Dunmer still lacks something to make them interesting (and Altmer has lost its identity)

Sinolai · February 2019

I have done some editing to this thread snice I have noticed the problem is not only what Dunmer is lacking but also what Altmer has lost and how this harms the diversity between the two.

4.3.2 has increased Dunmer max magicka and max stamina. This change brings them closer to Altmer and damage wise they are now similar. Removal of Altmer's sustain tool has also brought them closer to each others. This also creates a problem:
Altmer's spellcharge 4.3.2 might be handy tool and is something interesting not availiable to other magicka races (though magicka redguard would have quite similar benefit with less max magicka and more stamina), but the removal of Altmer's sutain has taken away its magic focused identity and Altmer now drops behind Khajiit and Breton, when it used to be between them as a mix of sustain and damage. Without magicka sustain Altmer has become much what Dunmer is, just with extra stamina recovery.
Dunmer on the other hand hasnt even found their racial identity yet. Their only unique passive is their fire resistance and burning immunity which might also interest some PvP players but overall the racials are still boring. The choice between Dunmer and Altmer is now mostly roleplay reasons.

Although the Altmer's new spell charge is interesting and quite useful, I'd also recommend changing that back to what it was on 4.3.1 in order to keep Altmer competitive against Breton, Khajiit and possibly Dunmer if it gets something interesting. My second post has a bit more reasoning for this and I recommend reading it too.

I suggest to Nerf Dunmer's max resource to 1500 (or even back to 1250?) and give Altmer their sustain tool back. This will diversify Altmer and Dunmer.
Then, give Dunmer some unique utility that helps to attract players choosing it over other races. a couple of suggestions for the Dunmer's last passive:
-Give them increased change to proc status effects (Burn/Chill/Concussion/Poison/Disease/Bleed)
-Give them Small spell/weapon damage boost against targets with less than 20% health (Racial execute)
-Give them small spell/weapon damage boost against targets affected by status effect
-Give them Small spell/weapon damage boost when their Health is <50%
-Give them 4.3.2 Spell Recharge and give Altmer something else. Eg. increased enchantment effects. This would fit Dunmer's "duality" theme and also add Altmers to possible Healer and Tank roles as most important raid buffs come from the Tank and Healer. (Might be dangerously good on healer to become "the only race?" Tank would sascrifice a lot for it atleast… Flat increase might not be as devastating as %?) One possibility would also be increased Mundus stone effect (about 7%? a bit less than what 1 golden armor piece gives)

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

How. What? Why? Hello?

3.5k flame resist? IMMUNITY to burning?

Does bonus resistance and immunity to the status effect of the single most prevalent magic type not provide enough racial style and benefit for you?

Sinolai · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How. What? Why? Hello?

3.5k flame resist? IMMUNITY to burning?

Does bonus resistance and immunity to the status effect of the single most prevalent magic type not provide enough racial style and benefit for you?

I would compare Dunmer to Bosmer. They have immunity to the most prevalent physical status effect (poison), resistance to poison damage, huge stamina pool and huge stamina regen. Yet they get that funny/annoying roll-dodge booster.

Where is Dunmer's roll-dodge booster? Yes, burning immunity is very useful, especially if you are pvp vampire and probably attracts some attention from PvP players. But the racials are very straightforward and offers nothing interesting to build around. In PvE the choice between Altmer and Dunmer is now how you wanna do your Roleplaying, although theoretically Altmer is still stronger even without magicka return passive (though in practice the difference is nonexcistant).

Would be nice to get something more dynamic, even if it means nerfing the resource pools back to 1250. And perhaps return Altmer's magicka sustain tool so they do not fall behind (and make it proc from guild abilities too so those without class spammable can use Ele-weapon to proc it).

EDIT:
Additionally to defend my statement, Breton and Redguard changes were justified as:
"While Bretons had been brought up to speed with our other races with our first round of changes, we still felt the story or unique element to be missing. We added a small contextual flavor bonus on their Spell Attunement passive to help highlight their ability to shrug off magical attacks."

"While we're relatively happy with the performance and identity of the Redguard race, we noticed they lacked that unique flavor or story piece in their passives that helped add a little something different. Due to their training in battle and ability to flow in combat, we decided to help them retain some of their fluidity by granting a small reduction to snare potency."

Isn't this the case with Dunmers aswell?

