Curse Eater.

templesus · January 2019

It’s been brought up numerous times and talked about extensively on the Discords, this set needs to go. If it goes live as is the state of the game meta will shift from sustained damage via dots (healthy) to just glass cannon 1 shot builds (cancer) because you won’t be able to kill anybody anyway else.

Don’t get me started on how it can purge CCs off of you.

Any argument in defense of this set is null. It can be stacked via multiple users and will passively proc from any heal over time. Furthermore it prioritizes damage before status effects and debuffs, making it even more optimal to negate damage.

Please ZOS. This patch is good. The first time I’ve thought this in a millennia. Please, please don’t let this one set go live and make it bad.

jcm2606 · January 2019

Purges that are on such a fast automatic trigger should not exist. End of. It cannot be compared to other sets.

Wyrd Tree? 5 negative effects every 15 seconds. In that same 15 second period, Curse Eater could remove 7 effects, beating Wyrd Tree in how many effects it can remove. Additionally, since Wyrd Tree only removes effects every 15 seconds, there's opportunity to burst your opponent down before it has a chance to proc. Curse Eater? Every 2 seconds, 2 effects are being removed. Imagine that on a DOT-heavy build.

Stendarr's Embrace? 5 negative effects every 30 seconds. Same amount of effects as Wyrd Tree, double the cooldown, so the amount of effects Curse Eater could remove doubles to 15. Same story here, too. An opportunity to burst your opponent down before it has a chance to proc.

Either the condition needs to be seriously reworked to not make it so damn easy to proc, or the cooldown needs to go way the hell up. 2 effects every 2 seconds is absurdly broken, and it's insane that people are defending it.

Wuuffyy · January 2019

It should. You want your temporary solution to the snare and snipe builds. This is the way.

jcm2606 · January 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

It should. You want your temporary solution to the snare and snipe builds. This is the way.

I would much rather a solution that doesn't screw literally everything else involving negative effects, including DOT's, status effects, and my bloody healing as a magDK.

We also don't need anymore bandaid fixes. For the love of god, stop with the bandaid fixes. Just *** rework the movement system. Make snares subtractive, so they don't punish faster moving builds disproportionately more than slower moving builds. Dial back the numbers on all snares so a snare on a damn spammable DOT doesn't cripple my movement speed. Rework roots to have some sort of cooldown or diminishing returns.

Feanor · January 2019

The real question is: Is this a Wrobel set or a Wheeler set? If this (and Icy Conjuror) are a leftover from a now past era, then I’m not worried. If Mr. Wheeler however genuinely wants to carry on with that path, then I’m worried.

Edit: Typo

jcm2606 · January 2019

Feanor wrote: »

The real question is: Is this a Wrobel set of a Wheeler set? If this (and Icy Conjuror) are a leftover from a now past era, then I’m not worried. If Mr. Wheeler however genuinely wants to carry on with that path, then I’m worried.

This is also what I'm curious about, but unfortunately I don't think we'll receive an official answer. I assume Wheeler is still getting situated, and likely doesn't have complete control over the team quite yet, until Zenimax sorts things out internally regarding Wrobel's leaving and Wheeler moving to a different position in the studio. So I assume these sets were probably in the works for a while, and Wheeler probably has had no say in them.

Zelos · January 2019

No I dont like dots meta so I'd rather be able to purge them:) You dont want to duel it fine ban it from your little tournaments like everything else. Let the 1vX original players use the set. Plus I have no idea what you mean, we are in a burst + sustained dot meta. At least take 1 of them out:)

DivineFirstYOLO · January 2019

Zelos wrote: »

No I dont like dots meta so I'd rather be able to purge them:) You dont want to duel it fine ban it from your little tournaments like everything else. Let the 1vX original players use the set. Plus I have no idea what you mean, we are in a burst + sustained dot meta. At least take 1 of them out:)

Yeah? How are you going to kill a DK with curse eater + wings on a mag sorc? If you can't give a reliable answer on how to win this 1on1 then you obviously can't 1vX people using this set either.
Do you know the priority list for purge? Which skills/effects have the highest priority to be purged?

You don't need to test a set - that purges 2 negative effects every 2 damn seconds for you while all you have to do is keep mutagen up - to be able to see how overpowered this is.

