Pet scaling

Beardimus · January 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Matriarch is overpowered.

The diffence between scamp AoE damage and Matriach LA was that the scamp gott the AoE affected by CP and the LA of matriach not.

Healing matriach does now far MORE DAMAGE THAN the scamp AOE.

ZoS nerfed scamp by something like 25% in the past when pets was 12 per trial. To situe matriach damage right now, it's stronger than the scamp in theze day.

@Dracane pretty sure u noticed it.

@Checkmath @KenaPKK is the dev want to make the healing pet dealing more damage than the damage one or ZoS just didn't think about the consequenses like always ?

NB : The defensive buff pets get from cps is nice, and it should stay that way. The problem is the offensive CPs scaling on pet's LA. (Matriach LA have bigger tooltip than scamp AoE and now they get the same bonus, here is the reason why matriach deal more damage than scamp. Not even speaking about the Twilight tourmentor, it's damage is CRAZY.

@Aedaryl
I actually did not notice this. I checked it and the scamp was still superior, as his own basic attacks also got stronger. It still deals more damage in my tests with all his attacks combined. Only the twilight tormentor is stronger, but only at specific times as you know. The scamp also still has the benefit of Aoe damage.

And pets do not scale with defensive CP. Haven't you tested this ?

EDIT: I should add I always have 75% into thaumaturge. So my scamp is nicely buffed.

Didn't tested the defensive cps because I don't find people on PTS to test it, but if they didn't make it scale then ZOS are really stupid x)

Even if the scamp deal more TOTAL damage, the fact that the matriach deal more damage than the current live scamp is just overpowered.

Pet sorc will be soon OP in trial again and you know what follow, it's end by a nerf hammer

I don't see the issue. Pets merely function like any other ability now. They they were heavily underpowered in CP pvp because their attacks were mitigated by enemy players defensive CP but had no self CP to compensate.

Please, pets cost 2 SLOTS. They should be strong so they can come close to 2 abilities that I could otherwise have.
It's fair, that's all I can say. You loose enough for using a pet.

While I agree pets on live are not worth it, the new damage lvl of pets is actually too strong. A boost is cool, but that lvl is broken.

It's a matter of time before PvE boys discover it, make DPS test and come here crying to nerf pets...

Do you really think an ability that costs twice the amount of slots, should not be better than an ability that only costs one ?
I think it's balanced. And for this very reason, no crying should be let heard. Pet Sorcerers sacrifise so much bar space and flexibility, they should have something to make up for it.

Same goes for warden by the way. The bear requires 2 slots. Yet, he is not as good as 2 ults. You loose 8% magicka on your frontbar by having the bear.

Spot on. We give up two slots. If we had a spare slot for utility or an extra skill we would make more damage overall.

This is a non-complaint

Derra · January 2019

iCaliban wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Matriarch is overpowered.

The diffence between scamp AoE damage and Matriach LA was that the scamp gott the AoE affected by CP and the LA of matriach not.

Healing matriach does now far MORE DAMAGE THAN the scamp AOE.

ZoS nerfed scamp by something like 25% in the past when pets was 12 per trial. To situe matriach damage right now, it's stronger than the scamp in theze day.

@Dracane pretty sure u noticed it.

@Checkmath @KenaPKK is the dev want to make the healing pet dealing more damage than the damage one or ZoS just didn't think about the consequenses like always ?

NB : The defensive buff pets get from cps is nice, and it should stay that way. The problem is the offensive CPs scaling on pet's LA. (Matriach LA have bigger tooltip than scamp AoE and now they get the same bonus, here is the reason why matriach deal more damage than scamp. Not even speaking about the Twilight tourmentor, it's damage is CRAZY.

@Aedaryl
I actually did not notice this. I checked it and the scamp was still superior, as his own basic attacks also got stronger. It still deals more damage in my tests with all his attacks combined. Only the twilight tormentor is stronger, but only at specific times as you know. The scamp also still has the benefit of Aoe damage.

And pets do not scale with defensive CP. Haven't you tested this ?

EDIT: I should add I always have 75% into thaumaturge. So my scamp is nicely buffed.

Didn't tested the defensive cps because I don't find people on PTS to test it, but if they didn't make it scale then ZOS are really stupid x)

Even if the scamp deal more TOTAL damage, the fact that the matriach deal more damage than the current live scamp is just overpowered.

