Spell recharge

grannas211 · February 2019

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Damage

Derra · February 2019

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

pieratsos · February 2019

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

So you don't get any mag sustain at all?

bardx86 · February 2019

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

The problem tho Derra is I'm going to have to replace that 9% regen loss somehow which most likely is adding another regen glyph to my jewelry which is going to lower my damage even more. Breton might be a better starting point for a build at thins point.

ToRelax · February 2019

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

The problem tho Derra is I'm going to have to replace that 9% regen loss somehow which most likely is adding another regen glyph to my jewelry which is going to lower my damage even more. Breton might be a better starting point for a build at thins point.

One regen glyph provides a lot more than a 9% regen buff, and the damage difference between Breton and Altmer in identical setups is larger than what a spell damage glyph provides.

Galarthor · February 2019

Why the hell are we still playing around with stamina buffs on a f*cking High Elf?

High Elfes are all about magic.

You want Bretons to be sustain/tanky and Altmers to be the DPS magic races. Great. Replace some regen/tankiness of the Breton with some Spell Damage. Problem solved. No reason to come up with some weird sh*t like adding stamina attributes to a f*cking magic-based race!

Sorry for the language but that much BS deserves nothing better!

PS: Don't get me wrong. As a PvP player it doesn't really have a huge impact on me as Derra pointed out. But from both a PvE and lore prespective this is just BS, especially since there are good alternatives.

SugaComa · February 2019

Sheuib wrote: »

My magicka templar dies in PVP because I ran out of stam and can't CC break more than any other reason of death. So this is obviously going to be a good change for me. And, don't say I just need a higher stam pool because I am already running over 18k stam on a magicka character. I am also thinking this is going to be better than just straight stam regen if it works while blocking.

Plus an additional 5% damage reduction when I use my jabs on top of minor protection for using jabs. That is going to rock. I have a feeling that people are going to be complaining about heavy armor altmer magicka templars in PVP after this goes live.

Heavy armor passive, channeled focus, and elemental drain I don't think that magicka regen is going to be a problem. I already run just a little over 1300 magicka regen and don't have any problems.

You'll still die ... Cos the reality of how it will perform compared to how we imagine it will perform are two very different ends of the spectrum

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Higher stamina pool VS conditional stamina restore is a matter of personal prefference.
Magicka difference is negligible.
Spell damage is the same.

So you are left with 5% damage reduction while casting VS 2310 flame resistance and immunity to burning effect.

Everyone can make his opinion.

I'm actually quite interested to hear peoples' opinions on this.

My main is an Altmer melee MagBlade that I've been steering toward a dueling build. I'm running both Channeled Acceleration and Introspection on my back bar. Would the Stamina return plus 5% damage reduction from Spell Recharge (combined with Major Protection from the Psijic's Deliberation passive) be a better option in 1v1 than the Dunmer's Flame Resist passive?

ToRelax · February 2019

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Higher stamina pool VS conditional stamina restore is a matter of personal prefference.
Magicka difference is negligible.
Spell damage is the same.

So you are left with 5% damage reduction while casting VS 2310 flame resistance and immunity to burning effect.

Everyone can make his opinion.

I'm actually quite interested to hear peoples' opinions on this.

My main is an Altmer melee MagBlade that I've been steering toward a dueling build. I'm running both Channeled Acceleration and Introspection on my back bar. Would the Stamina return plus 5% damage reduction from Spell Recharge (combined with Major Protection from the Psijic's Deliberation passive) be a better option in 1v1 than the Dunmer's Flame Resist passive?

Unless you are fighting only magicka DKs, definitely.

ezio45 · February 2019

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

Ok so if you choose highelf for a mag toon your still going to need to run shackle breaker, but if you choose darkelf you can drop shackle breaker entirely.

Basically the Stam being straight in your Stam pool from the start of the fight gives you more gear options and doesn't make you have to wait for that Regen which you may or may not be in that fight long enough to be useful. So darkelf is a way better option

ToRelax · February 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

Ok so if you choose highelf for a mag toon your still going to need to run shackle breaker, but if you choose darkelf you can drop shackle breaker entirely.

