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Implosion Changes
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CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Amplitude is a straight buff for both Sorcs. Anyone who doesn’t get this yet hasn’t thought it through fully.3 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Implosion is to counter the ridiculous heals and give identity to stam sorc.
Personally never really saw Implosion as having much to do with the stamsorc "identity". I guess for me, for quite some time, the stamsorc "identity" has mostly been wrapped up in Hurricane and Crit Surge, i.e., survivability, speed, and passive self-heals.Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Implosion is to counter the ridiculous heals and give identity to stam sorc.
And a RNG insta kill is balanced because of this? Nah, sorry dude. You obviously haven't tested the changed much.
Actually I have and it’s trash. By all means an absolute nerf.
Amplitude isn't trash. It seems like a decent buff in PvE (or at least, I'm not hitting any lower on my PvE DW/Bow stamsorc than last patch despite the enchant nerfs, unlike my stamblade which is hitting noticeably lower). I can't speak for PvP though, but I wouldn't say it's an "absolute nerf" if it's a buff in one half of the game.
Pulling 200k from implosion and 100k from amplitude. I lose damage as the boss throws out mor mechanics. Guess that makes since right?
So I thought this was worth testing. Using the Nirn/Infused frontbar setup from the DW traits/enchants/poisons tests I posted the other day (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455741/testing-dual-wield-traits-enchants-and-alchemical-poisons-updated-with-full-rotation), I repeated my initial tests with both skill points specced into Amplitude (I chose this setup because I get remarkably consistent parses with it):
40,998
40,875
40,729
Average: 40,867.3
With both skill points removed from Amplitude:
39,784
39,995
39,881
Average: 39886.7
Now, three of each parse probably isn't enough to be "definitive" but I've parsed this setup a hundred times over the past week or so and my DPS is nearly identical every time with a static rotation.
So it looks to me like Amplitude averages out to right around a 2.5% overall DPS increase (not compared to Implosion, just in and of itself). Which makes sense ... it should be about 4.5% average damage added, but when stacked with Minor Slayer, CP, and other % damage done modifiers it's not 4.5% more DPS.
I don't have a recent parse on hand, but from some older stamsorc parses I see Implosion doing anywhere from 2.3-4.2% of my total DPS in a parse. In the best case I have saved, it was 4.2% for 1860 DPS. In the worst, it was 2.3% for 1047 DPS.
So actually I'm going to have to retract whatever I said previously. Something seems to be driving my stamsorc DPS *up* from prior patches (maybe it's just the improved sustain) but Amplitude does not appear to be a buff to stamsorc DPS, at least on a 6mil skeleton.
Exactly. This should be 15% at the least useless it factors in a different way (ex multi and add). Such as BS nerf that is so unnecessarily one sided. Everybody loses
but 80% thinks they’ve one. That’s ZOS’ speciality.
Yeah I don't know exactly what the values should be but it appears that as it is currently built, Amplitude is at best break-even with Implosion and at worst a small but still relevant nerf.
Although maybe my testbed isn't set up right or I've missed something along the way. Worth a further look anyway.1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Amplitude is a straight buff for both Sorcs. Anyone who doesn’t get this yet hasn’t thought it through fully.
@CyrusArya see my prior comment. I just did some tests and I don't think that is actually true.
I thought it was a buff, but then I tested it, and now I'm not so sure. It looks like it might even be a small nerf.3 -
fastolfv_ESO✭✭✭✭✭killing implosion was the death knell of the sorc bomber, its literally just nbs or bust for grp burst dps atm. Sorc used to be such a great burst dps class, pushing it towards consistent low numbers is all around bad for pvp, its great and all you might do a few hundred more damage in pve but its not worth killing dps even more for pvp for such a small pve increase0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Implosion was severely un-balanced from a receiving end. Having a RNG execute with no counter other than "Don´t fall into execute range" is horrible design. Implosion on live is more or less a "proc-set" that can crit. Amplitude is a much more balanced passive.9 -
Tremors✭✭✭Implosion was severely un-balanced from a receiving end. Having a RNG execute with no counter other than "Don´t fall into execute range" is horrible design. Implosion on live is more or less a "proc-set" that can crit. Amplitude is a much more balanced passive.
Doesn't help sorc enough in PVE unfortunately. Probably helps counter in PVP a bit but it's whatever.Passionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sure but I mean half the damage and 1/4 of the identity isn't the solution. Besides that, sorcs get mages wrath and around the same amount of procs in pve.Wuuffyy,
WEREWOLF FINALLY GOT A REWORK AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (sorry I mean... NERF WW, one-bar BAD, DESTROY one-bar builds)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I'm still waiting for the day that a magsorc player will admit how ridiculous strong their spammable shields are instead of victimizing it and trying to get every other defense mechanic nerfed which has 1) some kind of stacking cost and 2) much more counters than shields have (to be fair, shields don't have a counter at all other than a complete niche set which is totally useless against everything else compared to other counter mechanics like AoE or dots/bleeds).