Juhasow · January 2019

templesus wrote: »

It’s been brought up numerous times and talked about extensively on the Discords, this set needs to go. If it goes live as is the state of the game meta will shift from sustained damage via dots (healthy) to just glass cannon 1 shot builds (cancer) because you won’t be able to kill anybody anyway else.

Don’t get me started on how it can purge CCs off of you.

Any argument in defense of this set is null. It can be stacked via multiple users and will passively proc from any heal over time. Furthermore it prioritizes damage before status effects and debuffs, making it even more optimal to negate damage.

Please ZOS. This patch is good. The first time I’ve thought this in a millennia. Please, please don’t let this one set go live and make it bad.

Susiatned dmg via dots is healthy lol. So bleeds+posions+viper/sheer venom etc memes are healthy ? Good one. Also it looks like people dont realize that builds with the highest amount of negative effects through DoTs and etc will be affected the least by that set. It's builds like magsorcs that have 2-3 negative effects at once on enemy that will suffer the most and those builds are many times 1 shot burst builds so yeah great deduction sherlock. This set in unhealthy but same as current state of the game and what I think happened is that devs tried to resolve issue with all those builds that were able to overpower someone in 2-3 seconds just by applying multiple debuffs with DoTs , snares etc and take total control over the fight at thje beggining. I think that in developers heads that set provides more unexpected results so disalows those builds with high control through debuffs to have that insane amount of control. Problem is by the procces it can also screw few builds that are not having that many debuffs and those they have are key part of their playstyle.

ChunkyCat · January 2019

templesus wrote: »

It’s been brought up numerous times and talked about extensively on the Discords, this set needs to go. If it goes live as is the state of the game meta will shift from sustained damage via dots (healthy) to just glass cannon 1 shot builds (cancer) because you won’t be able to kill anybody anyway else.

Don’t get me started on how it can purge CCs off of you.

Any argument in defense of this set is null. It can be stacked via multiple users and will passively proc from any heal over time. Furthermore it prioritizes damage before status effects and debuffs, making it even more optimal to negate damage.

Please ZOS. This patch is good. The first time I’ve thought this in a millennia. Please, please don’t let this one set go live and make it bad.

Well, if they’re glass cannons, you should be able to beat them easily. If you can be one shot now, you’re still going to be one shot with or without new Curse Eater.

People always telling others to “slot purge and git gud”, but then complain about more accessible purges.

I don’t get the argument.

Derra · January 2019

jcm2606 wrote: »

Purges that are on such a fast automatic trigger should not exist. End of. It cannot be compared to other sets.

Wyrd Tree? 5 negative effects every 15 seconds. In that same 15 second period, Curse Eater could remove 7 effects, beating Wyrd Tree in how many effects it can remove. Additionally, since Wyrd Tree only removes effects every 15 seconds, there's opportunity to burst your opponent down before it has a chance to proc. Curse Eater? Every 2 seconds, 2 effects are being removed. Imagine that on a DOT-heavy build.

Stendarr's Embrace? 5 negative effects every 30 seconds. Same amount of effects as Wyrd Tree, double the cooldown, so the amount of effects Curse Eater could remove doubles to 15. Same story here, too. An opportunity to burst your opponent down before it has a chance to proc.

Just fyi:

It can remove 15 effects in the same timeframe as wyrd tree - 3 times as much + 1000 magica on top.
It can remove 30 effects in the same timeframe as stendarr (albeit only looking at a single player here - you need to purge 6 people for stendarr to be on the same level as curseeater).

jcm2606 · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Purges that are on such a fast automatic trigger should not exist. End of. It cannot be compared to other sets.

Wyrd Tree? 5 negative effects every 15 seconds. In that same 15 second period, Curse Eater could remove 7 effects, beating Wyrd Tree in how many effects it can remove. Additionally, since Wyrd Tree only removes effects every 15 seconds, there's opportunity to burst your opponent down before it has a chance to proc. Curse Eater? Every 2 seconds, 2 effects are being removed. Imagine that on a DOT-heavy build.

Stendarr's Embrace? 5 negative effects every 30 seconds. Same amount of effects as Wyrd Tree, double the cooldown, so the amount of effects Curse Eater could remove doubles to 15. Same story here, too. An opportunity to burst your opponent down before it has a chance to proc.

Just fyi:

It can remove 15 effects in the same timeframe as wyrd tree - 3 times as much + 1000 magica on top.
It can remove 30 effects in the same timeframe as stendarr (albeit only looking at a single player here - you need to purge 6 people for stendarr to be on the same level as curseeater).

