just in this weird gray zone right now where they are trying to be as good as altmers/orcs but are statistically unable to get there, and they are not getting anything out of it in return. Every other race right now has a reason for players to choose it. From a statistical perspective, there is no reason for someone to choose dunmer over altmer for a magicka character and dunmer over orc for a stamina character.
All I'm trying to do is find a way to get them out of this gray zone and establish their racial identity.
Orcs will be nerfed, if ZOS won't nerf them now, they will nerf them later, they can't have that much stats.
From statistical perspective 125 magicka is nothing really... that extra roll dodge which dunmer will have may save you more time and dps in real raid conditions then 125 magicka. I mean look at VMA, when I run VMA i use tri-stat potions and even wear some tri-stat enchantments cause i need more health and stamina in that conditions.
So dunmer and altmer will be choice for people with solid trained rotations and will have better burst damage and will be better at the execute stages, khajiits will be sitting in high-crits builds and bretons will be a good casual way to go and probably most effective in hands of average player.
So problem is that altmer and dunmer are nearly exactly the same and stamina regen of altmer opposes lore.1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »They are not a hybrid, but a race able to perform both roles adequate which is not the same and it gives more identity then any flavor passives.
This is the problem. They are able to perform both roles adequately, but are statistically overshadowed in those roles by their respective counter parts, altmer and orc.
So why choose dunmer? Because if you are mag you can potentially spend gold to skill respec into stamina and still not be as viable as an orc? And then you retain the ability to be able to spec back into magicka and still not be as viable as an altmer?
They will never be as good as an altmer/orc from a min/max perspective. I'm simply proposing we embrace this, and stop playing dunmers as wannabes who will never be as good as the real deal. I say leave the min/maxing to the races who are truly capable of min/maxing.
Let dunmer have their own identity, and their own strengths and weaknesses, while at the same time retaining their never-perfect viability in endgame content (trials).0 -
Gryph13✭
I still think this problem comes down to a different problem in the game that is tied to damage dependence on one stat, which forces you into either magica or stanima. What would be more interesting and allow for more build diversity and allow Dunmers and other hybrid races to shine would be to untie damage to the highest stat and allow for dynamic interactions between stanima and magica. I am not sure how this would be done but it would increase build diversity and allow people to capitalise on differences vice being restricted by them.Edited by Gryph13 on February 8, 2019 8:58PM0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not a problem at all, as I have a reason to pick dummer still and to pick orc or any other stamina race, even nord could have a usage (war machine stam blade/plar/den). As I was able to test on pts there us almost no difference on 50+ parse, the only difference is health - magicka and resists - hps, sprint speed now is a dead one is a pvp snareland anyway, but dunmer have immunity to burning which is a lot.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »They are not a hybrid, but a race able to perform both roles adequate which is not the same and it gives more identity then any flavor passives.
This is the problem. They are able to perform both roles adequately, but are statistically overshadowed in those roles by their respective counter parts, altmer and orc.
So why choose dunmer? Because if you are mag you can potentially spend gold to skill respec into stamina and still not be as viable as an orc? And then you retain the ability to be able to spec back into magicka and still not be as viable as an altmer?
They will never be as good as an altmer/orc from a min/max perspective. I'm simply proposing we embrace this, and stop playing dunmers as wannabes who will never be as good as the real deal. I say leave the min/maxing to the races who are truly capable of min/maxing.
Let dunmer have their own identity, and their own strengths and weaknesses, while at the same time retaining their never-perfect viability in endgame content (trials).
You again do the same thing, you want to promote altmer while making dunmer something of RP/PVP race. Nobody other then some altmers wants this. I mean current magicka balance on PTS seems ok, they just need to replace altmer "stamina passive" with some magicka utility, but not related to dps. Maybe extra 5% to shield health cap whatever. For dunmer to keep their identity they need to return FIRE damage. Existing fire resistance is too weak to mean much.2 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: ».
From statistical perspective 125 magicka is nothing really... that extra roll dodge which dunmer will have may save you more time and dps in real raid conditions then 125 magicka. I mean look at VMA, when I run VMA i use tri-stat potions and even wear some tri-stat enchantments cause i need more health and stamina in that conditions.