You do realize the counter to shields is EVERYTHING THAT DEALS DAMAGE.
Dodge Roll on the other hand only has very specific coutners - i.e. non direct damage attacks, which are often times counter-productive to slot for anything else than a perma-dodger or cloak spammer.
Bleeds affect sorcs too ... just saying and so do AoEs.
The difference is, Shields have an upper limit (tooltip), require a bar slot, are not buffed but nerfed in lag, got more counters than dodge roll, AND are the only true source of defense for sorcs.
Especially the latter is important since you fail to see the whole picture. Sure you can take damage from a sorcs curse every 3.5 secs even if you dodge, but your heals (vigor, forward momentum, etc) are more than enough to compensate that. Sorcs on the other hand only got their shields.
You only perceive shields to be strong b/c your brain is wired in a way that it expects the HP bar of your opponent to drop if you hit him. But that is not happening with shields. So your brain is not sending out all those happy-hormones (reward) and you get frustrated. We sorcs have the same issue when fighting other sorcs. But we see it from both sides and can tell how close of a call it oftentimes is. Shields and heals are essentially the same - i.e. extensions of your HP pool. But unlike shields, heals you see the HP bar moving and get a sense of achievement, even though the net result was the same as when you hit that shield. If shields were displayed like Buff Food increasing the size of the HP bar, then this issue would pretty much resolve itself and you'd see far less complaining about how OP shields are.
Just look at those perma-blocking tanks. You are dealing far less damage to them than to the shielded sorc. You are far less dangerous to them than to the shielded sorc, b/c there is no way that you will kill them if they don't manage to use specific skill after every attack of yours. And yet their HP bar is moving, and you don't feel like they are as bad / as "OP" as sorcs are.
The reason why this issue isn't as prevalent for dodging is b/c your brain registers that you did not hit the target, so it does not feel like there should be a reward. You will eventually get frustrated too, but that's for a different reason. It's b/c you fail to do a particular chore / action - i.e. if you fail to hit the hoop in basketball after repeatedly trying.
Shields have been taking hits after hits for the past years. And for all that time people have been claiming that shields are the most OP thing in the game. Yet for most of that time sorcs were underrepresented and easily killed by other classes. Strange that people played all those other builds and classes - especially stamina - many of them switching to classes to play on the strongest class, but for some reason, they rarely become sorcs.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »As someone who actually tested a semi petbuild on PTS I can tell you that it's been over a year ago since I've played something which feels as blatantly overtuned as petbuilds do on PTS currently. I can play with a buggy set (Necropotence) and I'm still afraid to make use of my ultimate because of how cheesy sorc feels. Is it so hard to just be happy about buff instead of trying to get everyone else nerfed? Enjoy the next patch when PvP gets flooded with potatoe sorc who roflstomp everyone with pets dealing more damage than proc sets ever did (good thing that I have a sorc by myself which I can just play even tho it will mean nothing being "good" on a petbuild next patch).
If that's true, then that is BS too. I don't want to sorc to be overbuffed and turn into another stamblade. I want it to be fixed and the problems we have had for years to be addressed. That does not have to involve nerfing other classes. In fact I am not a big fan of that b/c it means you would change the balance between all other classes as well, which is kinda like opening the box of the pandora. It would be so much better to address the issues on the side of the sorc whenever it is possible, b/c that would not upset the existing balance between the other classes.
WOW i can feel the bias. first, the counter to shields is NOT everything that deals damage, just like the counter to healing is not everything that deals damage. the counter to heals is defile. does defile effect shields? would you like defile to effect shields? how much would you complain if that were a thing?.
second, people complain about shields not because they don't see the health bar moving, but because shields effectively increase your max health. pvp in this game is in a BURST meta, and it is very hard to burst someone with 40k effective health.
Your post sounds like a screaming infant that wasn't given exactly what they wanted.
Wow you are so short-sighted and/or clueless that it hurts.
First, defile is the counter to mending, not to healing in general. There is no debuff to shields because there is no buff for shields. But b/c you are so biased you cannot see that.
Second, your analysis regarding effective max health and shields is very superficial. You completely ignore resistences and the ability to regain your lost HP. True, shields initially give you a larger health pool. But once you get through the shields the sorc becomes squishy - it's a trade-off. Other classes/builds have a constant mitigation, which allows them to recover even when they HP is low. The same is not true for sorcs since they lack a decent heal.
