Auction house is a must!

kemp.garretub17_ESO1 · April 2014

I really want one auction houses are like my secondary source of entertainment in the game for some reason and guild stores feel so limited 500 people per a guild is just so small when you are selling specific things in my opinion the cap should be raised or......... give us an actual auction house

Jadeviper1974 · April 2014

Dumbledalf wrote: »

Please please please give us an auction house. the constant spamming of green and blue text items in zone chat is really annoying. If not an auction house the. At least make a trade channel that can be switched on or off.
Not sure where to post this but there is no general discussion threads.

Thanks.

No to the Auction House. The guild trade system is great because it gives competition, choices, and makes it much more difficult for botters to adversly affect the economy.

What is needed is an enforced trade channel. Make a trade channel then only make items linkable in certain channels, i.e. Trade, Guild, and Private Messages. Problem solved.

zbcole · April 2014

@Greydog‌ I'll bite.

As a conservative with some degree of professional and educational background in economics - careful which side you are laying claims for.

The issue with AH's is not the "greater access to market" that you claim conservatives would want.

The lack of a global AH is more like the market regulating against "sweat shops" and currency fixed global markets than pure regulations. And both conservatives and liberals are against those items.

- AH will promote gold sellers: They're already here in spades. Lack of an AH was no obstacle.

The population is actually dwindling drastically. I haven't had to contend much with ignoring one since like Day 3. Maybe you need to incorporate the ignore function more.

The sign that they are dwindling - is new accounts are not setting up.

- Global AH: afik only a few are asking for that. Most of the rest just want access to the greater market.

None of us can speak for anymore than we have a mouth for. So pretending to is nothing more than an opinion-not facts on the community.

The community at large has yet to utilize the Guild AH's to their potential. They have mostly just been "zerg" spam guilds with the intent of building a large player base for the store. There's no organization or function to be gained from that.

Judging the Guild AH system will be easier done in August vs the games first week of play.

- Guild store idea is a good one: I wouldn't say "good" but it is acceptable. They only need to allow all of them to open up to the greater market.

This is redundant a bit. Nothing more than your opinion of GAH's.

- AH's produce high prices: Don't pay them.

Easier said than done. If food prices get high, then don't eat? AH's follow supply and demand, and prices tend to follow the currency purchasing market.

You have Gold Farmers that produce a lot of items and sell for extorted amounts of in-game currency.

Then you have players that buy currency to keep pace with the gold farmer.

It leaves the honest player out of the economy.

Guild AH's give the players the ability to weed that out. Each GAH serves as its own economy, which has largely stabilized the game's economy.

I don't have an issue selling or buying items of need. Maybe you need to try things a bit differently.

- AH's produce low prices: Ok, which one is it?

Outside of Currency Seller's influence this would be true. But that hasn't been the case in at least 6 or 8 years of MMO's.

- Open a trade channel: Spamming chat is not a trade system.
- AH's kill socialization: No more than a guild full of strangers posting items at an npc does.

I wouldn't be bothered by having a trade channel - only people never exclusively use it so why bother.

And AH's do kill socialization - if you want a bigger market than your GAH - you have to socialize (hint: It's the better market)

I have sold more items through chat and meeting up with players than I have in any game since the original EQ. Any player that has played EQ, EC Tunnel was a hub for selling, and you met players, haggled - otherwise known as interaction.

- But I like spamming chat: Have at it. No-one's stopping you.
- But I don't like Big AH's: No one said you have to use it.

Here is where you fail to understand basic supply and demand with regard to economics. A "Big AH" means that players go there first when looking for an item. Spamming chat with items is less viable because buyers likely already bought from the "Big AH".

With no one actively selling, players are forced to use the "Big AH" because people won't be inclined to sell. So sure, they can still engage in the behavior, but the "Big AH" will kill the Supply and Demand.

- Diablo III's AH failed: D3 was not an mmo and therefor is not comparable. The AH was a cash house ..no wonder it failed.
- I'd rather grind for my gear, not buy it: Again, no-one is stopping you.
- There are plenty of broken AH examples out there: There also plenty of functional examples out there. WoW could fall on either side of that line depending on how you look at it.

