I like it for the most part.

Only thing I would change is the potion cooldown, just for the sake of not adding more in combat calculations to the game, I'd drop it down to 3200 or something instead. (If it helped, I'm sure guys that work in the design team would know if it would make a difference, if not, then the reduction/cool down thing isn't bad).

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Seems... slightly over-tuned compared to other racials.

In which role ? Or just as a whole in summed value ?

xaraan wrote: »

I like it for the most part.
Only thing I would change is the potion cooldown, just for the sake of not adding more in combat calculations to the game, I'd drop it down to 3200 or something instead. (If it helped, I'm sure guys that work in the design team would know if it would make a difference, if not, then the reduction/cool down thing isn't bad).

I added it so ZOS stop fearing that combined with lowered potion cooldown it become too OP.
Potion defaultly have 45s cooldown, but it can be downed to 21s.
The racial need to be balanced around the 45s cooldown instead of the 21s cooldown in my opinion.
Would make the racial more than twice as much effective theoretically (but you lose other stats).
With such safety, it would allow ZOS to improve those glyph for everyone and no longer fear that Argonian will skyrocket in first place on every role.

Skander wrote: »

LoL no, are you out of your mind?

Can you expand on why ?

I like these suggestions a lot, and it's basically what I think would be the ideal outcome for this race with this new design philosophy ZOS seems to have going forward. (at least, maybe with some tweaking. Lowering the magicka and stamina boosts to 750 or 850 would seem a bit more fair to me.)

If Argonian is going to get 1k of each base stat it does not need to get a damage bonus. If a damage bonus were to go into place I'd say take away the max health, drop magicka and stamina to 750 or so each, then allow a damage bonus, but 120 is too much.

I don't think Argonians need their identity changed. They have always been a race you go to when you wanted to have resource management. Also a go-to race for Tanking/Healing. This is fine. Their "power" looks fine in comparison to the other races in the last PTS.

If ZOS really wanted to nerf potion reduction glyphs, they can either remove the glyph altogether, or put a 45s CD on Resourcefull. I don't think it's necessary, if people are running infused pot cd they are sacrifying a lot of damage, you need a good trade off to justify that.

I let the +1000 Max Health because it was there in the first place.
Removing it would be canon with previous games where Argonian were not sturdier than average.
But reducing the values is good too.

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

If ZOS really wanted to nerf potion reduction glyphs, they can either remove the glyph altogether, or put a 45s CD on Resourcefull. I don't think it's necessary, if people are running infused pot cd they are sacrifying a lot of damage, you need a good trade off to justify that.

I specifically not worded it as a cooldown like Altmer passive did, because you can't spam potion like you spam abilities. Adding a limit of "can only occur once every 45s" would make lowering potion cooldown useless on Argonian unless you reach 22-23s as otherwise you couldn't trigger the racial every 45-46s.
And going after that much reduction makes you chug potions faster than Nords chugs beer.

By making the effect reduced if you consume a potion less than 45s after the previous one, it allows more flexibility if you want to use potion cooldown reduction.

A lot of people consider that the potion cooldown reduction is not worth compared to the other bonuses available. By preventing Resourceful from making Argonian #1 with potion cooldown reduction, ZOS will be able to balance both Resourceful and potion cooldown reduction freely as they wouldn't synergize anymore.

So you want Argonians to be stronger than they currently are on live... Good luck with that.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

So you want Argonians to be stronger than they currently are on live... Good luck with that.

Even with these suggestions, this would be impossible to achieve since we've lost 1k Resource return each on the potion passive, poison resistance/status immunity, 5% healing received and 1% healing done, which is to say nothing of all the other races that received buffs. Can you honestly say that Dunmer, with 850 extra magic+stamina and 138 unconditional extra Weapon/Spell damage is somehow going to fall behind Argonian in any significant way in terms of doing more damage just because of their 160 regen? Dunmer already have stronger heals than Argonian before they increased their max magic and while Argonians received 2% extra healing done, that's hardly as powerful as when we had 5% Healing Received+Done.

At this point in time, Argonian is arguably the weakest race in the game since its sustain isn't as good as Bretons, its Tank skills are behind Nord, its magic damage is even lower than both Altmer and Dunmer, and it has no stamina proficiency so it's out of that race by default. The argument that Argonian will somehow be OP if given a small damage buff, despite all this, is absolutely ludicrous.

