MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vertilvius wrote: »

You Suck Zos!

Consider 2 things:
1. We recevied 2 set bonus worth universal conditional recovery 133/133/133 instead of some random pvp-only worth vampiric heal;
2. Your 2K health can be converted to crazy passive stam recovery with lava-foot soop. Yes you will need to add one big health glyph on armor to compensate, but you'll have crazy good sustain in such scenario;

Agreed, but stillloss of identity, especially with block/bash being only useful to tanks in niche applications.

Minno wrote: »

And the heal is bad in PvP now. 300 health, dropped to 150 after battlespirit before defile. Might as well delete it; you wont feel the heal lol.

Yes the heal is bad but at least now you some extra sustain which Imperial didn't have prior to this change which is fairly useful all things considered.

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Vertilvius wrote: »

You Suck Zos!

How productive...

As I said in the official thread:

Imperial
Red Diamond: Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will reduce the cost of Block and Bash by 5%.

This is definitely a step in the right direction. However, I still think it needs to be pushed further, either by reducing the cooldown to 2 seconds or increasing the restoration to 830 Health, Magicka, and Stamina with a 5 second cooldown.

In either case, it makes it so that - assuming 100% uptime of direct damage every 2 or 5 seconds - there is ~166 recovery of the three stats. That is useful, while I'm not sure that 333 H/M/S ever 5 seconds necessarily is (although, again, this is far superior to the previous iteration).

Overall, I think it is a big improvement and a welcome change. However, I posted this is another thread as well, because I still think Imperial ought to be focused on martial skills given their game history.

Originally, I suggested:

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee Skill Line* by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 2000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon Damage by 258
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750 and restore 950 Stamina.

*Two-Handed, Dual-Wield, and One Hand and Shield

With the new updates, I feel that a suitable melding of new and old would be:

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee Skill Line* by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 1000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon Damage by 258
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you restore 650 Health and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

Imperials are good at magic as well Please don't forget us.

Considering even with our 64 points of attribute allocation, note how HP is weighted far less than the 'damage' resources of stamina and magicka. Every point of HP invested is worth almost x1.5 the value of stam/mag. For ZOS to deem HP of equal weighting and give us 333 HP/S/M every 5 seconds is erroneous, not to mention 66.6resources/s is pretty damn miniscule, and that is ASSUMING you hit your opponent with direct damage every 5 seconds without fail.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

WikiMeister wrote: »

Considering even with our 64 points of attribute allocation, note how HP is weighted far less than the 'damage' resources of stamina and magicka. Every point of HP invested is worth almost x1.5 the value of stam/mag. For ZOS to deem HP of equal weighting and give us 333 HP/S/M every 5 seconds is erroneous, not to mention 66.6resources/s is pretty damn miniscule, and that is ASSUMING you hit your opponent with direct damage every 5 seconds without fail.

Yeah, nailed it.

2000 2300 max hp
2000 max sta
333 1200 hp and 500 sta/mag every 5 sec on direct dmg.
Block/Bash cost -5%

I don't know what to do with the block utility. Anything lower than 1200 hp return is pretty redundant with battle spirit.

Just my opinion but I would also change 2000 max stamina to 1500/1500 max magicka and max stamina. Tanks like magicka too and it would make magicka imperials more viable - though it would nerf imperial PvP stamplars a bit, which is probably the most common use of the race at the moment?

Yamenstein wrote: »

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Vertilvius wrote: »

You Suck Zos!

How productive...

As I said in the official thread:

Imperial
Red Diamond: Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will reduce the cost of Block and Bash by 5%.

This is definitely a step in the right direction. However, I still think it needs to be pushed further, either by reducing the cooldown to 2 seconds or increasing the restoration to 830 Health, Magicka, and Stamina with a 5 second cooldown.

In either case, it makes it so that - assuming 100% uptime of direct damage every 2 or 5 seconds - there is ~166 recovery of the three stats. That is useful, while I'm not sure that 333 H/M/S ever 5 seconds necessarily is (although, again, this is far superior to the previous iteration).

Overall, I think it is a big improvement and a welcome change. However, I posted this is another thread as well, because I still think Imperial ought to be focused on martial skills given their game history.

Originally, I suggested:

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee Skill Line* by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 2000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon Damage by 258
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750 and restore 950 Stamina.

*Two-Handed, Dual-Wield, and One Hand and Shield

With the new updates, I feel that a suitable melding of new and old would be:

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee Skill Line* by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 1000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon Damage by 258
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you restore 650 Health and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

Imperials are good at magic as well Please don't forget us.