Kalle_Demos · February 2019

Return the Dunmer bonus to elemental damage. Replacing the Dumer Fire Damage (7%) Lightning Damage (2%) and Ice Damage (2%) with just magic damage not only strips them of an identifying trait that players have built around for years but it's also just plain boring.

Twohothardware · February 2019

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

Sinolai · February 2019

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

That is probably what ZoS has been after aswell..... unfortunately hybrid builds do not work well due to the way how damage comes from max resource and how hard sustaining a hybrid is - especially with a race that has no sustain passives. Ironically, since Dunmer stats are divided equally to Mag and Stam, Weapon and Spell Damage, they are also the worst possible users for Pelinals, which was suppised to be the hybrid set.

The old elemental damage boosts were nice but the huge fire damage was a bit problematic as it made Dunmer "the only race" for MagDK.

I would like to bring this Dunmer suggestion up once again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5737723#Comment_5737723
Increased change to apply status effects would be something not offered by any other race, allows some theorycrafting and benefits both magicka and stamina builds.

Kalle_Demos · February 2019

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

This is incorrect. Dunmer lore, culture and heritage is rich with their deep ties to Magic. While they are versatile their martial prowess does not compare with that of Nords or Redguards. Their Magic capacity, specifically their affinity for Destruction Magic (Fire, Lightning, Ice) is rivaled only by the Altmer. In ESO the Dunmer has always been a top damage dealer in Magic and players have built their characters around this fact for years. This is their identity and it shouldn't be altered so drastically.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Return the Dunmer bonus to elemental damage. Replacing the Dumer Fire Damage (7%) Lightning Damage (2%) and Ice Damage (2%) with just magic damage not only strips them of an identifying trait that players have built around for years but it's also just plain boring.

Also very limiting for build diversity, on the other flip of the coin.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

This is incorrect. Dunmer lore, culture and heritage is rich with their deep ties to Magic. While they are versatile their martial prowess does not compare with that of Nords or Redguards. Their Magic capacity, specifically their affinity for Destruction Magic (Fire, Lightning, Ice) is rivaled only by the Altmer. In ESO the Dunmer has always been a top damage dealer in Magic and players have built their characters around this fact for years. This is their identity and it shouldn't be altered so drastically.

Altmer AND Breton. Dunmer have plenty of established lore as warriors. They kicked the nords out of skyrim at one point, and subdued the dwemer. These things where not done by magic alone, and older elderscrolls titles give Dunmer plenty of buffs in areas we consider stamina build stats in ESO.

Kalle_Demos · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Return the Dunmer bonus to elemental damage. Replacing the Dumer Fire Damage (7%) Lightning Damage (2%) and Ice Damage (2%) with just magic damage not only strips them of an identifying trait that players have built around for years but it's also just plain boring.

Also very limiting for build diversity, on the other flip of the coin.

As it is now in live players have a choice between Altmer and Dunmer for top Mag DPS with benefits and drawbacks for each. With the alterations Altmer was the clear winner of that contest until the change to Spell charge. Now the obvious choice is Breton. Stamina builds also benefited from the elemental passives as they affected enchantments and Sets too. I'd argue that Nerfing the Magicka builds in favor of hybrid ones makes the diversity argument null because hybrid builds do not work.The proposed changes have not increased diversity but limited it further.

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

This is incorrect. Dunmer lore, culture and heritage is rich with their deep ties to Magic. While they are versatile their martial prowess does not compare with that of Nords or Redguards. Their Magic capacity, specifically their affinity for Destruction Magic (Fire, Lightning, Ice) is rivaled only by the Altmer. In ESO the Dunmer has always been a top damage dealer in Magic and players have built their characters around this fact for years. This is their identity and it shouldn't be altered so drastically.

Altmer AND Breton. Dunmer have plenty of established lore as warriors. They kicked the nords out of skyrim at one point, and subdued the dwemer. These things where not done by magic alone, and older elderscrolls titles give Dunmer plenty of buffs in areas we consider stamina build stats in ESO.

