Thanks for allowing Skyshards to be brought to other characters. Thread closed.

karekiz · January 2019

Member when you had to physically find the quests? When you had to figure out where to go?

Good thing map quest is on PTS for those "explore" types right?

Reistr_the_Unbroken · January 2019

Grimm13 wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And we need to take away quest markers on the map! People should play the game and figure out what to do, not let the interface guide them!

Amazing that so many foolish players want to avoid progress on playing the game rather than the grind. They would rather keep all the grind they like/tolerate. They walked uphill to school in the snow and uphill back home! You should too!

Lets also get rid of mounts. And wayshrines. Walk everywhere you want. Also remove teleporting to a guildmate. You should learn all the waypoints (which you can't use of course) for each character! Keep immersion!

And start making people buy and stock arrows (in a limited stack of course - quivers can only hold so much after all) since it is unrealistic to have an unlimited supply!

I'm guessing you're 12 and never traveled using a map? Because at one point there was such a thing, and people usually used them to route between two points, and/or mark points of interest. Also, teleportation is pretty common in many genres. Same with horses, which are even pretty common in real life. Also, "bags of holding" or similar is pretty common in fantasy also . You know what is not? Instant end-game.

Nice try at grasping at straws to justify a removing a core part of character progression though.

You fail to detect the sarcasm that was in the post and choose to insult them calling them a child.

What sarcasm? All I’m seeing are empty words in a text.

AlnilamE · January 2019

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

While we are at it, why not just give us a "duplicate character" button that creates another character with the same skill points, completed quests, achievements, titles, ect.. Just let us pick the race and class.

Oh, and duplicate the gold in their inventory as well, grinding gold is less fun than grinding skyshards.

/sarcasm.

Whilst we're at keeping ridiculous time restraints on the most basic of things, why not:
Make CP specific to characters

Revert experience gain rates to what they originally were with no assisted exp.

Remove all new sources of power that have been added since the addition of said CP - new gear sets etc;

Remove all sources of increased Experience (training traits & potions)

Let's lock faction starting zones again until the respected Cadwells quests have been completed.

and so on...

/Sarcasm

Do you see how easy and unimpressive it is to whip out a /sarcasm.

The game has changed throughout the years to cater new players many, many times. It's about time it catered to the long term players. Not a lot to ask really, is it?

Because those things are already in the game? If you would rather the developers revert things that already exist, well, good luck with that. And you're "/sarcasm'ing the wrong person, I'd play even if they did make those revisions, I'm not here qq'ing about playing a role in a ROLE playing game.

My point still stands, if you want everything duplicated, then might as well go all in and duplicate gold/weapons/armor/ect... Hell, lets just give instant endgame.

Wait, those games already exist, they have their own genre, they're called FPS's.

Those things weren't in the game, they were implemented in general updates or as quality of life changes that assist new and old players in different ways (Exactly like what we're talking about in this thread)

The issue here isn't tied to one character, anyone could play one character without all of that stuff - Most of us did. We're talking about alt accounts in 2019 that are subjected to the same grinds we done 5 years ago.

But just so I've got this straight.. You're telling me that you'd grind your 810 CP; at the rates we did initially? without all of the help we have today (some of which were implemented thanks to these discussions by the way)?, then grind the Cadwells quest line until you unlocked all regions just so you had access to all skyshards?
To top that off, you'd repeat that same process on all of your 1-10 alts? - Yeah, ok, see you in a couple years...or five.

Well, considering that I've always been above the CP cap since it was implemented (barely at first, but more so now), the XP required for me to earn CP was never as low as it was at the beginning. And I'm ok with that, it allows newer players to catch up.

But I will note that when we switched to vet levels to CP, ZOS didn't say "Hey, you have one character at v16, so we are going to make all your characters v16". In fact they gave us a progression that was much longer than getting multiple characters to v16.

As for unlocking Cadwell's and the silver and gold zones, outside of a Master Crafter (or two), you really didn't need to unlock more than Silver. There are plenty of skill points to go around for combat builds.

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

While we are at it, why not just give us a "duplicate character" button that creates another character with the same skill points, completed quests, achievements, titles, ect.. Just let us pick the race and class.

Oh, and duplicate the gold in their inventory as well, grinding gold is less fun than grinding skyshards.

/sarcasm.

Whilst we're at keeping ridiculous time restraints on the most basic of things, why not:
Make CP specific to characters

Revert experience gain rates to what they originally were with no assisted exp.

Remove all new sources of power that have been added since the addition of said CP - new gear sets etc;

Remove all sources of increased Experience (training traits & potions)

Let's lock faction starting zones again until the respected Cadwells quests have been completed.

and so on...

/Sarcasm

Do you see how easy and unimpressive it is to whip out a /sarcasm.

The game has changed throughout the years to cater new players many, many times. It's about time it catered to the long term players. Not a lot to ask really, is it?

Because those things are already in the game? If you would rather the developers revert things that already exist, well, good luck with that. And you're "/sarcasm'ing the wrong person, I'd play even if they did make those revisions, I'm not here qq'ing about playing a role in a ROLE playing game.

