Please reconsider upcoming Altmer nerfs/changes

Dracane · February 2019

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves, altmer is and even with PTS 4.3.0, was still literally choking other races out of any magicka viability because it had everything while the others didn't. Yes, sucks to be you because i assume every single magicka character you ever made is altmer, but you should have seen it coming when 90% of the PVE population is altmer.

Did you check any of the actual testing done? Of course not.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE&t=1s

Breton had better sustain and DPS. Khajiit had better DPS on 2/4 classes (templar and NB, the top 2 classes).

I don't care about your "tests". There are playstyles where having the insane base damage that altmer has will be worth more than any other races due to being able to control the fight length (PVP). This game is not just your PVE monkey rotations, there are use cases for high magicka damage burst in short durations, at which altmer will be the best.

Breton has higher base damage with berserker glyph.

No it doesn't because altmer can also use berserker glyph.

No, they can't, because they lack the sustain.

So this is the mental capacity of a PVE raider.

You lost an argument, so you resort to personal attacks. Nice.

I didn't lose it. If the fight lasts for 30 seconds and then i retreat and use a skill that regenerates my stats then i don't need breton sustain and I get the benefit of the most damaging race. I don't need your sustain. Now go cry in a corner about your monkey rotations getting ruined because ZOS doesn't want every race to be the same. Maybe one day you will l2p as well

So Altmer is becoming a poor version of Dunmer ? Dunmer having almost the same damage stats after today and a bunch of other usefull stats and you think this is fun ?

You could just admit that you are having a problem with Altmer and don't actually care for anything other than that. All your posts speak for themselves though.

Drdeath20 · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I don't even play Altmer and can see this is just a terrible change.
ZOS wants both Dunmer and Altmer to be Damage races and Breton to be the sustain race. The problem is that the Sustain race is currently doing more damage than both Damage races. (more so Dunmer than Altmer but still) Buffing up Dunmer makes sense but at the same time, the differences in Altmer and Breton are very, VERY minute to a point that they're almost perfectly balanced. Nerfing Altmer's sustain for more damage puts a strain on that balance since now we just return the same issue we had before, with Altmer and Dunmer being the best Magic races for damage and Breton just sort of being there on the sidelines for healing and that's just not fair for anyone involved.

Just playing devils advocate here but if you compare their racials altmer does have more damage flat out in their passives.

Both 2k max mag
Altmer gets 258 spd while breton gets 7% cost reduction
Breton gets resistances and 100 recovery while altmer will get something else.

But that's the problem. You can't look at the passives in a vacuum.

Because of their built in sustain, Breton can use Berserker enchant. This means that Breton get 452 spell damage while Altmer only get 258. This is why they already do more damage on the current PTS built and will only do more after Altmer get nerfed.

Ahh ok soo on a test dummy altmer now has sustain issues and must put on glyphs for it even doing full raid testing. Well i do agree that i dislike hearing about the change but i am actually optimistic about how the racials will be handled. Just basing it off the last couple of patches where silly decisions were made and then rightfully corrected and even then were adjusted again.

Girl_Number8 · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everything was perfect. Some races needed some lifting here and there, the rest was fine. Altmer was a good example for this. I just don't get why they would nerf them now, despite them not even being the top dps race. Taking their sustain will likely put them even behind Dunmer, depending on how many further stats they get.

We just got ZOS'd. They trick us into thinking they're balancing the game, then they pull the rug out from under us.

They always do this, lol. That's why I never push nerfs because the solution is always worse and causes more of a lackluster game then not.

Mayrael · February 2019

Scrubs will always cry, because that 2% of extra damage is why others have 50k+ DPS while all they have is 25k. Logic.

IronWooshu · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

They plan to take away Altmer's and Orc's sustain with reasoning "no race should have both dmg and sustain".
WHY IS KHAJIT UNTOUCHED THEN? Take away Khajit recovery passive as well. Khajit offers the best dps (in trial group) even now. And on top of that, it has some sustain. The very same case like Altmer or Orc.

When all is said and done Khajiit is getting more buffs tomorrow.

StarOfElyon · February 2019

I can't help but think it's all because of Elsweyr. If not for that, these buffs to the Kajiit probably wouldn't happen.

Rikumaru · February 2019

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves, altmer is and even with PTS 4.3.0, was still literally choking other races out of any magicka viability because it had everything while the others didn't. Yes, sucks to be you because i assume every single magicka character you ever made is altmer, but you should have seen it coming when 90% of the PVE population is altmer.

Did you check any of the actual testing done? Of course not.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE&t=1s

Breton had better sustain and DPS. Khajiit had better DPS on 2/4 classes (templar and NB, the top 2 classes).

I don't care about your "tests". There are playstyles where having the insane base damage that altmer has will be worth more than any other races due to being able to control the fight length (PVP). This game is not just your PVE monkey rotations, there are use cases for high magicka damage burst in short durations, at which altmer will be the best.

