@John_Falstaff Pls download the f*** PTS and test it yourself. It is that easy to sustain with that changes.
And pls, link me a parse where you get 400 regen from that single glyph!

Gigasax wrote: »

@John_Falstaff Pls download the f*** PTS and test it yourself. It is that easy to sustain with that changes.
And pls, link me a parse where you get 400 regen from that single glyph!

I HAVE. My stam sorc can feel it my friend. I play the PTS everytime a new one comes out.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Gigasax , already linked it in some other thread a while ago, and you can find those parses all over the place. Stamina damage gets about 200 stamina/s on a real parse (theoretical maximum is higher) from infused absorb stamina glyph on bow, which is 400 regen; if it comes as surprise to you, you're not playing stamina. Only now, you have a choice of either losing damage with front bar enchants, or losing that regen.

soo... i have done TTT and IR on my Stamplar, and probably every other endgame content in the whole game on other stamina classes, just FYI. But yeah i´m not playing stamina xD
BTW, i just looked into some (about 10) parses at Rakhat or similar bosses. The most i got out of my absorb glyph was 103 Stam/s.

Maybe i did not need that regen to be a good stamina player

Why not just add new passives to weapon skill lines for precision balance.

I think greatsword enchantment should do more damage.
Dual wield should do less damage but offer greater mobility.
1H/Shield should stay as it is.

Gigasax wrote: »

@John_Falstaff you want to compare an infused absorb glyph on a bow to a frontbar one? (btw i played that glyph on front)

@LiquidPony Deadly Strike buffs almost every stam skill (Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Rending Dot, Rapid Strikes (prob the best choice for stamsorc and stamdk), Trap Dot, Caltrops, Jabs and PotL procc for Templar, Hurricane for Stamsorc, every class skill from DK´s). BTW it also affects Relequen.
Only on Warden and NB it is not worth slotting.

You cant just put it on your backbar... Here is why. The absorb glyph does less damage than other glyphs. This is circumvented by the fact I can run infused and run 2 enchants on the frontbar. And while I couldn't seem to find a way to run this on the front bar. I cannot simply put my consistently procing (one actually decent) infused enchant on my back bar for way less damage.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Side note: I threw a Deadly Strikes helm/shoulder on (replacing Velidreth) and Maelstrom DW and hit a bit higher than I hit with any of the other setups, although not by enough to say that it's definitely better.

^^^ That. I've been testing it all day on my stamDK and it's performing better than other setups for me, too. don't want to derail this discussion, so I will post my findings in a new thread.

Anyways back to the topic at hand. Um probably best to not derail while this change is in it’s current state. Either for or against the particular method of nerf.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

If nothing else, the ability to run one FULL enchant needs to be an option somehow. And yes, you now need to cut the amount of tempers in half. The excuse used to be you could run two full powered enchants and that’s no longer the case.

Masel wrote: »

In the end we told them about the fact that s&b players wont like it.

Dual wield was quite a bit of dps ahead from 2h and bow, which shouldn't be that much now. That is the reason for this change.

Your proposition of elitism being the cause doesn't make sense...

For the last *** time, 2H doesn’t lack in DPS because of enchants.

Yes, 2h is not behind just because of the enchants but enchants were a big part of it, you are mistaken if you don't see that. Really, all they have to do now is make it so that the bleed from cleave is 50% stronger on the target closest to you, like sweeps/jabs, and single target DPS from 2h will be in almost the same, though still lower.

Okay sure let’s say that those are the only two changes needed (I really don’t know if that’s the case and it seems unlikely), but first we’re in the process of nerfing bleeds so adding 50% damage to a bleed rn seems like a counterproductive action so the changes to 2H skills need more work that something simple like that. Secondly let’s assume that this change was made to shift the meta away from DW not just in PvE but also in PvP, and in that case I can definitely tell you (and I’m sure you already know) that 2H skills are NOT lacking because of an enchant in PvP. Brawler is more or less useless, dizzy swing targeting is trash, wrecking blow isn’t even worth mentioning, and gap closers are a shadow of their former glory except on a few niche builds or for Xv1ers who like to chase people down. My point being that nerfing DW was not the way to go. It wasn’t adding an unnecessary amount of damage, magicka builds have their spot firmly in top tier DPS and as I said 2H needs work that has nothing to do with enchants. The change doesn’t make sense and seems to be more of a bandaid fix. Not to mention it sucks you can’t get the full effect of one enchant and it still costs twice as many tempers even though wpn damage is only slightly higher with DW.