As I have pointed out, while Dunmer are versatile their capacity for Destruction Magic spikes above any of their martial prowess. Warrior to warrior, Dunmer cannot compete with Nords or Redguards. It is their Magic that gives them an edge. And I am not arguing against extending stamina bonuses to Dunmer but against Nerfing their Magicka side of their duality in the process. The changes are problematic in terms of lore, diversity, balance and identity.

zaria · February 2019

Sinolai wrote: »

4.3.2 has increased Dunmer max magicka and max stamina. This change brings them closer to Altmer and damage wise they are now similar. Removal of Altmer's sustain tool has also brought them closer to each others. One problem still remains:
Dunmer hasn't found his racial identity. Altmer's spellcharge might be handy tool and is something interesting not availiable to other magicka races (though magicka redguard would have quite similar benefit with less max magicka and more stamina) The choice between Dunmer and Altmer is now mostly roleplay reasons.
On the other hand this is good but what is missing is something that gives Dunmer a bit of flavour. Their only unique passive is their fire resistance and burning immunity which might also interest some PvP players but overall the racials are still boring.

Altmer got an interesting passive.
You can also get it if asking hard.

Khajiit trying to look very boring while moving over to the most boring area of the map to hide.

ThePainGuy · February 2019

Sinolai wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

That is probably what ZoS has been after aswell..... unfortunately hybrid builds do not work well due to the way how damage comes from max resource and how hard sustaining a hybrid is - especially with a race that has no sustain passives. Ironically, since Dunmer stats are divided equally to Mag and Stam, Weapon and Spell Damage, they are also the worst possible users for Pelinals, which was suppised to be the hybrid set.

The old elemental damage boosts were nice but the huge fire damage was a bit problematic as it made Dunmer "the only race" for MagDK.

I would like to bring this Dunmer suggestion up once again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5737723#Comment_5737723
Increased change to apply status effects would be something not offered by any other race, allows some theorycrafting and benefits both magicka and stamina builds.

This sounds cool and unique. I’ve been advocating adding something to fire resist passive to give dunmers some spice. Max stats with fire resist is unimaginative and boring. Dunmer is in a good spot, but would love something like this that makes it stand out but doesn’t overload the race. How frequently do monsters in PVE suffer from burning and concussed status effects? Just curious...

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · February 2019

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Warrior to warrior, Dunmer cannot compete with Nords or Redguards.

I respectfully disagree.

Dunmer grow up in the most inhospitable environment on Tamriel. They are physically the same size as humans, which makes them the equal of Redguards, and slightly smaller than Nords. They are more agile, and FAR more intelligent, and if you don't think those qualities translate to hand-to-hand combat, you've never spent any time on a jiu-jitsu mat.

And here's the trump card: Dunmer can live hundreds, even thousands of years. Anyone who spends centuries perfecting their art (as opposed to decades) will ALWAYS have the edge. Not to mention that they can train at a higher intensity for a greater portion of their lives due to the fact that they're still in their prime long after a Nord or Redguard has died of old age.

Kalle_Demos · February 2019

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Warrior to warrior, Dunmer cannot compete with Nords or Redguards.

I respectfully disagree.

Dunmer grow up in the most inhospitable environment on Tamriel. They are physically the same size as humans, which makes them the equal of Redguards, and slightly smaller than Nords. They are more agile, and FAR more intelligent, and if you don't think those qualities translate to hand-to-hand combat, you've never spent any time on a jiu-jitsu mat.

And here's the trump card: Dunmer can live hundreds, even thousands of years. Anyone who spends centuries perfecting their art (as opposed to decades) will ALWAYS have the edge. Not to mention that they can train at a higher intensity for a greater portion of their lives due to the fact that they're still in their prime long after a Nord or Redguard has died of old age.

Redguards and Nords are physically superior and better warriors. This is not up for debate in this fictional context but from an objective POV you are correct (I'm of the opinion that the Nords should have never been able to challenge the established and more advanced Falmer). Can a Dunmer that dedicate their long life to physical means of fighting and be better? Sure. In the same vein that Redguards and Nords CAN become great Mages. Intelligence, in the Elder Scrolls series, is an attribute that has always emphasized one's magical capacity. Dunmer longevity is also associated with their affinity for Magic which is their Elven heritage as with the Altmer. As I pointed out, Dunmer skill with Destruction Magic spikes higher than their physical attributes. A Dunmer, hundreds of years old and still in their prime, will find much more use of their Master level Destruction Spells than with any blade.

