how to balance cloak RIGHT NOW
turning it on removes the ability of players to cast NEW skills in your direction via tab targeting system
you can still be hit with light and heavy attacks. any swing or projectile that is already on its way to hit, STILL DOES DAMAGE
no longer will I wind up Dizzying Swing until it's within a millimeter of connecting to have you disappear in an instant, not only from my sight but as though you had logged off and the space you occupy with your toon is EMPTY.
cloak isn't just a cloak, it's a portal to oblivion or some other dimension that exists underneath the netcode where damage doesn't work. given this behavior it would make entire sense for cloak to unlock wallhacks as well.
cloaking will take at least a second to complete, during which time all snares will be removed and snare invuln will be granted as long as cloak is up

cloak turns a moving player around 15-20% transparent.
if a cloaked player stays still for 5 seconds they become completely invisible.

this is a bandaid.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

People complain about it all the time. People complain about cloak in general.

people must have tired of pointing out core flaws in the game then, because I haven't seen much bashing on it among the usual topics

heavier wrote: »

"cloak" should put the caster (slowly) into a semi translucent state
moving increase opacity and standing still will make the player nearly completely invisible
the damage cancel mechanic is so so so so ill conceived that it makes me want to quit the game trying to cast even point blank javelin.
"cloaked" players need to be completely damageable (mist form can remain its own separate brokenness)
doesn't help that all ESO's server processors are perma-throttled, rubberbanded and generally put a nice delay on things, so that the animation indicates the attack landing but a half second the target disappears

It's a good thing the average player doesn't try and talk about balance. Because compared to a 1 percenter their knowledge of micro and macro gameplay mechanics are so small they wouldnt even begin to underatand mechanic balancing.

no one had a problem with it now for 5 years + , as well as in all the other MMO's, and also in all the SP elderscrolls games, yet all of a sudden it has to be removed or changed because of forum complaints.
these nerf threads and complaint threads is the problem, not the skills, not the weapons, not the armor sets, not the class passives.
every day i fight people that use invisibility, i dont have a problem with it because i use the tools that eso devs made for us to battle and win against that skill of invisibility.
we all do. the counters do work.

just use the tools put forward like we all have for the past 5+ years, it works.
i use the tools that eso devs made for us to battle and win against that skill of invisibility.
we all do. the counters do work.

OP do you ever have fun playing this game? Just asking why you keep playing, because you do nothing but complain, constantly.

Have you played a NB at all? Play one and tell me it's an "I win" button whiners make it out to be...

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Learn to drink a detect potion. Sheesh.

I'll do this. btw do these trigger my HP pots?

ApostateHobo wrote: »

It has tons of counters, maybe you should use one if it gives you so much trouble.

Undefwun wrote: »

OP do you ever have fun playing this game? Just asking why you keep playing, because you do nothing but complain, constantly.

Have you played a NB at all? Play one and tell me it's an "I win" button whiners make it out to be...

yes I do, but that fun can be reversed suddenly when I encounter something that is as baffling as desyncing cloaks. I haven't actually complained that much tbh, but I have offered my perspectives quite liberally. complaining would imply some sensation of reservation. I actually make a point to play with near complete ignorance and try to learn as things jump out at me.

if it seems like a bit much consider that I'm just trying to get some ideas to stick and marveling at the possibilities of the format ESO has.
I'm going to virtue signal that I've played MMO for 2/3 of my life and I'm almost 24.

I plan on retiring within 2 years and I would like to leave a lasting impression.

I ask why people do not complain about invisibility because that seems about the only way to get the attention of developers

since earlier in the thread someone has pointed out to me that people do complain about this a lot I am just going to assume that it is beyond the capability of the developers to modify cloak in such a way that the game remains cohesive.

I am going to default to the idea of modifying tab targeted combat as devs consider learning from Korean Style Action Combat (KSAC)
KSAC first appeared to my knowledge in the MMORPG genre with the titles Dragon Nest and TERA, released within 6 months of each other circa 2012.

although could be seen as a logical progression in terms of Quality of Life, it is the most engaging way to approach combat.
what ESO has done in abandoning cooldowns for skills could be seen as a revolutionary blunder (genius but it must be handled with great care)...it is enough to garner a cult following among dedicated players. I am in the process of converting/updating my extensive knowledge so that there can be positive insight from the friction I experience comparing it to my previous endeavors in MMO.

ESO has a lot of systems of damage, healing, and CC going in a lot of different directions.
ESO has 3 linear pools of resource and 1 ult, the linear pools behave in much the same manners but have different consequences once emptied. the ult is filled by weaving light attacks and building ult generation/having ult generating abilities. my damage ult is Soul Assault which soft counters cloaking players for 2.5 seconds (while leaving me exposed to damage and otherwise unable to defend fully). this ability only works for my class templar IMHO because I also have backlash which can detonate on someone who is invisible as I understand. if the person cloaking however, has any investment into total HP, HP regen, or resists, 2.5 seconds of SA + backlash barely scratches the surface of their HP.

given the smorgasbord of build metas for players to dive into I expect there to be some mild antidote to every extreme form design decision, given that I execute the required actions flawlessly.

with cloak, there is either slot a detection (I only have 10 slots to hold skills, detections serve no purpose other than to reveal close by cloakers, so to slot a detection there is also the requirement of binning an otherwise essential ability) or succumb.

meanwhile slotting a cloak costs the same as slotting a detection but offers infinitely greater potential for abuse.
I understand with tab targeting having an invisible person be damageable would completely ruin the fun of many players.
KSAC involves directing each animation in a manner that the skill connects with the hitbox of the intended target.
semi-transparency would remove the ability to tab target the player, and make them harder to see, thereby harder to hit.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

I wear overwhelming, keep magelight slotted, use detection potions and use some aoe. Still 50/50 on countering a cloak. Even if i manage to pull the nightblade out they still avoided all my incomming projectiles and nothings stopping them from a few dodge rolls and cloaking again. Also cloak buffing strong ranged abilities like snipe is just a bad idea. Just my 2 cents.

exactly even if you hard counter and waste all that potential slotting/potting/gearing it still isn't even worth it because all you've done is remove one of their gimmicks

Nothing more than yet another L2P post right here....

