Tonturri wrote: »

Unfortunately, the pros outweigh the cons of implementing a bunch of account-wide stuff. It just means 'vets' in low level pvp have even more tools to make 1-50 bgs (even more of) a living hell for people leveling up. However, I am definitely behind giving console some much-needed UI/QoL help...tbh I don't know how you all survive xD I don't think I could do it. Addons cover a multitude of sins, and it's time ZOS realized how much help their game is getting from the player addon devs.

It's a struggle. I guess I'm so used to have just one character on another mmo and everything is connected. Msq one time, side missions once chracter wides achievments hunting logs everything. Having everything seperate makes no sense to me.

Ya tonight i would vote yes

Ummm....no.

Why not just ask for immediate level 50 alts once you get your main character to max level?

Leocaran wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This highlights the problem that people with no interest in normal PvE content are lobbying to change the way PvE operates.

Oh, please, stop with this nonsense. Skyshards, mage and psijic skilline grinding is not even PvE content. It's mindless collecting, there's literally no environment to be against. Psijic have a quest for it only nominally.

Do you collect these things in a vacuum? Or do you travel through Tamriel to collect them?

It's a rhetorical question. You are "literally" in the environment to collect these things. And you suggest that other people are talking nonsense... ironic.

That you don't value these things as content? All well and good. Your choice. Whatever floats your boat. Funny thing is though, you don't get to decide for other people.

I consider these things content because they force me to explore the world. There are multiple spawning locations for each of the lorebooks. I have made it an in-game goal of mine to track them all down. I've been playing since PC early access and I still haven't finished.

Do I think that the way that I view lorebooks should apply to anyone else? Oh, dear Azura no.

Please do us all a favour and treat your own opinions and value judgements the same way.

Leocaran wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Do you collect these things in a vacuum? Or do you travel through Tamriel to collect them?

It's a rhetorical question. You are "literally" in the environment to collect these things. And you suggest that other people are talking nonsense... ironic.

'In' doesn't mean 'versus' or 'against'. And yes, he was talking nonsense and grossly distorted facts when he called it 'normal PvE'. No it's not 'normal', especially when you do it for n-th time.
Even if you consider exploring, it should be voluntary to be anything close to 'normal'. Which is not the case.

In what incarnation of this game is the environment that you are "in" not act "against" or "versus" you?

Any time I encounter a active entity outside a major settlement (where there tend to be few, but not zero, skyshards) it is trying to do damage to my character. How many Alits help carry your stuff? How many Kagouti watch quietly as you pass?

Any time you are not in a PvP area (BGs, Cyrodiil, etc.) or in a sanctuary location then you are in PvE. The placement of lorebooks and skyshards is usually such that you are presented with geographical or flora/fauna based obstacles to their collection. It is PvE content.

Something being normal does not require any part of it to be voluntary, only that it is the average or expected outcome/standard. What proportion of the game world is given over to overland quest/exploration content? And what proportion is given over to endgame?

Overland exploration seems pretty normal to me.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Leocaran wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This highlights the problem that people with no interest in normal PvE content are lobbying to change the way PvE operates.

Oh, please, stop with this nonsense. Skyshards, mage and psijic skilline grinding is not even PvE content. It's mindless collecting, there's literally no environment to be against. Psijic have a quest for it only nominally.

Do you collect these things in a vacuum? Or do you travel through Tamriel to collect them?

It's a rhetorical question. You are "literally" in the environment to collect these things. And you suggest that other people are talking nonsense... ironic.

That you don't value these things as content? All well and good. Your choice. Whatever floats your boat. Funny thing is though, you don't get to decide for other people.

I consider these things content because they force me to explore the world. There are multiple spawning locations for each of the lorebooks. I have made it an in-game goal of mine to track them all down. I've been playing since PC early access and I still haven't finished.

Do I think that the way that I view lorebooks should apply to anyone else? Oh, dear Azura no.

Please do us all a favour and treat your own opinions and value judgements the same way.

I bolded something - For as many times as a toggle has been suggested that caters to both sides, the 'no' side are still stuck at 'no'.
It looks like it's those on that side of the argument who wants to dictate how others are forced to play.
That's what's truly ironic as those same people are the ones in here saying "No, it ruins my immersion and RP", "I consider this content", "You're forcing me to play X way" - Then why so much pushing back on a toggle option so both sides can play as they want.

I bolded something again - If you're following a guide (Console or PC) or using an addon then you aren't exploring at all, just arriving.
That's what most of us are doing, completely sapping any exploration or content dry (Of that which can be considered either). Now, we can all agree that may not be your thoughts regarding it and again, that's why the toggle has been continually suggested.

