Spell recharge

ezio45

Ok, I get your trying to make it more of a dps focused class, kinda sucks for highelf healers but whatever. Problem with spell recharge and really anything that effects non primary resource stats it's it doesn't add utility it just ends up being useless.

Pve, this will never come in handy. It's completely doa there. It's a wasted passive here.

PvP, slightly more useful but really weak still. It's only going to help with cc breaks.

Not saying revert the change but if you're gonna change it make it a good one like casting a class ability increase damage for x seconds, something that reinforces dps or something. Every single time zos has added this kinda of condition to something it has ended up being seen as unhelpful and disliked. We are not fans of things that effect non primary stats. It's like cast times on skills. We just don't like them and they don't fit into eso's combat.

ezio45

Also why would you ever pick highelf over dark elf now? They are the same except darkelf offers the much better higher off resource which is a lot better off a passive.

Before it was a trade off, you needed to up darkelf resource gains, which you did. It is now a good trade off for the resource recov that highelf had. Now however ya just switched highelf for darkelf and now highelf the loser. This isn't an improvement nits just switching around which race is a sub par option

DarkPicture

As magsorc Im using shacklebreaker in pvp so problem with stamina i dont have. So this passiv is much more useless

ezio45

Browart wrote: »

As magsorc Im using shacklebreaker in pvp so problem with stamina i dont have. So this passiv is much more useless

Agreed

hakan

ezio45 wrote: »

Also why would you ever pick highelf over dark elf now? They are the same except darkelf offers the much better higher off resource which is a lot better off a passive.

Before it was a trade off, you needed to up darkelf resource gains, which you did. It is now a good trade off for the resource recov that highelf had. Now however ya just switched highelf for darkelf and now highelf the loser. This isn't an improvement nits just switching around which race is a sub par option

wait am i missing sth? dark elf as magicka character has 1,8k mag and 258 SD meanwhile altmer has 2k mag and same SD. why altmer is the underdog now?

martijnlv40

Browart wrote: »

As magsorc Im using shacklebreaker in pvp so problem with stamina i dont have. So this passiv is much more useless

I saw someone posting the change is a buff to PvP (which is weird because mag recovery is also needed in PvP but whatever.), but as you show you can work around the stats with sets. In PvE that’s a bit harder since it’s all about maximum dps, not as much skill (rotation is practice) as in PvP. A good PvP’er doesn’t need this stamina recovery.

ezio45

hakan wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Also why would you ever pick highelf over dark elf now? They are the same except darkelf offers the much better higher off resource which is a lot better off a passive.

Before it was a trade off, you needed to up darkelf resource gains, which you did. It is now a good trade off for the resource recov that highelf had. Now however ya just switched highelf for darkelf and now highelf the loser. This isn't an improvement nits just switching around which race is a sub par option

wait am i missing sth? dark elf as magicka character has 1,8k mag and 258 SD meanwhile altmer has 2k mag and same SD. why altmer is the underdog now?

Because the 200 mag makes no difference. So your left with the other passive to compare them off of.

While admittedly both the larger Stam pool and higher Stam Regen is pretty useless in pve, they are still the same and the extra Stam is a better bonus. In PvP the larger Stam pool is much better than Stam regen

MLGProPlayer

They aren't a DPS class though. Breton and Khajiit already outparsed them before these nerfs. The gap just widened.

Altmer and Dunmer are not viable for endgame magicka DPS anymore. ZOS wants us to race change. This is a cash grab.

ezio45

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They aren't a DPS class though. Breton and Khajiit already outparsed them before these nerfs. The gap just widened.

Altmer and Dunmer are not viable for endgame magicka DPS anymore. ZOS wants us to race change. This is a cash grab.

Will have to check this out

martijnlv40

ezio45 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They aren't a DPS class though. Breton and Khajiit already outparsed them before these nerfs. The gap just widened.

Altmer and Dunmer are not viable for endgame magicka DPS anymore. ZOS wants us to race change. This is a cash grab.

Will have to check this out

It’s not hard to find lol.
And it would seem a lot like a cash grab, though I don’t believe that. I think it more has to do with incompetence...

ezio45

martijnlv40 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They aren't a DPS class though. Breton and Khajiit already outparsed them before these nerfs. The gap just widened.

Altmer and Dunmer are not viable for endgame magicka DPS anymore. ZOS wants us to race change. This is a cash grab.

Will have to check this out

It’s not hard to find lol.
And it would seem a lot like a cash grab, though I don’t believe that. I think it more has to do with incompetence...

Whatever the case this sucks.....

Altyrann

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They aren't a DPS class though. Breton and Khajiit already outparsed them before these nerfs. The gap just widened.

Altmer and Dunmer are not viable for endgame magicka DPS anymore. ZOS wants us to race change. This is a cash grab.

Relative to Khajiit, both Altmer and Dunmer benefit in terms of raw damage output in this update. Khajiit gained 75 base Magicka, which will give 90 Magicka with CP. Altmer will see their 2,000 base Magicka boosted to 2,500 with CP now applying. The gap in terms of pure output actually narrowed meaningfully.

Khajiit may still be better in some cases if the relative value of crit is higher than additional Mag/SD (more likely to happen for NB/Temp with crit damage passives).

Breton will be better in specific scenarios where you need to sacrifice more than the equivalent of 258 SD to achieve sufficient sustain. This will be worth more for setups which are starved and in cases of disorganised groups without regular synergies and less for setups which can sustain regardless or where there is a lot of sustain from synergies, drain, worm etc.

ruikkarikun

Revert it back!