0 other games have instant cast spammable universally available ground aoes that do 70% snare the moment they first proc
it's just a bad idea

Gilvoth wrote: »

heavier wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Learn to drink a detect potion. Sheesh.

I'll do this. btw do these trigger my HP pots?

ApostateHobo wrote: »

It has tons of counters, maybe you should use one if it gives you so much trouble.

Undefwun wrote: »

OP do you ever have fun playing this game? Just asking why you keep playing, because you do nothing but complain, constantly.

Have you played a NB at all? Play one and tell me it's an "I win" button whiners make it out to be...

.... devs consider learning from Korean Style Action Combat (KSAC) .....

you mentioned Korean style games, theres a Korean game MMO called Perfect World International, in that MMO there is invisibility that is pure invisibility, you enter stealth and are completely 110% invisible, Perminantly, untill you attack.
you can re enter invisibility at will anytime, even during combat.

eso is FAR easier, at anytime someone can be FORCED out of stealth and Forced out of invisibility, and is almost impossible to re-enter stealth, unless ofcourse you are very skilled in it.
the very skilled stealthers are still easily beatable if you yourself learn how to pull them out of stealth using the various detection methods in eso for seeing stealth, and invisibility casters.

I know of Perfect World. came out in 2005.
never played it. don't think it had very much dedicated PvP it was more akin to Second Life or ArchaeAge. not saying it didn't do good things I could stand to learn from but I wasn't referencing Perfect World when I brought up KMMO.

I had TERA in mind where invisibility is only available to reaper and if you cast a ground aoe on them or otherwise deal damage they are pulled out, also it has a long cooldown.

this is relevant to your reply:

jcm2606 wrote: »

Comparing to other MMO's is wrong as other MMO's generally balance invisibility with cooldowns, significant mechanical risks to the stealthy playstyle, etc, while ESO basically does nothing. A Nightblade who gets pulled out of cloak can easily drop back into cloak with basically no consequence.

furthermore in most other games detection may not be as widely available as it is in ESO, but where it is available it is far more accessible.

every player in ESO can slot a detect.
however the detect will take up a slot that cannot be recovered and outside of a coordinated group where members are given roles, it is simply too much to expect of someone who hasn't l2p

anyways it doesn't make sense that it's a damage cancel so I'm trying my best to ignore except when someone (ab)uses it
even though it is a damage cancel I'm still really stubborn.

Gilvoth wrote: »

heavier wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

heavier wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Learn to drink a detect potion. Sheesh.

I'll do this. btw do these trigger my HP pots?

ApostateHobo wrote: »

It has tons of counters, maybe you should use one if it gives you so much trouble.

Undefwun wrote: »

OP do you ever have fun playing this game? Just asking why you keep playing, because you do nothing but complain, constantly.

Have you played a NB at all? Play one and tell me it's an "I win" button whiners make it out to be...

.... devs consider learning from Korean Style Action Combat (KSAC) .....

you mentioned Korean style games, theres a Korean game MMO called Perfect World International, in that MMO there is invisibility that is pure invisibility, you enter stealth and are completely 110% invisible, Perminantly, untill you attack.
you can re enter invisibility at will anytime, even during combat.

eso is FAR easier, at anytime someone can be FORCED out of stealth and Forced out of invisibility, and is almost impossible to re-enter stealth, unless ofcourse you are very skilled in it.
the very skilled stealthers are still easily beatable if you yourself learn how to pull them out of stealth using the various detection methods in eso for seeing stealth, and invisibility casters.

I know of Perfect World. came out in 2005.
never played it. don't think it had very much dedicated PvP it was more akin to Second Life or ArchaeAge.

it is PURE open world PvP
when i left it had 2 servers, 1 was pure pvp and the other was pve Only.


in eso there is more then 10 ways to pull people out of stealth.
in the other mmo's there is zero.

huh. how often could you renenter invisible?

silkroad online there were a few skills that had no additional cost to slot.
from 2004...right now I'm about to buy a detection pot and see if it triggers my HP potion's CD

I remember they said that one of the big reason for nerfing ward shields is because its not fun playing against it. When I encounter a nightblade who goes into cloak nearly 10 times in a minute I ask myself "so its much less annoying to play against this cloak mechanic then wards?" Or maybe the fact that the combat balance leader's favorite class is a nightblade has to do something with it.

I don't say nerf it but allow a class change!!!! because I like to play with one main (I have 9 others but still I like having a main who has the best potential) and that way I dont have to worry about incorrect nerfs

1 single cloak is not the issue. Cloak + snipe is just dumb. Cloak + every other defensive mechanic is far too powerful.

Ever fought a group 4 wardens in BG who rotate sleet storm ult back to back to back? 4 nbs cloaking is nothing in comparison to some of the cancers that exist in-game.