My point still stands, if you want everything duplicated, then might as well go all in and duplicate gold/weapons/armor/ect... Hell, lets just give instant endgame.

Wait, those games already exist, they have their own genre, they're called FPS's.

Those things weren't in the game, they were implemented in general updates or as quality of life changes that assist new and old players in different ways (Exactly like what we're talking about in this thread)

The issue here isn't tied to one character, anyone could play one character without all of that stuff - Most of us did. We're talking about alt accounts in 2019 that are subjected to the same grinds we done 5 years ago.

But just so I've got this straight.. You're telling me that you'd grind your 810 CP; at the rates we did initially? without all of the help we have today (some of which were implemented thanks to these discussions by the way)?, then grind the Cadwells quest line until you unlocked all regions just so you had access to all skyshards?
To top that off, you'd repeat that same process on all of your 1-10 alts? - Yeah, ok, see you in a couple years...or five.

Another interesting comment about roles - What's the role attached to collectables?

Nobody wants anything duplicated, just account wide collectables.

I didn't really want to touch your 'duplication' chat as it's pretty embarrassing but let's do it.

All you need to do to have 'duplicate' gear across multiple toons is either get your master crafter to make a new set of the same gear or put your existing gear in the bank and retrieve it on another account and with that... what are you on about?

I've said in an earlier post that a lot of the reasoning behind most of the 'no' posts in here are either misguided or just completely inaccurate. Yours is unfortunately both.

Yes, I would, just like I am currently grinding skyshards on my alts.

And you want to talk about misguided or inaccurate, since the gear issue is THAT easy, please, tell me how a master crafter is to craft dropped sets? And as far as banking the existing gear, well, that takes time, and duplicating it would be a "QOL enhancement" as we wouldn't need to swap gear each time we want to play a character, so why not if you want to get rid of unnecessary time investments? You already have it, swapping it via bank is all it would take, so why not duplicate it since you want to get rid of redundant actions?

Such a stupid argument. Dropped sets are content driven.. we're asking for collectables to be account wide as they are time driven. You're not talking to me about the same thing that everyone else is talking about.

So to summarise: Once again, you are misguided.

Skill points are also content driven. Quests are content. Dungeons are content. PvP is content. Skyshards are also part of content (exploration and achievement hunting).

You are the one choosing the content that's most boring to you because you consider it the most efficient. That's entirely on you.

FlopsyPrince · January 2019

Odnoc wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And we need to take away quest markers on the map! People should play the game and figure out what to do, not let the interface guide them!

Amazing that so many foolish players want to avoid progress on playing the game rather than the grind. They would rather keep all the grind they like/tolerate. They walked uphill to school in the snow and uphill back home! You should too!

Lets also get rid of mounts. And wayshrines. Walk everywhere you want. Also remove teleporting to a guildmate. You should learn all the waypoints (which you can't use of course) for each character! Keep immersion!

And start making people buy and stock arrows (in a limited stack of course - quivers can only hold so much after all) since it is unrealistic to have an unlimited supply!

I'm guessing you're 12 and never traveled using a map? Because at one point there was such a thing, and people usually used them to route between two points, and/or mark points of interest. Also, teleportation is pretty common in many genres. Same with horses, which are even pretty common in real life. Also, "bags of holding" or similar is pretty common in fantasy also . You know what is not? Instant end-game.

Nice try at grasping at straws to justify a removing a core part of character progression though.

Must be proud being 14!

I am well over 12, thank you. I am just noting the hypocrisy of claiming we have to do mundane stuff like run for skyshards instead of playing the game for the quests. I would rather be questing (not just picking up a random one at some skyshard dungeons) on new characters. Quite unimmersive to have to run with my computer having a browser open with the location of the skyshards and then being forced to do that to advance crafting on my alts.

Grow up yourself a bit!

FlopsyPrince · January 2019

SugaComa wrote: »

This means players can choose to play their way ... The caveat would be that to creat a linked character you must have completed all the following

All skyshards collected
All location found
All wayshrine unlocked
Only for base game

All the faction story lines completed.
Both fighter and mages guild quest lines completed and the harbourage quest line

All skill lines fully unlocked

Make it able to be done on multiple characters and it wouldn't be bad. Why can I only play my pet sorc until I achieve all those? I am working toward it, but the game will likely be gone by the time I finish everything.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Except that if you get account-wide skyshards, the next request will be to have characters leveled to 50 as soon as you've done it once.

You could always get the skyshards/skillpoints first and then worry about getting to 50 after, if you are not there yet.

And I get that doing the same thing 15 times will get boring. But the happy medium has to be somewhere between doing it only once and doing it 15 times.

Also, I'm waiting to hear of an MMORPG that does offer the kind of account-wide powering that you are asking for.

Who said that? I don't mind leveling alts. What annoys me is repeating some things that don't add value. Leveling crafting on multiple toons is a bit annoying too, but that doesn't take up as much gameplay time, so I can focus on questing and such while doing that. Doing skyshard hunts does take away from playing many quest lines.