And just in case you feel the urge to bring up "But shields now also benefit from resistances so sorcs can stack into resistances, which makes them tankier even when the shields are broken". First off all, that is only "whiny clueless infants" like you. Secondly, shields are in return taking more damage too, so nothing is really gained for sorcs.
Now crawl back under your rock and continue to live in ignorance.5 -
jeskah✭✭✭Sorry, i was off the grid for a few days: What is this cp scaling thing next week and where does it come from?0
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Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Amplitude is a straight buff for both Sorcs. Anyone who doesn’t get this yet hasn’t thought it through fully.
@CyrusArya see my prior comment. I just did some tests and I don't think that is actually true.
I thought it was a buff, but then I tested it, and now I'm not so sure. It looks like it might even be a small nerf.
I'm willing to accept a small nerf when it means an RNG proc passive is removed to make way for something more consistent. Now if ZOS would just buff expert mage a bit and un-funk Persistence ('Casting a Dark Magic ability reduces the cost of your next skill by x%'), shift Crystal Blast to a stamina morph, and change Rune Cage to a more powerful DoT if it hits a CC immune target, we'd be going somewhere.
It IS a nerf. But is also a good/healthy overall change.
Edit: Rebate is still godawful. C'mon let's go, I want a "X resource return when someone interacts with a Daedric summoning skill, ICD of...something'.
Shield takes a hit? Resources \o/ Block an attack while Bound Armor is up? Resources \o/ Etc etc.Edited by Tonturri on January 31, 2019 4:12PM1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Implosion is to counter the ridiculous heals and give identity to stam sorc.
And a RNG insta kill is balanced because of this? Nah, sorry dude. You obviously haven't tested the changed much.
Actually I have and it’s trash. By all means an absolute nerf.
Then you're misinformed and just want to be OP, got it.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Implosion is to counter the ridiculous heals and give identity to stam sorc.
And a RNG insta kill is balanced because of this? Nah, sorry dude. You obviously haven't tested the changed much.
Actually I have and it’s trash. By all means an absolute nerf.
Then you're misinformed and just want to be OP, got it.
@NyassaV Can you demonstrate that Amplitude is *not* a nerf from the old Implosion passive?
I keep seeing people saying it's a buff, and I see lots of "agrees" on those comments, but I don't see any actual tests to back that up.
I tested it and it looks like a nerf to me. Not a huge nerf but a nerf nonetheless. My test could be set up wrong in some way, but I'm seeing something like 2.2-2.5% DPS increase from Amplitude which is at best a break-even on what I used to get from Implosion and in some cases quite a bit worse.
Not saying I'm right and it *is* a nerf, I'd just like to see someone demonstrate that it's not. I thought Amplitude was a buff but my tests say differently.3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I'm still waiting for the day that a magsorc player will admit how ridiculous strong their spammable shields are instead of victimizing it and trying to get every other defense mechanic nerfed which has 1) some kind of stacking cost and 2) much more counters than shields have (to be fair, shields don't have a counter at all other than a complete niche set which is totally useless against everything else compared to other counter mechanics like AoE or dots/bleeds).
You do realize the counter to shields is EVERYTHING THAT DEALS DAMAGE.
Dodge Roll on the other hand only has very specific coutners - i.e. non direct damage attacks, which are often times counter-productive to slot for anything else than a perma-dodger or cloak spammer.
Bleeds affect sorcs too ... just saying and so do AoEs.
The difference is, Shields have an upper limit (tooltip), require a bar slot, are not buffed but nerfed in lag, got more counters than dodge roll, AND are the only true source of defense for sorcs.
Especially the latter is important since you fail to see the whole picture. Sure you can take damage from a sorcs curse every 3.5 secs even if you dodge, but your heals (vigor, forward momentum, etc) are more than enough to compensate that. Sorcs on the other hand only got their shields.
You only perceive shields to be strong b/c your brain is wired in a way that it expects the HP bar of your opponent to drop if you hit him. But that is not happening with shields. So your brain is not sending out all those happy-hormones (reward) and you get frustrated. We sorcs have the same issue when fighting other sorcs. But we see it from both sides and can tell how close of a call it oftentimes is. Shields and heals are essentially the same - i.e. extensions of your HP pool. But unlike shields, heals you see the HP bar moving and get a sense of achievement, even though the net result was the same as when you hit that shield. If shields were displayed like Buff Food increasing the size of the HP bar, then this issue would pretty much resolve itself and you'd see far less complaining about how OP shields are.
Just look at those perma-blocking tanks. You are dealing far less damage to them than to the shielded sorc. You are far less dangerous to them than to the shielded sorc, b/c there is no way that you will kill them if they don't manage to use specific skill after every attack of yours. And yet their HP bar is moving, and you don't feel like they are as bad / as "OP" as sorcs are.
