Not trying to be snarky here @Zyk. But it's actually the second time they've changed racials in 5 years

At least they are giving us more free tokens and a sale on them too. Kind of a half-way gesture. I would have liked to seen the option for all account toons to change if needed/wanted. I knew from the start I wanted any race/faction etc. when the game came out. Idk how that's going to help others that don't have it .=/

Seems like OP is new to ESO, racials are not changing after 5 years but last time was changed around 1.5-2 years back.

Seraphayel wrote: »

No racial identity changes. We could argue that the Bosmer changes regarding stealth are a change in racial identity but besides that no race loses their former identity or top position. All of the former top Magicka/Stamina races are still so after the changes.

All the fuzz about absolutely nothing. Your beloved Altmer still will be one of the top Magicka DPS.

Bosmer, known for stealth, are losing stealth bonuses. Dunmer, known for their affinity for Destruction Magic are losing elemental damage and top dps spot. Altmer, known for their supremacy in Magic are gaining stamina regen and being outperformed by Khajiit and Breton. Breton, known for their resistance, have no more resistance to magic than Nords do. Argonians are losing their passives that protect them from the dangers in their own home. There is no serious, objective way to state that these races are losing key parts of their identities that have existed for years in ESO and longer in ESO lore.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

No racial identity changes. We could argue that the Bosmer changes regarding stealth are a change in racial identity but besides that no race loses their former identity or top position. All of the former top Magicka/Stamina races are still so after the changes.

All the fuzz about absolutely nothing. Your beloved Altmer still will be one of the top Magicka DPS.

Bosmer, known for stealth, are losing stealth bonuses. Dunmer, known for their affinity for Destruction Magic are losing elemental damage and top dps spot. Altmer, known for their supremacy in Magic are gaining stamina regen and being outperformed by Khajiit and Breton. Breton, known for their resistance, have no more resistance to magic than Nords do. Argonians are losing their passives that protect them from the dangers in their own home. There is no serious, objective way to state that these races are losing key parts of their identities that have existed for years in ESO and longer in ESO lore.

They are losing fluff descriptions of their racials and get a more generalized replacement for them.

Bosmer is the only race that might be counted due to the removal of the stealth bonus.

Dunmer and Altmer still have their "supremacy" in magic but it's been transformed into spell damage. So they lose absolutely nothing in that regard, at least not from the "racial identity perspective". Why shouldn't Altmer not have Stamina regen? Is there any lore implication for that? No. And both are outperformed in special occasions, if at all by Khajiit. Khajiit are only performing better under certain circumstances, the raw damage output is still the highest for Altmer and Breton and Dunmer (Bretons are formidable casters so it's totally fine that they are on par with Altmer). Khajiit have overall a lower raw output for Magicka builds and only parse better when crit comes into play. Altmer don't have this problem.

Nords are known for their sturdiness as well, that's nothing special to Bretons.

Argonians are losing what? They are still immune to diseases, the removal of poison resistance is fine, this happened already in Skyrim were they lost their poison immunity altogether.

So much drama about nothing. Racial identities are still intact and for most parts exactly the same. Some things just have been generalized (which was necessary and long overdue) or were brought down to reasonable levels. Some races even were buffed. ZOS did a good job with almost all changes in that regard. Races are closer together now and still keep their identity.

The Nerfs to Altmer and Dunmer have had negative impacts to their Mag DPS performance. Zos themselves admitted this when they scaled some the initial changes back. The change to Altmer are simply mind boggling and will heavily impact their performance. Dunmer have the unique aptitude for Destruction Magic (Fire, etc) and in ESO it was the feature that made them a competitive choice vs Altmer for Mag DPS. Replacing it with spell damage is simply boring and does not compensate. Altmer in lore and gameplay have always been the top Spellcasters and with the proposed changes they are under performing in comparison to Khajiit and Breton.

Bretons are humans with Elven ancestry and their Magic is strong by human standards although their natural resistance to Magic is second to none and should continue to be reflected in gamplay as it has in previous games. No races have equivalents to the Altmer Psijic Order or Dunmer Telvanni, THE most powerful Mages in Tamriel. Replacing their sustain in Magicka with stam will only exacerbate this issue. Elves deep connection to Magical forces has always been an essential part of their lore, history, culture, religions and in every ES game gameplay and mechanics. Changing that now in ESO after years of established lore and gameplay and even in ESO specific lore and gameplay, especially when the changes don't achieve balance and are not fun for players is completely thoughtless and unceremonious on ZOS's part.