Pet sorc will be soon OP in trial again and you know what follow, it's end by a nerf hammer

I don't see the issue. Pets merely function like any other ability now. They they were heavily underpowered in CP pvp because their attacks were mitigated by enemy players defensive CP but had no self CP to compensate.

Please, pets cost 2 SLOTS. They should be strong so they can come close to 2 abilities that I could otherwise have.
It's fair, that's all I can say. You loose enough for using a pet.

While I agree pets on live are not worth it, the new damage lvl of pets is actually too strong. A boost is cool, but that lvl is broken.

It's a matter of time before PvE boys discover it, make DPS test and come here crying to nerf pets...

Already tested it. Maybe a 2k dps boost on pts compared to live. (this is in total, mag sorcs lost about 1.5k mag in a pet build, so amplitude/pet buffs resulted in a slight net dps gain.) Scamp is weaker than on live. Matriarch a bit stronger. Tormentor might be viable now.

Nothing OP about it. Stop crying. Pet sorcs desperately needed a pve buff, and this batch of changes is barely enough to keep them competitive for trial spots. They still arent viable for score runs.

To be fair though this is largely related to the current top end pve gear not offering any stats pets scale with.
Pets being 100% magica scaling is what keeps them from being competetive because something like necro simply doesn´t compete with siroria or spell strategist.

Checkmath · January 2019

So did anybody do some actual dps tests so far with pet sorcs on the PTS and compared it to live?

KenaPKK · January 2019

I asked internally a bit before the notes went up whether pets would scale with magicka and spell damage, and the answer I got was no. I have not tested on PTS to see which is the case.

I'll ask again. I assume that since spell damage is not mentioned in the list, and since spell damage isn't considered a "buff" in the technical sense, the answer will still be no. However, I/we did suggest to the dev team that they need to clarify this point before PTS.

Edit: ok yea it looks like pets are not intended to scale with spell damage. Just max magicka. Variation in scaling is the team's goal, but they acknowledge that they need improved messaging on how different attacks scale.

Derra · January 2019

KenaPKK wrote: »

Edit: ok yea it looks like pets are not intended to scale with spell damage. Just max magicka. Variation in scaling is the team's goal, but they acknowledge that they need improved messaging on how different attacks scale.

While it´s ok to have the intention of different scaling - could the team then maybe also provide different variations to vaible endgame gear?

As it stands all endgame pve trial gear is focused around a stats pets do not scale with. This goes for healing/support and dps roles.
It might seem like a minor inconvenience - but after all pets are a whole classtree for sorcs.

Imo it´s problematic to have different scaling in mind but then not provide any suitable gear to reinforce this kind of deviation from the norm (because that´s what it is).
As it stands the only vaible pet dps set is necropotence and that is not competetive for endgame dps anymore as it has been outclassed at this point by various alternatives.

Lord-Otto · January 2019

Dracane wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Again it seems there was "the sky is falling/RIP Pet Sorcs" stuff on the forums which may not exactly be true.

Not been able to get on to test things as yet my OH mains a pet sorc so we'll be testing heavily when i can get back on to PTS.

Those people were right based on what they knew. Loosing 2k magicka and 4% elemental damage would have been a considerable nerf to pets.

Nobody could have known that they allow pets to be more like normal abilities now.
All that's left to do is make them only require 1 slot in reaction to the Overload bar loss, and there is nothing left to complain about.

AI, my dear, AI.

Aldul · January 2019

That's great. Finally. Thanks @Dracane

Dracane · January 2019

@KenaPKK

Clarification on how attacks actually scale is not really what keeps people from using pets.
There is an interesting post on the main forums that came up 2 days ago and has received many replies.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454664/sorc-mains-do-you-like-pets/p1

I don't demand that you read it. Yet I can tell you, literally every second reply says that people don't use them because they cost too many slots.
Do you think Zenimax can tell us if they would consider making pets 1 slot and perhaps temporary summons in return ?

Dracane · January 2019

Pfff I just made the shocking discovery that pets are not affected by armor passives, mainly Concentration from light armor (spell penetration) So my previous statement is not exactly true. Pets still do not scale like other abilities, just almost.

Something about pet damage seems odd anyway. In order to test if their tooltip is true, I tested it against critters who always have 0 resistances. My twilights tooltip says 7340, but her actual damage is 6164. My crystal shard however deals exactly its tooltip damage. So either pet tooltips are still fake like before or they miss out on something.

My theory, is that pets miss 18% damage. Because previously, their tooltip stated a damage number + 18%. Their tooltip has been simplified and I assume the 18% damage was added to the tooltip, yet still not to their actual damage.