The reason why this issue isn't as prevalent for dodging is b/c your brain registers that you did not hit the target, so it does not feel like there should be a reward. You will eventually get frustrated too, but that's for a different reason. It's b/c you fail to do a particular chore / action - i.e. if you fail to hit the hoop in basketball after repeatedly trying.
Shields have been taking hits after hits for the past years. And for all that time people have been claiming that shields are the most OP thing in the game. Yet for most of that time sorcs were underrepresented and easily killed by other classes. Strange that people played all those other builds and classes - especially stamina - many of them switching to classes to play on the strongest class, but for some reason, they rarely become sorcs.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »As someone who actually tested a semi petbuild on PTS I can tell you that it's been over a year ago since I've played something which feels as blatantly overtuned as petbuilds do on PTS currently. I can play with a buggy set (Necropotence) and I'm still afraid to make use of my ultimate because of how cheesy sorc feels. Is it so hard to just be happy about buff instead of trying to get everyone else nerfed? Enjoy the next patch when PvP gets flooded with potatoe sorc who roflstomp everyone with pets dealing more damage than proc sets ever did (good thing that I have a sorc by myself which I can just play even tho it will mean nothing being "good" on a petbuild next patch).
If that's true, then that is BS too. I don't want to sorc to be overbuffed and turn into another stamblade. I want it to be fixed and the problems we have had for years to be addressed. That does not have to involve nerfing other classes. In fact I am not a big fan of that b/c it means you would change the balance between all other classes as well, which is kinda like opening the box of the pandora. It would be so much better to address the issues on the side of the sorc whenever it is possible, b/c that would not upset the existing balance between the other classes.
WOW i can feel the bias. first, the counter to shields is NOT everything that deals damage, just like the counter to healing is not everything that deals damage. the counter to heals is defile. does defile effect shields? would you like defile to effect shields? how much would you complain if that were a thing?.
second, people complain about shields not because they don't see the health bar moving, but because shields effectively increase your max health. pvp in this game is in a BURST meta, and it is very hard to burst someone with 40k effective health.
Your post sounds like a screaming infant that wasn't given exactly what they wanted.
Wow you are so short-sighted and/or clueless that it hurts.
First, defile is the counter to mending, not to healing in general. There is no debuff to shields because there is no buff for shields. But b/c you are so biased you cannot see that.
Second, your analysis regarding effective max health and shields is very superficial. You completely ignore resistences and the ability to regain your lost HP. True, shields initially give you a larger health pool. But once you get through the shields the sorc becomes squishy - it's a trade-off. Other classes/builds have a constant mitigation, which allows them to recover even when they HP is low. The same is not true for sorcs since they lack a decent heal.
And just in case you feel the urge to bring up "But shields now also benefit from resistances so sorcs can stack into resistances, which makes them tankier even when the shields are broken". First off all, that is only "whiny clueless infants" like you. Secondly, shields are in return taking more damage too, so nothing is really gained for sorcs.
Now crawl back under your rock and continue to live in ignorance.
Lol, what are you guys talkingWolf_Watching wrote: »Wolf_Watching wrote: »Implosion is to counter the ridiculous heals and give identity to stam sorc.
And a RNG insta kill is balanced because of this? Nah, sorry dude. You obviously haven't tested the changed much.
Actually I have and it’s trash. By all means an absolute nerf.
Then you're misinformed and just want to be OP, got it.
K bud.
Let them
Take
What you play.
Nerf it to the ground and al
Alternatives
And then I’ll
Come
To your post and say the same
Thing.
Just saying man.Wuuffyy,
WEREWOLF FINALLY GOT A REWORK AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (sorry I mean... NERF WW, one-bar BAD, DESTROY one-bar builds)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »But back to the topic. Boss hp is going down faster at lower health thanks to all of the execute mechanics present in trial group. Taking first 15% of boss's hp usually takes longer than last 15% of boss's hp. From this perspective replacing Implosion with Amplitude is a buff for both magsorc and stamsorc.
The only problem is that the first 15% don't matter. Yes, your DPS number will be higher, but who cares about it when you wipe in the execute phase due to lack of damage?
Dear, your statement isn't supported by practice. If last percentages matter so much more than first ones, why nobody runs 3x bloodthirsty on jewelry then? First percentages does not matter, so any other option than bloodthirsty doesn't matter right?Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 1, 2019 8:39AM3 -
Flame_of_Hades✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I'm still waiting for the day that a magsorc player will admit how ridiculous strong their spammable shields are instead of victimizing it and trying to get every other defense mechanic nerfed which has 1) some kind of stacking cost and 2) much more counters than shields have (to be fair, shields don't have a counter at all other than a complete niche set which is totally useless against everything else compared to other counter mechanics like AoE or dots/bleeds).
