why don't more people complain about invisibility as a spammable means to completely cancel damage?

TheRealSniker

I like how many people complain about the skill while having insufficient arguments as to why the skill is "broken".

I have never seen anybody on Forums yet that truly knows why this skill can be so strong.
So many people like to complain about it while good magblades and some heavyblades dont even use the skill cause its currently way too unreliable with such low mobility.

Datthaw

I have been saying this for years.

People why complain about cloak do not play nightblade

Roll a nb and come back and talk about how op it is

Roll a magnb and tell me how you survive with 1 nerfed shield and no burst heal and a teleport that is bugged on the y axis

Merlight

Gilvoth wrote: »

no one had a problem with it now for 5 years +

Where have you been? There are thousands of complaints about cloak on theses forums. Perhaps you forgot to use post detection potion.

Slack

Undefwun wrote: »

OP do you ever have fun playing this game? Just asking why you keep playing, because you do nothing but complain, constantly.

Have you played a NB at all? Play one and tell me it's an "I win" button whiners make it out to be...

Maybe nerf it all until his build can compete, or dies less at least.
But yes instead of learning to play, all the OP does is complaining.

Of course cloak is annoying, if an ability can't annoy your target, it's useless.
And that's coming from a guy who has a stamplar called "Hunts Shitblades"

del9

I think the combat system would be better without it. I think many people do.

But we realize that stealth gameplay is too tied in with Elder Scrolls franchise to expect them to remove it. It is also the defining move of one of the classes. So we just save our breath.

Lord_Wrath

I guess its because I ignore them as soon as they run away. BORING.

jaime1982

icontrive wrote: »

Cloak is fine. I’ll tell what will happen though, if anything is changed with cloak where it affects the way it works negatively, eso will lose a lot of players including myself.

So you will only play if you have it your way all the time? You attack first, you disengage first or if you decide you have had enough and run away?

Ragnaroek93

TheRealSniker wrote: »

I like how many people complain about the skill while having insufficient arguments as to why the skill is "broken".

I have never seen anybody on Forums yet that truly knows why this skill can be so strong.
So many people like to complain about it while good magblades and some heavyblades dont even use the skill cause its currently way too unreliable with such low mobility.

Objectively I would say that Cloak is a bit overperforming currently but I'm against a nerf in the current state because it would hit med armor 2h/bow and light armor Nb the most, which I don't think need a nerf. A Cloak nerf would need to come with a buff to med and light armor, otherwise it will just reduce the build diversity even more in favour of tanks because the brawler builds don't even rely much on Cloak.

Also Cloak has plenty of counters and the only scenario there Cloak is really strong is in 1v1 when your opponent doesn't have access to a counter. Every group should have enough AoE to counter Cloak. And the game isn't balanced around 1v1 anyways, right? Otherwise we would have to nerf a lot other things first before touching Cloak.

Zacuel

I run detect potions and inner light. Most times once they realize their cloak isn't working they just roll over and die.

Other times they are still able to fend me off without being able to cloak and I can totally respect that.

Knootewoot

Cloak itself is NOT the issue. Magblades are NOT the issue.

Stamblade however. Medium armor passives however and some medium armors itself.

Cloak works fine, and so do detection potions.

But combine cloak with stamblade, a very mobile hard hitting class.
Add medium armor passives, which reduce stealth detection 5 % per piece.
Then add medium armor sets that reduce stealth detection even more, and yes.. Cloak is suddenly OP.

But it's not cloak. It's everything medium armor and stamblade does.

Aedrion

TheRealSniker wrote: »

I like how many people complain about the skill while having insufficient arguments as to why the skill is "broken".

I have never seen anybody on Forums yet that truly knows why this skill can be so strong.
So many people like to complain about it while good magblades and some heavyblades dont even use the skill cause its currently way too unreliable with such low mobility.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/451170/lets-discuss-cloak#latest

Iskiab

Wow, someone can't use an ability because someone else used an ability. Something must be broken. We should nerf healing too.

brandonv516

Cloak is fine. But some people still don't use the counters.

Watch how useless it is when someone is smart and consumes a detect potion. And what makes those potions really strong, is that as a NB you have no idea that the enemy used one.

