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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Argonians shouldn’t be tanks
Anyron
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If races are defined by lore, why argonians are race thats supported for tanking? it makes no sense. they were never tanks. it shouldnt this way
they are healers and guerilla warriors ( quick strike and retreat ).
if you dont want them to be sneaky race ( they have shadowscales but nwm ) then at least make them proper race in healing and dps, and get rid of that lore breaking tank role.
Argonian
Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed
Resourceful: argonians are reptilian people with fast metabolism, so resourceful isnt that wrong, but in this state its broken. In this state, passive looks good but mostly 2/3 of it is wasted on other builds than tanks. fast metabolism also means they have good resource management, so,
Increases your Max Magicka by 1000750 and Max Stamina by 750 . Restore 4000 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion. Restore 300 Health and Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
Argonian Resistance:This passive is fine. they have increased healthpool, but there are better races for increasing it further ( like imperial), and " They have developed immunities to diseases that have plagued many would-be explorers in the region" so this makes sense
Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Life Mender: Argonians are healers, but not all of them are dedicated to healing. this change could solve shadowscales issue
Increases your Healing Done by 6 4% and increases weapons or spell damage by 120 based on whichever is higher
with this argonians can be set on right way, as is defined by lore, without them to be OP. they are last inteligent race that survived in black marsh
Edited by Anyron on February 5, 2019 10:39AM they are healers and guerilla warriors ( quick strike and retreat ).
if you dont want them to be sneaky race ( they have shadowscales but nwm ) then at least make them proper race in healing and dps, and get rid of that lore breaking tank role.
Argonian
Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed
Resourceful: argonians are reptilian people with fast metabolism, so resourceful isnt that wrong, but in this state its broken. In this state, passive looks good but mostly 2/3 of it is wasted on other builds than tanks. fast metabolism also means they have good resource management, so,
Increases your Max Magicka by 1000750 and Max Stamina by 750 . Restore 4000 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion. Restore 300 Health and Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
Argonian Resistance:This passive is fine. they have increased healthpool, but there are better races for increasing it further ( like imperial), and " They have developed immunities to diseases that have plagued many would-be explorers in the region" so this makes sense
Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Life Mender: Argonians are healers, but not all of them are dedicated to healing. this change could solve shadowscales issue
Increases your Healing Done by 6 4% and increases weapons or spell damage by 120 based on whichever is higher
with this argonians can be set on right way, as is defined by lore, without them to be OP. they are last inteligent race that survived in black marsh
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validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arena:
Faster Swimming
Intelligence, Agility, Speed
Arcane, Thieving, Pick-pocketing
Daggerfall:
Breath Underwater
Agility, Speed, Strength
Negatives to Endurance
Morrowind:
Agility, Strength, Intelligence, Speed, Strength
Bonus to Athletics
Oblivion:
Immunity to disease and poison
Rogue/Warrior race
Agility, Intelligence, Speed
Skyrim:
Breath underwater
Lockpicking and Pickpocketing
Can recover large amounts of health once a day
50% disease resist
ESO argonians seem to fit just fine to me. You assume they even had well established racial style before. If there's one thing I really like ESO for, its for overwriting a lot of the *** pumped out by BGS and making it into well written cannon. The tribunal is a particularly well re-written section of the lore.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade5 -
KuroDark✭they are the only race to have a healing bonus and they got a crazy sustain potion passive, that's great both for healers & tanks, not only tanks2 -
phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭That healing bonus is extremely meh passive, even if overhealing wasn't as prevalent as it is in ESO there's still the fact that 258 spell damage generally gives equivalent heals while also doing more damage.
And the sustain is not as insane as you think it is, it's 4000/45 = 89/second, which would be the equivalent of 178 recovery
However since this isn't actual recovery it doesn't get boosted by all the recovery multiplier people are hoarding, so we need to adjust for that . For example, Magblades generally have 79% Magicka recovery multiplier iirc.
100/179 = 0.5586
0.5586 * 178 = 100 trigen. Compare that to what the Khajiit are getting.Edited by phantasmalD on February 5, 2019 12:03PM0 -
Kulvar✭✭✭✭they are the only race to have a healing bonus and they got a crazy sustain potion passive, that's great both for healers & tanks, not only tanks
Healer is more about healing smart and consistently to not run out of magicka while keeping buffs up rather than pumping high healing numbers.