You do realize the counter to shields is EVERYTHING THAT DEALS DAMAGE.
Dodge Roll on the other hand only has very specific coutners - i.e. non direct damage attacks, which are often times counter-productive to slot for anything else than a perma-dodger or cloak spammer.
Bleeds affect sorcs too ... just saying and so do AoEs.
The difference is, Shields have an upper limit (tooltip), require a bar slot, are not buffed but nerfed in lag, got more counters than dodge roll, AND are the only true source of defense for sorcs.
Especially the latter is important since you fail to see the whole picture. Sure you can take damage from a sorcs curse every 3.5 secs even if you dodge, but your heals (vigor, forward momentum, etc) are more than enough to compensate that. Sorcs on the other hand only got their shields.
You only perceive shields to be strong b/c your brain is wired in a way that it expects the HP bar of your opponent to drop if you hit him. But that is not happening with shields. So your brain is not sending out all those happy-hormones (reward) and you get frustrated. We sorcs have the same issue when fighting other sorcs. But we see it from both sides and can tell how close of a call it oftentimes is. Shields and heals are essentially the same - i.e. extensions of your HP pool. But unlike shields, heals you see the HP bar moving and get a sense of achievement, even though the net result was the same as when you hit that shield. If shields were displayed like Buff Food increasing the size of the HP bar, then this issue would pretty much resolve itself and you'd see far less complaining about how OP shields are.
Just look at those perma-blocking tanks. You are dealing far less damage to them than to the shielded sorc. You are far less dangerous to them than to the shielded sorc, b/c there is no way that you will kill them if they don't manage to use specific skill after every attack of yours. And yet their HP bar is moving, and you don't feel like they are as bad / as "OP" as sorcs are.
The reason why this issue isn't as prevalent for dodging is b/c your brain registers that you did not hit the target, so it does not feel like there should be a reward. You will eventually get frustrated too, but that's for a different reason. It's b/c you fail to do a particular chore / action - i.e. if you fail to hit the hoop in basketball after repeatedly trying.
Shields have been taking hits after hits for the past years. And for all that time people have been claiming that shields are the most OP thing in the game. Yet for most of that time sorcs were underrepresented and easily killed by other classes. Strange that people played all those other builds and classes - especially stamina - many of them switching to classes to play on the strongest class, but for some reason, they rarely become sorcs.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »As someone who actually tested a semi petbuild on PTS I can tell you that it's been over a year ago since I've played something which feels as blatantly overtuned as petbuilds do on PTS currently. I can play with a buggy set (Necropotence) and I'm still afraid to make use of my ultimate because of how cheesy sorc feels. Is it so hard to just be happy about buff instead of trying to get everyone else nerfed? Enjoy the next patch when PvP gets flooded with potatoe sorc who roflstomp everyone with pets dealing more damage than proc sets ever did (good thing that I have a sorc by myself which I can just play even tho it will mean nothing being "good" on a petbuild next patch).
If that's true, then that is BS too. I don't want to sorc to be overbuffed and turn into another stamblade. I want it to be fixed and the problems we have had for years to be addressed. That does not have to involve nerfing other classes. In fact I am not a big fan of that b/c it means you would change the balance between all other classes as well, which is kinda like opening the box of the pandora. It would be so much better to address the issues on the side of the sorc whenever it is possible, b/c that would not upset the existing balance between the other classes.
WOW i can feel the bias. first, the counter to shields is NOT everything that deals damage, just like the counter to healing is not everything that deals damage. the counter to heals is defile. does defile effect shields? would you like defile to effect shields? how much would you complain if that were a thing?.
second, people complain about shields not because they don't see the health bar moving, but because shields effectively increase your max health. pvp in this game is in a BURST meta, and it is very hard to burst someone with 40k effective health.
Your post sounds like a screaming infant that wasn't given exactly what they wanted.
Wow you are so short-sighted and/or clueless that it hurts.
First, defile is the counter to mending, not to healing in general. There is no debuff to shields because there is no buff for shields. But b/c you are so biased you cannot see that.
Second, your analysis regarding effective max health and shields is very superficial. You completely ignore resistences and the ability to regain your lost HP. True, shields initially give you a larger health pool. But once you get through the shields the sorc becomes squishy - it's a trade-off. Other classes/builds have a constant mitigation, which allows them to recover even when they HP is low. The same is not true for sorcs since they lack a decent heal.
