“Passive” Aggression Against the Bosmer... A Letter to the Developers

klowdy1 · January 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

The bosmer detection instead of stealth buff sucks. Detection is pointless outside PVP.

Yeah, if they want to show that bosmers have sharp eyes, then they should add crit chance ("headshots") instead of that detection.. and i think it's also nearly useless in PVP too. 5% crit will do, ZOS ^^

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score#latest

This was still on the front page when I looked for it. This shows bosmer stamblade coming in second in overall dps, based on a 20 parse average, and they are extremely close to orcs, in firs place. Adding 5% crit would be ridiculously OP without also taking something away. You may not like the racials, but they seem to be very powerful, regardless.

That is with buffs while beating on a dummy, it was not in PvP where you have to defend yourself and burst down real players.

It definitely translates into PvP scenarios. Everyone is in the same position they would be in either example. Either everyone is in PvP, or everyone is in PvE. Everyone will be suffering from the same advantages/disadvantages. PvP performance comes down to player skill, and not the race you are playing. I don't think I've ever read someone saying "that orc beat me." Its always "that sorc beat me," or "jabs is mindless and OP."

Kiralyn2000 · January 2019

Yeah, this is the one racial change that sort of annoys me. Because my Bosmer Stamblade is awful at DPS, doesn't pvp, etc... they're sneaky for walking past things and picking pockets and heists. It's a terrible build, stealth is pretty much all it has.

Kalle_Demos · January 2019

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam I agree with Lifeonerth and call on the balance team to consider the impact their choices have on the game and it's players. I sympathize with your situation Lifeonerth and I hope that ESO remains a game worthy of all the time you've invested into it.

Shardaxx · January 2019

I'm in the same boat, I'll try the game after the patch the speed buff after rolling sounds cool but I might end up changing race to khajeet. So much for promoting character diversity, if anything these changes seem to further narrow the viable choices.

firedrgn · January 2019

Aliyavana wrote: »

Im sorry, but I really dislike pvp stealth snipe builds and I wont miss that playstyles interaction with the bosmer racial. I am excited that the speed buff for bosmer will be usable for everyone. Sorry about your irl condition tho.

They are not that big a deal from my experience.. generally go down pretty quick.

Lifeonerth · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

As sorry as i feel for your RL condition - bringing it up in hope to give more weight to your argument victimizing yourself is IMO entirely self centered and not a display of good character.

If you feel the need to bring that up to support an argument - the argument was probably not so good to begin with.

You completely misunderstood my message. I explained my situation to give context and to clarify why this means so much to me. I want people to consider that for many of us this is more than “just” a game. It is easy to dismiss gaming as “trivial” when you don’t understand what is at stake for those of us invested in it for different reasons. How exactly is that “victimizing” myself? I did not, at any point, ask for any form of special treatment or consideration. I do not expect anybody to treat me differently because of my situation. I don’t even tell people about it; the vast majority of my guildmates and the people I play with don’t even know there is anything different about me at all. I don’t want people to know because I *don’t* want to be treated differently. That is one of the main benefits for me of being a part of this community, the fact that to the people I play with, I am just like everybody else. You don’t know how precious that is and I hope for your sake you never have to find out.

Lifeonerth · January 2019

I wrote this letter pretty much right after reading the patch notes for the upcoming changes, so the tone is perhaps a bit stronger than it might otherwise have been. Normally I try to wait to respond to issues with a clearer head and less emotion, but for me this game is incredibly important and well, we are all only human.

I guess the main issue seems to be that they don’t seperately balance PVP and PVE, which seems less than ideal. I’m sure it makes for less work for the developers overall, but for PVP to have such influence on PVE play when so very little of the overall playerbase is actually engaging in PVP play, let alone on a regular basis, seems very unbalanced. When I got an “achievement” recently for a character reaching the entry level rank in Cyrodil, it said that only around 5% of players (on Xbox) have gotten this achievement...just for showing up. The amount of players engaging in regular PVP must therefore be even less.

It is not as if nothing is changed currently for PVP versus PVE play. Once you enter Cyrodil, as I understand, everyone in a given campaign is basically set to the same effective “level” or CP. Given the quite radical difference there is between engaging AI enemies versus actual thinking human beings with complex sets of abilities and tremendous varieties in gear, allocations, etc., it seems to me that it would be very worthwhile to invest in at least some general additional balancing for PVP separately.

But hey, although I have been playing this game for several years now, it was my first MMO and I don’t generally do PVP, so what do I know.

Whatever your perspective, I appreciate those of you who took the time to write thoughtful and considerate replies and those who made an effort to understand my position. I don’t post on forums much because it seems too often the case that polite, mutually respectful civil discourse is in short supply. 💜

Sylvermynx · January 2019

You're a remarkable person. This game isn't really a great game for people with issues - whether the horrible physical ones you deal with or the quite trivial one I have to manage (eh, I live somewhere I love, but there is no "real broadband" only satellite so my ping SUCKS). I understand where you are coming from - empirically, since I don't have to deal with physical issues other than being old.

I hope that you can work through the nerfs to get to the buffs. And - while TES is my go to game since Arena released (1994 for those who may not know) - I have enjoyed my time in other MMOs. WoW worked for me for nearly 7 years (and is far more forgiving as far as playstyle - but if you try it do NOT opt for the "classic" server! You do NOT want to spend 40 levels running before you get a (SLOW) mount! And RIFT as well was much easier to play (and had an engaging story line, though as with WoW it too went in directions I personally didn't find "fun".... but RIFT still has the BEST housing system out there....)