Also keep in mind that finishing quest lines still has merit as some do give skill points, so skyshards are only part of that.

Soundles1990 wrote: »

Skyshards, lorebooks and achievements should ne account wide. This was asked for years already but ZOS is ignoring our wishes...

I stumble on lorebooks now. It would definitely be nice to not have to make that another distraction from questing and other game playing. Do something to minimize the impact on the Mages guild stuff if you must, but why require me to find all the other ones on each alt?

Odnoc · February 2019

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

While we are at it, why not just give us a "duplicate character" button that creates another character with the same skill points, completed quests, achievements, titles, ect.. Just let us pick the race and class.

Oh, and duplicate the gold in their inventory as well, grinding gold is less fun than grinding skyshards.

/sarcasm.

Whilst we're at keeping ridiculous time restraints on the most basic of things, why not:
Make CP specific to characters

Revert experience gain rates to what they originally were with no assisted exp.

Remove all new sources of power that have been added since the addition of said CP - new gear sets etc;

Remove all sources of increased Experience (training traits & potions)

Let's lock faction starting zones again until the respected Cadwells quests have been completed.

and so on...

/Sarcasm

Do you see how easy and unimpressive it is to whip out a /sarcasm.

The game has changed throughout the years to cater new players many, many times. It's about time it catered to the long term players. Not a lot to ask really, is it?

Because those things are already in the game? If you would rather the developers revert things that already exist, well, good luck with that. And you're "/sarcasm'ing the wrong person, I'd play even if they did make those revisions, I'm not here qq'ing about playing a role in a ROLE playing game.

My point still stands, if you want everything duplicated, then might as well go all in and duplicate gold/weapons/armor/ect... Hell, lets just give instant endgame.

Wait, those games already exist, they have their own genre, they're called FPS's.

Those things weren't in the game, they were implemented in general updates or as quality of life changes that assist new and old players in different ways (Exactly like what we're talking about in this thread)

The issue here isn't tied to one character, anyone could play one character without all of that stuff - Most of us did. We're talking about alt accounts in 2019 that are subjected to the same grinds we done 5 years ago.

But just so I've got this straight.. You're telling me that you'd grind your 810 CP; at the rates we did initially? without all of the help we have today (some of which were implemented thanks to these discussions by the way)?, then grind the Cadwells quest line until you unlocked all regions just so you had access to all skyshards?
To top that off, you'd repeat that same process on all of your 1-10 alts? - Yeah, ok, see you in a couple years...or five.

Another interesting comment about roles - What's the role attached to collectables?

Nobody wants anything duplicated, just account wide collectables.

I didn't really want to touch your 'duplication' chat as it's pretty embarrassing but let's do it.

All you need to do to have 'duplicate' gear across multiple toons is either get your master crafter to make a new set of the same gear or put your existing gear in the bank and retrieve it on another account and with that... what are you on about?

I've said in an earlier post that a lot of the reasoning behind most of the 'no' posts in here are either misguided or just completely inaccurate. Yours is unfortunately both.

Yes, I would, just like I am currently grinding skyshards on my alts.

And you want to talk about misguided or inaccurate, since the gear issue is THAT easy, please, tell me how a master crafter is to craft dropped sets? And as far as banking the existing gear, well, that takes time, and duplicating it would be a "QOL enhancement" as we wouldn't need to swap gear each time we want to play a character, so why not if you want to get rid of unnecessary time investments? You already have it, swapping it via bank is all it would take, so why not duplicate it since you want to get rid of redundant actions?

Such a stupid argument. Dropped sets are content driven.. we're asking for collectables to be account wide as they are time driven. You're not talking to me about the same thing that everyone else is talking about.

So to summarise: Once again, you are misguided.

Stupid argument? Dropped sets are just as "time driven" (if that is even a thing) as skyshards... I guess you must be the lucky one that gets what they want first drop every time...

And skyshards aren't content driven? And you're calling me misguided? I don't think I should even need to touch on this, but lets see, what content comes from skyshards...

Skill points
Achievements
Exploration
Character development
Character progression
Filling in your role

Sounds like content to me...

Odnoc · February 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And we need to take away quest markers on the map! People should play the game and figure out what to do, not let the interface guide them!

Amazing that so many foolish players want to avoid progress on playing the game rather than the grind. They would rather keep all the grind they like/tolerate. They walked uphill to school in the snow and uphill back home! You should too!

Lets also get rid of mounts. And wayshrines. Walk everywhere you want. Also remove teleporting to a guildmate. You should learn all the waypoints (which you can't use of course) for each character! Keep immersion!

And start making people buy and stock arrows (in a limited stack of course - quivers can only hold so much after all) since it is unrealistic to have an unlimited supply!

I'm guessing you're 12 and never traveled using a map? Because at one point there was such a thing, and people usually used them to route between two points, and/or mark points of interest. Also, teleportation is pretty common in many genres. Same with horses, which are even pretty common in real life. Also, "bags of holding" or similar is pretty common in fantasy also . You know what is not? Instant end-game.

Nice try at grasping at straws to justify a removing a core part of character progression though.