And just in case you feel the urge to bring up "But shields now also benefit from resistances so sorcs can stack into resistances, which makes them tankier even when the shields are broken". First off all, that is only "whiny clueless infants" like you. Secondly, shields are in return taking more damage too, so nothing is really gained for sorcs.
Now crawl back under your rock and continue to live in ignorance.
wait. so, if i get through the shields of a sorc? they aren't going to "heal" by putting up more shields? shielding is effectively healing yourself, except, you can go over your max health. the only situation in which this is null, is one in which you are being hit by shield breaker.
and actually, i do feel the need to bring up that shields now benefit from resistances. lets say you have 2k resists, as a low number. 0--> 2k is still less damage taken. yes, you can be crit, but that means you need to use impen instead of full divines... because of resist and people making proper builds, shields are taking LESS damage than they were. yes, you are now capped at 50% of your max health per shield, but run 2x shields and o look, you just stacked your max health on top of your health.
do the implo changed suck? yes, but it's not mag sorcs that are suffering here, not by a long shot. if your going to argue with someone about game mechanics, at least learn them first.
1 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well at least you understood by now that heals and shields are essentially the same thing - i.e. they increase the total amount of HP available. One is pro-active, the other one is re-active.
But there are also some significant differences:
1) Putting up a new shield won't get you out of execute range, that's what the lack of healing was referring to
2) Shields cannot crit
3) Shield size generally does not increase when your HP is low
4) Shields don't scale with Spell damage, so you lose offensive power, whereas Heals (generally) scale with Spell/Weapon damage
And even though you are admitting that Heals and Shields are essentially the same, you say it is ok to have a shield breaker set, but not a heal breaker set. Nice bias. And a Breaker-Set against whatever you are using as defensive mechanisms would probably be OP too ... even though sorcs are not outperforming ... not even closely.
As for shields taking less damage:
How the hell do you come up with 2k resistances? That's like going naked except for 2 light armor pieces. I am assuming you are talking about spell and phyiscal resitances since you are referring to "resists" which is clearly plural.
Anyway, Shield's aren't really stronger. Reduced damage taken from all 3 resistences roughly cancels out with the additional damage taken from crits - in nonCP that is.
In CP PvP this is a completely different story now that Bastion is basically useless, while Shattering Blows are still working the way they used to. As a result sorcs take about 10 to 20% more damage than prior to Murkmire. You see, ZOS loves forum cry babies so much that, unlike for all other CP stars which have an inverse star that acts as a counter (e.g. +5% direct damage and -5% direct damage taken), Bastion and Shattering Blows are not inverses of each other but rather have different bases (e.g. 5% more Shield VS. 5% more damage against shields). Surely you knew and understood this, given how versed you are in the game mechanics.
Also, sorcs have not been running Divine gear in PvP for many years now, since shields are so weak that sorcs need to be tanky underneath them ... but how should a troll like you know that.
The way you are crying about shields you are probably one of those OP stambuilds that even get the best defensive mechanisms in the game for free, but still can't cut it and is thus crying on the forums.
You are complaining about shield stacking. Yet neither dodge roll, block, and cloak don't even have an upper limit and the former can even be used off global cooldown and during lag. And a Templar spamming 2 Breath of Lifes will have the benefits. Seriously, it's time you spent some time thinking things through before starting posting your propaganda BS here. You are like a certain American president: big talk, but no clue what you are talking about.Edited by Galarthor on February 1, 2019 7:47PM4 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well at least you understood by now that heals and shields are essentially the same thing - i.e. they increase the total amount of HP available. One is pro-active, the other one is re-active.
But there are also some significant differences:
1) Putting up a new shield won't get you out of execute range, that's what the lack of healing was referring to
2) Shields cannot crit
3) Shield size generally does not increase when your HP is low
4) Shields don't scale with Spell damage, so you lose offensive power, whereas Heals (generally) scale with Spell/Weapon damage
And even though you are admitting that Heals and Shields are essentially the same, you say it is ok to have a shield breaker set, but not a heal breaker set. Nice bias. And a Breaker-Set against whatever you are using as defensive mechanisms would probably be OP too ... even though sorcs are not outperforming ... not even closely.
As for shields taking less damage:
How the hell do you come up with 2k resistances? That's like going naked except for 2 light armor pieces. I am assuming you are talking about spell and phyiscal resitances since you are referring to "resists" which is clearly plural.
Anyway, Shield's aren't really stronger. Reduced damage taken from all 3 resistences roughly cancels out with the additional damage taken from crits - in nonCP that is.