Broken AH Examples? Define broken? Is it because it's a buggy platform? Or is it because the Economy is unstable?

If it's bugs you are speaking of, then sure - some games have won and lost in that arena.
However - if its a stable economy that is the judge, then there is no MMO that has managed a stable economy when it has had the outside influence of currency sellers.

Its impossible to.

Can Gold Farmers/Sellers exist in ESO? Sure. But it is far less lucrative and easier for players to avoid them in ESO than any MMO that has the "Big AH."

Jadeviper1974 · April 2014

Greydog wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

The tie-in to the PvP keep is a masterly idea. I hope it works out. It gives us a real reason to fight.

Knowing they will never have the option to sell to a greater market also gives PvEers another reason to leave

Since I am a PVE'r I can tell you that I think you are absolutely wrong, imho. I love the market system as is. Since I can be a member of several guilds I can compare prices and buy from who I want. It also allows for community policing, in that if the economy in one guild gets boned due to botters, that's just one guild not the entier economy.

Kiwi · April 2014

i would settle for a trade chat channel
sick and tired of the never ending scrolling spam of
wts[junk][junk][evenworsejunk][crapnotworthcarryingtovendor]

Sadique · April 2014

Kyotee0071 wrote: »

2)No in game mailing system. Yes with no mailbox it forces player interaction on a face by face level (so to speak), but mailboxes also allow you to interact with friends via mail! Right?!

there is a mail system, hit apostrophe, it even has a CoD system. Can also open it up top when looking at your inventory or click the little mail picture above the chat window. Can mail 6 items at a time and its almost instant.

MercyKilling · April 2014

Okay...but what about people like me that don't want to join a guild for any reason?
In order to use a guild shop, you have to be in a guild that either has one, or associated with a guild that has one.

And, I'm not planning on PvP, as I detest it, and think there's no place for it in an MMO, but that's another thread/conversation. Sticking to the subject, I'm being forced into two things I don't want to do just to be able to purchase goods.

I'm sure there are more like me that want nothing to do with guilds or PvP, but we're stuck like Chuck. Flapping in the breeze.

Is it right that just because of play preferences people are being left out? No.
Pretty sure one of the advertisements for this game was "Play how you want."

Except I and others like me can't play how we want and be able to utilize a guild store.

An Auction house would solve this problem. It would also solve the problem of price gouging that's going on in zone chat.
With an AH, someone can always undercut price gougers.

slander36 · April 2014

Is it right that just because of play preferences people are being left out? No.

I'm sorry, but your mentality on this is just wrong. You are playing a social game anti-socially. You are playing the game how you want to play. Either learn to deal with the consequences of having a say in how you choose to play or learn to play some other way. It's a social game, so pushing interaction is a positive, not a negative, at least to the majority of people posting on this subject.

Greydog · April 2014

@zbcole I'm not going to type up a whole breakdown of your reply. (my brain hurts ,,remember

)

I will just point out that not everyone has a type A personality and can easily interact with others. Some actually find it hard to 100% trust anyone they can't look in the eye. To some, the idea of actually needing to join a group of any kind is overwhelming and they simply can't do it. But still there are many of these types who do want to, and are willing to pay their sub to play this game.

I'm not those types, nor am I type A ..I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm playing the game the same way you are. It seems I may not have been as fortunate as you in my choices though. I'm having some success but I can't help but think I'd have better luck with more access to a greater market.

.and I'll reply to one.

"

- AH's produce high prices: Don't pay them.

Easier said than done. If food prices get high, then don't eat? AH's follow supply and demand, and prices tend to follow the currency purchasing market.

You have Gold Farmers that produce a lot of items and sell for extorted amounts of in-game currency.

Then you have players that buy currency to keep pace with the gold farmer.

It leaves the honest player out of the economy.

Guild AH's give the players the ability to weed that out. Each GAH serves as its own economy, which has largely stabilized the game's economy.

I don't have an issue selling or buying items of need. Maybe you need to try things a bit differently.

Yes, I know how Supply & Demand works. Supply means reasonable people rule the market. Demand means gougers do, I prefer the former.