Must be proud being 14!

I am well over 12, thank you. I am just noting the hypocrisy of claiming we have to do mundane stuff like run for skyshards instead of playing the game for the quests. I would rather be questing (not just picking up a random one at some skyshard dungeons) on new characters. Quite unimmersive to have to run with my computer having a browser open with the location of the skyshards and then being forced to do that to advance crafting on my alts.

Grow up yourself a bit!

Quite unimmersive being forced to run the same dungeon X number of times, killing the same boss X number of times to get one drop. Why don't we just have all the gear given to us as well.

Is it fun grinding skyshards? No. Something I enjoy? Not one bit. I'd much rather be able to create 10 alts and craft right away to get bonus rewards during events and such. But hey, as a grown up, I realize things aren't just handed to you, so instead of trying to get things handed to me, I deal with it, like most grown up people do.

idk · February 2019

Commancho wrote: »

Add alternative option when creating new character - Unlock account wide achievements <skyshards, guilds etc> - Yes/No.
If players picks yes, then skillpoints/specific skill lines will become available at lvl 50 - untill that they will remain disabled.

Upside - people with multiple characters can avoid tedious grind.
Downside - getting to lvl 50 will be slightly more difficult, but doable.

It would not be an option if you really think about it. It would also likely be a crown store item and per character fi Zos every did consider such a thing.

BNOC · February 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

But I will note that when we switched to vet levels to CP, ZOS didn't say "Hey, you have one character at v16, so we are going to make all your characters v16". In fact they gave us a progression that was much longer than getting multiple characters to v16.

As for unlocking Cadwell's and the silver and gold zones, outside of a Master Crafter (or two), you really didn't need to unlock more than Silver. There are plenty of skill points to go around for combat builds.

Skill points are also content driven. Quests are content. Dungeons are content. PvP is content. Skyshards are also part of content (exploration and achievement hunting).

1. Yeah V ranks were long and the initial implementation of CP was longer, but once you had done it once, you never had to again..now I can now max a character in 2 hours. I've done my skyshards more than once already why doesn't that follow the pattern.

2. I never unlocked more than silver anyway and originally only completed up to silver because content was locked behind it. Now it's not and I never need to do any quests - but you're saying we only need to do 2 regions worth of quests to have enough SP. That's what people don't want to be forced into doing 10 times over.

3. Quests are content driven, dungeons are, pvp is. Skyshards are just run and grab - You're implying that everyone considers running from point a to point b to point c (all whilst staring at a map on your computer, phone or whatever) content; That ain't content to me.

If you had the same options: what's your issue with me being able to toggle skyshards on on a new character? That's what I really don't understand.

Odnoc wrote: »

Stupid argument? Dropped sets are just as "time driven" (if that is even a thing) as skyshards... I guess you must be the lucky one that gets what they want first drop every time...

And skyshards aren't content driven? And you're calling me misguided? I don't think I should even need to touch on this, but lets see, what content comes from skyshards...
Skill points

Achievements

Exploration

Character development

Character progression

Filling in your role

Sounds like content to me...

Wait.. what? I have to have a basic understanding of game and class mechanics to farm overland.
For a full 5 piece you're required to participate in various content (delves for X, world bosses for Y, dolmens for Z) or as an alternative, have to go and make the gold to buy these things from another player.
I don't know what drop rate has got to do with it but yes, people do kick off when they're farming any specific item for a long time because it becomes very tedious in just the same way.

To summarise:

If you don't know how to play the game, you cannot farm sets, you will die (People still celebrate killing a world boss alone).
Anyone can blindly follow markers on an external map and click a glowing pillar.
Some players farm gear for fun or to use it and some for gold but they don't have to
Most players have to farm skyshards just to be able to play with any effect.

Skyshards aren't content driven to me, no. Skyshards require nothing but time; no knowledge of the games mechanics, no knowledge of your class or anything else. You only need to know how to hold forwards, turn and press pickup.

If that's your list of reasons why skyshards are 'content driven to you and not based entirely on time then good for you, I'm not trying to take that away from you - Nobody is.

Regardless, it's not content to me and once again, that's why we're discussing a toggle - That way you can keep running from points a-b exploring the same map you've explored 14 times before to "fill in your role", whatever that means, or to get an achievement you've already got.

I on the other hand will be able to just get on with participating in the multiplayer endgame without massive time sinks of boredom and perfect repetition. Now we're both happy!

But I'm going to guess, you're not happy with that? So I ask the same as I did above: If you had the same options: what's your issue with me being able to toggle skyshards on on a new character? What's the actual issue?

Sheezabeast · February 2019

BNOC wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

But I will note that when we switched to vet levels to CP, ZOS didn't say "Hey, you have one character at v16, so we are going to make all your characters v16". In fact they gave us a progression that was much longer than getting multiple characters to v16.

As for unlocking Cadwell's and the silver and gold zones, outside of a Master Crafter (or two), you really didn't need to unlock more than Silver. There are plenty of skill points to go around for combat builds.

Skill points are also content driven. Quests are content. Dungeons are content. PvP is content. Skyshards are also part of content (exploration and achievement hunting).