@MartiniDaniels
Wouldnt having increased stamina recovery allow you to instead of running prismatic enchants allow you to focus more on full health enchants, saving you an enchant or two that you can use on magicka to offset my proposed "nerf" of 375 magicka?
And if 125 magicka is nothing, when does it start becoming something? 250? 375, apparently?
But yes, the main issue is altmer and dunmer being the exact same race with no identity. I just think the stamina recovery would go a long way differentiating them if it were on Dunmer. Perhaps drawing from their resource pools is a bit too severe though. Perhaps the off-stat sustain should be added with no reduction in their passives at all. Only testing would dictate what is truly balanced.Edited by twing1_ on February 8, 2019 9:05PM0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To be short - they are totally viable now, but like an orc only if you have exp sustaining. With proposed changes the gap will be wider and there will be more reasons to pick other races. This flavor passive literally gives nothing taking a passive spot so it's better chose a race with all the passives than one with only 3.0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Weren't Dunmer a stealthy race in morrowind? I remember they had bonuses in speed, destruction, stealth, and minor bonuses to medium armor and melee.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: ».
From statistical perspective 125 magicka is nothing really... that extra roll dodge which dunmer will have may save you more time and dps in real raid conditions then 125 magicka. I mean look at VMA, when I run VMA i use tri-stat potions and even wear some tri-stat enchantments cause i need more health and stamina in that conditions.
@MartiniDaniels
Wouldnt having increased stamina recovery allow you to instead of running prismatic enchants allow you to focus more on full health enchants, saving you an enchant or two that you can use on magicka to offset my proposed "nerf" of 375 magicka?
And if 125 magicka is nothing, when does it start becoming something? 250? 375, apparently?
But yes, the main issue is altmer and dunmer being the exact same race with no identity. I just think the stamina recovery would go a long way differentiating them if it were on Dunmer. Perhaps drawing from their resource pools is a bit too severe though. Perhaps the off-stat sustain should be added with no reduction in their passives at all. Only testing would dictate what is truly balanced.
125 is nothing, 500 starts to be noticeable.
Do you see this tests made by susmitds? As for me it's everything clear from them.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2/p11 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: ».
From statistical perspective 125 magicka is nothing really... that extra roll dodge which dunmer will have may save you more time and dps in real raid conditions then 125 magicka. I mean look at VMA, when I run VMA i use tri-stat potions and even wear some tri-stat enchantments cause i need more health and stamina in that conditions.
@MartiniDaniels
Wouldnt having increased stamina recovery allow you to instead of running prismatic enchants allow you to focus more on full health enchants, saving you an enchant or two that you can use on magicka to offset my proposed "nerf" of 375 magicka?
And if 125 magicka is nothing, when does it start becoming something? 250? 375, apparently?
But yes, the main issue is altmer and dunmer being the exact same race with no identity. I just think the stamina recovery would go a long way differentiating them if it were on Dunmer. Perhaps drawing from their resource pools is a bit too severe though. Perhaps the off-stat sustain should be added with no reduction in their passives at all. Only testing would dictate what is truly balanced.
125 is nothing, 500 starts to be noticeable.
Do you see this tests made by susmitds? As for me it's everything clear from them.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2/p1
@MartiniDaniels
I have, actually, and the most important thing I noticed was that dunmer was not optimal (the number one race) in any single category. They were overshadowed by altmer and orc, as their racial passives would indicate. I will not deny that their damage isn't far behind. But if it's not the best in any of those conditions, how do the dunmer stand out?
My answer to this question is in off stat utility. This would at least allow them to stand out from the other races in some regard. No, it wouldn't help much in trials. It would help in both pvp and vMA though. And I could live with that.Edited by twing1_ on February 8, 2019 9:18PM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: ».
From statistical perspective 125 magicka is nothing really... that extra roll dodge which dunmer will have may save you more time and dps in real raid conditions then 125 magicka. I mean look at VMA, when I run VMA i use tri-stat potions and even wear some tri-stat enchantments cause i need more health and stamina in that conditions.
@MartiniDaniels
Wouldnt having increased stamina recovery allow you to instead of running prismatic enchants allow you to focus more on full health enchants, saving you an enchant or two that you can use on magicka to offset my proposed "nerf" of 375 magicka?
And if 125 magicka is nothing, when does it start becoming something? 250? 375, apparently?