If something is being offered at unreasonable prices, again, don't pay them. I assure you they will go down. Who knows, someone like me who doesn't ask unreasonable prices may be right around the corner. But then if I'm not in your guild ...how would you ever know?

Jadeviper1974 · April 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

Okay...but what about people like me that don't want to join a guild for any reason?
In order to use a guild shop, you have to be in a guild that either has one, or associated with a guild that has one.

And, I'm not planning on PvP, as I detest it, and think there's no place for it in an MMO, but that's another thread/conversation. Sticking to the subject, I'm being forced into two things I don't want to do just to be able to purchase goods.

I'm sure there are more like me that want nothing to do with guilds or PvP, but we're stuck like Chuck. Flapping in the breeze.

Is it right that just because of play preferences people are being left out? No.
Pretty sure one of the advertisements for this game was "Play how you want."

Except I and others like me can't play how we want and be able to utilize a guild store.

An Auction house would solve this problem. It would also solve the problem of price gouging that's going on in zone chat.
With an AH, someone can always undercut price gougers.

So you basic argument is that you don't want to join a guild? So you want an mmo to be a solo game? I don't actually interact with my guilds very much, I use the stores and leave the rest alone. I make it clear that that is my intention when I am invited. So instead of 1 AH I now have 3, looking for 2 more.

What is needed is an enforced Trade channel. What I mean by enforced is only make items linkable in Trade and Private messages. I don't see a real reason for anything to be linkable in the general chat channel anyway.

All a global AH would do is give control of the economy to botters and let them break it like they have in ever other game with a central AH.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2014

I kinda agree with OP, I hate watching trading happen in the chat... an auction house would be beneficial for all those who wish to trade, as long as people don't spend real money in it.

ZiRM · April 2014

I don't miss AH at all or spammy trade chat. Actually being able to close the chat window is brilliant.

zbcole · April 2014

AH's have never prevented Price Gouging in MMO's where currency sellers are present. That's the thing that is lost on most people in this game that ask for the AH.

An AH invariably works like an antitrust case. Imagine if you could only purchase from Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart would control the market.

An AH isn't entirely like Wal-Mart, it's more like Ebay or Craigslist.

So imagine that you are going to sell on Ebay, and you want to sell item ABC. Only the market is flooded with item ABC at an enormously high price.

Being the smart entrepreneur that you are, you undercut the price-but you aren't interested in fair, you are interested in making the most coin possible. So you undercut by say 10%.

The trouble is - those flooding the market are currency sellers. Inflating the values boosts their sales for currencies, and gives them more product to in-turn sell. It doesn't matter that an honest player listed it at a reasonable price (which is now gone and unavailable to the typical player).

This is the cycle that never ends, its the silent killer in a game. ESO's implementation is one of the most creative ways I have seen an MMO implement trading where the implementation has a real interest in crippling a gold farmer's ability to be a leach within the game.

zbcole · April 2014

@Jadeviper1974‌ I agree with the comment on preventing linkables to a trade/tell/group channel.

That would actually be the only thing that would make players use a dedicated trade channel.

What is needed is an enforced Trade channel. What I mean by enforced is only make items linkable in Trade and Private messages. I don't see a real reason for anything to be linkable in the general chat channel anyway.

Axer · April 2014

There pretty much are auction houses. They are just run by the player guilds instead of being autonomous. I've been selling pretty much all of my blues, at least 5-20 a day. And they all pretty much sell too (I set them nice a cheap, 100gp or so - still a bit of profit over the vendors rate).

MercyKilling · April 2014

slander36 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but your mentality on this is just wrong. You are playing a social game anti-socially.

Wrong. I team all the time. I run group dungeons all the time. Public dungeons too. I -like- helping people out,and will stop to give someone a hand if I perceive them to be in difficulty. Who are YOU to tell me I'm anti-social just because I don't want guild drama, or some petty tinpot dictator who wants everyone to play the game his/her way and runs a guild with an iron fist?

slander36 wrote: »

You are playing the game how you want to play.

Because that's what the GAME DEVELOPERS SAY IN VIRTUALLY EVERY INTERVIEW.

"Play the game your way." Trust me, their word is better than your opinion.

slander36 wrote: »

Either learn to deal with the consequences of having a say in how you choose to play or learn to play some other way. It's a social game, so pushing interaction is a positive, not a negative, at least to the majority of people posting on this subject.