Minalan

brandonv516 wrote: »

Cloak is fine. But some people still don't use the counters.

Watch how useless it is when someone is smart and consumes a detect potion. And what makes those potions really strong, is that as a NB you have no idea that the enemy used one.

Except for the big eye on top of the target using it?

Cloak is fine, the only thing that needs to change is the projectile *miss* that happens when you have a detect pot up and the enemy is spamming cloak.

You're under a detect pot, I can see you perfectly, how did that miss?

Aurielle

I stopped complaining about cloak because I mostly play other PVP games these days, and only log into ESO occasionally. *shrug*

Cloak is stupid. The only effective counter is detect pots, which are expensive and largely useless for anything other than BGs. In Cyrodiil, you’re better off running better potions and just dealing with the inevitable ganks. The forumblades will bleat about how “squishy” they are and how “easy” it is to counter cloak until their fingers drop off. It’s not worth your time arguing with them, OP. I encourage you to look elsewhere for balanced PVP, because you’ll never find it in ESO.

heavier

Iskiab wrote: »

Wow, someone can't use an ability because someone else used an ability. Something must be broken. We should nerf healing too.

imagine Neo, instead of stopping bullets midair by holding up his hand just vanished for a second and bullets vanished as well.

heavier

then he reappeared ofc
I understand the semantics of dialing out of the matrix, but that's linked with finding a telephone

icontrive

jaime1982 wrote: »

icontrive wrote: »

Cloak is fine. I’ll tell what will happen though, if anything is changed with cloak where it affects the way it works negatively, eso will lose a lot of players including myself.

So you will only play if you have it your way all the time? You attack first, you disengage first or if you decide you have had enough and run away?

Uhh yeah. It’s kinda cool how life works. You do and pay for what you enjoy and when you are not enjoying it anymore you take your money elsewhere. Just like many of us enjoy the Nightblade playstyle and without cloak would go elsewhere.

JTorus

brandonv516 wrote: »

Cloak is fine. But some people still don't use the counters.

Watch how useless it is when someone is smart and consumes a detect potion. And what makes those potions really strong, is that as a NB you have no idea that the enemy used one.

Shhhhhhhh

technohic

Its annoying but mostly because some other classes have been nerfed and we have soo many NBs now. Its just annoying when you go through more detect pots in a night than you do your main pot because everywhere you go; cloakers.

That said; I don't think a direct nerf is needed. If you play a NB, you can see it is not a guarantee that it will work. What I would like to see is get rid of the eye for detection so we can catch more flies. Increase the radius of camo hunter and radiant magelight to be that of a detect pot. One nerf though, would be any channeled ability removes stealth at the begining of activation. You can leave heavy attacks for magblades but snipes are outside of the range of all the counters. Alternatively to the channel nerf; make flare do like a rapid fire 5 shots that follows where you move your cursor up to 40 meters

Basically make the counters better and give us some way to deal with max range cloaking.

Bubbastic

Why would I complain for that ? There is a detection potion, a mage guild skill for that...
Nightblade is a shadow killer, that's how ZOS created him.. I'm not NB in PVP but I really don't care about that. Learn how to deal with it.
Just use the inner light or pots. Throw caltrops, dunno... There's so much way to detect them

steven22

technohic wrote: »

Its annoying but mostly because some other classes have been nerfed and we have soo many NBs now. Its just annoying when you go through more detect pots in a night than you do your main pot because everywhere you go; cloakers.

That said; I don't think a direct nerf is needed. If you play a NB, you can see it is not a guarantee that it will work. What I would like to see is get rid of the eye for detection so we can catch more flies. Increase the radius of camo hunter and radiant magelight to be that of a detect pot. One nerf though, would be any channeled ability removes stealth at the begining of activation. You can leave heavy attacks for magblades but snipes are outside of the range of all the counters. Alternatively to the channel nerf; make flare do like a rapid fire 5 shots that follows where you move your cursor up to 40 meters

Basically make the counters better and give us some way to deal with max range cloaking.

There are enough counters which are working fine against Cloak . If you cant handle it , maybe you are the problem. Think about that.

