CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

As I said I love the content I just don't get why this game has no upward progression and would like to see that change.

ESO is not like WOW, WOW just has a couple of gear options and they are leveled.
While in ESO its tons of gear, most is trash or niche but others are good.

The later trial sets are very good, they are also leveled as you need to do harder and harder content to get different parts and an perfect and imperfect version. This is an progression system in it self.
CP is the main progression system.

You can not have regular gear level upgrades in in ESO as some of the items is very hard to get. Yes its the loot tables. Spell power cure resto staff drops 1/10 of the chance of bows as is an bis level healer set.

Linaleah wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jawshoeuh wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

Why don't you just say something constructive instead of a passive aggressive comment? If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need to find a new forum.

I'm actually curious on what would happen if Champion points weren't a thing anymore.. What would they do? I'm not as well verse with MMO's besides WoW way back in the day.. So I would have no idea where to even start!

It's not a passive aggressive comment. It's the truth. If you aren't having fun playing something, stop playing it. It's unhealthy to force yourself to do something you don't enjoy. And if you need psychological "carrot on stick" tricks to keep you playing, again, that's not healthy.

You're pretty foolish to believe that people don't like upward progression. Or else you wouldn't have gotten that 50 in Halo. Let's be real here.

for me at least the ONLY reason the ONLY reason i level up in games with upward "progression" is becasue content is level gated. I just want to acess ALL content that the game has to offer and the game forces me to reset my character periodically to do so. meanwhile prior content is rendered obsolete.

no, I'd rather "improve" my character by unlocking new skill lines, new various achievements, etc. resetting my progress every time new expansion comes out, for me at least does NOT feel good. its just tiresome and annoying.

Agreed. Levelling up can be useful early on so new players aren't overwhelmed with skills and equipment choices, but I've never seen the appeal of playing the game for the sake of increased numbers on your character sheet, especially in a game like this where you already have access to all the content and can play whatever you choose.

My main character is coming up on CP160 and I'm really looking forward to not needing to worry about upgrading gear any more. I can pick a couple of sets, craft the gear and then just focus on playing the game instead of stopping every so often to check if any of the drops are needed or craft new pieces to replace ones which are too low level. I can't say the idea of having to start over every few months is appealing.

If there was another form of progression that didn't invalidate what you've already done that would be ok, but I'm not sure what they could do that people would accept (partially because I don't understand that way of thinking). Apparently new skill lines aren't enough because we get those periodically but that's not counted as progression.

Sibenice wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jawshoeuh wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

Why don't you just say something constructive instead of a passive aggressive comment? If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need to find a new forum.

I'm actually curious on what would happen if Champion points weren't a thing anymore.. What would they do? I'm not as well verse with MMO's besides WoW way back in the day.. So I would have no idea where to even start!

It's not a passive aggressive comment. It's the truth. If you aren't having fun playing something, stop playing it. It's unhealthy to force yourself to do something you don't enjoy. And if you need psychological "carrot on stick" tricks to keep you playing, again, that's not healthy.

Someone can like a game but still feel that parts of it need to change to make it better. We're not stuck on just two settings of either like or not like for everything. :P

I don't know if I'd want an increase in level cap but I do think that the CP system could be improved in such a way to make for more interesting upward progression.

improvements to CP system - sure. just.... this game already has plenty of grinds, adding all fresh and all new gear grind where you pretty much have to start from scratch? (which is what raising gear cp to 170 for instance would do) is just not my idea of fun.

heck even in WoW, nowadays main reason I don't mind leveling as much is because of heirloom gear. not the extra xp part - the "I don't have to worry about constantly upgrading my gear" part.

idk wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

As I said I love the content I just don't get why this game has no upward progression and would like to see that change.

Do you need upward progression to enjoy new content?

No reason you can't have both Are you opposed to upward progression and if so why?

Upward progression for the sake of having it is a poor design.

This right here. ZoS got rid of it and the popularity skyrocketed.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

As I said I love the content I just don't get why this game has no upward progression and would like to see that change.

Do you need upward progression to enjoy new content?

No reason you can't have both Are you opposed to upward progression and if so why?