Transairion · January 2019

Do you think Zenimax can tell us if they would consider making pets 1 slot and perhaps temporary summons in return ?

I have quite a few concerns with this (despite all the requests for it):

1) Sorc summons are/were unique in being persistent, targetable entities that are able to dish out worthwhile damage on their own (and the whole skill line has morphs to empower them further, IE Daedric Prey). Summon Shade is single bar but has no real damage and limited duration.

Permanent summons have all the strengths and weaknesses of NPC's (can be CC'd), while limited duration summons are really just glorified skill animations since the world can't interact with them at all. If the weaknesses are still there but are now temporary, then they're reduced to fire-and-forget DOT skills that have to suffer from pet pathing issues, being CC'd, killed before they time out etc.

2) The entire Daedric Summoning skill line for Sorcs is based around the pets being as they are, that is being targetable NPC's under the control of the player. Conjured Ward and morphs exist under the skill line because it also shields any pets you have out, if they're untargetable immortals (see above) what's the point of shielding them? If they're untargetable then their damage will be gutted to balance that change, making Daedric Prey a pointless morph.

The Warden was designed to only have the Ultimate summon, and the rest of the Animal Companions skills are just animal-themed spell effects. That's all well and good, but the Sorcerer wasn't designed with that in mind so the whole skill tree would have to be reworked to accommodate changes like that.

3) Probably the most glaring issue is the simplest issue: single barred pets will mean ZOS will balance them under the assumption everyone runs with one on their bars and they'll be nerfed to compensate for that. Is there a reason someone who refuses to run a pet now wouldn't suddenly slap a single-barred Scamp onto their bar as a fire-and-forget DOT ability? "Free damage is free damage" after all and there won't exactly be any cost to throwing any pet on any bar after that change.

I'm not saying pets aren't full of problems still, but single bar is the last thing I want as a pet user now... mainly because the resulting changes aren't going to end up a positive to someone who uses them now. ZOS balances one way or another, gaining single bar pets means losing something else about them: damage, utility or usefulness.

The main idea behind the request for single bar is because summons instantly despawn/die upon bar swapping if they're not also slotted on the other bar, yes? An similar fix to what others have said before could be as simple as:

When players barswap to a bar without their pet/s slotted, any active pets take 10% of their Max HP per second in damage

That's between 1 and 10 seconds of leeway for barswapping before your pet dies, depending on how healthy your pet is and whether they're shielded. Still rewards having your pet slotted rather then summoning it once from the backbar and never touching it again, which I imagine is something people will do with a "true single barred" pet.

Combat pets/summons are my favourite thing in any game that has them, so I'd be really bummed out if ESO pets are reduced to just fancy spell effects like... I dunno, all the other classes in the game? The base game puts NB's as unique stealthers, Templars as unique healers, DK's as unique tanks and Sorcs as unique summoners.

Dracane · January 2019

Transairion wrote: »

Do you think Zenimax can tell us if they would consider making pets 1 slot and perhaps temporary summons in return ?

I have quite a few concerns with this (despite all the requests for it):
1) Sorc summons are/were unique in being persistent, targetable entities that are able to dish out worthwhile damage on their own (and the whole skill line has morphs to empower them further, IE Daedric Prey). Summon Shade is single bar but has no real damage and limited duration.

Permanent summons have all the strengths and weaknesses of NPC's (can be CC'd), while limited duration summons are really just glorified skill animations since the world can't interact with them at all. If the weaknesses are still there but are now temporary, then they're reduced to fire-and-forget DOT skills that have to suffer from pet pathing issues, being CC'd, killed before they time out etc.

2) The entire Daedric Summoning skill line for Sorcs is based around the pets being as they are, that is being targetable NPC's under the control of the player. Conjured Ward and morphs exist under the skill line because it also shields any pets you have out, if they're untargetable immortals (see above) what's the point of shielding them? If they're untargetable then their damage will be gutted to balance that change, making Daedric Prey a pointless morph.

The Warden was designed to only have the Ultimate summon, and the rest of the Animal Companions skills are just animal-themed spell effects. That's all well and good, but the Sorcerer wasn't designed with that in mind so the whole skill tree would have to be reworked to accommodate changes like that.