Kidgangster101

Heres what stamblades get built into their normal rotation: 10% wpn damage while sneaking, a free CC while sneaking, activation of minor berserk on demand, first attack from stealth is a guaranteed crit, 15 SECONDS of major fracture, major defile, 20% increased damage to target after incap, snare and minor maim (mass hysteria). And if none of that works out for you well just pop a vigor and roll dodge into cloak, where you can then also use rally if you need to burst yourself to full health before you reingage with another incap strike already charged because stamblades also have insanely good ult gen.

So you add that into cloak making ranged moves miss and allows them to do lots of silly things sometimes having so much pressure on someone as they leave stealth that there is no fighting back. #balanced for sure lolol.

Night blades will always come to these forums and defend it. Remember that is the same move that use to wipe debuffs and dots and some idiot night blades still ask for that to come back lol.

Most games don't have a stealth mechanic like this game as they are long cool down moves. Night blades should not be allowed to clock when they enter combat but instead get some more basic survivability outside of cloak.

And I absolutely hate the argument of "use detect potions" lol. So you are telling me a night blade gets to cast a move for free and one of the counters we have is to use these potions that I have to spend my gold on or craft and waste my time farming just to fight a night blade? LOLOL what if you needed to spam items to counter healing rather than having it built into your class while you are in stealth? You guys are silly and don't understand balance.

technohic

steven22 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Its annoying but mostly because some other classes have been nerfed and we have soo many NBs now. Its just annoying when you go through more detect pots in a night than you do your main pot because everywhere you go; cloakers.

That said; I don't think a direct nerf is needed. If you play a NB, you can see it is not a guarantee that it will work. What I would like to see is get rid of the eye for detection so we can catch more flies. Increase the radius of camo hunter and radiant magelight to be that of a detect pot. One nerf though, would be any channeled ability removes stealth at the begining of activation. You can leave heavy attacks for magblades but snipes are outside of the range of all the counters. Alternatively to the channel nerf; make flare do like a rapid fire 5 shots that follows where you move your cursor up to 40 meters

Basically make the counters better and give us some way to deal with max range cloaking.

There are enough counters which are working fine against Cloak . If you cant handle it , maybe you are the problem. Think about that.

Wow. That's so insightful and profound. I should just use that 7 meter detect ability or detect pots that are what? 17 meters to detect someone sniping from 40 M. Totally my bad.

HansProlo

heavier wrote: »

"cloak" should put the caster (slowly) into a semi translucent state
moving ought to increase opacity and standing still will make the player nearly completely invisible
the damage cancel mechanic is so so so so ill conceived that it makes me want to quit the game trying to cast even point blank javelin.
"cloaked" players need to be completely damageable (mist form can remain its own separate brokenness)
doesn't help that all ESO's server processors are perma-throttled, rubberbanded and generally put a nice delay on things, so that the animation indicates the attack landing but a half second the target disappears

how to balance cloak RIGHT NOW
turning it on removes the ability of players to cast NEW skills in your direction via tab targeting system
you can still be hit with light and heavy attacks. any swing or projectile that is already on its way to hit, STILL DOES DAMAGE
no longer will I wind up Dizzying Swing until it's within a millimeter of connecting to have you disappear in an instant, not only from my sight but as though you had logged off and the space you occupy with your toon is EMPTY.
cloak isn't just a cloak, it's a portal to oblivion or some other dimension that exists underneath the netcode where damage doesn't work. given this behavior it would make entire sense for cloak to unlock wallhacks as well.
cloaking will take at least a second to complete, during which time all snares will be removed and snare invuln will be granted as long as cloak is up

cloak turns a moving player around 15-20% transparent.
if a cloaked player stays still for 5 seconds they become completely invisible.

this is a bandaid.

lol. just lol.

what you describe is worse than going sneak. When do you think, in a fight, a player can stand still 5 seconds, to get invisible? I didnt read such a stupid comment ever in any game.


IF this skill needs a balance, and it seems mostly bad players want other classes they suck against "balanced" (because the only balance is, when you beat THEM), than only through magicka cost, but i tell you what. Its already expensive and stamblades need to invest heavy in magicka recovery to spam it. (and they cant damage you while spamming it … so what?)

steven22

technohic wrote: »

steven22 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Its annoying but mostly because some other classes have been nerfed and we have soo many NBs now. Its just annoying when you go through more detect pots in a night than you do your main pot because everywhere you go; cloakers.