Sinolai · February 2019

zaria wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

4.3.2 has increased Dunmer max magicka and max stamina. This change brings them closer to Altmer and damage wise they are now similar. Removal of Altmer's sustain tool has also brought them closer to each others. One problem still remains:
Dunmer hasn't found his racial identity. Altmer's spellcharge might be handy tool and is something interesting not availiable to other magicka races (though magicka redguard would have quite similar benefit with less max magicka and more stamina) The choice between Dunmer and Altmer is now mostly roleplay reasons.
On the other hand this is good but what is missing is something that gives Dunmer a bit of flavour. Their only unique passive is their fire resistance and burning immunity which might also interest some PvP players but overall the racials are still boring.

Altmer got an interesting passive.
You can also get it if asking hard.

Khajiit trying to look very boring while moving over to the most boring area of the map to hide.

Yeah, Khajiit is also a bit dull but atleast they shine in the spot that was meant for them and compared to live it is a buff. The Altmer has now lost it's magicka sustain completely and Dunmer that was nothing but damage on top of damage was about to lose a bit of its damage. New patch has brought the Dunmer closer to what it is on live but it hasn't recieved anything new while other races got buffs that have given them utility value, dropping Dunmer and Altmer from number 1 and 2 magicka dd spots to positions 3 and 4. Crit bonus is so strong that it drives Khajiit to potentially best burst damage dealer (as long as RNGJesus is on your side) spot in both magicka and stamina tables and takes over the Dunmer's old spot as pure damage race in magicka builds, meanwhile Altmer loses its balanced spot between damage and sustain.

Faulgor · February 2019

Dunmer's highest stat in the single player games has always been Speed, yet they have absolutely no bonus in that regard. They are tied with Bosmer as the two fastest races in Tamriel, but you wouldn't know it from looking at ESO.
They've also always had a special ability related to their Ancestor worship, e.g. getting protection from a dead ancestor or outright summoning an ancestor ghost.

Any of those translated into a utility or flavor passive would be very welcome.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Dunmer's highest stat in the single player games has always been Speed, yet they have absolutely no bonus in that regard. They are tied with Bosmer as the two fastest races in Tamriel, but you wouldn't know it from looking at ESO.
They've also always had a special ability related to their Ancestor worship, e.g. getting protection from a dead ancestor or outright summoning an ancestor ghost.

Any of those translated into a utility or flavor passive would be very welcome.

I agree but at the same time if you want more we have to lose stuff, and quite frankly the fire stuff is too good to lose. Sure, I'd trade the fire resist for like 2% moves peed, but definitely not the burning immunity.

Sinolai · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Dunmer's highest stat in the single player games has always been Speed, yet they have absolutely no bonus in that regard. They are tied with Bosmer as the two fastest races in Tamriel, but you wouldn't know it from looking at ESO.
They've also always had a special ability related to their Ancestor worship, e.g. getting protection from a dead ancestor or outright summoning an ancestor ghost.

Any of those translated into a utility or flavor passive would be very welcome.

I agree but at the same time if you want more we have to lose stuff, and quite frankly the fire stuff is too good to lose. Sure, I'd trade the fire resist for like 2% moves peed, but definitely not the burning immunity.

I would nerf the dual resource pool to 1500 (or maybe even back to 1250). That would also diversify Altmer and Dunmer by making Altmer a tiny bit stronger than Dunmer. Khaiit now has raw damage, Altmer would have a mix of damage and sustain and Breton is pure sustain. Then give Dunmer something that makes them more attractive even without being the top damage or top sustain. (Eg. Increased status change, conditional damage boosts like racial execute (increased damage against low HP targets, or damage boost when you attack target affected by Burn/Chill/Concussion/Poison/Disease/Bleed), increased enchantment potencies (actually I think this could be Altmer passive?) This would also open spots for Dunmer Healers and Tanks due to them applying the most important raid enchantments.

sionIV · February 2019

In my opinion, the Dunmer already has a very strong identity, that ties into the races lore from Morrowind. I'm perfectly fine with changing their identity, but then that'll happen through REMOVAL of passives and not give them more. They have way too much going on for them right now.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

sionIV wrote: »

In my opinion, the Dunmer already has a very strong identity, that ties into the races lore from Morrowind. I'm perfectly fine with changing their identity, but then that'll happen through REMOVAL of passives and not give them more. They have way too much going on for them right now.

That is exactly what I'm worried about with people asking for more identity. We have enough imo. Not *** loads but plenty.