I reiterate, seeing as how you chose to harp on this subject:

I team all the time. I run group dungeons all the time. Public dungeons too. I -like- helping people out,and will stop to give someone a hand if I perceive them to be in difficulty out in the open world. I show up at dolmens when they pop and help the group there out.

What makes me anti-social because I don't want to join a guild? Hmm?

Oh, wait. I just noticed your name. Slander. Gods, I wish there was a forum ignore. At least now I know your ingame handle, so I can ignore you and not have to deal with you ingame.

Back on topic: I support the idea of an auction house. Let -everyone- in on the trading game, not just guilds, and for the love of Pete, don't tie it to anything. No PvP to be able to auction. No guilds to be able to barter. Centrally located in a zone accessible to all levels, in each individual faction.

knightblaster · April 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

Wrong. I team all the time. I run group dungeons all the time. Public dungeons too. I -like- helping people out,and will stop to give someone a hand if I perceive them to be in difficulty. Who are YOU to tell me I'm anti-social just because I don't want guild drama, or some petty tinpot dictator who wants everyone to play the game his/her way and runs a guild with an iron fist?

Trade guilds don't work that way, for the most part -- the idea is to build it to 500 to get a market and go from there. Not much dictatorship going on in the three trade guilds I belong to.

[Deleted User] · April 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Jeremy · April 2014

Malanthor wrote: »

I hate the current system, I would much prefer an auction house.

Same.

Guild Stores just amount to half-ass auction houses anyway. Better to just consolidate them, that way everyone can participate in the economy on an even footing. Trade-channel economies never work, and are always awful. See the older diablo games or path of exile for good examples of that.

So in theory, trade-based economies might lead to more social complexity. But in realty it just becomes an annoyance many people (including myself) decide isn't worth the trouble to deal with.

A server-wide auction house would work wonders for this game's economy.

Mortelus · April 2014

I think there should be market areas in/outside of major towns, you can set up a shop there (with rent), and park your character there to sell items. Other players can shop around the different market stools. Have instanced zones with x amount of market stools per instance.

Failing this, introduce housing, and be able to sell from your house to a faction wide AH. But your character must be in the house to sell.

EQ2 had a similar system and it was fun, gave you a reason to log off in your house, or visit your house. Players could also come visit your house to pick up the goods they just brough from you.

Either of these two would give an already excellent crafting system that little bit extra fun.

MittWaffen · April 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

MittWaffen wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Dumbledalf wrote: »

Please please please give us an auction house. the constant spamming of green and blue text items in zone chat is really annoying. If not an auction house the. At least make a trade channel that can be switched on or off.
Not sure where to post this but there is no general discussion threads.

Thanks.

There are auction houses in guilds, in fact there are guilds that do nothing but AH. Join one of those. We dont need a gold selling machine in the game

Too late, i've been getting spammed by goldsellers already... its pointless.
Make an AH, who cares about how well people can make money, dont like it? Make it another way.

Not everyone can be a nolifer bro, i'd rather use my time effectively to sell products.

Really? You are a complete tool

Dont be butthurt, just deal with the fact. You're hardcore old school MMO player where time isnt a factor in your life. It is for me, and item selling is the least important factor to over complicate. Make an AH and be done with it.

MittWaffen · April 2014

Greydog wrote: »

MittWaffen wrote: »

AH is needed, sorry you conservative oldies like overcomplicating a simple thing.

I'm glad you agree that an AH is needed, but methinks you've blamed the wrong side. Conservatives would be for free access to a greater market. It's the other side that likes complicated regulations mucking things up

I'd like to address a few other points which were brought up:
- AH will promote gold sellers: They're already here in spades. Lack of an AH was no obstacle.
- Global AH: afik only a few are asking for that. Most of the rest just want access to the greater market.
- Guild store idea is a good one: I wouldn't say "good" but it is acceptable. They only need to allow all of them to open up to the greater market.
- AH's produce high prices: Don't pay them.
- AH's produce low prices: Ok, which one is it?
- Open a trade channel: Spamming chat is not a trade system.
- AH's kill socialization: No more than a guild full of strangers posting items at an npc does.
- But I like spamming chat: Have at it. No-one's stopping you.
- But I don't like Big AH's: No one said you have to use it.
- Diablo III's AH failed: D3 was not an mmo and therefor is not comparable. The AH was a cash house ..no wonder it failed.
- I'd rather grind for my gear, not buy it: Again, no-one is stopping you.
- There are plenty of broken AH examples out there: There also plenty of functional examples out there. WoW could fall on either side of that line depending on how you look at it.