1. Yeah V ranks were long and the initial implementation of CP was longer, but once you had done it once, you never had to again..now I can now max a character in 2 hours. I've done my skyshards more than once already why doesn't that follow the pattern.

2. I never unlocked more than silver anyway and originally only completed up to silver because content was locked behind it. Now it's not and I never need to do any quests - but you're saying we only need to do 2 regions worth of quests to have enough SP. That's what people don't want to be forced into doing 10 times over.

3. Quests are content driven, dungeons are, pvp is. Skyshards are just run and grab - You're implying that everyone considers running from point a to point b to point c (all whilst staring at a map on your computer, phone or whatever) content; That ain't content to me.

If you had the same options: what's your issue with me being able to toggle skyshards on on a new character? That's what I really don't understand.

Odnoc wrote: »

Stupid argument? Dropped sets are just as "time driven" (if that is even a thing) as skyshards... I guess you must be the lucky one that gets what they want first drop every time...

And skyshards aren't content driven? And you're calling me misguided? I don't think I should even need to touch on this, but lets see, what content comes from skyshards...
Skill points

Achievements

Exploration

Character development

Character progression

Filling in your role

Sounds like content to me...

Wait.. what? I have to have a basic understanding of game and class mechanics to farm overland.
For a full 5 piece you're required to participate in various content (delves for X, world bosses for Y, dolmens for Z) or as an alternative, have to go and make the gold to buy these things from another player.
I don't know what drop rate has got to do with it but yes, people do kick off when they're farming any specific item for a long time because it becomes very tedious in just the same way.

To summarise:
If you don't know how to play the game, you cannot farm sets, you will die (People still celebrate killing a world boss alone).

Anyone can blindly follow markers on an external map and click a glowing pillar.

Some players farm gear for fun or to use it and some for gold but they don't have to

Most players have to farm skyshards just to be able to play with any effect.

Skyshards aren't content driven to me, no. Skyshards require nothing but time; no knowledge of the games mechanics, no knowledge of your class or anything else. You only need to know how to hold forwards, turn and press pickup.

If that's your list of reasons why skyshards are 'content driven to you and not based entirely on time then good for you, I'm not trying to take that away from you - Nobody is.

Regardless, it's not content to me and once again, that's why we're discussing a toggle - That way you can keep running from points a-b exploring the same map you've explored 14 times before to "fill in your role", whatever that means, or to get an achievement you've already got.

I on the other hand will be able to just get on with participating in the multiplayer endgame without massive time sinks of boredom and perfect repetition. Now we're both happy!

But I'm going to guess, you're not happy with that? So I ask the same as I did above: If you had the same options: what's your issue with me being able to toggle skyshards on on a new character? What's the actual issue?

Consider the effect this will have on content released from zos. With players not motivated to go out and get shards in dungeons and locales around the lands, zos won’t have to fully flesh out a zone, the art and environment created will likely decrease in quality if zos has no way to pull a large amount of players into their new content. Wasted assets, and a decline in quality and quantity. The do it once and done mentality breaks down in this game because you did not do it as the account holder, your character you play does it. It is an achievement that is on the microcosm not macrocosm level. Thus should be done per character as each is a separate player experience.

The suggestion of a toggle and your objection to the people saying no, it is really not a fair or rational thing to use as a defense. If you build a new on-ramp for traffic, you are not more virtuous for going the long way because you enjoy the scenic route, you are wasting gas and wearing down your car as opposed to everyone else hopping on for convenience. Why wouldn’t you take the shortest quickest route if it was perceived as more effective? Your toggle suggestion offers nothing to the other side of the argument other than the attitude of if you don’t like it don’t do it, which is what your main argument for account wide shards, and you don’t take into account the player base as a whole outside of what you want how you want it when you want it.

I want console users to have their new zone guides to show books and shards. That is a compromise that still helps and offers more health to the overall game.

BNOC · February 2019

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Consider the effect this will have on content released from zos. With players not motivated to go out and get shards in dungeons and locales around the lands, zos won’t have to fully flesh out a zone, the art and environment created will likely decrease in quality if zos has no way to pull a large amount of players into their new content. Wasted assets, and a decline in quality and quantity. The do it once and done mentality breaks down in this game because you did not do it as the account holder, your character you play does it. It is an achievement that is on the microcosm not macrocosm level. Thus should be done per character as each is a separate player experience.

Yes they will because you still need to collect them initially, nobody is asking for anything they haven't acquired.

Considering that: I dare say at the minute you could argue that I a lot of vets already don't bother collecting new skyshards because they just don't need them at this point.
I personally have never bothered with them on my main in any new map since dark brotherhood as I have enough. If I needed them, I'd go get them.
Also fair to mention that these content drops are mostly locked behind a pay wall in one way or another so userbase is definitely smaller than those that visit original maps - So with all of that, why has the art and environment arguably got better in those places? I would guess that's down to natural progression of tech and not tied to masses flooding the area for collectables.