What? Breton looked far superior in PvP than altmer (particularly with heavy armor mag builds) before the planned changes, if they do remove the sustain from altmer it would literally become a RP race.

zaria · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

They plan to take away Altmer's and Orc's sustain with reasoning "no race should have both dmg and sustain".
WHY IS KHAJIT UNTOUCHED THEN? Take away Khajit recovery passive as well. Khajit offers the best dps (in trial group) even now. And on top of that, it has some sustain. The very same case like Altmer or Orc.

Some as in 75, yes impresive
They get an small buff because stealt nerf, bit more resources i guess, dunmer get a buf, bosmer probably too,

ruikkarikun · February 2019

@ZOS_GinaBruno Altmers need sustain or they will be too weak!

Seraphayel · February 2019

We haven't even seen the changes and players are already complaining.

Darlon · February 2019

This topic is the exact reason Zos does not communicate a lot in advance....

zaria · February 2019

Darlon wrote: »

This topic is the exact reason Zos does not communicate a lot in advance....

They communicated too much. And no they can not remove the sustain without giving a serious lot to compensate, who will bring other issues like PvP balance.

And no this makes no sense, expected some minor tweaks. who was all who was needed outside of probably imperials.

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2019

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Altmers need sustain or they will be too weak!

Like Dunmers? ;-)

Tasear · February 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

Agreed. Same applies to Orc IMO.

I liked the DPS race changes.

Stam and magicka were pretty similar.

Breton for pure sustain. Altmer for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

Redguard or Bosmer for pure sustain. Orc for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

So now they're going to remove the sustain from the two middle-ground races.

Doesn't really make sense.

One step forward, two steps back ZOS.

Yeah orc was fine too and bosmer issue wasn't the race but other things that go along with it.

ZarkingFrued · February 2019

bardx86 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Agreed. Same applies to Orc IMO.

I liked the DPS race changes.

Stam and magicka were pretty similar.

Breton for pure sustain. Altmer for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

Redguard or Bosmer for pure sustain. Orc for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

So now they're going to remove the sustain from the two middle-ground races.

Doesn't really make sense.

One step forward, two steps back ZOS.

Sad thing is they pretty much had it nailed.

They really did. All they needed was to make some dark elf changes and maybe look at 20% speed from bosmer

ZarkingFrued · February 2019

@ZOS_GinaBruno you guys were so close to doing it the way people would have enjoyed..

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Agreed. Same applies to Orc IMO.

I liked the DPS race changes.

Stam and magicka were pretty similar.

Breton for pure sustain. Altmer for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

Redguard or Bosmer for pure sustain. Orc for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

So now they're going to remove the sustain from the two middle-ground races.

Doesn't really make sense.

One step forward, two steps back ZOS.

Sad thing is they pretty much had it nailed.

They really did. All they needed was to make some dark elf changes and maybe look at 20% speed from bosmer

Keep in mind that balance was never the goal. Their goal is to sell race change tokens and adventurer packs.

bardx86 · February 2019

Dracane wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Let's not kid ourselves, altmer is and even with PTS 4.3.0, was still literally choking other races out of any magicka viability because it had everything while the others didn't. Yes, sucks to be you because i assume every single magicka character you ever made is altmer, but you should have seen it coming when 90% of the PVE population is altmer.

Did you check any of the actual testing done? Of course not.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE&t=1s

Breton had better sustain and DPS. Khajiit had better DPS on 2/4 classes (templar and NB, the top 2 classes).

I don't care about your "tests". There are playstyles where having the insane base damage that altmer has will be worth more than any other races due to being able to control the fight length (PVP). This game is not just your PVE monkey rotations, there are use cases for high magicka damage burst in short durations, at which altmer will be the best.

Breton has higher base damage with berserker glyph.

No it doesn't because altmer can also use berserker glyph.

No, they can't, because they lack the sustain.

So this is the mental capacity of a PVE raider.

You lost an argument, so you resort to personal attacks. Nice.

I didn't lose it. If the fight lasts for 30 seconds and then i retreat and use a skill that regenerates my stats then i don't need breton sustain and I get the benefit of the most damaging race. I don't need your sustain. Now go cry in a corner about your monkey rotations getting ruined because ZOS doesn't want every race to be the same. Maybe one day you will l2p as well

So Altmer is becoming a poor version of Dunmer ? Dunmer having almost the same damage stats after today and a bunch of other usefull stats and you think this is fun ?

You could just admit that you are having a problem with Altmer and don't actually care for anything other than that. All your posts speak for themselves though.

This! Why would anyone choose altmer over dummer if the sustain is removed.

StarOfElyon · February 2019

I just want to know if my Altmer Templar is going to have the same or even less sustain now. If it's less, I'm BONED.

bardx86 · February 2019

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I just want to know if my Altmer Templar is going to have the same or even less sustain now. If it's less, I'm BONED.