Changing racial bonus’ makes sense to me, too many races were unused.

The problem they’re having is they’re making the races too similar. They should make races either magicka power or regen, stam power or regen, hybrid, niche or whatever. If they’re all just stats people will complain and cry about 100 difference in magicka.

Better to be like the difference between bretons and altmer. Both magicka but one has better sustain and one power. Then it’s an option about which you prefer. What they shouldn’t do is add junk bonus’ (like the new altmer that gives stam), have every bonus a good thing and about you choosing play style.

Everyone will adapt. Very few will actually quit for good. ZOS knows this. This isn't the first time racial passive have been changed, nor is it the first time there has been a major stat calculation adjustment. People rallied against the changes then, yet the game is still going strong.

jhall03 wrote: »

Everyone will adapt. Very few will actually quit for good. ZOS knows this. This isn't the first time racial passive have been changed, nor is it the first time there has been a major stat calculation adjustment. People rallied against the changes then, yet the game is still going strong.

It would be the first time they've nerfed the lore's strongest Magicka race to the very bottom of Magicka DPS race rankings. That's a huuuge chunk of the playerbase getting crapped on.

JinMori wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I think the move to flat bonuses over % is to relieve some of the server stress, so in that case I’m all for it. As with the first round of changes I assume this one will also show that classes are within a very small percentage of each other. Some adjustments to builds will be made, you’ll have three race changes to use, and life will go on.

If your servers can't even handle % changes, then we have a really big problem on our hands.

And i don;t think that they are more intensive for the server to process anyway, but honestly this should be the last thing that worries you, the first things, should be, zos servers cannot even handle % modifiers, if that were the case.

CPUs add and subtract faster than multiply and divide. Times many stats on hundreds of players per instance and multiple instances per server. Their coding might be so horrible that the most modern hardware cannot handle the load adequately. I still blame the microcode patches for spectre and meltdown vulnerabilities.

It is a problem.

For how long are you guys gonna try to protect your precious company?

Look, if your server is so bad that it cannot handle multiply and divide, then THAT IS THE PROBLEM, not cp.

Not only the servers, more the players. Meta for Kerbal space program is way easier to grasp than ESO for me as its just rocket science who is intuitive and easy to calculate.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

This whole thing is a cash grab. They took the top-2 magicka DPS races and nerfed them so they aren't useful anymore, knowing full well that 95% of players use them. Now they're going to be swimming in money from race change tokens and Adventurer Pack sales. They can *** right off with this. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

If this goes live, they'll be losing my sub and any future business.

I seriously think that business-oriented people have a psychological disorder that inhibits ethical reasoning.

I disagree with you. It isn't business oriented people, it is just people. Everyone is in business unless you're a lazy bum and even then people are voting for their free rides when they can get them. If you have a job you're in business. Workers don't do their job rightly, steal from their company, and brag about it to their friends. Bosses take advantage of their workers and lie to their bosses. CEO's and others find ways to screw over their customers in deceitful ways. Its from top to bottom and until people start to realize that the fix is in the self the society is going to continue its nosedive into the pavement. The problem is a matter of honor and goodness. The culture gets more and more filled with garbage every year and people revel in it much less tolerate it.

There is a reason that I refuse to ever buy into another MMO. ESO is the last one for me. The industry has lost all respect at this point and I'm not entirely sure it will ever recover. Do I agree that making structural changes and expecting players to pay to repair the 'fix' is right? Not at all. This sort of greedy and obvious behavior makes the Casino or Drug business look respectable. The question I have for you is are you really surprised?

I'll just say this though. There are still good people out there leading businesses, working in businesses and even unemployed. You do the best you can where you're at. Do what I plan to do: Play with bad racials if that's how its going to be. I can understand renaming a character but race changing in and of itself feels much too bizarre to me. I would much rather get more character slots and just make a new character (I enjoy leveling alts up in Kyne or BG). I do believe the general systems change they're looking at for racials is a good start. The trajectory is good and in my personal view is what they should have done back at Tamriel One. Do I agree with all the adjustments on races though? Absolutely not. What were the odds we'd all be perfectly happy anyway?

I concur.

"Business-oriented" is a subjective term in business-related context. For instance, there is short-term "business-oriented", which refers to maximizing sales for profit, and there is long-term "business-oriented", which refers to maximizing customer loyalty for a sustainable business. It's similar to the way we players prefer high-burst damage, sustained DPS and resource returns, or a balance of both.