But yes, the main issue is altmer and dunmer being the exact same race with no identity. I just think the stamina recovery would go a long way differentiating them if it were on Dunmer. Perhaps drawing from their resource pools is a bit too severe though. Perhaps the off-stat sustain should be added with no reduction in their passives at all. Only testing would dictate what is truly balanced.
125 is nothing, 500 starts to be noticeable.
Do you see this tests made by susmitds? As for me it's everything clear from them.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2/p1
@MartiniDaniels
I have, actually, and the most important thing I noticed was that dunmer was not optimal (the number one race) in any single category. They were overshadowed by altmer and orc, as their racial passives would indicate. I will not deny that their damage isn't far behind. But if it's not the best in any of those conditions, how do the dunmer stand out?
My answer to this question is in off stat utility. This would at least allow them to stand out from the other races in some regard. No, it wouldn't help much in trials. It would help in both pvp and vMA though. And I could live with that.
They are not better then orc cause orc is clearly OP now. If orc will be nerfed by ~500 stamina they will be in line. Bosmer will require some buff or meaningful utility anyway.
In case of magicka they are only slightly behind altmer, but extra 1875 stamina imo is not worse then 125 magicka, even on magicka class
altmer will have better stamina sustain but given the bursty nature of roll-dodges it's hard to say which bonus is more useful, probably depends on situation.
Also I think some potionholic pvp builds maybe viable for hybrid dunmers, dragonknights especially.
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ThePainGuy✭✭✭Some good discussion going on in this forum thread. I do think dunmer is in a decent place (not a great place, but not a bad place either). Dunmer has max stats that make them viable as stamina DD or magicka DD. But they lack something cool or unique that highlights their race. In PVE I would pick altmer, khajit (especially after shadow mundus change), and breton as they appear to do better as magicka DD. For stamina i would choose orc (they are really buffed this week), Khajit (after shadow mundus again), and possibly redguard for stamina DD. For PVP, dunmer is a cool race due to elevation in both max stat pools, but i would argue that khajit is better (increase in all stat pools and all recovery stats so they get survivability, and better sustain). And higher crit chance for increased chance for crit damage and crit heals. That leaves dunmer in a weird place within the current PTS. What is dunmer showcasing or really good in PTS 4.3.2
Lets say for example the dunmer passives are (a slight alternative from what OP suggested)
1. Increase max stam/mag up to 1875
2. When you deal direct damage you restore your lowest stat resource by 645 (can occur once every 5 seconds) & fire resistance 2310 & burning immunity
3. Increase max weapon/spell damage to 258
Are there people in the community that think this is too OP in PVE/PVP for dunmers? What if the max stats were dropped to 1750. Is that ok? slight sacrifice in max stats for off stat utility. Or people just want what is on PTS now?
I am curious what people think as far as dunmer identity. They are not best at magicka or stamina DD in PVE. And they are just like khajits as far as hybrid race for PVP but Khajits has a unique flavor to them (increase in all stats with increase in crit chance).2 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭ThePainGuy wrote: »Some good discussion going on in this forum thread. I do think dunmer is in a decent place (not a great place, but not a bad place either). Dunmer has max stats that make them viable as stamina DD or magicka DD. But they lack something cool or unique that highlights their race. In PVE I would pick altmer, khajit (especially after shadow mundus change), and breton as they appear to do better as magicka DD. For stamina i would choose orc (they are really buffed this week), Khajit (after shadow mundus again), and possibly redguard for stamina DD. For PVP, dunmer is a cool race due to elevation in both max stat pools, but i would argue that khajit is better (increase in all stat pools and all recovery stats so they get survivability, and better sustain). And higher crit chance for increased chance for crit damage and crit heals. That leaves dunmer in a weird place within the current PTS. What is dunmer showcasing or really good in PTS 4.3.2
Lets say for example the dunmer passives are (a slight alternative from what OP suggested)
1. Increase max stam/mag up to 1875
2. When you deal direct damage you restore your lowest stat resource by 645 (can occur once every 5 seconds) & fire resistance 2310 & burning immunity
3. Increase max weapon/spell damage to 258
Are there people in the community that think this is too OP in PVE/PVP for dunmers? What if the max stats were dropped to 1750. Is that ok? slight sacrifice in max stats for off stat utility. Or people just want what is on PTS now?