3) Probably the most glaring issue is the simplest issue: single barred pets will mean ZOS will balance them under the assumption everyone runs with one on their bars and they'll be nerfed to compensate for that. Is there a reason someone who refuses to run a pet now wouldn't suddenly slap a single-barred Scamp onto their bar as a fire-and-forget DOT ability? "Free damage is free damage" after all and there won't exactly be any cost to throwing any pet on any bar after that change.

I'm not saying pets aren't full of problems still, but single bar is the last thing I want as a pet user now... mainly because the resulting changes aren't going to end up a positive to someone who uses them now. ZOS balances one way or another, gaining single bar pets means losing something else about them: damage, utility or usefulness.

The main idea behind the request for single bar is because summons instantly despawn/die upon bar swapping if they're not also slotted on the other bar, yes? An similar fix to what others have said before could be as simple as:

When players barswap to a bar without their pet/s slotted, any active pets take 10% of their Max HP per second in damage

That's between 1 and 10 seconds of leeway for barswapping before your pet dies, depending on how healthy your pet is and whether they're shielded. Still rewards having your pet slotted rather then summoning it once from the backbar and never touching it again, which I imagine is something people will do with a "true single barred" pet.

I never wanted them to be immortal. Making them temporary doesn't mean they have to be immortal. I would have them last for a few minutes. That would still be longer than other classes summons and gaining 1 skill slot is worth the additional maintenance they would require.

Your idea isn't bad either. In this scenario however, i would prefer if pets would just vanish after a set amount of time until you switch back to that bar. Conjured ward on pets has become obnoxiously weak with the changes to shield caps. They are much harder to protect now and still are not affected by warrior CPs. If they were to loose health ever seconds, they would be even easier to destroy.

Transairion · January 2019

I never wanted them to be immortal. Making them temporary doesn't mean they have to be immortal. I would have them last for a few minutes. That would still be longer than other classes summons and gaining 1 skill slot is worth the additional maintenance they would require.

I have a feeling ZOS wouldn't want to have a 1slot pet that also lasts "a long time" (several minutes or until killed), due to having to then balance them around people slotting them on the backbar as a fire-and-forget DOT that's just always kind of there.

Your idea isn't bad either. In this scenario however, i would prefer if pets would just vanish after a set amount of time until you switch back to that bar. Conjured ward on pets has become obnoxiously weak with the changes to shield caps. They are much harder to protect now and still are not affected by warrior CPs. If they were to loose health ever seconds, they would be even easier to destroy.

Do you mean more like are "disabled/CC'd" while on the other bar and reactivate when you switch back, instead of outright dying? Vanishing makes me think of them having to be resummoned again which is why you have to double slot. I could certainly get behind them just going inactive when not on their bar, since while you don't get their damage benefit during that window you don't have to resummon them either. Unless they, er, well die in red at the time.

Pet warding certainly needs to be looked at since it doesn't feel rewarding to shield them anymore.... remember way back when Empowered Ward was named that because it gave a +% damage buff to pets while they had their shield on? It was a nice reason to keep them all cushy and safe...

... and personally Bound Aegis infuriates me being the lone Daedric Summoning skill that doesn't do anything to benefit pets directly outside a +% magicka buff to the user, which pets do scale off. Something more engaging would be nice.

iCaliban · January 2019

KenaPKK wrote: »

I asked internally a bit before the notes went up whether pets would scale with magicka and spell damage, and the answer I got was no. I have not tested on PTS to see which is the case.

I'll ask again. I assume that since spell damage is not mentioned in the list, and since spell damage isn't considered a "buff" in the technical sense, the answer will still be no. However, I/we did suggest to the dev team that they need to clarify this point before PTS.

Edit: ok yea it looks like pets are not intended to scale with spell damage. Just max magicka. Variation in scaling is the team's goal, but they acknowledge that they need improved messaging on how different attacks scale.

Can you ask them to please consider giving us new max mag sets? Necro 5pc is only 3k magicka compared to sirorias current 600 spell damage and spell strategists 500. Pet builds have been left behind by powercreep

Dracane · January 2019

@Transairion

What I meant, is that when I switch from my backbar (where my twilight might be) to my front bar, the pet goes on an 8s death timer or so. If I do not switch bars until then, it dies. If I switch in time, the timer resets.

This is probably too hard for them to code properly. It's the least intrusive method though.
Making them last like 2 minutes when cast, is probably the easiest solution in order to make them 1 slot only.
As I wrote in another thread, they should make them a medium duration with no casttime or a long duration with a casttime.