Each may be a separate player experience to an RPer and again, nobody is trying to take that away. But for me, if I'm fighting adds or doing a quest, I'm fighting adds or doing a quest, there's no variance in that to me.

If we say game is the macrocosm then I the user, not character am the microcosm, no? If ZOS were to ask for feedback for example, I would give it once, not once for each of my characters - Same with any feedback, poll, opinion or whatever. Not many people make unique decisions based on their individual characters. A lot of us don't play that way either.

I don't see the separate experience in repetition, it's repetition. What's different about me walking up to the same skyshard 100 times and pressing A? I went there with the same goal in mind, achieved it in exactly the same way and nothing unique about my character made that a different experience and never will.

Sheezabeast wrote: »

The suggestion of a toggle and your objection to the people saying no, it is really not a fair or rational thing to use as a defense. If you build a new on-ramp for traffic, you are not more virtuous for going the long way because you enjoy the scenic route, you are wasting gas and wearing down your car as opposed to everyone else hopping on for convenience. Why wouldn’t you take the shortest quickest route if it was perceived as more effective? Your toggle suggestion offers nothing to the other side of the argument other than the attitude of if you don’t like it don’t do it, which is what your main argument for account wide shards, and you don’t take into account the player base as a whole outside of what you want how you want it when you want it.

I want console users to have their new zone guides to show books and shards. That is a compromise that still helps and offers more health to the overall game.

No and it has nothing to do with virtue. But at least you now have the option which is what most people seem to be worrying about:

If you want to see and enjoy the scenery at the expense of more time and cost, crack on.
If you want to get where you're going quicker so you can focus on something you enjoy at the expense of not seeing the sights, crack on.

If you're the type to check the scenery out every day, what's your problem with me taking the short route? I don't care that you want to go and look at all of the scenery. I went that way before and guess what, it hasn't changed.

What it boils down to in your argument is this: You guys that love the scenic route heard about the new road that could easily be built, saving many commuters time and money. Unfortunately, you don't want to drive that way so are vehemently against it's construction because if you don't want it, those that do shouldn't have it, right?

Whilst you're on your way home through the scenic route, look out for the person doing the same thing, just on a pedal bike and ask who's choice that was and then why you didn't make the same one.

Who's not taking the wider player base into account? You guys.

Edit: Agree with any qol updates r.e. console; but the fact remains we're still taking many of those long routes that you can optionally shorten on PC.

xxthir13enxx · February 2019

Sheezabeast wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

But I will note that when we switched to vet levels to CP, ZOS didn't say "Hey, you have one character at v16, so we are going to make all your characters v16". In fact they gave us a progression that was much longer than getting multiple characters to v16.

As for unlocking Cadwell's and the silver and gold zones, outside of a Master Crafter (or two), you really didn't need to unlock more than Silver. There are plenty of skill points to go around for combat builds.

Skill points are also content driven. Quests are content. Dungeons are content. PvP is content. Skyshards are also part of content (exploration and achievement hunting).

1. Yeah V ranks were long and the initial implementation of CP was longer, but once you had done it once, you never had to again..now I can now max a character in 2 hours. I've done my skyshards more than once already why doesn't that follow the pattern.

2. I never unlocked more than silver anyway and originally only completed up to silver because content was locked behind it. Now it's not and I never need to do any quests - but you're saying we only need to do 2 regions worth of quests to have enough SP. That's what people don't want to be forced into doing 10 times over.

3. Quests are content driven, dungeons are, pvp is. Skyshards are just run and grab - You're implying that everyone considers running from point a to point b to point c (all whilst staring at a map on your computer, phone or whatever) content; That ain't content to me.

If you had the same options: what's your issue with me being able to toggle skyshards on on a new character? That's what I really don't understand.

Odnoc wrote: »

Stupid argument? Dropped sets are just as "time driven" (if that is even a thing) as skyshards... I guess you must be the lucky one that gets what they want first drop every time...

And skyshards aren't content driven? And you're calling me misguided? I don't think I should even need to touch on this, but lets see, what content comes from skyshards...
Skill points

Achievements

Exploration

Character development

Character progression

Filling in your role

Sounds like content to me...

Wait.. what? I have to have a basic understanding of game and class mechanics to farm overland.
For a full 5 piece you're required to participate in various content (delves for X, world bosses for Y, dolmens for Z) or as an alternative, have to go and make the gold to buy these things from another player.
I don't know what drop rate has got to do with it but yes, people do kick off when they're farming any specific item for a long time because it becomes very tedious in just the same way.

To summarise:
If you don't know how to play the game, you cannot farm sets, you will die (People still celebrate killing a world boss alone).

Anyone can blindly follow markers on an external map and click a glowing pillar.

Some players farm gear for fun or to use it and some for gold but they don't have to

Most players have to farm skyshards just to be able to play with any effect.

Skyshards aren't content driven to me, no. Skyshards require nothing but time; no knowledge of the games mechanics, no knowledge of your class or anything else. You only need to know how to hold forwards, turn and press pickup.

If that's your list of reasons why skyshards are 'content driven to you and not based entirely on time then good for you, I'm not trying to take that away from you - Nobody is.