I am curious what people think as far as dunmer identity. They are not best at magicka or stamina DD in PVE. And they are just like khajits as far as hybrid race for PVP but Khajits has a unique flavor to them (increase in all stats with increase in crit chance).
@ThePainGuy @MartiniDaniels
This. I'd like to reiterate, that this was not intended to be a nerf dunmer post. The important part to me is not that Dunmer's resource pools get reduced, it's the addition of off-stat sustain. I just have a hard time believing ZOS would add this without taking something in return. I tried to come up with numbers that seemed feasible (how does one calculate the offensive equivalent of off-stat sustain anyhow?), but obviously they were not.
In retrospect, dropping dunmer resource pools to 1500 seems like a bad idea, as they are already a race struggling to find their identity in endgame pve. I believe a drop to 1750 is the more fair price for the proposed additional off-stat sustain.
Does the price of 125 max main-stat sound reasonable to everyone else? I believe I would easily get 125 max main-stat value out of this substantial off-stat sustain.Edited by twing1_ on February 8, 2019 9:53PM0 -
ThePainGuy✭✭✭@twing1_
Hey I agree with your sentiment with dunmer feeling kind of bland. I didn't mind max stats at 1750 or even 1500 (as they are still a buff from the first week PTS). I was just asking others their concerns with the tradeoff to 1750 max stats in additionto the utility buff you suggested. The second passive currently on PTS 4.3.2 seems underwhelming. Spending 3 skill points for fire resistance/ burning immunity is not enough, thus adding the utility buff you suggested with a slight max stat reduction seemed logical. But some people oppose this, thus I was wondering if people would only accept this suggestion if the max stats currently stay as they are on PTS 4.3.2. ZOS would most likely not do this, but what is the minimal max stat the community would allow for an improvement to second passive and giving dunmers some identity.0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭@ThePainGuy
Yeah I understand completely. I was trying to find out the price people were willing to pay for the added off-stat sustain from the beginning, I was just having trouble communicating that. I thank you for your words on the matter, I couldn't have said it better myself (obviously, lol). Your contribution is welcomed with open arms.
I think it will streamline the process toward progress, as I got caught up in a bit of a back and fourth there for a while.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThePainGuy wrote: »@twing1_
Hey I agree with your sentiment with dunmer feeling kind of bland. I didn't mind max stats at 1750 or even 1500 (as they are still a buff from the first week PTS). I was just asking others their concerns with the tradeoff to 1750 max stats in additionto the utility buff you suggested. The second passive currently on PTS 4.3.2 seems underwhelming. Spending 3 skill points for fire resistance/ burning immunity is not enough, thus adding the utility buff you suggested with a slight max stat reduction seemed logical. But some people oppose this, thus I was wondering if people would only accept this suggestion if the max stats currently stay as they are on PTS 4.3.2. ZOS would most likely not do this, but what is the minimal max stat the community would allow for an improvement to second passive and giving dunmers some identity.
Well, addition on off-stat regen will make race much more powerful in PVP. (645/5*2=258 not scaling recovery, additional wings or cloaks for stamdk and stamblades both from maxmagicka and recovery) while in PVE it will be of limited use. So of course as a dunmer I'm ok if they added this on top of 1875 or even 1750, doesn't matter, but other races won't be happy with it.0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Well, addition on off-stat regen will make race much more powerful in PVP. (645/5*2=258 not scaling recovery, additional wings or cloaks for stamdk and stamblades both from maxmagicka and recovery) while in PVE it will be of limited use.
@MartiniDaniels
This is why I initially proposed to drop Dunmer resources so low, because I was weighing the PvP pros of this benefit against the PvE cons. When you were measuring the losses in PvE against the gains in PvE (almost nothing), I was measuring the losses in PvE against the gains in PvP (great).Edited by twing1_ on February 8, 2019 10:26PM0 -
ThePainGuy✭✭✭@MartiniDaniels
Thank you for the response. Another question for you. Are you ok with dunmer as it is now on PTS4.3.2. Do you feel the second passive with fire resist/burning immunity as adequate. Or do you think something else should be added to it? What if we suggested dropping the off-stat recovery to = 128 non-scaling recovery with 1750 max stats. That should make dunmer less overperforming.