In CP PvP this is a completely different story now that Bastion is basically useless, while Shattering Blows are still working the way they used to. As a result sorcs take about 10 to 20% more damage than prior to Murkmire. You see, ZOS loves forum cry babies so much that, unlike for all other CP stars which have an inverse star that acts as a counter (e.g. +5% direct damage and -5% direct damage taken), Bastion and Shattering Blows are not inverses of each other but rather have different bases (e.g. 5% more Shield VS. 5% more damage against shields). Surely you knew and understood this, given how versed you are in the game mechanics.
Also, sorcs have not been running Divine gear in PvP for many years now, since shields are so weak that sorcs need to be tanky underneath them ... but how should a troll like you know that.
The way you are crying about shields you are probably one of those OP stambuilds that even get the best defensive mechanisms in the game for free, but still can't cut it and is thus crying on the forums.
You are complaining about shield stacking. Yet neither dodge roll, block, and cloak don't even have an upper limit and the former can even be used off global cooldown and during lag. And a Templar spamming 2 Breath of Lifes will have the benefits. Seriously, it's time you spent some time thinking things through before starting posting your propaganda BS here. You are like Donald Trump, big talk but no clue what you are talking about.
Isn't Durok's Bane the "heal breaker" set? And don't we also have poisons and like 7 skills that also act as "heal breakers"?1 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »Isn't Durok's Bane the "heal breaker" set? And don't we also have poisons and like 7 skills that also act as "heal breakers"?
It is definitely a set aim at healers. But it is not quite the same. It does not completely circumvent your only defense and there is a buff to counter it - i.e. Major/Minor Mending. It's the same for all other sources of Defile.
Duroks would be a shield breaker equivalent for heals if it dealt damage that could not be healed.Edited by Galarthor on February 1, 2019 7:23PM1 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dying to implosion in PvP was frustrating and didn't feel balanced, but at least it was interesting.
This new passive is kinda boring. Can't say it's necessarily a bad change for balance, but I do shed a single tear every time interesting mechanics that differentiate classes are removed.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub3 -
troomar✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Dear, your statement isn't supported by practice.
Funny you say that. Since we are a part of the same trial group, my statement is supported by the same practice your statement is. And since you're a healer, I could say you know nothing about DPS. But I won't be toxic and I would rather prove you wrong.Olupajmibanan wrote: »If last percentages matter so much more than first ones, why nobody runs 3x bloodthirsty on jewelry then?
Most stamina damage dealers use 2x bloodthirsty and 1 infused. Or at least 1 bloodthirsty and 2 infused. For Magicka it's a bit different. And yes, healers don't use bloodthirsty
Olupajmibanan wrote: »First percentages does not matter, so any other option than bloodthirsty doesn't matter right?
I didn't say anything like that, it's just your imagination.
So let's go through the trials we have in the game (I will mention only the hard bosses):
AA, last boss - there is clearly an execute phase in the last 15%. While it's nice to down the boss asap to this last 15%, the real dangerous part is just the last 15%. First 15% don't matter.
HRC, twinned right boss - you get DPS boost for the first 90% on the copies, but the hard part is the last 10%, where you really miss your stamina. First 15% don't matter.
HRC, last boss - there is an execute phase with a clear telegraphed animations and more mechanics. While this phase is not particularly difficult (but what is in Craglorn trials), it's still better to have more DPS in the execute phase then in the first 15% where you just kill 2 Gargoyles. First 15% don't matter.
SO - Right, none of these bosses have any execute phase, so the first 15%, and the last 15% are level.
MoL, last boss - super dangerous, and with additional mechanics execute phase on the last 11%. First 15% matter only if you wan't to burn it on platform 3
For all the the other groups first 15% don't matter.
HoF, triple boss - again, clear execute phase in the last 20%? First 15% don't matter, it's just full of mechanics.
HoF, last boss - should I repeat myself again? The last boss is a *joke* but the final execute phase. First 15% don't matter.
AS, last boss - this is a bit more complicated because of mechanics, but the first 10% is just a burn phase without any danger and it basically doesn't matter what your damage is.
CR, last boss - you know pretty much yourself how hard for a healer is the execute phase of this boss. Would you really rather spend 10 more second in the execute phase for the effect the first 15% being faster? No kidding.
There is not a single boss in any trial where the first 15% would be harder or with more mechanics, so you would want to skip them asap. If anything, the first and last 15% are level in difficulty.
Implosion removal is a nerf even for PvE. It's a buff for skeleton parses though.Yes.3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wholeheartedly dislike Amplitude. I find it to be very unintuitive if not to say counterproductive.
Remove one of the other underwhelming passives Sorcs have and keep Implosion as it is. Amplitude is okay but not as a replacement for Implosion - at least not with the values it provides at the moment (at least for PvP).
I would redesign it a bit more in favour of the "amplitude" thing - and still make it an execute plus reverse execute at the same time.