@FilteredRiddle I know you are in the thread I created saying the same thing you are here. You are trying hard to push imperial as a stam DPS and tank only and they are Sooooooo much more. They do everything and this guy even says it as well lol.

I had lots of people agreeing they would like to see
2000 health
2000 magic
2000 stamina
500 to all recovery through red diamond then they can compete just in sustain.

Or someone recommend one better
1500 health
1250 magic and stamina
Red diamond allows us to use an extra mundus stone.

Again I am not leaning to magic I'm making them what their lore is. Their lore says they do everything whether you like it or not, all you are doing is ignoring their lore and trying to mold them into how you want them to be. Please understand people want imperial mages. Even the new villain of elsewhere is going to be IMPERIAL NECROMANCERS meaning they will have magic watch. I guarantee you they will not be stamina necromancers for the story watch. We already have imperial mages in the game through the main story but yet you say their lore doesn't belong here? I just don't get where you are coming from at all other than taking one aspect of a race and thinking that should be the only version implimented.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Imperials are good at magic as well Please don't forget us.

@FilteredRiddle I know you are in the thread I created saying the same thing you are here. You are trying hard to push imperial as a stam DPS and tank only and they are Sooooooo much more. They do everything and this guy even says it as well lol.

[...]

Again I am not leaning to magic I'm making them what their lore is. Their lore says they do everything whether you like it or not, all you are doing is ignoring their lore and trying to mold them into how you want them to be. [...] I just don't get where you are coming from at all other than taking one aspect of a race and thinking that should be the only version implimented.

There is a miscommunication or lack of reading comprehension going on somewhere.

At no point have I ever said “Imperial magic users do not exist.” What I have said... repeatedly... is that by and large Imperials are a martial people and - as I would presume racial passives are determined not by the minority but the majority - their ‘stereotype’ should be the determinant for their racial capabilities.

There may be a select population of capable Imperial Mages, in the same way there are Nord Mages, Redguard Mages, Orc Mages, Bosmer Mages, Breton Knights, Altmer Knights, etc, etc, etc but those outliers do not change the majority of the race. TES lore would seem to support this supposition, given the previous games’ passives for Imperials. I have linked them in other threads, but evidently I need to do so again.

General:
Imperials, in Lore, are known for their civility, diplomacy, order, and wealth. They are inspired by RL Romans.

Morrowind:
- +10 Speechcraft
- +10 Mercantile
- +10 Long Blade
- +5 Blunt Weapon
- +5 Light Armor
- +5 Hand-to-hand
- Absorb Fatigue 200 pts on target
- Charm 25 to 50 pts for 15 seconds on target

Oblivion:
- +10 Mercantile
- +10 Speechcraft
- +10 Heavy Armor
- +5 Blade
- +5 Blunt
- +5 Hand to Hand
- Absorb Fatigue 100 points on Touch, once per day
- Charm 30 points for 30 seconds on Target, once per day

Skyrim
- +10 Restoration
- +5 Block
- +5 Destruction
- +5 Enchanting
- +5 Heavy Armor
- +5 One-handed
- Anywhere gold coins might be found, Imperials always seem to find a few more, constant
- Calms nearby people for 60 seconds, once per day

The consistent bonuses are to various weapon types, fatigue (stamina), military background, and speech/charming.

All of the above data is taken from UESP.

Game Stats:
Morrowind
- 25/45 Martial (55.56%)
- 20/45 Utility (44.44%)
- Fatigue (Stamina + Health) absorb
- Utility charm

Oblivion
- 25/45 Martial (55.56%)
- 20/45 Utility (44.44%)
- Farigue (Stamina + Health) absorb
- Utility charm

Skyrim
- 15/35 Martial (42.86%)
- 15/35 Magic (42.86%)
- 05/35 Utility (14.29%)
- Utility wealth
- Utility charm

In other words, we have 3 games where 2 highlight Imperials as a martial race and one which highlights them as a hybrid. Okay. What does the lore say?

Game Lore:

Utilizing UESP and TES wiki:

Colovians

Colovia is the western part of Cyrodiil and is known for its austere, martial culture and rugged population of Nordic descendants. The Colovian region has traditionally contributed its sons to the Imperial Legion, making up the bulk of its ranks in native legions.

Their culture developed different from their eastern counterparts, with a dislike for magic and industry, instead preferring warfare and plundering. Upon conquering the entirety of western Cyrodiil, these Colovians also became masters of seafaring, creating fleets whose earliest voyages allowed them to raid the Illiac Bay and the Cape of the Blue Divide annually, until the arrival of the Yokudan Navies, which were superior.