In any case, I wish you the absolute best in your situation. If you just need to talk, you can pm me. I'm non-judgemental and a good listener.

maboleth · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

As sorry as i feel for your RL condition - bringing it up in hope to give more weight to your argument victimizing yourself is IMO entirely self centered and not a display of good character.

If you feel the need to bring that up to support an argument - the argument was probably not so good to begin with.

You know, aside from you trying to sound like a smart-ass that "cracked" the sublime message of this post and HAD to spread the word, despite being "sorry", showing compassion or understanding to anyone that's chronically ill wouldn't hurt, you know. What you did was just awfully rude and I'm 99% sure you would never do that in rl.

maboleth · January 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

In any case, I wish you the absolute best in your situation. If you just need to talk, you can pm me. I'm non-judgemental and a good listener.

See Derra, this ^^ person above is remarkable. Shown so much higher values outside of petty game talk. Sit and listen before accusing anyone, especially someone with illness.

Sylvermynx · January 2019

maboleth wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

In any case, I wish you the absolute best in your situation. If you just need to talk, you can pm me. I'm non-judgemental and a good listener.

See Derra, this ^^ person above is remarkable. Shown so much higher values outside of petty game talk. Sit and listen before accusing anyone, especially someone with illness.

Oboy.... you made me blush. I wasn't trying to "be a better person".... but every one of us has things we have to deal with IRL. I am just hoping to make someone else's road.... smoother.... in some way or other. And for me personally, the game does that. I don't have the major physical issues as the OP - but when I say "old" I'm not kidding. I'm 71 - and some things that were easy 20 years ago.... well... they aren't now for sure.

Anyway, thanks @maboleth - people like you are why I don't give up hope for humanity. We are all in this world together; we NEED to give each other a break.

Kalle_Demos · January 2019

maboleth wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

In any case, I wish you the absolute best in your situation. If you just need to talk, you can pm me. I'm non-judgemental and a good listener.

See Derra, this ^^ person above is remarkable. Shown so much higher values outside of petty game talk. Sit and listen before accusing anyone, especially someone with illness.

We could use more remarkable people. Some came to the thread for the sole purpose of dismissing the OPs concerns. Not everything is about math or PVP vs PVE. Lore matters to a great many players and is why Zos takes it into consideration with everything they do and why this feedback and criticism is important. It would have been easy to fill Elsweyr with generic Khajiit but for the first time in any ES game we are seeing the Khajiit in the wide spectrum of forms they're born in.

TheTraveler · January 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

You’re not going to like this but here’s what I’ll say. First the devs have decided to balance PvE and PvP together. As far as we know this will not change and sacrifices are made on both sides. Stealth in PvP is very powerful with the way bow and NB skills interact. 10% extra wpn damage from sneak from NB passives, 10% extra damage from stealth from Bosmer passives, minor berserk on demand, reduced detection radius, these are very, very powerful passives in PvP when it comes to bow gank builds and they were stacking to produce some really OP hits when people combined Bosmer with stamina NB class. ZOS knows this and this is one step at scaling back that kind of damage. You’ll stilll be able to play a stealth bow style, still have access to the wpn damage boost and minor berserk from the NB class, the only thing that changes is that you now need a set of you want additional powerful effects and that make sense. To be fair the stealth detection reversal doesn’t make a ton of sense to me, but stealth gameplay in PvP has become way too easy. You’ve already got access to cloak. If you want further abilty to stealth then I think it’s fair to ask that you use a set bonus.

Why do you assume that all Bosmer are necessarily NB's? I need stealth on my Bosmer for PVE purposes, and she isn't a NB. I use my Kahjiit NB for PVP. PVP and PVE are totally different setups, and I'm tired of dedicated PVPers looking down at PVE'ers. Why is there even a PVE component to the game if all we're supposed to do is PVP?

Oh, and believe me, with thievery stealth detection is far more important than in PVP where there's generally more space to maneuver. In PVE you have to get pretty close to steal, and you really need good stealth to do those thieving raid Thieve's guild quests.

Bladewizard · January 2019

I feel for you Lifeonerth, you have my sympathy. I too live life from the corner of my room so I know how much it sucks. I also get real attatched to the toons that allow me to escape this room. This change, taking away stealth reduction from bosmer means I have to change 8 characters to khajit, if I want to continue to play them the way I like. Most of those I have been playing for years. I have backstories made up in my head from spending hours beyond count playing this game. Not too sure it is worth it if I have to change them all to cats.

Androconium · January 2019

Yasha wrote: »

a hybrid turd.

I lolled. Doesn't happen often. thx.

Androconium · January 2019

still smiling subconciously

Uryel · January 2019

Aliyavana wrote: »

Im sorry, but I really dislike pvp stealth snipe builds and I wont miss that playstyles interaction with the bosmer racial. I am excited that the speed buff for bosmer will be usable for everyone.

I'm sorry, but the change will make those snipe builds even more annoying for you.

What is the best way way to dispose of a sniper ? To sneak upon them and backstab them. Which you won't be able to do so ealisy anymore since they will see you coming, now. That's actually the only use of the stealth detection bonus the Bosmers will get.

On the other hands... If you want an even stealthier sniper, be Khajiit. By their racial passive alone, they will outperform what is currently live.

Uryel · January 2019

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

I do plan to change my Stamblade's race into Khajiit, but only because right now I have like ALL wrong passives xD, I like cats and I steal a lot in game. But if I played as a Bosmer, I'd keep it, especially since in PvP zones it's also beneficial too see stealthed enemy before they see you.

Okay, what do you suggest to someone who doesn't PvP at all, then ? Switch to khajiit just for the stats, and to hell with the character's identity ?