Amplitude should be the weakest at around 50% HP and the strongest above 80% and under 20%. Something like this:
100-90: 10% more damage
90-80: 8% more damage
80-60: 6% more damage
60-40: 4% more damage
40-20: 6% more damage
20-10: 8% more damage
10-0: 10% more damageEdited by Seraphayel on February 2, 2019 2:10AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Grom4e✭✭Return implosion ZOS !!! Your new amplitude is real garbage!This is the same as that DK pick up Battle Roar passiveEdited by Grom4e on February 2, 2019 6:25AM0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Return implosion ZOS !!! Your new amplitude is real garbage!This is the same as that DK pick up Battle Roar passive
lolWuuffyy,
WEREWOLF FINALLY GOT A REWORK AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (sorry I mean... NERF WW, one-bar BAD, DESTROY one-bar builds)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swapping my wolf to a stamdk. I'm tired of getting nerfed every patch on the underdog none the less. %&%& me!Wuuffyy,
WEREWOLF FINALLY GOT A REWORK AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (sorry I mean... NERF WW, one-bar BAD, DESTROY one-bar builds)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Swapping my wolf to a stamdk. I'm tired of getting nerfed every patch on the underdog none the less. %&%& me!
Agreed, though I don't think Amplitude is a nerf. It definitely is not from a PvP perspective. And even from a PvE persective it hardly seems to be a nerf. You have an increased damage over 85% of the boss fight and a lower damage over 15% of the fight. It might even turn out to be a buff even for the remaining 15% since on average you will deal 1.5% more damage and depending on your DPS that might be more than the occasional damage spike every 17th hit to the enemy once it is below 15% HP.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »I wholeheartedly dislike Amplitude. I find it to be very unintuitive if not to say counterproductive.
Remove one of the other underwhelming passives Sorcs have and keep Implosion as it is. Amplitude is okay but not as a replacement for Implosion - at least not with the values it provides at the moment (at least for PvP).
I would redesign it a bit more in favour of the "amplitude" thing - and still make it an execute plus reverse execute at the same time.
Amplitude should be the weakest at around 50% HP and the strongest above 80% and under 20%. Something like this:
100-90: 10% more damage
90-80: 8% more damage
80-60: 6% more damage
60-40: 4% more damage
40-20: 6% more damage
20-10: 8% more damage
10-0: 10% more damage
I'm no fan of the reverse execute mechanic either but I think that would be a bit too much. They should simply invert it to increase damage from 50 to 0% hp and call it a day.1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Swapping my wolf to a stamdk. I'm tired of getting nerfed every patch on the underdog none the less. %&%& me!
Agreed, though I don't think Amplitude is a nerf. It definitely is not from a PvP perspective. And even from a PvE persective it hardly seems to be a nerf. You have an increased damage over 85% of the boss fight and a lower damage over 15% of the fight. It might even turn out to be a buff even for the remaining 15% since on average you will deal 1.5% more damage and depending on your DPS that might be more than the occasional damage spike every 17th hit to the enemy once it is below 15% HP.
@Galarthor
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5780864/#Comment_5780864
As far as I can tell, it's a nerf in PvE. Amplitude just isn't very strong.1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »I wholeheartedly dislike Amplitude. I find it to be very unintuitive if not to say counterproductive.
Remove one of the other underwhelming passives Sorcs have and keep Implosion as it is. Amplitude is okay but not as a replacement for Implosion - at least not with the values it provides at the moment (at least for PvP).
I would redesign it a bit more in favour of the "amplitude" thing - and still make it an execute plus reverse execute at the same time.
Amplitude should be the weakest at around 50% HP and the strongest above 80% and under 20%. Something like this:
100-90: 10% more damage
90-80: 8% more damage
80-60: 6% more damage
60-40: 4% more damage
40-20: 6% more damage
20-10: 8% more damage
10-0: 10% more damage
I'm no fan of the reverse execute mechanic either but I think that would be a bit too much. They should simply invert it to increase damage from 50 to 0% hp and call it a day.
Numbers can easily be adjusted. Make it 9 - 7 - 5 - 3 - 5 - 7 - 9 or 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 4 - 6 - 8; it really is that simple.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭This would be better if it just did 10-5 when going from 100 to 50% health and then just 5% extra when below 50%. Warden gets an extreme amount of extra damage from slotting animal companion stuffs.0 -
Grom4e✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Swapping my wolf to a stamdk. I'm tired of getting nerfed every patch on the underdog none the less. %&%& me!
I'm thinking the same thing.Especially on StamDK good new set deadly strikes. I already collected three axes for him, now I think about the other sets/heavy and monster setEdited by Grom4e on February 2, 2019 7:20PM1