Being self-sufficient, hearty, extremely loyal, hard work, tough-mindedness, and uncomplicated. They also pride themselves in their reputation for being independent, rough, and rebellious, with much of their income coming from the export of wood. When the Empire suffers a weak ruler, the Colovians withdraw onto their own land and take care of their own, believing they kept the national spirit alive. At the same time, when a mighty Emperor has the throne, the Colovians gladly serve in his ranks. Many Colovians take up positions in the Imperial Legions and Navy, proud for their role within the army, not caring for courtly life.

Nibenese

The Nibenese culture is considered esoteric and philosophical, with focus on elaborate ceremony. n opposition to the oppression from the Ayleids, the role of the battlemage was conceived, and these mages went on to become the ruling class of the Nibenese people.

The people of Nibenay are seen as the soul of Cyrodiil, being famous for their kindness towards defeated enemies, tolerance, and administrative capabilities. Within the Nibenay Valley the Cyro-Nordic tribes learned a self-reliance which managed to seperate them both culturally and economically from Skyrim. The Nibenese around this time also formed a support troop for their armies, the Battlemage. When the Alessian Doctrines had come to pass, these Battlemages had become the ruling body of the Nibenese, but were quickly replaced by the Alessian Priesthood. The Eight Divines were put aside in favor of ancestor spirits and animal gods, which were encouraged by the Alessian faith. Nibenean culture would adapt to this religious reform greatly, resulting in restrictions on certain kinds of meat, alongside the increasing sentiment for animal cults, made agriculture and husbandry nearly impossible in the east. As such, many of eastern Cyrodiil became merchants, over time allowing their lands to become the wealthiest of Cyrodiil. Even so, the merchants were reminded the priesthood held the real power, being forced to pay many coins to the priesthood.

The people of Nibenay from [sic] the heart of the Empire, as well as its cultural center. But one that is fragile, and only held together by a strong Emperor. Above the farmers are the merchant-nobility, the temple priests and cult leaders, and yet above those is the aristocracy of the Battlemages. The highest power of Nibenean culture is granted to the Emperor.

Therefore we have the two distinct Imperial cultures. The Colovians are all a martial people; it is their socio-cultural identity. The Nibenese, in contrast are a primarily religious mercantile people with a Battlemage aristocracy. That is, their socio-cultural identity tends towards a mercantile theocratic aristocracy, with the Emperor as their pseudo god-ruler. The Battlemages are a social class, outlined by capabilities and military prowess in a religious culture.

Again, in the other thread there was a clear misunderstanding of what was being said in making real parallels. I’ll try to be clearer to again help elucidate my point.

Colovians:
Despite Nords commonly be paralleled with Vikings, Colovians are actually in some ways a better comparison to Vikings from a strictly warrior culture POV. Not only were Vikings prolific land and maritime combatants but they were skilled traders, and the entirety of their population internalized the military cultural values and traditions. When you compare the evolution of Vikings from maritime plunderers to land developers, with a fierce strain of loyalism, pride, ruggedness, all while maintaining open trade routes until circumstances force them to hunker down, to that of the Colovians, it is a perfect match. I think it is then fair to say that all Colovians are, 'stereotypically' militarily minded.

Nibenese:
The Nibenese, in contrast, is very similar to Ancient Rome during the period of time where there was the active deification of the Roman Emperor. All of its people were mercantile and religiously minded. Their focus was on their deities and the farming and trade necessary to support their Alessian faith. They all had a respect for magic, but that was not their cultural focus in the slightest. Again, the Battlemages were a social class; religion supported by infrastructure (farming and trade) was the heart at the center of Nibenese functioning. How do we then parse out their stereotype? Well.. The merchant class was considered nobility, but I do not see a source which states how much of the population was in this merchant nobility. We do know that in the real world, in England, <5% of the total population is in the nobility. However, England has taken steps to limit the growth of its nobility (e.g. only the eldest inheriting their father's title). We see no evidence that Imperials took those same steps, but in the real world even the highest amount of Nobility to non-Nobility was 10%, so I have used a 10% number. During the aforementioned Roman time period, the Roman priesthood was filled with the Roman elite but the actual priestly college the Arval Brethren had 12 priests at most. There were then other religious groups such as the Augurs (up to 25), Vestals (6 women), etc. As we have no way of knowing how many people made up the actual priesthood however, 5% of the total population seemed apropos because again, I would rather overestimate. The Battlemages are defined as the aristocracy and military elite. Again, we do not know how many soldiers are in the Battlemages. An Aristocracy is usually ~1% or so, however, in the real life US, SOCOM runs their military elite and it currently has an estimation of 69,000 troops out of a total 1,356,929 active duty personnel which is, yet again, 5%. Therefore, I find it appropriate to say that, of the Nibenese population 10% are merchant-nobility, 5% are religious leaders, and 5% are Battlemages.