Basically the Stam being straight in your Stam pool from the start of the fight gives you more gear options and doesn't make you have to wait for that Regen which you may or may not be in that fight long enough to be useful. So darkelf is a way better option

If one did run shackle breaker, which is very much not needed in any way, one would hopefully do so because one is looking to bolster both max stamina and stamina regen. Which means that not only are you valuing shackle breaker more than it's worth, you don't even understand why it is as good as it actually is.

ezio45 · February 2019

ToRelax wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

Ok so if you choose highelf for a mag toon your still going to need to run shackle breaker, but if you choose darkelf you can drop shackle breaker entirely.

Basically the Stam being straight in your Stam pool from the start of the fight gives you more gear options and doesn't make you have to wait for that Regen which you may or may not be in that fight long enough to be useful. So darkelf is a way better option

If one did run shackle breaker, which is very much not needed in any way, one would hopefully do so because one is looking to bolster both max stamina and stamina regen. Which means that not only are you valuing shackle breaker more than it's worth, you don't even understand why it is as good as it actually is.

If your on a mag toon shackle is 100% needed and no, Regen for Stam is useless.

1.8k Stam is much better than Stam regen in a fight

ToRelax · February 2019

I give up.

Galarthor · February 2019

No offense, but stam regen is far more important than max stamina, once you got enough to break-free and dodge in a row. You can only use the additional max stamina once in a fight!

But still, giving Altmers stam regen is gimping them from a PvE persective and makes zero sense from a lore perspective. And neither is it needed to give Altmers a unique combination of race passives. Just replace (some of) the regen of Bretons with Spell damage and we are good to go. Bretons will have to use more spell damage on gear while Altmers will have to use more regen on their gear to compensate. Problem solved ...

bardx86 · February 2019

ToRelax wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

The problem tho Derra is I'm going to have to replace that 9% regen loss somehow which most likely is adding another regen glyph to my jewelry which is going to lower my damage even more. Breton might be a better starting point for a build at thins point.

One regen glyph provides a lot more than a 9% regen buff, and the damage difference between Breton and Altmer in identical setups is larger than what a spell damage glyph provides.

Agreed, however breton looks better to me at this point. Seems a lot more flexible in a build plus that added resist. Hell dunmer looks better as well. In no-cp BG'S sustain is king imo. Im not ruling out altmer as testing will be needed but it doesn't look good to me at thins point.

Epicasballs · February 2019

As a player who loves playing mag in all content I read the change and was very excited from a pve perspective. I play dark elf now, a race with no sustain passive, on all my mag toons. After grinding VET Black Rose Prison a bunch on my beloved mag toons I saw this high elf passive and did a fist pump. Newer content is hell on mag toons stam bars. This passive would be awesome in some the toughest content this game has to offer. If you can play a dark elf now and not need a sustain passive moving to high elf for an excellent utility passive is just a win. I don't understand the outrage.

Mathiashs · February 2019

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Most magicka dps playes a critt based class -.- templar or nightblade

TheInfernalRage · February 2019

Epicasballs wrote: »

As a player who loves playing mag in all content I read the change and was very excited from a pve perspective. I play dark elf now, a race with no sustain passive, on all my mag toons. After grinding VET Black Rose Prison a bunch on my beloved mag toons I saw this high elf passive and did a fist pump. Newer content is hell on mag toons stam bars. This passive would be awesome in some the toughest content this game has to offer. If you can play a dark elf now and not need a sustain passive moving to high elf for an excellent utility passive is just a win. I don't understand the outrage.

The outrage comes from the meta folks who got their altar destroyed.

Galarthor · February 2019

Epicasballs wrote: »

As a player who loves playing mag in all content I read the change and was very excited from a pve perspective. I play dark elf now, a race with no sustain passive, on all my mag toons. After grinding VET Black Rose Prison a bunch on my beloved mag toons I saw this high elf passive and did a fist pump. Newer content is hell on mag toons stam bars. This passive would be awesome in some the toughest content this game has to offer. If you can play a dark elf now and not need a sustain passive moving to high elf for an excellent utility passive is just a win. I don't understand the outrage.