And thats the bigger problem. Everyone on altmer is now going to lose sustain. It hits sorcs really hard. I just knew they were gonna nerf me again with this race balancing crap.

lassitershawn · February 2019

Imo Khajiit/Dunmer all damage no sustain, Altmer good damage a bit of sustain, Breton pure sustain. I don't have any biases really as I play Dunmer, Altmer, and Breton, I just thing this is the obvious way to balance the four. Seems like most people are saying more or less the same thing.

zaria · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Agreed. Same applies to Orc IMO.

I liked the DPS race changes.

Stam and magicka were pretty similar.

Breton for pure sustain. Altmer for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

Redguard or Bosmer for pure sustain. Orc for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

So now they're going to remove the sustain from the two middle-ground races.

Doesn't really make sense.

One step forward, two steps back ZOS.

Sad thing is they pretty much had it nailed.

They really did. All they needed was to make some dark elf changes and maybe look at 20% speed from bosmer

Keep in mind that balance was never the goal. Their goal is to sell race change tokens and adventurer packs.

Wrong they had to nerf Argonians to not expose the lizard people controlling Illuminati, the moon is an hoax.

Or they could dump some cool mounts and costumes into the crown stores. Also stuff like banker and merchants with other skins, more storage slots, maids and bards in houses.
So much cool or QoL stuff they could sold its not even fun.

zaria · February 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Altmers need sustain or they will be too weak!

Like Dunmers? ;-)

Or they get 75

Honestly both our races is in an Molotov–Ribbentrop pact, obvious enemies and yes both know it it will last 3 weeks

Lets watch each others backs while trying to extract. (no don't pull tail, this one can pull back)

Irylia · February 2019

Only way to balance this is with goblin racials

Kadoin · February 2019

Nooo! But my permablock ice staff build! I knew I should have kept my mouth shut!

Steelshiv · February 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everything was perfect. Some races needed some lifting here and there, the rest was fine. Altmer was a good example for this. I just don't get why they would nerf them now, despite them not even being the top dps race. Taking their sustain will likely put them even behind Dunmer, depending on how many further stats they get.

We just got ZOS'd. They trick us into thinking they're balancing the game, then they pull the rug out from under us.

They always do this, lol. That's why I never push nerfs because the solution is always worse and causes more of a lackluster game then not.

My thoughts EXACTLY as far as nerfs go.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can't help but think it's all because of Elsweyr. If not for that, these buffs to the Kajiit probably wouldn't happen.

Me and my tinfoil hat would agree with you except Altmer didn't get a buff with Summerset.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

Steelshiv wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everything was perfect. Some races needed some lifting here and there, the rest was fine. Altmer was a good example for this. I just don't get why they would nerf them now, despite them not even being the top dps race. Taking their sustain will likely put them even behind Dunmer, depending on how many further stats they get.

We just got ZOS'd. They trick us into thinking they're balancing the game, then they pull the rug out from under us.

They always do this, lol. That's why I never push nerfs because the solution is always worse and causes more of a lackluster game then not.

My thoughts EXACTLY as far as nerfs go.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can't help but think it's all because of Elsweyr. If not for that, these buffs to the Kajiit probably wouldn't happen.

Me and my tinfoil hat would agree with you except Altmer didn't get a buff with Summerset.

They weren't re-balancing racials at the time of Summerset.

Fr4ctalz · February 2019

There is only one fix for this, make symphony of blades self procable. Stop making sets for zerglings and give the small man/solo pvper a nod.

ezio45 · February 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everything was perfect. Some races needed some lifting here and there, the rest was fine. Altmer was a good example for this. I just don't get why they would nerf them now, despite them not even being the top dps race. Taking their sustain will likely put them even behind Dunmer, depending on how many further stats they get.

We just got ZOS'd. They trick us into thinking they're balancing the game, then they pull the rug out from under us.

They always do this, lol. That's why I never push nerfs because the solution is always worse and causes more of a lackluster game then not.

This ^^^^

Zos does ever do small nerfs.

ezio45 · February 2019

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Agreed. Same applies to Orc IMO.

I liked the DPS race changes.

Stam and magicka were pretty similar.

Breton for pure sustain. Altmer for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

Redguard or Bosmer for pure sustain. Orc for a compromise between sustain and damage. Khajiit or Dunmer for pure damage.

So now they're going to remove the sustain from the two middle-ground races.

Doesn't really make sense.

One step forward, two steps back ZOS.

Sad thing is they pretty much had it nailed.

They really did. All they needed was to make some dark elf changes and maybe look at 20% speed from bosmer

Right the racials were almost perfect week 1!!

All that needed to be done was MINOR tweaks. Dark elf need more competitive resources. Khajiit need a small tweak to it's numbers.

The only really big issue was woodelf needed some changes to be more than a speeding rolldodging niche build

But they completely changed everything in massive ways like zos always does and it ended up all f'd up... Why they refuse to make subtle is baffling... Hey guys we reduce this or buffed this by "x" GOES A LONG WAY

Darkelf they upped it be 800, great change. Completely made it competitive with the other classes.

Khajiit same thing small change relatively solid now

Most things in this game only need a slight change to there numbers... Not a complete rework and they have screwed up far more than they have EVER fixed by doing these massive changes