Conclusion:
From a strictly game stats history POV, Imperials are not magical. There was one game where they were a hybrid, and two games where they were suited to Tanking and Stamina-like DPS. Period. They are also charming.

From a strictly lore POV we can say - roughly - that half the social identity is Colovian and half the social identity is Nibenese. 100% of the Colovian identity is martial. 10% of the Nibenese identity is magical (Battlemages and Priests).

From either POV, it supports the idea that Imperials are overwhelmingly martial, with a touch of magic here and there. However, every race has a "touch" of something here or there. If we took the outliers of ever race, racial passives would be pointless. Lore would be pointless. Bosmer have Spinners, Orcs have Shaman, etc. That does not mean the identity of the race, in a TES game should be shaped around those small examples. Passives are meant to represent the majority identity of a race and not the minority. Imperial should be built, first and foremost, as a martial race. It's focus, first and foremost, should be as a Tank or Stamina DPS and a good one for both. These are Imperials!

However, again, there was some missed reading comprehension somewhere in my other post to which the previous poster referred, because at the bottom I also said if it's really that important, Imperials could reasonably be altered as so:

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee or Staff Skill Line by 10%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 1000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon or Staff Damage by 258, based on your highest maximum resource.
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you restore 650 Health and either Stamina or Magicka based on your highest maximum resource. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Imperials are good at magic as well Please don't forget us.

@FilteredRiddle I know you are in the thread I created saying the same thing you are here. You are trying hard to push imperial as a stam DPS and tank only and they are Sooooooo much more. They do everything and this guy even says it as well lol.

[...]

Again I am not leaning to magic I'm making them what their lore is. Their lore says they do everything whether you like it or not, all you are doing is ignoring their lore and trying to mold them into how you want them to be. [...] I just don't get where you are coming from at all other than taking one aspect of a race and thinking that should be the only version implimented.

There is a miscommunication or lack of reading comprehension going on somewhere.

At no point have I ever said “Imperial magic users do not exist.” What I have said... repeatedly... is that by and large Imperials are a martial people and - as I would presume racial passives are determined not by the minority but the majority - their ‘stereotype’ should be the determinant for their racial capabilities.

There may be a select population of capable Imperial Mages, in the same way there are Nord Mages, Redguard Mages, Orc Mages, Bosmer Mages, Breton Knights, Altmer Knights, etc, etc, etc but those outliers do not change the majority of the race. TES lore would seem to support this supposition, given the previous games’ passives for Imperials. I have linked them in other threads, but evidently I need to do so again.

General:
Imperials, in Lore, are known for their civility, diplomacy, order, and wealth. They are inspired by RL Romans.

Morrowind:
- +10 Speechcraft
- +10 Mercantile
- +10 Long Blade
- +5 Blunt Weapon
- +5 Light Armor
- +5 Hand-to-hand
- Absorb Fatigue 200 pts on target
- Charm 25 to 50 pts for 15 seconds on target

Oblivion:
- +10 Mercantile
- +10 Speechcraft
- +10 Heavy Armor
- +5 Blade
- +5 Blunt
- +5 Hand to Hand
- Absorb Fatigue 100 points on Touch, once per day
- Charm 30 points for 30 seconds on Target, once per day

Skyrim
- +10 Restoration
- +5 Block
- +5 Destruction
- +5 Enchanting
- +5 Heavy Armor
- +5 One-handed
- Anywhere gold coins might be found, Imperials always seem to find a few more, constant
- Calms nearby people for 60 seconds, once per day

The consistent bonuses are to various weapon types, fatigue (stamina), military background, and speech/charming.

All of the above data is taken from UESP.

Game Stats:
Morrowind
- 25/45 Martial (55.56%)
- 20/45 Utility (44.44%)
- Fatigue (Stamina + Health) absorb
- Utility charm

Oblivion
- 25/45 Martial (55.56%)
- 20/45 Utility (44.44%)
- Farigue (Stamina + Health) absorb
- Utility charm

Skyrim
- 15/35 Martial (42.86%)
- 15/35 Magic (42.86%)
- 05/35 Utility (14.29%)
- Utility wealth
- Utility charm

In other words, we have 3 games where 2 highlight Imperials as a martial race and one which highlights them as a hybrid. Okay. What does the lore say?