Right now, the changes ZOS made towards race change can be seen as a short-term "business-oriented" strategy. By drastically altering the Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit racial aspects (Away from their universally constructed lore based from previous games, at that), they promote the sales of racial tokens towards customers who seek the best performance out of their characters (Which is quite a lot of the PVP and end-game PVE playerbase).

This is a very dangerous move that can affect the customer loyalty aspect of the business. An MMO is a long-term project after all, from its reliance on subscriptions and micro-transactions to ensure its sustainability as a long-term business. After all, to have balance between sales and customer loyalty, changing one aspect of its business model would definitely affect the other. Just like how we players have to consider between more Spell Damage and crit to defeat an opponent as efficiently as possible, or more Magicka recovery to remain in the fight for as long as possible.

It is one thing to bring in new aspects that offer more diversity in playstyle for a race. However, it is another to be tampering too much with a tried-and-true formula that defines the uniqueness of a race. I believe that when a player picks up any volume of The Elder Scrolls games, he would first consider the cliché of a race first, such as Altmer as experts on Destruction (Magicka DPS) or Bosmer as expert trackers and rangers (stealth, Stamina gankers), before anything else with regards to the actual playstyle.

Giving stamina regen passive to the universally established experts of Destruction, at the cost of better performance towards magic, removing stealth bonus towards the universally-established experts of the forest, hiding and marksmanship, and giving Magicka bonus to a race that is universally-established as stealthy predators and acrobats... All for the sake of "making things new".

Wouldn't you at least suspect something feels off as a customer, and as a general The Elder Scrolls player?

Vapirko wrote: »

I think the move to flat bonuses over % is to relieve some of the server stress, so in that case I’m all for it. As with the first round of changes I assume this one will also show that classes are within a very small percentage of each other. Some adjustments to builds will be made, you’ll have three race changes to use, and life will go on.

If you think computing a flat base value rather than a percentage is going to make any difference to a CPU you are sadly mistaken.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Time change, game change this happened across MMORPG.

Is ESO your first MMORPG?

#StopWheening all the time

Is it yours? Players have been protesting contentious decisions by admins since text based muds. Raph Koster and others have for years discussed the need of players/avatar rights in virtual worlds.

Changing content players have already paid for is one of the topics commonly discussed. It is very relevant in this case because ZOS stands to profit from retroactively changing player characters for reasons that are not necessitated by gameplay issues.

Seems like Learn 2 Play issue.

I have spent more time than you in ESO, starter from PS4 (1035CP) went to PC NA (935 CP) and now playing in EU (700CP)

I can understand MMORPG changes overtime and not crying for blah blah

This actually made me laugh for reasons I cannot explain without getting a forum ban


... and no, it was not because I was in agreement with you

Dr.NRG wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Go back to the drawing board. Revise the current system with flat health/mag/stam values. Keep the flavor like the % elemental/melee damage bonuses. Maintain existing racial identities.

Changing the racial identity of characters players have grown attached to over the years is just wrong. *NO ONE* chose Altmer for Stamina sustain. I can't understand what motivated you to use a hatchet when a scalpel was required.

Changing racial identities after 5 years is not wrong but about time! I am tired playing the same races for each build all the time it is overdue that we have some more options. Yes, zos will make a bit money on that but for that we can get new content and options. I wish they would change more thing like this to keep the game interesting.
Also consider how much time you spend in this game over the past 5 years and how much work they put in to keep the game alive. So is it wrong that they make some money with stuff like that? No its not and they are even give us 3 tokens.
If you have more than 3 race changes myabe you should just not go to the bar for a weekend or save on what ever other activities you do besides playing this game.
ESO is entertaining us so many ours each day and entertainments usually comes at a cost. Playing ESO is a quite cheap form of that unless you sepnd a ton on crates and cosmetics.
Long story short, be happy Zos does change stuff (even if some changes are bad).

Ps. Unless you need to be in the top 1% in pve you don’t necessarily need to race range and 3 tokens should be enough for you. I just changed some of my magicka toons to stam without race changing and guess what Im still kickin az 1vxing. You can build around any race and once you are very good on a character you can then consider race changing it or leave it be.
Another way to get around this is you caould build around your race intstead but I guess roo many people lack of creativity and dont wanna put in any effort...

Seraphayel wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

jhall03 wrote: »

Everyone will adapt. Very few will actually quit for good. ZOS knows this. This isn't the first time racial passive have been changed, nor is it the first time there has been a major stat calculation adjustment. People rallied against the changes then, yet the game is still going strong.