VeiledCriticism

I thought I didn't need any racial tokens other then the three. I guess we need more than 3 now since High Elf's are worse then Dunmers now, that are not even the best performing magicka race.

BlackMadara

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

ezio45

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

sneakymitchell

Fill out tank roles I guess. But you can still have high stam or magicka as tank. But I guess it helps hybrids I guess even though dark elf has more hybrid stats than high elf.

MLGProPlayer

Hiddle wrote: »

I thought I didn't need any racial tokens other then the three. I guess we need more than 3 now since High Elf's are worse then Dunmers now, that are not even the best performing magicka race.

You knew there would be a catch when they "generously" increased the number of free tokens to 3.

Narvuntien

I think it should be lowest current resource so if you have burnt all your mag you can recharge it.

MLGProPlayer

Narvuntien wrote: »

I think it should be lowest current resource so if you have burnt all your mag you can recharge it.

It still wouldn't be of any noticeable help but would certainly be more useful than the garbage they rolled out today.

LizardThixvim

Sheuib

My magicka templar dies in PVP because I ran out of stam and can't CC break more than any other reason of death. So this is obviously going to be a good change for me. And, don't say I just need a higher stam pool because I am already running over 18k stam on a magicka character. I am also thinking this is going to be better than just straight stam regen if it works while blocking.

Plus an additional 5% damage reduction when I use my jabs on top of minor protection for using jabs. That is going to rock. I have a feeling that people are going to be complaining about heavy armor altmer magicka templars in PVP after this goes live.

Heavy armor passive, channeled focus, and elemental drain I don't think that magicka regen is going to be a problem. I already run just a little over 1300 magicka regen and don't have any problems.

Derra

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

kaevix

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

but but but my very significant 5% damage reduction only when i jabs or soul assault or dark deal!1!1!!1!!1

susmitds

...

Kadoin

Browart wrote: »

As magsorc Im using shacklebreaker in pvp so problem with stamina i dont have. So this passiv is much more useless

Careful, ZOS might read that and nerf shacklebreaker...

pieratsos

Derra wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Mind explaining this a little more in depth?

How is the stamrec useless in pvp? Looking at this from a pvp perspective of magsorc this is quite possibly by far the strongest race you can chose now.

I don´t like it from a pve perspective either.

But why not go with Breton instead. It gives a lot of sustain allowing you to spec into stamina.

Sahidom

This contradicts what their trying to do.

For instance, HE MagBlade wouldn't have to worry about prolong Invisibility because their stamina pool would restore upon recasting Invisibility. Or, HE Sorcerers that have an virtual endless supply of stamina without gearing for recovery because spamming class skills will naturally fill them up to execute breakouts, dodge rolls, etc. Or, Stamplars that will be able to use their utility magic-based skills more frequently in battle i.e. Extended Ritual (over purging negative effects). The list goes on that will score High Elves, as a more superior choice, in most pvp builds. All of these examples doesn't sum up the race is a powerful spell casing race. It's a developers bone with a specific agenda.

Dracane

kaevix wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

but but but my very significant 5% damage reduction only when i jabs or soul assault or dark deal!1!1!!1!!1

Do we even know if the 5% damage mitigation while casting is here to stay ?
To me it sounded like this trash completely replaces the current version of spell recharge.

BlackMadara

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Off stat recovery is very useful in pvp, in most cases. All mag specs can use more stamina restore, and many stam specs can utilize the mag restore. If you proc the new high elf passive 3 times in a fight, you are seeing more resource than a dark elf.

As you said, it is not as useful in pve

The passive is nice. My only gripe with it, is that it doesn't fit the lore of altmer. ZoS is standing on shaky ground for gameplay and lore balance.

Also, 5% damage reduction when channeling or casting CAN be useful. It has of possibilities, especially for templars.

Olupajmibanan

BlackMadara wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

People keep citing the parse comparison done by @susmitds as a means of showing that racial changes are bad and that dunmer and altmer aren't viable for dps, but it shows the opposite.

Previous to today's changes, for mag, altmer had the highest maximum dps, unless using a crit based class, then khajit took the crown, followed by dunmer, with breton having a high average due to sustain.

After today's change, a high end group will benefit most from altmer or khajit dps still, with dunmer following closely behind. Breton is better for those with sustain issues. This from a pve perspective. For pvp, your race can cover for certain aspects of a balanced build, or be used as a focal point for a focused build, similar to the pve side.

Again, in PvP there is 0 reason to pick highelf over darkelf, in pve the 150 mag loss is basically nothing meaning if you go highelf your looking out on 1.8k to get 150 mag. The Stam isn't as useful as in PvP but pve still requires roll dodged and block. Which darkelf gives you free

Off stat recovery is very useful in pvp, in most cases. All mag specs can use more stamina restore, and many stam specs can utilize the mag restore. If you proc the new high elf passive 3 times in a fight, you are seeing more resource than a dark elf.

As you said, it is not as useful in pve

The passive is nice. My only gripe with it, is that it doesn't fit the lore of altmer. ZoS is standing on shaky ground for gameplay and lore balance.

Also, 5% damage reduction when channeling or casting CAN be useful. It has of possibilities, especially for templars.

Higher stamina pool VS conditional stamina restore is a matter of personal prefference.
Magicka difference is negligible.
Spell damage is the same.

So you are left with 5% damage reduction while casting VS 2310 flame resistance and immunity to burning effect.

Everyone can make his opinion.