Seraphayel · February 2019

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

This is incorrect. Dunmer lore, culture and heritage is rich with their deep ties to Magic. While they are versatile their martial prowess does not compare with that of Nords or Redguards. Their Magic capacity, specifically their affinity for Destruction Magic (Fire, Lightning, Ice) is rivaled only by the Altmer. In ESO the Dunmer has always been a top damage dealer in Magic and players have built their characters around this fact for years. This is their identity and it shouldn't be altered so drastically.

It is altered in no way. Their affinity for Destruction Magic is called "Spell Damage" now and not diversified into Fire, Lightning and Ice anymore. In the end it's still there and even better than before because now even Magic Damage is affected by the new bonus.

idk · February 2019

Sinolai wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How. What? Why? Hello?

3.5k flame resist? IMMUNITY to burning?

Does bonus resistance and immunity to the status effect of the single most prevalent magic type not provide enough racial style and benefit for you?

I would compare Dunmer to Bosmer. They have immunity to the most prevalent physical status effect (poison), resistance to poison damage, huge stamina pool and huge stamina regen. Yet they get that funny/annoying roll-dodge booster.

Where is Dunmer's roll-dodge booster? Yes, burning immunity is very useful, especially if you are pvp vampire and probably attracts some attention from PvP players. But the racials are very straightforward and offers nothing interesting to build around. In PvE the choice between Altmer and Dunmer is now how you wanna do your Roleplaying, although theoretically Altmer is still stronger even without magicka return passive (though in practice the difference is nonexcistant).

Would be nice to get something more dynamic, even if it means nerfing the resource pools back to 1250. And perhaps return Altmer's magicka sustain tool so they do not fall behind (and make it proc from guild abilities too so those without class spammable can use Ele-weapon to proc it).

EDIT:
Additionally to defend my statement, Breton and Redguard changes were justified as:
"While Bretons had been brought up to speed with our other races with our first round of changes, we still felt the story or unique element to be missing. We added a small contextual flavor bonus on their Spell Attunement passive to help highlight their ability to shrug off magical attacks."

"While we're relatively happy with the performance and identity of the Redguard race, we noticed they lacked that unique flavor or story piece in their passives that helped add a little something different. Due to their training in battle and ability to flow in combat, we decided to help them retain some of their fluidity by granting a small reduction to snare potency."

Isn't this the case with Dunmers aswell?

You can make such skewed comparisons when you ignore the facts and twist the comparisons as you are merely because you want something to be different than it is.

Dunmer has more static base damage stats than the bosmer and I am just talking about the stats benefiting a pure mag or stam build. That dodge Bosmer dodge roll you bring up gives the bosmer spell pen for a lengthy 3 seconds. Wow. I am so glad I do not have a Bosmer.

Then mention the resistance to burning being helpful in PvP but you completely ignore the fire resistance which is extremely helpful in PvE. Off the top of my head I am thinking vCoA II, vDSA, vMA, vHoF, vAS and there is more but I will stop there.

You cannot dissect and only compare pieces that but ignore the full package. Most are smart enough to see through that, Zos certainly is.

Sinolai · February 2019

idk wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How. What? Why? Hello?

3.5k flame resist? IMMUNITY to burning?

Does bonus resistance and immunity to the status effect of the single most prevalent magic type not provide enough racial style and benefit for you?

I would compare Dunmer to Bosmer. They have immunity to the most prevalent physical status effect (poison), resistance to poison damage, huge stamina pool and huge stamina regen. Yet they get that funny/annoying roll-dodge booster.

Where is Dunmer's roll-dodge booster? Yes, burning immunity is very useful, especially if you are pvp vampire and probably attracts some attention from PvP players. But the racials are very straightforward and offers nothing interesting to build around. In PvE the choice between Altmer and Dunmer is now how you wanna do your Roleplaying, although theoretically Altmer is still stronger even without magicka return passive (though in practice the difference is nonexcistant).

Would be nice to get something more dynamic, even if it means nerfing the resource pools back to 1250. And perhaps return Altmer's magicka sustain tool so they do not fall behind (and make it proc from guild abilities too so those without class spammable can use Ele-weapon to proc it).