And I agree, Bound armor needs some meaningful active ability. I am a pve tank and I only use it for the magicka. Even for me, its active ability is not worth it. It's expensive and has a clunky cast. I am better off casting a 2nd damage shield instead of bound armor. Why doesn't bound armor add minor or major protection for a very short time ? Or why doesn't it add a small damage shield every few seconds after being activated ? That would help everyone and would be more fitting for a caster.

katorga · January 2019

KenaPKK wrote: »

Variation in scaling is the team's goal, but they acknowledge that they need improved messaging on how different attacks scale.

Funny, they still don't have it right, "This was aimed at making the stat scaling system easier to understand in the long run; when you increase your own damage, your pets will now follow in scale as such." Kind of misleading for new players.

IMO, they need standardize scaling across the board. All damage/heal abilities should scale off resource/damage, period. Personally, I would scale them ONLY off damage, and use resource solely as resource. All shields should scale of health, period, sizes adjusted to meet dev's balance targets. Obviously, %health heals stay the same.

Without the 3rd bar, the scamp needs to be a single bar, mobile, cc immune, 12-20 second summon, with the AOE starting with a second button press to account for travel time. Clanfear would get its taunt back, allowing it to tank, but be consumed with second button activation providing the heal. Allows for solo tanking, off-tanking, but with on-demand ability to get out of the player tank's way when needed.

The Matriach/ Warden Bear could a 30-60 second summon. Ideally the Matriarch stays in a fixed radius of the caster.

They essentially do this now for the Atro and for set summons, so the basic functionality is already in game. Adjust cost/damage as needed to make it balanced and functional.

Tigerseye · January 2019

Well, I hope it improves things, as they are pretty dire, at the moment, on live.

I just need my pet bear to be where he needs to be all the time, do some damage (level dependent on whether it is DPS specced, or not), take the aggro (how much, again, dependent on spec) and either not die at all, or only very rarely and for there to be a pet heal skill to prevent it happening.

The latter, presumably, being impossible, in this game, as the heal would take up a slot?

Unless they made the heal like the res - slot-free?

You can't have a pet which is (often) not where you need him to be, hits like a wet lettuce, takes no aggro, dies all the time (and that you can't heal), takes half an hour to res (during which time you can perform no other function and are totally vulnerable to attack) and which contains your ultimate.

It's ridiculous.

Also, ideally, it would be nice if you could switch him from tank to DPS spec and back again, at will - pet is not like most other skills, it needs to be flexible, in this way.

In other games, you can switch pets (from a DPS pet to a tanking pet, or vice versa) and/or switch individual pets (from DPS to tank, or vice versa) whenever you like.

Zer0oo · January 2019

@KenaPKK @Checkmath

Can you ask:
Why the only set that is actually intended for pets "Necropotence" does not scale with the % mag increase of CP?

It is confusing since it does not state it anywhere and makes it quite bad balance wise if compared the stam necro "hulking" which does not have any of those conditions.
Not sure what other sets also have that weird scaling but I think "destruction mastery" also does scale with % of the cp.

Checkmath · January 2019

Zer0oo wrote: »

@KenaPKK @Checkmath

Can you ask:
Why the only set that is actually intended for pets "Necropotence" does not scale with the % mag increase of CP?

It is confusing since it does not state it anywhere and makes it quite bad balance wise if compared the stam necro "hulking" which does not have any of those conditions.
Not sure what other sets also have that weird scaling but I think "destruction mastery" also does scale with % of the cp.

You are right, that normal set boni do get amped by cp, but the 5th piece bonus of sets like necro, destruction mastery, hulking draugr, bright-throat, bone-pirate and shacklebreaker do not.

Same goes for the racial passives right now on PTS, which are amped by other percentage numbers, but not by the 20% from the cps.

I surely can bring that up as question to the devs.

katorga · January 2019

Checkmath wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

@KenaPKK @Checkmath

Can you ask:
Why the only set that is actually intended for pets "Necropotence" does not scale with the % mag increase of CP?

It is confusing since it does not state it anywhere and makes it quite bad balance wise if compared the stam necro "hulking" which does not have any of those conditions.
Not sure what other sets also have that weird scaling but I think "destruction mastery" also does scale with % of the cp.

You are right, that normal set boni do get amped by cp, but the 5th piece bonus of sets like necro, destruction mastery, hulking draugr, bright-throat, bone-pirate and shacklebreaker do not.

Same goes for the racial passives right now on PTS, which are amped by other percentage numbers, but not by the 20% from the cps.

I surely can bring that up as question to the devs.