The problem is, that you don't need it everywhere as a magicka build. It's not bad for PvP or dungeons that require you to block/dodge frequently. However, in all other content it is simply a dead passive for magicka builds. And I think races should be designed in a way that their passives are always useful and that content-specific adjustments should be made through the gear - especially if it is an race that is the arch-type of a magicka or stamina race, i.e. has talents only in 1 of the 2 fields (such as High Elfs for magicka and Reguards for stamina).

If any of the 2 arch-type magicka races should have a stamina component in its passives it is Bretons due to their mixed heritage. That would be at least somewhat lore-friendly. High Elfs have a greater magic-affinity than Bretons.

pieratsos · February 2019

ToRelax wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

The problem tho Derra is I'm going to have to replace that 9% regen loss somehow which most likely is adding another regen glyph to my jewelry which is going to lower my damage even more. Breton might be a better starting point for a build at thins point.

One regen glyph provides a lot more than a 9% regen buff, and the damage difference between Breton and Altmer in identical setups is larger than what a spell damage glyph provides.

Except the difference between sustain on a Breton and high elf isn't just one regen glyph. It's a lot more meaning you can starting dropping sustain elsewhere in ur build and get more dmg. Meaning it could be a better starting point to make a build that doesn't shoehorn you Into running sustain sets, abilities etc.

John_Falstaff · February 2019

pieratsos wrote: »

Except the difference between sustain on a Breton and high elf isn't just one regen glyph. It's a lot more meaning you can starting dropping sustain elsewhere in ur build and get more dmg. Meaning it could be a better starting point to make a build that doesn't shoehorn you Into running sustain sets, abilities etc.

Altmer is also 258 base spell damage ahead of breton, it's more than enough to trade in for sustain in case of necessity. If altmer ops to run absorb glyph, they get same 400 magicka/s return (making up for breton's cost reduction), and in the end, we have breton's 452 SD from berserker versus altmer's 258 SD + damage from absorb (and I do believe that damage from absorb is more than making up for the lacking part of spell damage).

ToRelax · February 2019

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

The problem tho Derra is I'm going to have to replace that 9% regen loss somehow which most likely is adding another regen glyph to my jewelry which is going to lower my damage even more. Breton might be a better starting point for a build at thins point.

One regen glyph provides a lot more than a 9% regen buff, and the damage difference between Breton and Altmer in identical setups is larger than what a spell damage glyph provides.

Except the difference between sustain on a Breton and high elf isn't just one regen glyph. It's a lot more meaning you can starting dropping sustain elsewhere in ur build and get more dmg. Meaning it could be a better starting point to make a build that doesn't shoehorn you Into running sustain sets, abilities etc.

The premise of this discussion was to not need extra sustain on an Altmer sorc currently on live.

The way I see it, Breton now looks better than Altmer on PTS, but is less well tailored to a mag sorcerer's needs. Definitely want to test them both once pts is up again.

@John_Falstaff
It's also a pvp discussion btw

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@ToRelax , I don't think how it doesn't apply to PvP. Spell damage is a currency you can exchange; and sure it affects your build, but same way, you can say that Breton might be shoehorned into running damage sets because they're lacking in damage (and self-healing) department. Besides, there are ups and downs to having sustain through cost reduction - if fights have downtimes, exchanging damage for plain regen may be better than having active way of sustaining but no damage.

pieratsos · February 2019

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Because i only need stam sustain and damage.

The problem tho Derra is I'm going to have to replace that 9% regen loss somehow which most likely is adding another regen glyph to my jewelry which is going to lower my damage even more. Breton might be a better starting point for a build at thins point.

One regen glyph provides a lot more than a 9% regen buff, and the damage difference between Breton and Altmer in identical setups is larger than what a spell damage glyph provides.

Except the difference between sustain on a Breton and high elf isn't just one regen glyph. It's a lot more meaning you can starting dropping sustain elsewhere in ur build and get more dmg. Meaning it could be a better starting point to make a build that doesn't shoehorn you Into running sustain sets, abilities etc.

The premise of this discussion was to not need extra sustain on an Altmer sorc currently on live.

The way I see it, Breton now looks better than Altmer on PTS, but is less well tailored to a mag sorcerer's needs. Definitely want to test them both once pts is up again.