Regardless, it's not content to me and once again, that's why we're discussing a toggle - That way you can keep running from points a-b exploring the same map you've explored 14 times before to "fill in your role", whatever that means, or to get an achievement you've already got.

I on the other hand will be able to just get on with participating in the multiplayer endgame without massive time sinks of boredom and perfect repetition. Now we're both happy!

But I'm going to guess, you're not happy with that? So I ask the same as I did above: If you had the same options: what's your issue with me being able to toggle skyshards on on a new character? What's the actual issue?

Consider the effect this will have on content released from zos. With players not motivated to go out and get shards in dungeons and locales around the lands, zos won’t have to fully flesh out a zone, the art and environment created will likely decrease in quality if zos has no way to pull a large amount of players into their new content. Wasted assets, and a decline in quality and quantity. The do it once and done mentality breaks down in this game because you did not do it as the account holder, your character you play does it. It is an achievement that is on the microcosm not macrocosm level. Thus should be done per character as each is a separate player experience.

The suggestion of a toggle and your objection to the people saying no, it is really not a fair or rational thing to use as a defense. If you build a new on-ramp for traffic, you are not more virtuous for going the long way because you enjoy the scenic route, you are wasting gas and wearing down your car as opposed to everyone else hopping on for convenience. Why wouldn’t you take the shortest quickest route if it was perceived as more effective? Your toggle suggestion offers nothing to the other side of the argument other than the attitude of if you don’t like it don’t do it, which is what your main argument for account wide shards, and you don’t take into account the player base as a whole outside of what you want how you want it when you want it.

I want console users to have their new zone guides to show books and shards. That is a compromise that still helps and offers more health to the overall game.

Lmao exactly so stop throwing up roadblocks and Forcing people to run around the map wasting gas!

Sirona_Starr · February 2019

Eidetic Memory lorebooks absolute YES for account wide - so many books locked behind "cannot go there anymore" places, especially in Summerset :P

FlopsyPrince · February 2019

Odnoc wrote: »

Is it fun grinding skyshards? No. Something I enjoy? Not one bit. I'd much rather be able to create 10 alts and craft right away to get bonus rewards during events and such. But hey, as a grown up, I realize things aren't just handed to you, so instead of trying to get things handed to me, I deal with it, like most grown up people do.

I don't think I have repeated a single dungeon yet, most likely because I have only run a couple so far. The delves I do more than once are either the ones for the Summerset dailies or finding the skyshard on another character.

Your playstyle does not negate my point. You do lots of dungeons, not open world questing. You are going to get a lot of repetition doing that. Run more quests if you want variety.

I do not want to run the same maps so many times.

Ironically, any change here will likely happen long after I have no use for it. I am already finding too many skyshards on too many toons. A couple might left for a while, but I will have gone through most areas multiple times the way things are heading. Certainly not letting me quest in the game, keeping me running around for the skyshards instead.

Maura_Neysa · February 2019

NO

It would just perpetuate the constant cancer swapping that happens anyway every patch. At least now, you have to have worked several times to fully build out a character. Instead of every single potato instantly running the new cancer build

idk · February 2019

BNOC wrote: »

Odnoc wrote: »

Stupid argument? Dropped sets are just as "time driven" (if that is even a thing) as skyshards... I guess you must be the lucky one that gets what they want first drop every time...

And skyshards aren't content driven? And you're calling me misguided? I don't think I should even need to touch on this, but lets see, what content comes from skyshards...
Skill points

Achievements

Exploration

Character development

Character progression

Filling in your role

Sounds like content to me...

Wait.. what? I have to have a basic understanding of game and class mechanics to farm overland.
For a full 5 piece you're required to participate in various content (delves for X, world bosses for Y, dolmens for Z) or as an alternative, have to go and make the gold to buy these things from another player.
I don't know what drop rate has got to do with it but yes, people do kick off when they're farming any specific item for a long time because it becomes very tedious in just the same way.

It seems you are putting words in their mouth. In what you quoted they never said anything about overland sets specifically. you had to add that to make your argument even possible. It shows a weak argument when one must twist the words of another to make it look like they are making a point.

Tetrafy · February 2019

alison22000 wrote: »

There is one simple Solition to this argument. It is primarily PC and XBox that get the home field advantage here with add ons. Simply allowing them to collect all these in a day.

If PC and XBox is so against Ps4 from having account wide unlocked collections, such as Skyshards and lore books. Then it’s equally fair to remove the add on that allows them to exploit the game at a much faster rate.

It takes ps4 a week or more depending on other duties just to get all shards. We also need to rely on old info showing wrong locations and must work it out alone anyway. The same with lorebooks. But we would usually need greater than a week.

Is it fair that PC and Xbox can use an add on to locate and grab these at a surprising rate ? Bit unfair to allow ps4 to have any kind of advantage. As it was suggested. A toggle function for each of the 2 can be added to allow the user to decide how they want to receive and only once they reach level 50.