I'm sure I could go on but my brain hurts now ..thanks a lot

You're an open minded and oldie that knows what mmo's need. I was refering to the ones in the start of the post who idiotically held onto the minimalist no AH approach.
And in context of Conservative, i meant how they refuse to embrace needed change in the form of a functional and practical AH.

Mortelus · April 2014

Jonnymorrow wrote: »

No we dont need an auction house. It would ruin the market and makes items/gold worthless. Way too many people on the servers. Epic items for 10 gold and all that shite with the undercutting.

People would literally be running around in full purple gear which costs like 1k to buy a whole set, making this game even easier than it already is.

Then simply add a minimum pricing to all items that scales with level and rarity. Anyway, this wouldn't be the case, most mmo's have an AH and I never see cheap rare items, quite the opposite most of the time. the price of mats usually govern the price of items.

Jadeviper1974 · April 2014

MittWaffen wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

MittWaffen wrote: »

AH is needed, sorry you conservative oldies like overcomplicating a simple thing.

I'm glad you agree that an AH is needed, but methinks you've blamed the wrong side. Conservatives would be for free access to a greater market. It's the other side that likes complicated regulations mucking things up

I'd like to address a few other points which were brought up:
- AH will promote gold sellers: They're already here in spades. Lack of an AH was no obstacle.
- Global AH: afik only a few are asking for that. Most of the rest just want access to the greater market.
- Guild store idea is a good one: I wouldn't say "good" but it is acceptable. They only need to allow all of them to open up to the greater market.
- AH's produce high prices: Don't pay them.
- AH's produce low prices: Ok, which one is it?
- Open a trade channel: Spamming chat is not a trade system.
- AH's kill socialization: No more than a guild full of strangers posting items at an npc does.
- But I like spamming chat: Have at it. No-one's stopping you.
- But I don't like Big AH's: No one said you have to use it.
- Diablo III's AH failed: D3 was not an mmo and therefor is not comparable. The AH was a cash house ..no wonder it failed.
- I'd rather grind for my gear, not buy it: Again, no-one is stopping you.
- There are plenty of broken AH examples out there: There also plenty of functional examples out there. WoW could fall on either side of that line depending on how you look at it.

I'm sure I could go on but my brain hurts now ..thanks a lot

You're an open minded and oldie that knows what mmo's need. I was refering to the ones in the start of the post who idiotically held onto the minimalist no AH approach.
And in context of Conservative, i meant how they refuse to embrace needed change in the form of a functional and practical AH.

Well, since its only a needed change in your opinion I have no need to embrace it, I happen to disagree with it completely and see no evidence that it is a "needed change".

zbcole · April 2014

Anyone arguing for an AH simply doesn't get the economics involved and wishes to simply purchase items at will without the slightest work for it.

They don't care about the detriment that a general AH brings to a game.

Some items:
-Loot is not complicated
1. You have gear levels, and then grades
2. You have enchantments (see an item but you want magicka instead of stamina, reapply an enchantment for magicka)
3. You have Traits
4. You have Set Items
5. Only Level, Traits and Set Bonuses cannot be changed.

-You outlevel gear rather fast pre level 30
-You are not limited to which gear you can wear
-It is just as easy to sell without 1 single AH.

Now, for those who think 1 single AH is a "good thing" - there has not been a single MMO that did not have their economy destroyed by gold sellers in this type of environment.

Virtual currency is a billion dollar industry. Keeping an AH out of a game like this in order to maintain a stable economy so the average and honest players have a chance at decent items without having to result to currency dealers is paramount.

Players wanting one are simply a combination of selfish and lazy.