Game Lore:

Utilizing UESP and TES wiki:

Colovians

Colovia is the western part of Cyrodiil and is known for its austere, martial culture and rugged population of Nordic descendants. The Colovian region has traditionally contributed its sons to the Imperial Legion, making up the bulk of its ranks in native legions.

Their culture developed different from their eastern counterparts, with a dislike for magic and industry, instead preferring warfare and plundering. Upon conquering the entirety of western Cyrodiil, these Colovians also became masters of seafaring, creating fleets whose earliest voyages allowed them to raid the Illiac Bay and the Cape of the Blue Divide annually, until the arrival of the Yokudan Navies, which were superior.

Being self-sufficient, hearty, extremely loyal, hard work, tough-mindedness, and uncomplicated. They also pride themselves in their reputation for being independent, rough, and rebellious, with much of their income coming from the export of wood. When the Empire suffers a weak ruler, the Colovians withdraw onto their own land and take care of their own, believing they kept the national spirit alive. At the same time, when a mighty Emperor has the throne, the Colovians gladly serve in his ranks. Many Colovians take up positions in the Imperial Legions and Navy, proud for their role within the army, not caring for courtly life.

Nibenese

The Nibenese culture is considered esoteric and philosophical, with focus on elaborate ceremony. n opposition to the oppression from the Ayleids, the role of the battlemage was conceived, and these mages went on to become the ruling class of the Nibenese people.

The people of Nibenay are seen as the soul of Cyrodiil, being famous for their kindness towards defeated enemies, tolerance, and administrative capabilities. Within the Nibenay Valley the Cyro-Nordic tribes learned a self-reliance which managed to seperate them both culturally and economically from Skyrim. The Nibenese around this time also formed a support troop for their armies, the Battlemage. When the Alessian Doctrines had come to pass, these Battlemages had become the ruling body of the Nibenese, but were quickly replaced by the Alessian Priesthood. The Eight Divines were put aside in favor of ancestor spirits and animal gods, which were encouraged by the Alessian faith. Nibenean culture would adapt to this religious reform greatly, resulting in restrictions on certain kinds of meat, alongside the increasing sentiment for animal cults, made agriculture and husbandry nearly impossible in the east. As such, many of eastern Cyrodiil became merchants, over time allowing their lands to become the wealthiest of Cyrodiil. Even so, the merchants were reminded the priesthood held the real power, being forced to pay many coins to the priesthood.

The people of Nibenay from [sic] the heart of the Empire, as well as its cultural center. But one that is fragile, and only held together by a strong Emperor. Above the farmers are the merchant-nobility, the temple priests and cult leaders, and yet above those is the aristocracy of the Battlemages. The highest power of Nibenean culture is granted to the Emperor.

Therefore we have the two distinct Imperial cultures. The Colovians are all a martial people; it is their socio-cultural identity. The Nibenese, in contrast are a primarily religious mercantile people with a Battlemage aristocracy. That is, their socio-cultural identity tends towards a mercantile theocratic aristocracy, with the Emperor as their pseudo god-ruler. The Battlemages are a social class, outlined by capabilities and military prowess in a religious culture.

Again, in the other thread there was a clear misunderstanding of what was being said in making real parallels. I’ll try to be clearer to again help elucidate my point.

Colovians:
Despite Nords commonly be paralleled with Vikings, Colovians are actually in some ways a better comparison to Vikings from a strictly warrior culture POV. Not only were Vikings prolific land and maritime combatants but they were skilled traders, and the entirety of their population internalized the military cultural values and traditions. When you compare the evolution of Vikings from maritime plunderers to land developers, with a fierce strain of loyalism, pride, ruggedness, all while maintaining open trade routes until circumstances force them to hunker down, to that of the Colovians, it is a perfect match. I think it is then fair to say that all Colovians are, 'stereotypically' militarily minded.