So Breton, Khajiit, and even Nord with their ultimate generation are better healer than Argonian.Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact0 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »That healing bonus is extremely meh passive, even if overhealing wasn't as prevalent as it is in ESO there's still the fact that 258 spell damage generally gives equivalent heals while also doing more damage.
And the sustain is not as insane as you think it is, it's 4000/45 = 89/second, which would be the equivalent of 178 recovery
However since this isn't actual recovery it doesn't get boosted by all the recovery multiplier people are hoarding, so we need to adjust for that . For example, Magblades generally have 79% Magicka recovery multiplier iirc.
100/179 = 0.5586
0.5586 * 178 = 100 trigen. Compare that to what the Khajiit are getting.
79% Magicka recovery multiplier? Where exactly did you pull that out of? It is close to 50%, that too if you builds towards that. Also Argonian passive is also boosted by Infused Potion enchants. It then becomes 4000/20, or 200 each resource per second or 400 of mag recovery, stam recovery and health recovery. Also the fact, that it recovers as a burst, makes it even better for PvP.0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭phantasmalD wrote: »That healing bonus is extremely meh passive, even if overhealing wasn't as prevalent as it is in ESO there's still the fact that 258 spell damage generally gives equivalent heals while also doing more damage.
And the sustain is not as insane as you think it is, it's 4000/45 = 89/second, which would be the equivalent of 178 recovery
However since this isn't actual recovery it doesn't get boosted by all the recovery multiplier people are hoarding, so we need to adjust for that . For example, Magblades generally have 79% Magicka recovery multiplier iirc.
100/179 = 0.5586
0.5586 * 178 = 100 trigen. Compare that to what the Khajiit are getting.
79% Magicka recovery multiplier? Where exactly did you pull that out of? It is close to 50%, that too if you builds towards that. Also Argonian passive is also boosted by Infused Potion enchants. It then becomes 4000/20, or 200 each resource per second or 400 of mag recovery, stam recovery and health recovery. Also the fact, that it recovers as a burst, makes it even better for PvP.
only few argonian players uses potion cooldown enchants
and you loose 2400 max magicka with spell damage/recovery/spell cost enchants
potion cooldown enchants can use everyone, not only argonians
potion cooldown enchant is useful ONLY on tanks, its useless on healer + dd because if you use it while your magicka is low, and stam + health full, you get only magicka. 2/3 passive is wasted. if you use detection potion, 3/3 passive is wasted
i wanted to get rid of that fu****g tank role, which is lore breaking and broken
if they change resourceful it can solve everything. changing numbers on it is pointlessEdited by Anyron on February 5, 2019 12:39PM1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »That healing bonus is extremely meh passive, even if overhealing wasn't as prevalent as it is in ESO there's still the fact that 258 spell damage generally gives equivalent heals while also doing more damage.
And the sustain is not as insane as you think it is, it's 4000/45 = 89/second, which would be the equivalent of 178 recovery
However since this isn't actual recovery it doesn't get boosted by all the recovery multiplier people are hoarding, so we need to adjust for that . For example, Magblades generally have 79% Magicka recovery multiplier iirc.
100/179 = 0.5586
0.5586 * 178 = 100 trigen. Compare that to what the Khajiit are getting.
Using pot speed glyphs increases that a lot. Pairing that with Clever alchemist makes it the set to go for argonian DDSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭
Fixed that for you. Don't just cherrypick randomly, include everything.validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Arena:
Faster Swimming
Intelligence, Agility, Speed
Arcane, Thieving, Pick-pocketing
Daggerfall:
Breath Underwater
Agility, Speed, Strength
Negatives to Endurance
According to the flavor text: adept at the arts of thievery and spellcasting, but there are also some warriors
Morrowind:
Immunity to disease and poison
Agility, Strength, Intelligence, Speed, Strength
Negatives to Endurance
Bonus to Athletics, Alchemy, Illusion, Mysticism, Unarmored, Medium armor, Spear
Poison and Disease resistance
Oblivion:
Immunity to disease and poison
Rogue/Warrior(I guess)/ Illusion Mage
Agility, Intelligence, Speed
Negatives to Endurance
Bonus to Athletics, Alchemy, Illusion, Mysticism, Hand-to-Hand, Blade
Poison and Disease resistance
Skyrim:
Breath underwater
Lockpicking and Pickpocketing, Alteration, Light Armor, Restoration, Sneak
Can recover large amounts of health once a day
50% disease resist
Higher unarmed damage
They definitely had a well established racial style before:
Agile and intelligent rogues and support mages who thrive in wet environment but generally less robust than most races (aka -Endurance = had less HP). There were changes here and there mainly due to changing game mechanics but it was still generally coherent for the first 4 games.