Do you really think that 20% from the cps is going to stay? I doubt it.

Deloth_Vyrr · January 2019

KenaPKK wrote: »

Can you ask them to please consider giving us new max mag sets? Necro 5pc is only 3k magicka compared to sirorias current 600 spell damage and spell strategists 500. Pet builds have been left behind by powercreep

We definitely need them to add a new set, preferably from a trial (so that we can get the minor slayer) that is designed as a replacement for Necro. Necro has grown old and stale.

Checkmath wrote: »

So did anybody do some actual dps tests so far with pet sorcs on the PTS and compared it to live?

Pet sorc on PTS is much more poweful than it is on live. After extensive testing on PTS I've gotten a 4k+ increase in a solo 6mill dummy parse compared to live.

Deloth_Vyrr · January 2019

Aedaryl wrote: »

It's a matter of time before PvE boys discover it, make DPS test and come here crying to nerf pets...

Oh some PVE'rs have already discovered it. It hasn't made petsorc OP, it has made petsorc more competitive.

Yes the Twilight hits like a truck now, but honestly it *should* hit harder than scamp since scamp is AOE and twilight is single only. The higher damage on the Twilight also makes the Tormentor a viable option, cause even with its effect disabled after 50%, the added front-loaded damage is now very large, combined with Amplitude and the result is a very strong opening burst for the class.

As a Pet Sorc main who has taken the build into, and successfully cleared most endgame content, I've spent a great deal of time parsing on PTS and comparing it to my performance on Live.

With the changes I am seeing a total of about 4k dps increase - with my highest 6m solo parses on Live sitting around 48k, I've managed to get a couple 52k parses on PTS. This is as far as I've been able to push Petsorc self-buffed, and while it is really good, I know several magblades and magplars who can still pull even higher numbers than that. However, being within just a couple thousand dps of those classes means Pets are moving into a really good place on PTS, even if we're still not the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmn3wfV-bh8

Aurielle · January 2019

These changes will result in yet another nail in the coffin for fun BGs. Mark my words, every second cheesy premade group will feature four virtually untargetable magsorcs hiding behind a scamp, a twilight, a storm atro, and the Maw of the Infernal proc.

*sigh*

Ozby · January 2019

Aurielle wrote: »

These changes will result in yet another nail in the coffin for fun BGs. Mark my words, every second cheesy premade group will feature four virtually untargetable magsorcs hiding behind a scamp, a twilight, a storm atro, and the Maw of the Infernal proc.

*sigh*

But there is no cp in BG's so things should be the same right?

Aurielle · January 2019

Ozby wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

These changes will result in yet another nail in the coffin for fun BGs. Mark my words, every second cheesy premade group will feature four virtually untargetable magsorcs hiding behind a scamp, a twilight, a storm atro, and the Maw of the Infernal proc.

*sigh*

But there is no cp in BG's so things should be the same right?

How do you figure that?

All pets will now inherit your bonuses and derived stats. This means your Critical Hit Chance, Critical Hit Multipliers, Champion Points, and other % damage or healing amplifications will be applied to any pet you summon. Item sets that summon pets will continue to not inherent your Critical Strike Chance.

The issue with pets in BGs is not their damage, but rather the fact that players kite around them to abuse the targeting system. When petsorcs are in a tight ball and coordinate their ultimates, they’re essentially protected by a big meat shield (on top of their actual magicka shields). ANY buff of any sort to pets, however small, will make this cheese even more popular than it currently is.

Dracane · January 2019

Aurielle wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

These changes will result in yet another nail in the coffin for fun BGs. Mark my words, every second cheesy premade group will feature four virtually untargetable magsorcs hiding behind a scamp, a twilight, a storm atro, and the Maw of the Infernal proc.

*sigh*

But there is no cp in BG's so things should be the same right?

How do you figure that?

All pets will now inherit your bonuses and derived stats. This means your Critical Hit Chance, Critical Hit Multipliers, Champion Points, and other % damage or healing amplifications will be applied to any pet you summon. Item sets that summon pets will continue to not inherent your Critical Strike Chance.

The issue with pets in BGs is not their damage, but rather the fact that players kite around them to abuse the targeting system. When petsorcs are in a tight ball and coordinate their ultimates, they’re essentially protected by a big meat shield (on top of their actual magicka shields). ANY buff of any sort to pets, however small, will make this cheese even more popular than it currently is.