Nibenese:
The Nibenese, in contrast, is very similar to Ancient Rome during the period of time where there was the active deification of the Roman Emperor. All of its people were mercantile and religiously minded. Their focus was on their deities and the farming and trade necessary to support their Alessian faith. They all had a respect for magic, but that was not their cultural focus in the slightest. Again, the Battlemages were a social class; religion supported by infrastructure (farming and trade) was the heart at the center of Nibenese functioning. How do we then parse out their stereotype? Well.. The merchant class was considered nobility, but I do not see a source which states how much of the population was in this merchant nobility. We do know that in the real world, in England, <5% of the total population is in the nobility. However, England has taken steps to limit the growth of its nobility (e.g. only the eldest inheriting their father's title). We see no evidence that Imperials took those same steps, but in the real world even the highest amount of Nobility to non-Nobility was 10%, so I have used a 10% number. During the aforementioned Roman time period, the Roman priesthood was filled with the Roman elite but the actual priestly college the Arval Brethren had 12 priests at most. There were then other religious groups such as the Augurs (up to 25), Vestals (6 women), etc. As we have no way of knowing how many people made up the actual priesthood however, 5% of the total population seemed apropos because again, I would rather overestimate. The Battlemages are defined as the aristocracy and military elite. Again, we do not know how many soldiers are in the Battlemages. An Aristocracy is usually ~1% or so, however, in the real life US, SOCOM runs their military elite and it currently has an estimation of 69,000 troops out of a total 1,356,929 active duty personnel which is, yet again, 5%. Therefore, I find it appropriate to say that, of the Nibenese population 10% are merchant-nobility, 5% are religious leaders, and 5% are Battlemages.

Conclusion:
From a strictly game stats history POV, Imperials are not magical. There was one game where they were a hybrid, and two games where they were suited to Tanking and Stamina-like DPS. Period. They are also charming.

From a strictly lore POV we can say - roughly - that half the social identity is Colovian and half the social identity is Nibenese. 100% of the Colovian identity is martial. 10% of the Nibenese identity is magical (Battlemages and Priests).

From either POV, it supports the idea that Imperials are overwhelmingly martial, with a touch of magic here and there. However, every race has a "touch" of something here or there. If we took the outliers of ever race, racial passives would be pointless. Lore would be pointless. Bosmer have Spinners, Orcs have Shaman, etc. That does not mean the identity of the race, in a TES game should be shaped around those small examples. Passives are meant to represent the majority identity of a race and not the minority. Imperial should be built, first and foremost, as a martial race. It's focus, first and foremost, should be as a Tank or Stamina DPS and a good one for both. These are Imperials!

However, again, there was some missed reading comprehension somewhere in my other post to which the previous poster referred, because at the bottom I also said if it's really that important, Imperials could reasonably be altered as so:

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee or Staff Skill Line by 10%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 1000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon or Staff Damage by 258, based on your highest maximum resource.
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you restore 650 Health and either Stamina or Magicka based on your highest maximum resource. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

By your argument, the ONLY race that are majority magic users are Altmer...because guess what? In ALL fantasy, Elder Scrolls and otherwise...the VAST MAJORITY of the population has no magical skill whatsoever and are farmers supporting a minority aristocracy. You make all these arguments to keep magicka away from imperials while ignoring the fact that Kajiit of all races now are far better mages...talk about a race with a VERY LOW minority of magic users. No one is asking that Imperials be the BIS magic users...just that they be general useful in all roles....as supported by previous elder scrolls games....you even list the magicka bonuses in Skyrim, and yet you seem to think that Morrowind and Oblivion(which copied most of morrowind buffs, so should be discounted entirely from lack of any originality whatsoever) together outweigh the nod from Skyrim. If anything, Skyrim has more weight than either of those two games...it had a lot more effort put into it.

P.S. I am fine with Kajiit now being viable mages btw, was just pointing out it makes no sense that Imperials can't be

I would be in favor of moving imperial to a tri-stat hybrid race.

The bottom line is if imperials have no damage racials or recovery racials they will be useless as a dps, and they are currently pretty useless as a healer too. Red diamond is currently too weak to be considered a sustain racial when compared to other races like bosmer, redguard, or breton.

How about...

1) Rp xp/ gold

2) 2000 health, 5% mitigation while blocking.

3) 1500 magicka, 1500 stamina

4) After blocking an attack, restore 600 health, 2 second cooldown. After casting a weapon ability, gain 150 spell and weapon damage for 8 seconds, and restore 500 magicka or stamina depending on the weapon type, 6 second cooldown.

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Vertilvius wrote: »

You Suck Zos!

Your astoundingly thorough analysis of the facts which are no doubt the result of a deep contemplation on the many factors involved have led me to go into accordance with your detailed findings.


yours truly,

Abnur Tharn

Yea this was more of a troll post bc I actually started one when they first changed the racial passives and put out a detailed explanation of why I though they where bad and Zos goes and makes them worse. So this is all they get lol.