You may well have said you're open to a toggle elsewhere in the thread, if you did then forget all that.

Tapio75 wrote: »

People really need to start playing as characters again. Its not about you but your character, the person behind the screen is not visible to the world of Tamriel and his or her accomplishments do not matter to the character.

No to account wide stuff.

Maybe on Pc with all all the add-ons but trust me us console players actually have to play the game and do everything the long way

BNOC wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Leocaran wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This highlights the problem that people with no interest in normal PvE content are lobbying to change the way PvE operates.

Oh, please, stop with this nonsense. Skyshards, mage and psijic skilline grinding is not even PvE content. It's mindless collecting, there's literally no environment to be against. Psijic have a quest for it only nominally.

Do you collect these things in a vacuum? Or do you travel through Tamriel to collect them?

It's a rhetorical question. You are "literally" in the environment to collect these things. And you suggest that other people are talking nonsense... ironic.

That you don't value these things as content? All well and good. Your choice. Whatever floats your boat. Funny thing is though, you don't get to decide for other people.

I consider these things content because they force me to explore the world. There are multiple spawning locations for each of the lorebooks. I have made it an in-game goal of mine to track them all down. I've been playing since PC early access and I still haven't finished.

Do I think that the way that I view lorebooks should apply to anyone else? Oh, dear Azura no.

Please do us all a favour and treat your own opinions and value judgements the same way.

I bolded something - For as many times as a toggle has been suggested that caters to both sides, the 'no' side are still stuck at 'no'.
It looks like it's those on that side of the argument who wants to dictate how others are forced to play.
That's what's truly ironic as those same people are the ones in here saying "No, it ruins my immersion and RP", "I consider this content", "You're forcing me to play X way" - Then why so much pushing back on a toggle option so both sides can play as they want.

I bolded something again - If you're following a guide (Console or PC) or using an addon then you aren't exploring at all, just arriving.
That's what most of us are doing, completely sapping any exploration or content dry (Of that which can be considered either). Now, we can all agree that may not be your thoughts regarding it and again, that's why the toggle has been continually suggested.

You may well have said you're open to a toggle elsewhere in the thread, if you did then forget all that.

I'm not suggesting that you be forced to look for skyshards. ZOS is. They have been since release.

You are trying to make a case to change and existing system. In that case it is for you to prove that any option that is suggested (I have seen: toggle at character selection / marked on map / awarded at L50) has no negative impact whatsoever on the people already enjoying the existing setup if you want their support.

Of course I'm not following a guide. I never have (I don't think). As I said, my goal is to find all of the spawn points... not look them up. I have a handwritten notebook that contains directions to every crafting survey, lorebook, skyshard, treasure map, ancestral tomb, lesson of Vivec, Psijic time breach (...etc.) that I have been able to find.

So you are saying you've already ignored the exploration aspect, are using a guide, and now want a toggle added so... you don't even have to look at the guide anymore?

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Yes yes yes...everyone knows...nobody enjoys watching a rerun of a show they didn’t enjoy watching the first time...watching boring tv makes you look forward to the commercials...the more bored people get with the programs...the more likely it is they start changing the channel.

So why are you watching a channel filled with shows you don't enjoy?

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Yes yes yes...everyone knows...nobody enjoys watching a rerun of a show they didn’t enjoy watching the first time...watching boring tv makes you look forward to the commercials...the more bored people get with the programs...the more likely it is they start changing the channel.

So why are you watching a channel filled with shows you don't enjoy?

Exactly

Oh, so you don't play ESO anymore? I am sorry to hear that. I hope that your next game is more fulfilling for you.

There is one simple Solition to this argument. It is primarily PC and XBox that get the home field advantage here with add ons. Simply allowing them to collect all these in a day.

If PC and XBox is so against Ps4 from having account wide unlocked collections, such as Skyshards and lore books. Then it’s equally fair to remove the add on that allows them to exploit the game at a much faster rate.

It takes ps4 a week or more depending on other duties just to get all shards. We also need to rely on old info showing wrong locations and must work it out alone anyway. The same with lorebooks. But we would usually need greater than a week.

Is it fair that PC and Xbox can use an add on to locate and grab these at a surprising rate ? Bit unfair to allow ps4 to have any kind of advantage. As it was suggested. A toggle function for each of the 2 can be added to allow the user to decide how they want to receive and only once they reach level 50.

We can debate what is fair all year long. Microsoft users get a great range of add ons to help with a massive variety of what ps4 players call a true grind. Remove add ons completely and then they understand ps4 gameplay. It is fair for ps4 to have some type of account wide viewing of locations collected or items collected in total.