0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThePainGuy wrote: »@MartiniDaniels
Thank you for the response. Another question for you. Are you ok with dunmer as it is now on PTS4.3.2. Do you feel the second passive with fire resist/burning immunity as adequate. Or do you think something else should be added to it? What if we suggested dropping the off-stat recovery to = 128 non-scaling recovery with 1750 max stats. That should make dunmer less overperforming.
Looks good imo, but i'm not a class representative or anything, so I doubt my opinion is of any value to ZOS if they even read this posts 0 -
ThePainGuy✭✭✭@MartiniDaniels
Hahaha, I hear you. I am fairly new to the game, so if you have doubts about the value of your opinion to ZOS, then i might as well stop posting, I have no value to ZOS. Cheers anyway, appreciated the discussion and insight.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThePainGuy wrote: »@MartiniDaniels
Hahaha, I hear you. I am fairly new to the game, so if you have doubts about the value of your opinion to ZOS, then i might as well stop posting, I have no value to ZOS. Cheers anyway, appreciated the discussion and insight.
Cheers, don't worry about ZOS, it's like with research, only 1 of 10 scientist will get something useful. But if there are 10 threads on same matter, one of threads may be noticed.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The OP created a very long post that in the end does demonstrate a difference by noting the Dunmer fire resistance and the Altmer off stat sustain.
They try to narrow down just the damage skills and try to say they are basically the same but you cannot pick and chose what you want to compare and make a meaningful and accurate statement.
I do not think the changes to the Altmer were good changes and their reasoning is just an excuse, but only stating that OP's comparison is inaccurate.
Edit: and the races are more balanced with these changes which is a good thing.Edited by idk on February 9, 2019 12:02AM2 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »ThePainGuy wrote: »@MartiniDaniels
Hahaha, I hear you. I am fairly new to the game, so if you have doubts about the value of your opinion to ZOS, then i might as well stop posting, I have no value to ZOS. Cheers anyway, appreciated the discussion and insight.
Cheers, don't worry about ZOS, it's like with research, only 1 of 10 scientist will get something useful. But if there are 10 threads on same matter, one of threads may be noticed.
So here's to getting this issue noticed 🍻
Thanks for participating, I feel like through your contributions to this thread, we've been able to refine potential changes to a point where they have a real chance of being picked up by ZOS... If they see this thread, of course.1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭The OP created a very long post that in the end does demonstrate a difference by noting the Dunmer fire resistance and the Altmer off stat sustain.
They try to narrow down just the damage skills and try to say they are basically the same but you cannot pick and chose what you want to compare and make a meaningful and accurate statement.
I do not think the changes to the Altmer were good changes and their reasoning is just an excuse, but only stating that OP's comparison is inaccurate.
@idk
I thought I had adequately explained the reasons why I limited the analysis to the offensive stats, but perhaps not.
In the vast majority of endgame content in this game, defensive stats don't really matter except for the tanking role. Endgame damage dealers, in particular, are expected to hit a benchmark for health (usually around the 17k mark to avoid one-shot mechanics) but beyond that, nothing more. This is because endgame content is built largely around cooperation and teamwork, where a designated tank will take the bulk of the damage, allowing damage dealers to focus on perfecting their rotation and squeezing out the last little bit of dps. In this format, defensive stats on damage dealers are for the most part unneeded and are largely wasted, since they do not take a lot of damage. And even in the instances in which they do take damage, they have a healer there to keep them alive.
This is why racial defensive passives are negligible at the best when analyzing them from a damage dealing perspective.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »ThePainGuy wrote: »@MartiniDaniels
Hahaha, I hear you. I am fairly new to the game, so if you have doubts about the value of your opinion to ZOS, then i might as well stop posting, I have no value to ZOS. Cheers anyway, appreciated the discussion and insight.
Cheers, don't worry about ZOS, it's like with research, only 1 of 10 scientist will get something useful. But if there are 10 threads on same matter, one of threads may be noticed.
So here's to getting this issue noticed 🍻
Thanks for participating, I feel like through your contributions to this thread, we've been able to refine potential changes to a point where they have a real chance of being picked up by ZOS... If they see this thread, of course.
Thanks, let's hope there will be some reasonable changes on PTS next week!1