I personally do not need to figure it, because I have tested it.
In theory, pets should remain the same in no CP. In reality, that is true. They are actually potentially weaker in no cp now, because the magicka races loose max magicka.

So there is no reason to use Pets more than before in BGs.

Aurielle · January 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

These changes will result in yet another nail in the coffin for fun BGs. Mark my words, every second cheesy premade group will feature four virtually untargetable magsorcs hiding behind a scamp, a twilight, a storm atro, and the Maw of the Infernal proc.

*sigh*

But there is no cp in BG's so things should be the same right?

How do you figure that?

All pets will now inherit your bonuses and derived stats. This means your Critical Hit Chance, Critical Hit Multipliers, Champion Points, and other % damage or healing amplifications will be applied to any pet you summon. Item sets that summon pets will continue to not inherent your Critical Strike Chance.

The issue with pets in BGs is not their damage, but rather the fact that players kite around them to abuse the targeting system. When petsorcs are in a tight ball and coordinate their ultimates, they’re essentially protected by a big meat shield (on top of their actual magicka shields). ANY buff of any sort to pets, however small, will make this cheese even more popular than it currently is.

I personally do not need to figure it, because I have tested it.
In theory, pets should remain the same in no CP. In reality, that is true. They are actually potentially weaker in no cp now, because the magicka races loose max magicka.

So there is no reason to use Pets more than before in BGs.

I hope you’re right. I’m on console, so I can’t actually test the changes.

Dracane · January 2019

Aurielle wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

These changes will result in yet another nail in the coffin for fun BGs. Mark my words, every second cheesy premade group will feature four virtually untargetable magsorcs hiding behind a scamp, a twilight, a storm atro, and the Maw of the Infernal proc.

*sigh*

But there is no cp in BG's so things should be the same right?

How do you figure that?

All pets will now inherit your bonuses and derived stats. This means your Critical Hit Chance, Critical Hit Multipliers, Champion Points, and other % damage or healing amplifications will be applied to any pet you summon. Item sets that summon pets will continue to not inherent your Critical Strike Chance.

The issue with pets in BGs is not their damage, but rather the fact that players kite around them to abuse the targeting system. When petsorcs are in a tight ball and coordinate their ultimates, they’re essentially protected by a big meat shield (on top of their actual magicka shields). ANY buff of any sort to pets, however small, will make this cheese even more popular than it currently is.

I personally do not need to figure it, because I have tested it.
In theory, pets should remain the same in no CP. In reality, that is true. They are actually potentially weaker in no cp now, because the magicka races loose max magicka.

So there is no reason to use Pets more than before in BGs.

I hope you’re right. I’m on console, so I can’t actually test the changes.

You can trust me on that. I have tested pets in and out and made live comparisons with both game clients open.

Vahrokh · January 2019

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Matriarch is overpowered.

The diffence between scamp AoE damage and Matriach LA was that the scamp gott the AoE affected by CP and the LA of matriach not.

Healing matriach does now far MORE DAMAGE THAN the scamp AOE.

ZoS nerfed scamp by something like 25% in the past when pets was 12 per trial. To situe matriach damage right now, it's stronger than the scamp in theze day.

@Dracane pretty sure u noticed it.

@Checkmath @KenaPKK is the dev want to make the healing pet dealing more damage than the damage one or ZoS just didn't think about the consequenses like always ?

NB : The defensive buff pets get from cps is nice, and it should stay that way. The problem is the offensive CPs scaling on pet's LA. (Matriach LA have bigger tooltip than scamp AoE and now they get the same bonus, here is the reason why matriach deal more damage than scamp. Not even speaking about the Twilight tourmentor, it's damage is CRAZY.

@Aedaryl
I actually did not notice this. I checked it and the scamp was still superior, as his own basic attacks also got stronger. It still deals more damage in my tests with all his attacks combined. Only the twilight tormentor is stronger, but only at specific times as you know. The scamp also still has the benefit of Aoe damage.

And pets do not scale with defensive CP. Haven't you tested this ?

EDIT: I should add I always have 75% into thaumaturge. So my scamp is nicely buffed.

Didn't tested the defensive cps because I don't find people on PTS to test it, but if they didn't make it scale then ZOS are really stupid x)

Even if the scamp deal more TOTAL damage, the fact that the matriach deal more damage than the current live scamp is just overpowered.

Pet sorc will be soon OP in trial again and you know what follow, it's end by a nerf hammer

I don't see the issue. Pets merely function like any other ability now. They they were heavily underpowered in CP pvp because their attacks were mitigated by enemy players defensive CP but had no self CP to compensate.