Right, ***, I forgot the 2 effect purge, so it's basically 1:1 with the duration. That's even *** worse. Jesus christ.

Skander · January 2019

The big thing is: You don't need anything but a heal overtime to proc curse eater, when in the other hand you need to be active to proc the others

FraPal93 · January 2019

templesus wrote: »

It’s been brought up numerous times and talked about extensively on the Discords, this set needs to go. If it goes live as is the state of the game meta will shift from sustained damage via dots (healthy) to just glass cannon 1 shot builds (cancer) because you won’t be able to kill anybody anyway else.

Don’t get me started on how it can purge CCs off of you.

Any argument in defense of this set is null. It can be stacked via multiple users and will passively proc from any heal over time. Furthermore it prioritizes damage before status effects and debuffs, making it even more optimal to negate damage.

Please ZOS. This patch is good. The first time I’ve thought this in a millennia. Please, please don’t let this one set go live and make it bad.

LOL, can you explain me how exactly the glass cannon builds are "cancer" and the dot builds are "legit"? Dude if you want to wear this set you have to drop another one then you won't be so "cancer". This is an amazing set to counter a specific type of build, not every build = it is NOT overperformig. The fact that unfortunately this set will counter your amazing stamina bleeding build that you are currently using does not make this set OP

.

Let's try to be a bit more objective and we will see more diversity in this game, more play styles and hopefully not a game full of stamina user with dots how it currently is.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · January 2019

templesus wrote: »

It’s been brought up numerous times and talked about extensively on the Discords, this set needs to go. If it goes live as is the state of the game meta will shift from sustained damage via dots (healthy) to just glass cannon 1 shot builds (cancer) because you won’t be able to kill anybody anyway else.

Don’t get me started on how it can purge CCs off of you.

Any argument in defense of this set is null. It can be stacked via multiple users and will passively proc from any heal over time. Furthermore it prioritizes damage before status effects and debuffs, making it even more optimal to negate damage.

Please ZOS. This patch is good. The first time I’ve thought this in a millennia. Please, please don’t let this one set go live and make it bad.

Oh look... another thread providing no actual evidence.
If we're comparing sets in that way then Bone Pirate's is almost twice as good for recovery as every other set.... IMMEDIATELY NERF IT. See how stupid that argument is? That is LITERALLY what yours reads like.

It doesn't matter how many threads you make to throw tantrums like young children (that is LITERALLY what the community is trying). I keep saying that if it's so "OP AND BROKEN OMG LOL" then where is the video evidence?
Where's the stamDK going hell for leather with bleeds, snares, dots and poisons and getting nowhere??
Where's the spin to win warden slamming a big combo loading up all those negative effects and getting nowhere??

Week 1 of Murkmire there was literally vids EVERYWHERE showing how broken Soldier of Anguish was.

So far in this one.....

*tumbleweed drifts by*

Why is that?

jaws343 · January 2019

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

It’s been brought up numerous times and talked about extensively on the Discords, this set needs to go. If it goes live as is the state of the game meta will shift from sustained damage via dots (healthy) to just glass cannon 1 shot builds (cancer) because you won’t be able to kill anybody anyway else.

Don’t get me started on how it can purge CCs off of you.

Any argument in defense of this set is null. It can be stacked via multiple users and will passively proc from any heal over time. Furthermore it prioritizes damage before status effects and debuffs, making it even more optimal to negate damage.

Please ZOS. This patch is good. The first time I’ve thought this in a millennia. Please, please don’t let this one set go live and make it bad.

Oh look... another thread providing no actual evidence.
If we're comparing sets in that way then Bone Pirate's is almost twice as good for recovery as every other set.... IMMEDIATELY NERF IT. See how stupid that argument is? That is LITERALLY what yours reads like.

It doesn't matter how many threads you make to throw tantrums like young children (that is LITERALLY what the community is trying). I keep saying that if it's so "OP AND BROKEN OMG LOL" then where is the video evidence?
Where's the stamDK going hell for leather with bleeds, snares, dots and poisons and getting nowhere??
Where's the spin to win warden slamming a big combo loading up all those negative effects and getting nowhere??

Week 1 of Murkmire there was literally vids EVERYWHERE showing how broken Soldier of Anguish was.

So far in this one.....

*tumbleweed drifts by*

Why is that?