It would be the first time they've nerfed the lore's strongest Magicka race to the very bottom of Magicka DPS race rankings. That's a huuuge chunk of the playerbase getting crapped on.

Prove the "very bottom parsing" or it did not happen. Easy as that. Altmer was parsing as second or third best Magicka race depending on class before they reworked that one passive. I doubt much changed now. And even if they are parsing as Nr. 4 of 4 it doesn't matter because the difference to place 3, 2 and 1 is very small. Going from the undisputed Nr. 1 choice for Magicka for 5 years to a slightly lower position is anything but problematic.

Dunmer was the undisputed choice for magicka DPS for most of those 5 years.

You've just exposed your lack of knowledge of this game.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

jhall03 wrote: »

Everyone will adapt. Very few will actually quit for good. ZOS knows this. This isn't the first time racial passive have been changed, nor is it the first time there has been a major stat calculation adjustment. People rallied against the changes then, yet the game is still going strong.

It would be the first time they've nerfed the lore's strongest Magicka race to the very bottom of Magicka DPS race rankings. That's a huuuge chunk of the playerbase getting crapped on.

Prove the "very bottom parsing" or it did not happen. Easy as that. Altmer was parsing as second or third best Magicka race depending on class before they reworked that one passive. I doubt much changed now. And even if they are parsing as Nr. 4 of 4 it doesn't matter because the difference to place 3, 2 and 1 is very small. Going from the undisputed Nr. 1 choice for Magicka for 5 years to a slightly lower position is anything but problematic.

Dunmer was the undisputed choice for magicka DPS for most of those 5 years.

You've just exposed your lack of knowledge of this game.

Ah sure! That's why all min-maxers that play Altmer are complaining now. Because they already play Dunmer and are just complaining for the sake of complaining and to help out their Mer brothers.

/smh

This threads are ai hysterical, it's mindboggling.

Oh by the way...

Races with 2000 or similar boost to stamina/magicka will see a comparatively significant boost to their damage in that particular aspect. The multiplicative nature of the resource boost will magnify the effect of these boost and will have effectively increase the DPS output of the races. This damage increase will boost the damage of builds having higher spell/weapon damage to compliment the increased resource boost more. All races will benefit from this, with Orc, Altmer and Dunmer benefiting the most, due to their innately higher spell/weapon damage and Argonian, Khajiit benefiting the least, as they don't have any stat boost of that magnitude.

Warhorn Stat boost will give a minor advantage to races with 2000 or similar boost to stamina/magicka, due to the same reason as above. This in return, means all races, except Argonian will benefit from Warhorn in fairly equal measure. Most races get a high boost of their primary damage stat during Warhorn, while Khajiit will get a relatively lesser boost but make up for it with their higher damage boost during the Initial 9.5 secs of Major Force.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457800/breakdown-of-change-in-cp-scaling-and-flattening-of-resources-stats-and-effects-on-races-foods-etc#latest

So don't worry, Feline Overlords won't be better Mages than Altmer / Dunmer. The changes to CP benefit Khajiit and Argonians the least of all races.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh by the way...

Races with 2000 or similar boost to stamina/magicka will see a comparatively significant boost to their damage in that particular aspect. The multiplicative nature of the resource boost will magnify the effect of these boost and will have effectively increase the DPS output of the races. This damage increase will boost the damage of builds having higher spell/weapon damage to compliment the increased resource boost more. All races will benefit from this, with Orc, Altmer and Dunmer benefiting the most, due to their innately higher spell/weapon damage and Argonian, Khajiit benefiting the least, as they don't have any stat boost of that magnitude.

Warhorn Stat boost will give a minor advantage to races with 2000 or similar boost to stamina/magicka, due to the same reason as above. This in return, means all races, except Argonian will benefit from Warhorn in fairly equal measure. Most races get a high boost of their primary damage stat during Warhorn, while Khajiit will get a relatively lesser boost but make up for it with their higher damage boost during the Initial 9.5 secs of Major Force.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457800/breakdown-of-change-in-cp-scaling-and-flattening-of-resources-stats-and-effects-on-races-foods-etc#latest

So don't worry, Feline Overlords won't be better Mages than Altmer / Dunmer. The changes to CP benefit Khajiit and Argonians the least of all races.

The Shadow mundus buffs are arguably even more impactful, and will be especially powerful on a Khajiit.