Please, pets cost 2 SLOTS. They should be strong so they can come close to 2 abilities that I could otherwise have.
It's fair, that's all I can say. You loose enough for using a pet.

While I agree pets on live are not worth it, the new damage lvl of pets is actually too strong. A boost is cool, but that lvl is broken.

It's a matter of time before PvE boys discover it, make DPS test and come here crying to nerf pets...

Totally. ESO cannot bear having pet sorcs anywhere close to competitive!

Dracane · January 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Matriarch is overpowered.

The diffence between scamp AoE damage and Matriach LA was that the scamp gott the AoE affected by CP and the LA of matriach not.

Healing matriach does now far MORE DAMAGE THAN the scamp AOE.

ZoS nerfed scamp by something like 25% in the past when pets was 12 per trial. To situe matriach damage right now, it's stronger than the scamp in theze day.

@Dracane pretty sure u noticed it.

@Checkmath @KenaPKK is the dev want to make the healing pet dealing more damage than the damage one or ZoS just didn't think about the consequenses like always ?

NB : The defensive buff pets get from cps is nice, and it should stay that way. The problem is the offensive CPs scaling on pet's LA. (Matriach LA have bigger tooltip than scamp AoE and now they get the same bonus, here is the reason why matriach deal more damage than scamp. Not even speaking about the Twilight tourmentor, it's damage is CRAZY.

@Aedaryl
I actually did not notice this. I checked it and the scamp was still superior, as his own basic attacks also got stronger. It still deals more damage in my tests with all his attacks combined. Only the twilight tormentor is stronger, but only at specific times as you know. The scamp also still has the benefit of Aoe damage.

And pets do not scale with defensive CP. Haven't you tested this ?

EDIT: I should add I always have 75% into thaumaturge. So my scamp is nicely buffed.

Didn't tested the defensive cps because I don't find people on PTS to test it, but if they didn't make it scale then ZOS are really stupid x)

Even if the scamp deal more TOTAL damage, the fact that the matriach deal more damage than the current live scamp is just overpowered.

Pet sorc will be soon OP in trial again and you know what follow, it's end by a nerf hammer

I don't see the issue. Pets merely function like any other ability now. They they were heavily underpowered in CP pvp because their attacks were mitigated by enemy players defensive CP but had no self CP to compensate.

Please, pets cost 2 SLOTS. They should be strong so they can come close to 2 abilities that I could otherwise have.
It's fair, that's all I can say. You loose enough for using a pet.

While I agree pets on live are not worth it, the new damage lvl of pets is actually too strong. A boost is cool, but that lvl is broken.

It's a matter of time before PvE boys discover it, make DPS test and come here crying to nerf pets...

Totally. ESO cannot bear having pet sorcs anywhere close to competitive!

I just want them to be good in their own right. They will never be as good as other classes in any content. In pvp they do not have the mobility to keep up with object kiting etc. And in pve they die very fast, while in dungeons and trials they are often a burden to people.

So they will never be perfect. But we can make them scale like other abilities do and we can make them worth their 2 slots. Pets will still have enough scenarios where using 2 reliable abilities instead of 1 pet, is better.

Vahrokh · January 2019

Aurielle wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

These changes will result in yet another nail in the coffin for fun BGs. Mark my words, every second cheesy premade group will feature four virtually untargetable magsorcs hiding behind a scamp, a twilight, a storm atro, and the Maw of the Infernal proc.

*sigh*

But there is no cp in BG's so things should be the same right?

How do you figure that?

All pets will now inherit your bonuses and derived stats. This means your Critical Hit Chance, Critical Hit Multipliers, Champion Points, and other % damage or healing amplifications will be applied to any pet you summon. Item sets that summon pets will continue to not inherent your Critical Strike Chance.

The issue with pets in BGs is not their damage, but rather the fact that players kite around them to abuse the targeting system. When petsorcs are in a tight ball and coordinate their ultimates, they’re essentially protected by a big meat shield (on top of their actual magicka shields). ANY buff of any sort to pets, however small, will make this cheese even more popular than it currently is.

"Issue with pets"...

You can use the same "issue" and go behind a pillar or a wall and... voilà the magsorc won't do 1 DPS on you.
I "abused" of this when I ranked in WoW arena as melee, somehow mages etc. didn't ask for pillars to be nerfed

How is playing smart "abusing"? It's not like pets have 10 M health to begin with.