Skyrim mixed things up a lot fo every race by getting rid of the Attribute system but the bonuses still kinda line up with the earlier image.
in ESO we have:- Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed → Swimming and restoration affinity is fitting
- Resourceful: Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 4000 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion. → Reflects their affinity for Alchemy, magical arts and burst recovery from Skyrim (which is slightly rogue-y)
- Argonian Resistance: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect. → the Health increase in particular goes against the -Endurance of earlier games which was one of their most consistent trait.
- Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 6%. → They did have affinity for Restoration but not this much
So there's nothing to really showcase their sneaky, assassiny disposition and their mastery of guerilla warfare, all of which is lore actively being backed by ESO (Shadowscales and flavor text)
79% Magicka recovery multiplier? Where exactly did you pull that out of? It is close to 50%, that too if you builds towards that. Also Argonian passive is also boosted by Infused Potion enchants. It then becomes 4000/20, or 200 each resource per second or 400 of mag recovery, stam recovery and health recovery. Also the fact, that it recovers as a burst, makes it even better for PvP.
Potential bonuses:
Vampirism +10%
Refreshing Shadows +15%
75 CP Arcanist +14%
Minor Intellect +10%
Major Intellect +20%
Evocation +4% per LA piece worn
Even more than I remembered, in 7LA that's +97% recovery boost.
To be able to do the Potion glyph schenanigans you need to give up 2.5k base resources (from Arcane/Robust/Healthy trait) AND 507 base recovery or 522 spell damage or any mix of the two (from jewelry glyph). And those are just base resources, you are loosing more cause those 2.5 magicka could be multiplied by your CP passive, the recovery by your recovery multiplier, etc. And then there's the fact that potions still cost money, ~150 gold/per potion on PC EUEdited by phantasmalD on February 5, 2019 1:16PM2 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭phantasmalD wrote: »That healing bonus is extremely meh passive, even if overhealing wasn't as prevalent as it is in ESO there's still the fact that 258 spell damage generally gives equivalent heals while also doing more damage.
And the sustain is not as insane as you think it is, it's 4000/45 = 89/second, which would be the equivalent of 178 recovery
However since this isn't actual recovery it doesn't get boosted by all the recovery multiplier people are hoarding, so we need to adjust for that . For example, Magblades generally have 79% Magicka recovery multiplier iirc.
100/179 = 0.5586
0.5586 * 178 = 100 trigen. Compare that to what the Khajiit are getting.
Using pot speed glyphs increases that a lot. Pairing that with Clever alchemist makes it the set to go for argonian DD
Hard to decide if i pick spell strategist with 700spell damage or clever alchemist with 600..
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Kulvar✭✭✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »They definitely had a well established racial style before:
Agile and intelligent rogues and support mages who thrive in wet environment but generally less robust than most races (aka -Endurance = had less HP). There were changes here and there mainly due to changing game mechanics but it was still generally coherent for the first 4 games.
Skyrim mixed things up a lot fo every race by getting rid of the Attribute system but the bonuses still kinda line up with the earlier image.
[...]