Kurat wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

So you want Argonians to be stronger than they currently are on live... Good luck with that.

At this point in time, Argonian is arguably the weakest race in the game since it's sustain isn't as good as Bretons, it's Tank skills are behind Nord, it's magic damage is even lower than both Altmer and Dunmer, and it has no stamina proficiency so it's out of that race by default. The argument that Argonian will somehow be OP if given a small damage buff, despite all this, is absolutely ludicrous.

Excactly this.

People who say Argonians are OP, are just whiny Pvp kids who got owned by Argonian. Pve also exists and as it is atm, there are better options for all roles than Argonian.

Yup, I do agree that both sides of the game need to be looked at, and Argonians in PvE are definitely inferior (I mean, we could make an Argonian racial joke about how this is proper, but you knoooow). I think that taking away healing received, removing a bit of healing done, and not giving Argonians too many stats, but giving them some damage and allowing them to have both stamina and magicka stats is a really good path to go in to reducing what causes them to be issues in PvP, but also opens the doors to allow them to be stronger in PvE.

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Seems... slightly over-tuned compared to other racials.

Not just slightly but a All in one package. U so not need other races at all then.

Dude potion reduction is a legit combo that’s bs to say otherwise IMO... If I sacrifice 750 unbuffed weapon and spell and 1,000 to 2,000 unbuffed max I should be able to use this combo.

That seems very fair, lore-appropriate and would allow them to play as something else than healers. I'm all for it.

Current problem with Argonians is that.. well... if the PTS 4.3.2 changes go live, Argonians will be ok-ish for tank role and ok-ish for healer role. And that is pretty much it. Also, it is worth noting that they will no longer be BIS for tanking role. Their healer role potential will go slightly down too due to buffs to other races: With that said, Argonians will still have at least some potential in those roles... but the same can not be said about DPS role. Currently on PTS (just like on live server) it is a worst possible race for Damage Dealer role.

I do believe that at this point, Argonians should basically be "Jack of all trades, master of none" kind of race. So adding some small bonus to weapon / spell dmg actually makes sense and could potentially enable Argonians as a DPS role just enough so they will bo ok-sih at that role.
So in the end, Argonians will be well balanced race without exceeding at any particular role, flexible enough that they will be able to pick any role, but they will never be "BIS" or even close to BIS for any of them. And if fact, it will be even lore accurate as in lore, Argonans are said to be able to "adapt" easily. And this is what Argonian passives should reflect.

Some suggestions:

Resourceful
+750 Max Magicka
+750 Max Stamina
Restore 4000 Health, Stamina, and Magicka after drinking a potion. This effect is reduced if you consume potions less than 45 seconds apart.

I actually agree with that as you will have a choice, whenever you want to build Magicka or Stamina based character. And of course, adding 1000 mag & 1000 stam will be too much so those values should be lower.
As for the buff in PTS 4.3.2 done to potion passive i think it was justified, or should I said... Mathematically justified:
Argonian Resistance
+1000 Max Health
+ 770 Poison Resistance
+2310 + 1540 Disease Resistance
Immunity to the Diseased status effect.

Since this passive's effects (poison & Disease Resistance & immunity) are shared between Argonian & Wood Elf (on live server), as a result of balancing both races suffered. Adding a small bonus to Poison Resistance (but without poison immunity) could be potentially helpful lore wise. The buff provided by this would be insignificant and will be rather a racial "flavour" than an actual buff. The Disease Resistance was reduced so overall power level remains the same. Of course Wood Elf should also get similar small Disease Resistance bonus (but without disease immunity).

Life Mender (Quick to Mend)
+4% (to +6%) Healing Done
Gain 70 (to + 100) spell damage or weapon damage, depending on which of your maximum resources is higher - Max Magicka or Max Stamina.

I would just make a weapon / spell dmg slightly lower and make it so only one of this bonuses is active, depending on what your stats are higher. This will make this passive less powerful (not to break the overall power that each race provides) and at the same time more efficient as only one bonus will be active. So if you have higher max magicka, you will get spell dmg bonus, and if you have higher max stamina you get weapon dmg bonus.