And to @MercyKilling‌ - seriously, you can group and do all those other items, but joining a guild is too much when all you have to do is accept the invite (chat and everything else can be turned off). Give me a break, you're trying to make an argument that is now invalid. I could see it if you were someone that wanted to play an MMO as a SP game....stupid as that may be....but comeon...

Phinix1 · April 2014

I have a slightly different take on the matter than most here it seems, but it is one born of experience. For me, the absence of a global auction house, and the incorporation of the feature into the guild system, is an overall bad design decision. I realize why it was done (due to megaserver limitations and not to flood the market), however I know there is a better way to implement this. I call on the developers to consider these alternatives.

So, what is the problem with having the only auction house options be guild-based?

First of all, it inundates all zone chat with constant obnoxious guild spam, which has led most people I know and play with to simply turn off the channel, taking away from the sense of community and cooperation, to where people just trying to organize for group activities are penalized, and group game play as a whole suffers, which is counter to the whole spirit of the genre.

Second, guilds in my view should be relatively tight-knit clans of comrades willing to help and talk and trade, but because of the need to fill the ranks to capacity to keep the auction houses well stocked, you end up with the same problem: 500/500 capped guilds full of anonymous spammers and no sense of community, to where again, most of the dozens I play with have simply turned off chat channels altogether.

Third, most players will join their primary trade guilds at lower levels, and keep them as they level and gear up. This results in diminishing returns on lower tier gear, and ends up disrupting the market economy just as much as what the removal of a global megaserver auction house was attempting to avoid, in a different way. Now people will find it difficult to acquire lower tier crafting materials and gear at reasonable prices, partly because most members are no longer farming them, or have forgotten what gear sold for back then.

The solution?

First of all, eliminate the 50 member requirement altogether to start a guild-based auction house, and keep those as they are a handy feature to have. Also, lower the posting and house cut percentages a bit, or just eliminate the listing fee.

But for a more permanent solution, how to keep markets manageable and prevent farmer bots from exploiting them:

REGIONAL TRADE ATTUNEMENT.

Create numerous auction houses scattered throughout the world each with their own separate listings. This would help to keep the itemization level appropriate to an extent.

Also, create a system of daily or weekly quest requirements, possibly crafting or gathering items for that particular house, in order to be able to post there. The requirements would not be so steep as to be a deterrent to casuals, and may even entail their own rewards in themselves, but enough to keep farmer bots to a minimum, as they would have to constantly invest that time to participate in these random re-attunement quests.

You could also make it so that you are only able to list items in a certain number of these regional auction houses at once, though really, if you wanted to do the work to stay attuned then you should be able to post in as many as you wish.

If anyone wants to help me get a good trade guild going in the meantime, whisper Dar'jazad on North American servers for an invite to Warm Sands, and help us build our caravan!

Malkavianqueen · April 2014

I just hope they implement a way to set up shop to the greater public PVE side. I bet they will, though. Has anyone actually used the stores in the PVP zone yet? Most trading guilds right now are all just about the guild store.

augustgrace · April 2014

Perhaps not an auction house, but a convenient way to browse guild stores. Maybe trade guilds could pay a fee to allow others to view their goods in the bigger towns. Then charge a premium for outsiders.

The system as is, sounded good on paper, but just isn't going to last long term.

slander36 · April 2014

@MercyKilling‌ I like how you took my comments out of context in terms of playing how you want to play. I wasn't saying "playing the way you want to play is wrong." Nothing of the sort. I meant that it is encouraged to play the game how you want to play it. However, that means that you have to deal with the choices you made based on the limitations and rules set by developers unless there is enough of a reason for those rules and limitations to be changed. Asking for an auction house is a way to do that. Demanding one be implemented because you know best is not.

I don't want an auction house, you do. I don't want to play "eBay Online," while you seem to. I don't enjoy seeing the developers have to generate huge amounts of inflation in the game each patch because gold farmers and botters have found ways to corner and flood the market to their advantage. I've experienced this time and time again and would like to at least try something new before demanding something I'm familiar with.

PF1901 · April 2014

Vilixiti wrote: »

... Hopefully Zeni doesn't cave to people crying and wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter with zero effort put in.

This! No to instant gratification!