I’m not going to go into whether enchants should be balanced between dual wield and two handed no matter what this will result in a nerf to dual wield.

But, if the goal is to make enchants balance between dual wield and two handed, then I think the proposed change on PTS is the wrong way to go about it. As stated by many previously, the problem with simply halving the strength of one handed enchants means that if dual wielding you lose out when using things like berserker, crushing or absorb glyphs as two half strength enchants is weaker than one full strength enchant. It is also a straight up nerf to sword and shield.

A potentially better way to achieve the desired balance would be to leave one handed enchants strength unchanged but make enchant procs for dual wield share cooldown (even if the enchants are different), with the caveat that they will always proc alternating so both occur. This would effectively halve the current proc rate for dual wield, but also mean using two of the same enchant is no longer strictly worse than two different enchants (which is currently the case as two of the same enchants share cooldown).

Ie: If dual wielding two infused weapons with two different enchants, say absorb stamina and poison, you would get procs as follows
Absorb stamina – 2 sec cooldown – Poison – 2 sec cooldown – repeat
Or if you had two of the same, say two absorb stamina
Absorb stamina #1 – 2 sec cooldown – Absorb stamina #2 – 2 sec cooldown – repeat

The effects of this change would be as follows:
1) Enchantment strength is more balanced between dual wield and two handed. Ie: you get exactly the same total enchant proc rate and strength with dual wield and two handed by putting the same enchant on both dual wield weapons, or alternatively you can have half the proc rate on two different enchants.
2) Infused trait is more balanced between dual wield and two handed. Ie: to get the equivalent of an infused two hander you would have to make both dual wield weapons infused, whereas running something like nirn/infused would be a reduced overall enchant proc rate vs infused two hander.
3) Sword and shield would effectively be unchanged from live, so would still have access to a full strength enchant and be balanced with dual wield and two handed.
4) There would be a slight weird effect if using two enchants with different cooldowns as in this case it wouldn’t simply be a half proc rate for both enchants vs current live due to the alternating nature (one would be more than halved rate, while the other would be less than halved rate).
5) There would be an additional slight nerf to dual wield burst as you would no longer be able to proc the two enchants on two subsequent attacks (or with something like twin slashes). But this would still be in line with two handed.

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

I’m not going to go into whether enchants should be balanced between dual wield and two handed no matter what this will result in a nerf to dual wield.

But, if the goal is to make enchants balance between dual wield and two handed, then I think the proposed change on PTS is the wrong way to go about it. As stated by many previously, the problem with simply halving the strength of one handed enchants means that if dual wielding you lose out when using things like berserker, crushing or absorb glyphs as two half strength enchants is weaker than one full strength enchant. It is also a straight up nerf to sword and shield.

A potentially better way to achieve the desired balance would be to leave one handed enchants strength unchanged but make enchant procs for dual wield share cooldown (even if the enchants are different), with the caveat that they will always proc alternating so both occur. This would effectively halve the current proc rate for dual wield, but also mean using two of the same enchant is no longer strictly worse than two different enchants (which is currently the case as two of the same enchants share cooldown).

Ie: If dual wielding two infused weapons with two different enchants, say absorb stamina and poison, you would get procs as follows
Absorb stamina – 2 sec cooldown – Poison – 2 sec cooldown – repeat
Or if you had two of the same, say two absorb stamina
Absorb stamina #1 – 2 sec cooldown – Absorb stamina #2 – 2 sec cooldown – repeat

The effects of this change would be as follows:
1) Enchantment strength is more balanced between dual wield and two handed. Ie: you get exactly the same total enchant proc rate and strength with dual wield and two handed by putting the same enchant on both dual wield weapons, or alternatively you can have half the proc rate on two different enchants.
2) Infused trait is more balanced between dual wield and two handed. Ie: to get the equivalent of an infused two hander you would have to make both dual wield weapons infused, whereas running something like nirn/infused would be a reduced overall enchant proc rate vs infused two hander.
3) Sword and shield would effectively be unchanged from live, so would still have access to a full strength enchant and be balanced with dual wield and two handed.
4) There would be a slight weird effect if using two enchants with different cooldowns as in this case it wouldn’t simply be a half proc rate for both enchants vs current live due to the alternating nature (one would be more than halved rate, while the other would be less than halved rate).
5) There would be an additional slight nerf to dual wield burst as you would no longer be able to proc the two enchants on two subsequent attacks (or with something like twin slashes). But this would still be in line with two handed.

Czekoludek wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam you should see @ExistingRug61 post! Great change for this big nerf

Right.