It ruins old content by making it too easy. It's not real progression either as new content is designed to be completed at the current max level (completing vMoL at CP 501 was the same difficulty as completing vCR at CP 750).

So, instead of having 34 challenging dungeons and 7 challenging raids in this game, we currently have 6 challenging dungeons and 3 challenging raids. Vertical progression reduces the amount of playable content in a game.

I would argue that is exactly the point of vertical progression. The best players can clear content when it is released, then other groups gradually clear after months of practice and power creep. A couple years later any player dedicated enough to keep trying that long can breeze through things like Craglorn trials to get halfway decent gear like VO.

It would be a terrible practice to maintain the difficulty level of something like vMoL at its initial release. 99% of the player base would never clear it. Even after being out for years and now becoming one of the easiest trials, I doubt even 90% of players have a clear.

There will always be the newest, hardest content for those that want it. Let the rest of the playerbase have the outdated ones.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

As I said I love the content I just don't get why this game has no upward progression and would like to see that change.

Do you need upward progression to enjoy new content?

No reason you can't have both Are you opposed to upward progression and if so why?

It ruins old content by making it too easy. It's not real progression either as new content is designed to be completed at the current max level (completing vMoL at CP 501 was the same difficulty as completing vCR at CP 750).

So, instead of having 34 challenging dungeons and 7 challenging raids in this game, we currently have 6 challenging dungeons and 3 challenging raids. Vertical progression reduces the amount of playable content in a game.

I would argue that is exactly the point of vertical progression. The best players can clear content when it is released, then other groups gradually clear after months of practice and power creep. A couple years later any player dedicated enough to keep trying that long can breeze through things like Craglorn trials to get halfway decent gear like VO.

It would be a terrible practice to maintain the difficulty level of something like vMoL at its initial release. 99% of the player base would never clear it. Even after being out for years and now becoming one of the easiest trials, I doubt even 90% of players have a clear.

There will always be the newest, hardest content for those that want it. Let the rest of the playerbase have the outdated ones.

This cuts to the core of one of the most important reasons why vertical progression is a good thing - content clear. If things were completely stagnant and nobody ever got stronger, assuming content were never nerfed, there would be large groups of not-so-skilled players who could simply never clear that content. They can't get stronger, and it ain't getting nerfed.

If you think they're gonna "git gud" enough to clear it eventually, you're delusional. Most will get discouraged and quit long before that, and your game will suffer for it. Power creep is the ultimate catch-up mechanic.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

As I said I love the content I just don't get why this game has no upward progression and would like to see that change.

Do you need upward progression to enjoy new content?

No reason you can't have both Are you opposed to upward progression and if so why?

It ruins old content by making it too easy. It's not real progression either as new content is designed to be completed at the current max level (completing vMoL at CP 501 was the same difficulty as completing vCR at CP 750).

So, instead of having 34 challenging dungeons and 7 challenging raids in this game, we currently have 6 challenging dungeons and 3 challenging raids. Vertical progression reduces the amount of playable content in a game.

I would argue that is exactly the point of vertical progression. The best players can clear content when it is released, then other groups gradually clear after months of practice and power creep. A couple years later any player dedicated enough to keep trying that long can breeze through things like Craglorn trials to get halfway decent gear like VO.

It would be a terrible practice to maintain the difficulty level of something like vMoL at its initial release. 99% of the player base would never clear it. Even after being out for years and now becoming one of the easiest trials, I doubt even 90% of players have a clear.

There will always be the newest, hardest content for those that want it. Let the rest of the playerbase have the outdated ones.

This cuts to the core of one of the most important reasons why vertical progression is a good thing - content clear. If things were completely stagnant and nobody ever got stronger, assuming content were never nerfed, there would be large groups of not-so-skilled players who could simply never clear that content. They can't get stronger, and it ain't getting nerfed.

If you think they're gonna "git gud" enough to clear it eventually, you're delusional. Most will get discouraged and quit long before that, and your game will suffer for it. Power creep is the ultimate catch-up mechanic.

They could clear that content on normal.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

As I said I love the content I just don't get why this game has no upward progression and would like to see that change.