Edziu wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Yes yes yes...everyone knows...nobody enjoys watching a rerun of a show they didn’t enjoy watching the first time...watching boring tv makes you look forward to the commercials...the more bored people get with the programs...the more likely it is they start changing the channel.

So why are you watching a channel filled with shows you don't enjoy?

if there is no better channels at all which suits me then I m or forced to watch just this until I finally decide to switch an operator with better channels

So you are intentionally playing a game which you know doesn't suit you... and them trying to force changes so that it does suit you... even though the people who are happy with it, as is, are saying they want to keep it the way they enjoy it.

Iluvrien wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Leocaran wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This highlights the problem that people with no interest in normal PvE content are lobbying to change the way PvE operates.

Oh, please, stop with this nonsense. Skyshards, mage and psijic skilline grinding is not even PvE content. It's mindless collecting, there's literally no environment to be against. Psijic have a quest for it only nominally.

Do you collect these things in a vacuum? Or do you travel through Tamriel to collect them?

It's a rhetorical question. You are "literally" in the environment to collect these things. And you suggest that other people are talking nonsense... ironic.

That you don't value these things as content? All well and good. Your choice. Whatever floats your boat. Funny thing is though, you don't get to decide for other people.

I consider these things content because they force me to explore the world. There are multiple spawning locations for each of the lorebooks. I have made it an in-game goal of mine to track them all down. I've been playing since PC early access and I still haven't finished.

Do I think that the way that I view lorebooks should apply to anyone else? Oh, dear Azura no.

Please do us all a favour and treat your own opinions and value judgements the same way.

I bolded something - For as many times as a toggle has been suggested that caters to both sides, the 'no' side are still stuck at 'no'.
It looks like it's those on that side of the argument who wants to dictate how others are forced to play.
That's what's truly ironic as those same people are the ones in here saying "No, it ruins my immersion and RP", "I consider this content", "You're forcing me to play X way" - Then why so much pushing back on a toggle option so both sides can play as they want.

I bolded something again - If you're following a guide (Console or PC) or using an addon then you aren't exploring at all, just arriving.
That's what most of us are doing, completely sapping any exploration or content dry (Of that which can be considered either). Now, we can all agree that may not be your thoughts regarding it and again, that's why the toggle has been continually suggested.

You may well have said you're open to a toggle elsewhere in the thread, if you did then forget all that.

I'm not suggesting that you be forced to look for skyshards. ZOS is. They have been since release.

You are trying to make a case to change and existing system. In that case it is for you to prove that any option that is suggested (I have seen: toggle at character selection / marked on map / awarded at L50) has no negative impact whatsoever on the people already enjoying the existing setup if you want their support.

Of course I'm not following a guide. I never have (I don't think). As I said, my goal is to find all of the spawn points... not look them up. I have a handwritten notebook that contains directions to every crafting survey, lorebook, skyshard, treasure map, ancestral tomb, lesson of Vivec, Psijic time breach (...etc.) that I have been able to find.

So you are saying you've already ignored the exploration aspect, are using a guide, and now want a toggle added so... you don't even have to look at the guide anymore?

Granted you don't make any decisions but you're inherently pro-force if you're against changes, no?

Would you disagree that a toggle alone is enough to have no negative impact on other players? The 'negative impacts' that have been presented are completely inaccurate or misguided. I.E. "1-50 PVP" or "you're forcing me to play a particular way".

Iluvrien wrote: »

I consider these things content because they force me to explore the world. There are multiple spawning locations for each of the lorebooks. I have made it an in-game goal of mine to track them all down. I've been playing since PC early access and I still haven't finished.

Props to you for enjoying that part of the game to that extent. It's fair to assume however, that the majority of us want to play the character in what we consider content (PVE or PVP) and don't engage in RP or get gratification out of finding collectables more than once.

Out of pure interest, once you have finally finished the manual collection "'Ive been playing since PC early access and I still haven't finished." will you be spending the following 5 years doing the same thing on character number 2?

To answer your last question, yes, that's what I want.
Exploration to me, goes part and parcel with paying attention and taking things in. Wayshrine hopping and rapid manoeuvring to the next spot on the external map you're staring at just can't be considered exploration to me and the fact that I'm paying more attention to a .jpg completely takes out of any potential immersion and simply makes me a blind follower.

I get exploration to you has meaning and is significant in how you're playing and that's why we're talking about toggles and the likes.

Imho there should be a balance regarding alts. Im against things being too easy, but there are people that dont have lots of hours per day to play, and those sacred hours probably cant be too productive hunting for skyshards and lorebooks.
A middleway here should benefit both the game itself and normal players, with families, work and responsabilities.