If you cannot realize how broken a set that provides the same benefit of Purge, a 5000 Cost skill if you are using efficient, every 2 seconds, then you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. If you take the duration of Mutagen, 20 seconds, and cast purge every two seconds, you are cleansing 20 negative effects at a cost of 50K magicka. This set, at the cost of 2100 magicka for Mutagen, will cleanse the same 20 effects over that duration. You don't have to compare this to underused sets, you don't need a video proving this to be the case, it is simple math. And a 2K magicka cost compared to a 50K magicka cost for the same effects is completely overpowered. Period.

Oh, and I forgot. You also gain 150 magicka every time this procs. So over 20 seconds, you return 1500 magicka. Meaning that by the end of the proc, it only cost you 600 net magicka to remove 20 effects... 600, comapared to 50K...

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · January 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

It’s been brought up numerous times and talked about extensively on the Discords, this set needs to go. If it goes live as is the state of the game meta will shift from sustained damage via dots (healthy) to just glass cannon 1 shot builds (cancer) because you won’t be able to kill anybody anyway else.

Don’t get me started on how it can purge CCs off of you.

Any argument in defense of this set is null. It can be stacked via multiple users and will passively proc from any heal over time. Furthermore it prioritizes damage before status effects and debuffs, making it even more optimal to negate damage.

Please ZOS. This patch is good. The first time I’ve thought this in a millennia. Please, please don’t let this one set go live and make it bad.

Oh look... another thread providing no actual evidence.
If we're comparing sets in that way then Bone Pirate's is almost twice as good for recovery as every other set.... IMMEDIATELY NERF IT. See how stupid that argument is? That is LITERALLY what yours reads like.

It doesn't matter how many threads you make to throw tantrums like young children (that is LITERALLY what the community is trying). I keep saying that if it's so "OP AND BROKEN OMG LOL" then where is the video evidence?
Where's the stamDK going hell for leather with bleeds, snares, dots and poisons and getting nowhere??
Where's the spin to win warden slamming a big combo loading up all those negative effects and getting nowhere??

Week 1 of Murkmire there was literally vids EVERYWHERE showing how broken Soldier of Anguish was.

So far in this one.....

*tumbleweed drifts by*

Why is that?

If you cannot realize how broken a set that provides the same benefit of Purge, a 5000 Cost skill if you are using efficient, every 2 seconds, then you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. If you take the duration of Mutagen, 20 seconds, and cast purge every two seconds, you are cleansing 20 negative effects at a cost of 50K magicka. This set, at the cost of 2100 magicka for Mutagen, will cleanse the same 20 effects over that duration. You don't have to compare this to underused sets, you don't need a video proving this to be the case, it is simple math. And a 2K magicka cost compared to a 50K magicka cost for the same effects is completely overpowered. Period.

I understand that this set will need to change. I've even suggested what i think the change should be MULTIPLE TIMES.

What i don't understand is that last patch we got it so right. We said "Soldier of Anguish is OP" and we went on PTS, got the videos to show it (how it screwed MagDK heals, Templar heals etc) and said "Here ZOS and Reps. HERE is how broken it is"

This patch the community has gone back to fearmongering and shouting with no evidence. That's what most of us have been asking for. Plain, Bang to rights EVIDENCE. Then we can make a thread that literally links the vids and say "here ZOS, here reps. HERE is just how broken it is."

DeadlyRecluse · January 2019

1. I think that in many, many PvP contexts this set won't be as impactful as it looks at first glance. It's not going to make a huge splash in large scale stuff.
2. I think it will be absurdly, absolutely broken in 1v1s, and still pretty effective as the numbers creep up to 3 or 4 a side.
3. The removal of CC is hilarious, and makes it the best stam management set for Magicka, imo...in addition to being one of the strongest defensive sets, if not the strongest (at least in 1v1s).

If I were testing alternatives, I'd think about one of the following tweaks:
1. Make it only remove DOTs, not all negative effects.
2. Make it only remove negative effects, not DOTs.
3. Make it only proc on "direct" heals, not HOTs.
4. Bump the cooldown up to 3 or 4 seconds--just enough so that it can't keep up with a fairly "typical" DOT application schedule, but still low enough that it's effective.
5. Make it not remove hard CC. That really should be a given.

templesus · January 2019

I see a lot of people defending the set.

My only guess is they haven’t been on the PTS and tested it. ZOS really needs to put a lock on these forums for people who actually test things.