That said; I don't think a direct nerf is needed. If you play a NB, you can see it is not a guarantee that it will work. What I would like to see is get rid of the eye for detection so we can catch more flies. Increase the radius of camo hunter and radiant magelight to be that of a detect pot. One nerf though, would be any channeled ability removes stealth at the begining of activation. You can leave heavy attacks for magblades but snipes are outside of the range of all the counters. Alternatively to the channel nerf; make flare do like a rapid fire 5 shots that follows where you move your cursor up to 40 meters

Basically make the counters better and give us some way to deal with max range cloaking.

There are enough counters which are working fine against Cloak . If you cant handle it , maybe you are the problem. Think about that.

Wow. That's so insightful and profound. I should just use that 7 meter detect ability or detect pots that are what? 17 meters to detect someone sniping from 40 M. Totally my bad.

Cloak needs a rework or maybe they should remove this Skill completly. I would not mind cuz i dont use it very often in Pvp.
Maybe cost increase or a mechanic like streak.

But it would be nice if snipe gets a damage decrease.

Svidrir

There are so many people playing Nigth Blade .........

So obviously nobody really complains

Merlight

steven22 wrote: »

Maybe cost increase or a mechanic like streak.

This has been suggested for cloak ever since streak got that spam penalty (like 4 years ago?).

Aurielle

Bubbastic wrote: »

Why would I complain for that ? There is a detection potion, a mage guild skill for that...
Nightblade is a shadow killer, that's how ZOS created him.. I'm not NB in PVP but I really don't care about that. Learn how to deal with it.
Just use the inner light or pots. Throw caltrops, dunno... There's so much way to detect them

Inner Light has a tiny detection radius. Caltrops only works if it lands on the NB (good luck finding the stamNB who threw snipe on you at a distance!). Detect pots are the only worthwhile counter, but even they have serious limitations (cool down, limited range). NBs almost always have the upper hand when people are trying to directly counter cloak.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Most games don't have a stealth mechanic like this game as they are long cool down moves.

Yup. Most games also force stealthed players into melee range by limiting the weapons/abilities they can use and whatnot. I can’t think of any other game that permits players to deal damage while completely invisible at a range of 40m. The only thing that comes close is sniper classes in FPS games, but even then, the players are not actually INVISIBLE. When you spot a sniper in Battlefield, they can’t just disappear into thin air and retreat when they’re discovered.

Again, this is one of the many reasons why I’m playing less PVP in ESO these days and taking my money elsewhere. There are so many class imbalances in this game, and cloak is a big one.

technohic

steven22 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

steven22 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Its annoying but mostly because some other classes have been nerfed and we have soo many NBs now. Its just annoying when you go through more detect pots in a night than you do your main pot because everywhere you go; cloakers.

That said; I don't think a direct nerf is needed. If you play a NB, you can see it is not a guarantee that it will work. What I would like to see is get rid of the eye for detection so we can catch more flies. Increase the radius of camo hunter and radiant magelight to be that of a detect pot. One nerf though, would be any channeled ability removes stealth at the begining of activation. You can leave heavy attacks for magblades but snipes are outside of the range of all the counters. Alternatively to the channel nerf; make flare do like a rapid fire 5 shots that follows where you move your cursor up to 40 meters

Basically make the counters better and give us some way to deal with max range cloaking.

There are enough counters which are working fine against Cloak . If you cant handle it , maybe you are the problem. Think about that.

Wow. That's so insightful and profound. I should just use that 7 meter detect ability or detect pots that are what? 17 meters to detect someone sniping from 40 M. Totally my bad.

Cloak needs a rework or maybe they should remove this Skill completly. I would not mind cuz i dont use it very often in Pvp.
Maybe cost increase or a mechanic like streak.

But it would be nice if snipe gets a damage decrease.

Thats the thing. I dont want cloak outright nerfed. Its not a given that its going to save you and thats why so many bad ones just sit back using snipe. Thats why I suggest making the counters more effective but it still requires you to use them rather than just demolish the playstyle of NB. Good NBs are going to be able to kite around and fight just like any non-cloaking class so a full cloak nerf is just taking away some identity.