@John_Falstaff
It's also a pvp discussion btw

I understand the premise was to not need extra sustain on altmer meaning Breton extra sustain would be pointless and thus making altmer much stronger since it would sort of take care ur Stam sustain as well. I get that but this whole idea is based on one thing. That you do not have built in mag sustain in ur build already. But you do which is where Breton comes in because they already have a sustain set built in their passives giving you more flexibility.

ToRelax · February 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

ToRelax , I don't think how it doesn't apply to PvP. Spell damage is a currency you can exchange; and sure it affects your build, but same way, you can say that Breton might be shoehorned into running damage sets because they're lacking in damage (and self-healing) department. Besides, there are ups and downs to having sustain through cost reduction - if fights have downtimes, exchanging damage for plain regen may be better than having active way of sustaining but no damage.

In PvP the Altmer's stamina regen and the Breton's spell resistance are far more valuable than in PvE, and which way of sustain works best is highly dependant on playstyle.
In your post you've been discussing weapon glyphs in a way which isn't really applicable in PvP because a) you can't always make use of offensive sustain like absorption glyphs and b) the optimal positioning of glyps for the purpose of damage is different due to the demand for burst damage.

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@ToRelax , yes, that particular setup - with absorb - is mostly for PvE, though I can imagine frontbarring absorb in PvE since it will proc from your attacks like that anyway. Your point was, if we have sustain (as Breton does) then it'll be easy to build up into damage without being restrained to sustain sets and abilities. My point was that, for one, cost reduction based sustain also enforces some playstyle (say, if you have periods of burst and then periods of not using any skills, then value of that sustain would diminish), and for another, being forced into seeking sets for damage is also a restriction. Every build can be said to seek the stat the race is missing.

Sinolai · February 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

Ok, I get your trying to make it more of a dps focused class, kinda sucks for highelf healers but whatever. Problem with spell recharge and really anything that effects non primary resource stats it's it doesn't add utility it just ends up being useless.

Pve, this will never come in handy. It's completely doa there. It's a wasted passive here.

PvP, slightly more useful but really weak still. It's only going to help with cc breaks.

Not saying revert the change but if you're gonna change it make it a good one like casting a class ability increase damage for x seconds, something that reinforces dps or something. Every single time zos has added this kinda of condition to something it has ended up being seen as unhelpful and disliked. We are not fans of things that effect non primary stats. It's like cast times on skills. We just don't like them and they don't fit into eso's combat.

It is not completely useless in PvE. If your Group is bad or play solo against World bosses even a magDD must roll and break free often. In those situations this passive is very handy. In raids (other than vHoF) however, this passive isn't at its best. I think the bigger problem is that removal of Altmer's magicka sustain has made its playstyle too identical with Dunmer and put it behind both Khajiit and Breton when it used to be between the 2.

I hink the current 4.3.2 spell recharge would be fitting passive for Dunmers. (Duality is now their thing, eh? Just nerf the max resources a bit. 1250-1500 would be quite nice?), while Altmer should get something that gives them Magicka sustain to keep them in their comfortable spot between top raw damage and top sustain.

ToRelax · February 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

ToRelax , yes, that particular setup - with absorb - is mostly for PvE, though I can imagine frontbarring absorb in PvE since it will proc from your attacks like that anyway. Your point was, if we have sustain (as Breton does) then it'll be easy to build up into damage without being restrained to sustain sets and abilities. My point was that, for one, cost reduction based sustain also enforces some playstyle (say, if you have periods of burst and then periods of not using any skills, then value of that sustain would diminish), and for another, being forced into seeking sets for damage is also a restriction. Every build can be said to seek the stat the race is missing.

That was actually Pieratsos's point I believe, but I agree with you there. One thing I am interested in is whether blue or purple food now got buffed enough that it is worthwhile to use instead of citrus filet on a Breton. It's where most of my sustain comes from currently on my Dunmer sorc.

Rehdaun · February 2019

Why is passive still called spell recharge? The name implies that we can use it to recharge resources in order to cast more spells? As a wholly magicka race that means Magicka. What the h3ll is this passive recharging resources for? Beast trap? That's the only stamina spell that could be used in an Altmer's rotation.

Mageri · February 2019

Why do nerfs suddenly appeeaaarrr
Every time, balance nears?
Just like me, you long to be...
Aldmeri