EDIT:
Additionally to defend my statement, Breton and Redguard changes were justified as:
"While Bretons had been brought up to speed with our other races with our first round of changes, we still felt the story or unique element to be missing. We added a small contextual flavor bonus on their Spell Attunement passive to help highlight their ability to shrug off magical attacks."

"While we're relatively happy with the performance and identity of the Redguard race, we noticed they lacked that unique flavor or story piece in their passives that helped add a little something different. Due to their training in battle and ability to flow in combat, we decided to help them retain some of their fluidity by granting a small reduction to snare potency."

Isn't this the case with Dunmers aswell?

You can make such skewed comparisons when you ignore the facts and twist the comparisons as you are merely because you want something to be different than it is.

Dunmer has more static base damage stats than the bosmer and I am just talking about the stats benefiting a pure mag or stam build. That dodge Bosmer dodge roll you bring up gives the bosmer spell pen for a lengthy 3 seconds. Wow. I am so glad I do not have a Bosmer.

Then mention the resistance to burning being helpful in PvP but you completely ignore the fire resistance which is extremely helpful in PvE. Off the top of my head I am thinking vCoA II, vDSA, vMA, vHoF, vAS and there is more but I will stop there.

You cannot dissect and only compare pieces that but ignore the full package. Most are smart enough to see through that, Zos certainly is.

Which is why I am also suggesting to lower the dual-stat resource passive (and I wouldn't care if they also took a bit of their spell/weapon damage passive too IF they recieved a passive that gives them conditional damage boost). Just do something that makes Altmer and Dunmer mages feel different. Right now the most game affecting difference is skin colour.

WoppaBoem · February 2019

Love the change, I loss some damage but not much but gain fire restist and stam. Dunmer is very good in PVP

Lughlongarm · February 2019

-Very interesting race , got the burning passives which is interesting and very desired by any vamp build which are quite popular.

- Can perform as top tier damage dealer on either magicka on stamina - for all those who like to switch between builds.

-Best race for hybrid builds, getting more effective and popular over time on pvp.

Sinolai · February 2019

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Love the change, I loss some damage but not much but gain fire restist and stam. Dunmer is very good in PVP

Lughlongarm wrote: »

-Very interesting race , got the burning passives which is interesting and very desired by any vamp build which are quite popular.

- Can perform as top tier damage dealer on either magicka on stamina - for all those who like to switch between builds.

-Best race for hybrid builds, getting more effective and popular over time on pvp.

As I have stated in the posts above. I know it is attractive PvP race. Many people also dont know but they are burn immune on live too. From PvE perspective, Altmer and Dunmer mages however are now copies of each others, which is boring. Something needs to be done to diversify the two from each others.

idk · February 2019

Sinolai wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

How. What? Why? Hello?

3.5k flame resist? IMMUNITY to burning?

Does bonus resistance and immunity to the status effect of the single most prevalent magic type not provide enough racial style and benefit for you?

I would compare Dunmer to Bosmer. They have immunity to the most prevalent physical status effect (poison), resistance to poison damage, huge stamina pool and huge stamina regen. Yet they get that funny/annoying roll-dodge booster.

Where is Dunmer's roll-dodge booster? Yes, burning immunity is very useful, especially if you are pvp vampire and probably attracts some attention from PvP players. But the racials are very straightforward and offers nothing interesting to build around. In PvE the choice between Altmer and Dunmer is now how you wanna do your Roleplaying, although theoretically Altmer is still stronger even without magicka return passive (though in practice the difference is nonexcistant).

Would be nice to get something more dynamic, even if it means nerfing the resource pools back to 1250. And perhaps return Altmer's magicka sustain tool so they do not fall behind (and make it proc from guild abilities too so those without class spammable can use Ele-weapon to proc it).

EDIT:
Additionally to defend my statement, Breton and Redguard changes were justified as:
"While Bretons had been brought up to speed with our other races with our first round of changes, we still felt the story or unique element to be missing. We added a small contextual flavor bonus on their Spell Attunement passive to help highlight their ability to shrug off magical attacks."

"While we're relatively happy with the performance and identity of the Redguard race, we noticed they lacked that unique flavor or story piece in their passives that helped add a little something different. Due to their training in battle and ability to flow in combat, we decided to help them retain some of their fluidity by granting a small reduction to snare potency."

Isn't this the case with Dunmers aswell?

You can make such skewed comparisons when you ignore the facts and twist the comparisons as you are merely because you want something to be different than it is.