So there's nothing to really showcase their sneaky, assassiny disposition and their mastery of guerilla warfare, all of which is lore actively being backed by ESO (Shadowscales and flavor text)
I wish this was true in ESO racials.Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, I talked about this here:Argonian
Good Attributes: Intelligence (f), Agility (m), Speed (m)
Bad Attributes: Willpower (m), Endurance, Personality
Skills: Alchemy, Alteration, Athletics, Blade, Hand to Hand, Illusion, Light Armor, Medium Armor, Mysticism, Restoration, Security (Lockpicking, Pickpocket, Sneak), Spear, Unarmored
Argonians aren't only the most sexually dimorphic species, their skill bonuses have also changed constantly. There is not one single skill they've had a bonus to in all three games. However, they have always retained some kind of non-offensive magical affinity (Illusion, Alteration, Mysticism, Restoration) as well as skills that require a considerable amount of agility and dexterity (Athletics, Lockpicking, Sneak). Both of these are reflected in their best attributes of Intelligence, Agility and Speed. What Argonians have never been prior to ESO are tanky people who can take a beating, in fact having a weakness in Endurance and Willpower, and an Argonian in heavy armor is basically unheard of. The only thing this could reference is the "Histskin" power from Skyrim, which granted massive health recovery once a day. The Resourceful passive is appropriate, given the bonus to Alchemy in Morrowind and Oblivion, and Quick to Mend can be a reference to their Restoration bonus from Skyrim. However, there is nothing that would reflect Argonian's agile nature. I would suggest to change the 1000 health bonus to 1000 stamina instead.
The resistance to disease is fitting, however, it should be noted that Argonians had complete poison immunity in Morrowind and Oblivion, which only got removed in Skyrim.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »Garbage suggestions
then enlighten us , OP khajiit. whats good solution for you?0 -
KhajiitFelix✭✭✭✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »That healing bonus is extremely meh passive, even if overhealing wasn't as prevalent as it is in ESO there's still the fact that 258 spell damage generally gives equivalent heals while also doing more damage.
And the sustain is not as insane as you think it is, it's 4000/45 = 89/second, which would be the equivalent of 178 recovery
However since this isn't actual recovery it doesn't get boosted by all the recovery multiplier people are hoarding, so we need to adjust for that . For example, Magblades generally have 79% Magicka recovery multiplier iirc.
100/179 = 0.5586
0.5586 * 178 = 100 trigen. Compare that to what the Khajiit are getting.
Using pot speed glyphs increases that a lot. Pairing that with Clever alchemist makes it the set to go for argonian DD
Hard to decide if i pick spell strategist with 700spell damage or clever alchemist with 600..
@Anyron Alchemist is much better. It give 600 SD for every target. While spell strategist is useless set for beating skeletons.0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »phantasmalD wrote: »That healing bonus is extremely meh passive, even if overhealing wasn't as prevalent as it is in ESO there's still the fact that 258 spell damage generally gives equivalent heals while also doing more damage.
And the sustain is not as insane as you think it is, it's 4000/45 = 89/second, which would be the equivalent of 178 recovery
However since this isn't actual recovery it doesn't get boosted by all the recovery multiplier people are hoarding, so we need to adjust for that . For example, Magblades generally have 79% Magicka recovery multiplier iirc.
100/179 = 0.5586
0.5586 * 178 = 100 trigen. Compare that to what the Khajiit are getting.
Using pot speed glyphs increases that a lot. Pairing that with Clever alchemist makes it the set to go for argonian DD
Hard to decide if i pick spell strategist with 700spell damage or clever alchemist with 600..
@Anyron Alchemist is much better. It give 600 SD for every target. While spell strategist is useless set for beating skeletons.
1v1 it doesnt matter0 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, right? Of all the TES games I played, Argonians never screamed tank to me. You know the only race to be hatched/born into an elite guild of assassins and all that. These Devs have obviously never played a TES game before ESO ever. Also lol at not being resistance to poison when we had a 100% immunity for what over a decade?Edited by Koronach on February 5, 2019 4:04PM0
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KhajiitFelix✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »Garbage suggestions
then enlighten us , OP khajiit. whats good solution for you?
Don't touch it.0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is goign on with ESO community,
Some want Argonian as Tank?
Some want best healers?
Some want Best DPS?0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KhajiitFelix wrote: »Garbage suggestions
then enlighten us , OP khajiit. whats good solution for you?
Khajit are just fine and are not OP,
It may be Lear 2 Play issue. ZOS should not touch Khajit to make them useless.0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, argonians would be hardened lore wise by generations of being in dunmer plantations so it makes perfect sense0