We can debate what is fair all year long. Microsoft users get a great range of add ons to help with a massive variety of what ps4 players call a true grind. Remove add ons completely and then they understand ps4 gameplay. It is fair for ps4 to have some type of account wide viewing of locations collected or items collected in total.

Xbox gets add ons?

Tetrafy · February 2019

Iluvrien wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Yes yes yes...everyone knows...nobody enjoys watching a rerun of a show they didn’t enjoy watching the first time...watching boring tv makes you look forward to the commercials...the more bored people get with the programs...the more likely it is they start changing the channel.

So why are you watching a channel filled with shows you don't enjoy?

if there is no better channels at all which suits me then I m or forced to watch just this until I finally decide to switch an operator with better channels

So you are intentionally playing a game which you know doesn't suit you... and them trying to force changes so that it does suit you... even though the people who are happy with it, as is, are saying they want to keep it the way they enjoy it.

How do you think the meta changes in pvp?

Tetrafy · February 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

It's like you folks only want to play the game through once but have multiple characters all at that max level with all skills and achievements.

You still have to level to 50 and level skill lines. So? What do you mean?

Except that if you get account-wide skyshards, the next request will be to have characters leveled to 50 as soon as you've done it once.

You could always get the skyshards/skillpoints first and then worry about getting to 50 after, if you are not there yet.

And I get that doing the same thing 15 times will get boring. But the happy medium has to be somewhere between doing it only once and doing it 15 times.

Also, I'm waiting to hear of an MMORPG that does offer the kind of account-wide powering that you are asking for.

Sure FFXIV and WOW top two MMOs on the market. Also SWOTOR did after they realized how terrible the grind was.

NoMoreChillies · February 2019

People against other players having a toggle for skyshards and mount training is just being selfish. It does not affect you in any way/shape/form.

Toggle on.
Toggle off.

Wasn't ZOS motto "Play how you want"?

Skwor · February 2019

Still a big FAT NO on this.

mxxo · February 2019

Skwor wrote: »

Still a big FAT NO on this.

This.

Xruptor · February 2019

To be honest all i want on consoles is to be able to see lorebooks and skyshards on the map. I don't care if its shared or not. I just want the stuff addons give on console. A filter option on the map would be nice.

Iluvrien · February 2019

Tetrafy wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Yes yes yes...everyone knows...nobody enjoys watching a rerun of a show they didn’t enjoy watching the first time...watching boring tv makes you look forward to the commercials...the more bored people get with the programs...the more likely it is they start changing the channel.

So why are you watching a channel filled with shows you don't enjoy?

if there is no better channels at all which suits me then I m or forced to watch just this until I finally decide to switch an operator with better channels

So you are intentionally playing a game which you know doesn't suit you... and them trying to force changes so that it does suit you... even though the people who are happy with it, as is, are saying they want to keep it the way they enjoy it.

How do you think the meta changes in pvp?

What you do think the meta in pvp has to do with the issue under debate?

FlopsyPrince · February 2019

mxxo wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Still a big FAT NO on this.

This.

No solid argument, just a demand.

Tetrafy wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Also, I'm waiting to hear of an MMORPG that does offer the kind of account-wide powering that you are asking for.

Sure FFXIV and WOW top two MMOs on the market. Also SWOTOR did after they realized how terrible the grind was.

But those aren't real MMOs! Right?

Tetrafy · February 2019

Iluvrien wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Yes yes yes...everyone knows...nobody enjoys watching a rerun of a show they didn’t enjoy watching the first time...watching boring tv makes you look forward to the commercials...the more bored people get with the programs...the more likely it is they start changing the channel.

So why are you watching a channel filled with shows you don't enjoy?

if there is no better channels at all which suits me then I m or forced to watch just this until I finally decide to switch an operator with better channels

So you are intentionally playing a game which you know doesn't suit you... and them trying to force changes so that it does suit you... even though the people who are happy with it, as is, are saying they want to keep it the way they enjoy it.

How do you think the meta changes in pvp?

What you do think the meta in pvp has to do with the issue under debate?

It doesn't but changes happen because people come on here and make suggestions to make it more enjoyable. Hence not exactly the same but in relation.

Tetrafy · February 2019

Xruptor wrote: »

To be honest all i want on consoles is to be able to see lorebooks and skyshards on the map. I don't care if its shared or not. I just want the stuff addons give on console. A filter option on the map would be nice.

Even this would be a good start.

Aethereal'Golden · February 2019

I'd be happy if style books were account wide. You don't have to pay for skyshards, but motifs are way too expensive to be collected for achievement on each character.

Wolfpaw · February 2019

Juju_beans wrote: »

It's like you folks only want to play the game through once but have multiple characters all at that max level with all skills and achievements.

Yup, exactly...April 4, 2014 was the release....nothing in the world that even remotely interests me, because I have done it. It's not like the world changes in ESO outside of some xpac small zone/island.

Tandor · February 2019

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Still a big FAT NO on this.

This.

No solid argument, just a demand.

It's the people demanding change that lack a solid argument. All we've had after 22 pages is "I've done it once to get a maxed character, now I want maxed characters without having to do it again" which is about as far from a solid argument as you can get.