Dunmer has more static base damage stats than the bosmer and I am just talking about the stats benefiting a pure mag or stam build. That dodge Bosmer dodge roll you bring up gives the bosmer spell pen for a lengthy 3 seconds. Wow. I am so glad I do not have a Bosmer.

Then mention the resistance to burning being helpful in PvP but you completely ignore the fire resistance which is extremely helpful in PvE. Off the top of my head I am thinking vCoA II, vDSA, vMA, vHoF, vAS and there is more but I will stop there.

You cannot dissect and only compare pieces that but ignore the full package. Most are smart enough to see through that, Zos certainly is.

Which is why I am also suggesting to lower the dual-stat resource passive (and I wouldn't care if they also took a bit of their spell/weapon damage passive too IF they recieved a passive that gives them conditional damage boost). Just do something that makes Altmer and Dunmer mages feel different. Right now the most game affecting difference is skin colour.

Your suggestion is one thing. Your argument is what I said was false. It was smoke and mirrors since it ignored the full picture.

Zos made them a good race for hybrids, which was one of their stated goals, and the race is still good for a pure build. Reducing their damage states would make them less desirable.

Even with this recent statement of yours the comparison is clearly still ignoring the actual facts as Dunmer and High Elf have plenty that differentiate them.

WoppaBoem · February 2019

Sinolai wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Love the change, I loss some damage but not much but gain fire restist and stam. Dunmer is very good in PVP

Lughlongarm wrote: »

-Very interesting race , got the burning passives which is interesting and very desired by any vamp build which are quite popular.

- Can perform as top tier damage dealer on either magicka on stamina - for all those who like to switch between builds.

-Best race for hybrid builds, getting more effective and popular over time on pvp.

As I have stated in the posts above. I know it is attractive PvP race. Many people also dont know but they are burn immune on live too. From PvE perspective, Altmer and Dunmer mages however are now copies of each others, which is boring. Something needs to be done to diversify the two from each others.

Seriously, 4% elemental damage compared to 7% fire and 2% shock, ice.

I agree that is a different but very small one....

Witar · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

This is incorrect. Dunmer lore, culture and heritage is rich with their deep ties to Magic. While they are versatile their martial prowess does not compare with that of Nords or Redguards. Their Magic capacity, specifically their affinity for Destruction Magic (Fire, Lightning, Ice) is rivaled only by the Altmer. In ESO the Dunmer has always been a top damage dealer in Magic and players have built their characters around this fact for years. This is their identity and it shouldn't be altered so drastically.

Altmer AND Breton.

Could you remember some equivalent to house telvanni in breton culture seen in the game? I can't. While lorewise bretons have some altmer ancestry (and magicka talent cause of this) they are not as magicka oriented as elves are.

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Witar wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Dunmer is the hybrid race capable of performing well in dps as stamina or magicka and they have an affinity to resist fire damage. That's their identity and they don't need anything else. With the buff today they get nearly the same bonus as the 5th Trait from Shacklebreaker along with 258 weapon and spell damage.

This is incorrect. Dunmer lore, culture and heritage is rich with their deep ties to Magic. While they are versatile their martial prowess does not compare with that of Nords or Redguards. Their Magic capacity, specifically their affinity for Destruction Magic (Fire, Lightning, Ice) is rivaled only by the Altmer. In ESO the Dunmer has always been a top damage dealer in Magic and players have built their characters around this fact for years. This is their identity and it shouldn't be altered so drastically.

Altmer AND Breton.

Could you remember some equivalent to house telvanni in breton culture seen in the game? I can't. While lorewise bretons have some altmer ancestry (and magicka talent cause of this) they are not as magicka oriented as elves are.

Great mages need a lot of stamina in order to be able to stay up all night studying. Can't find any other rational explanation for the Spell Recharge change.

Turelus · February 2019

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Return the Dunmer bonus to elemental damage. Replacing the Dumer Fire Damage (7%) Lightning Damage (2%) and Ice Damage (2%) with just magic damage not only strips them of an identifying trait that players have built around for years but it's also just plain boring.

See I am against this because it pigeon holes Dunmer into using fire attacks. They're meant to be skilled at destruction magic, not a specific subset of destruction magic.

I mean right now they're pretty close to how they've been represented in every other TES game, resistant to fire and skilled at martial and magic skills.