Do you need upward progression to enjoy new content?

No reason you can't have both Are you opposed to upward progression and if so why?

It ruins old content by making it too easy. It's not real progression either as new content is designed to be completed at the current max level (completing vMoL at CP 501 was the same difficulty as completing vCR at CP 750).

So, instead of having 34 challenging dungeons and 7 challenging raids in this game, we currently have 6 challenging dungeons and 3 challenging raids. Vertical progression reduces the amount of playable content in a game.

I would argue that is exactly the point of vertical progression. The best players can clear content when it is released, then other groups gradually clear after months of practice and power creep. A couple years later any player dedicated enough to keep trying that long can breeze through things like Craglorn trials to get halfway decent gear like VO.

It would be a terrible practice to maintain the difficulty level of something like vMoL at its initial release. 99% of the player base would never clear it. Even after being out for years and now becoming one of the easiest trials, I doubt even 90% of players have a clear.

There will always be the newest, hardest content for those that want it. Let the rest of the playerbase have the outdated ones.

This cuts to the core of one of the most important reasons why vertical progression is a good thing - content clear. If things were completely stagnant and nobody ever got stronger, assuming content were never nerfed, there would be large groups of not-so-skilled players who could simply never clear that content. They can't get stronger, and it ain't getting nerfed.

If you think they're gonna "git gud" enough to clear it eventually, you're delusional. Most will get discouraged and quit long before that, and your game will suffer for it. Power creep is the ultimate catch-up mechanic.

They could clear that content on normal.

That's your answer for everything... Clear the content on Normal.

I'm sorry, but NO!!! That is not the solutiuon.

When a player reaches a certain level of competence, Normal content becomes waaaaaaaaaaaay to easy. These players shouldn't be shoehorned into only doing Normal content because the game allows for the use of a broken mechanic (like animation cancelling and balancing abilities, resources, etc around it!!!), which 80% of the player base is either technically unable to master, or the other half unwilling to.

The game itsself has to grow! and has to allow their players to continue to grow and progress as well. I'm sorry, unless ZOS is willing to put in a middle tier of difficulty to trials, then they MUST continue to allow small amounts of vertical progression so that those middle tier of players and the current lower tier, can eventually become powerful enough to do the old content.

Doing normal dungeons, trials, etc is just as mind numbingly boring as doing all the quests for the 10th time!!

This game would not survive if it started having a clear vertical progression, like adding 10 levels for each chapter. There are many MMOs out there with this type of progression, and ESO is unique in the way it handles progression. The moment ESO joins the ladder of vertical progression (with levels, etc), a lot of the playerbase would leave (me included), and it would have to stand up and fight with other MMOs for the playerbase. It would be downright suicidal of ESO to change it, and just become one of many.

People aren't staying away from trials because it's too difficult, they're staying away from trials because they honestly don't seem to care. If more people wanted to do trials, there would be a clear increase in %. Most people don't want to do 12 man content, most people don't want to spend hours wiping while raiding. In WoW people do it because of the gear, this isn't the case in ESO, so people don't do them. The majority of playerbase in ESO seems to enjoy playing alone, at their own phase, with a couple of dungeons thrown in once in a while.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I look forward to playing every new expansion/DLC. If that doesn't motivate you, it sounds like you need a new game.

The problem is, it gets very repetitive and... useless in the end.

I like the new storylines and areas as well but the entire game becomes very stale when you reach level 50 and on top of that the gear cap. No with no additional CP points there is basically no reward / progression system anymore which is a huge blow to the entire longevity of the game.

The #1 reason I even have 15 maxed out characters is that they haven't added meaningful vertical character progression in years. Once your important skill lines are maxed out, you're pretty much done with the game, and they only added 1 skill line last year. This year there won't be any. What exactly are you supposed to do with your existing characters?

The only thing that kept progression going was the champion system, but it failed horribly for that in many regards. For one, it doesn't feel like actually progressing when you're always at cap, which most constant players are. It also doesn't add anything new or unique, but just extends your power in the same direction at a snail's pace. It's good they're finally putting it on hold to rethink what it is actually supposed to accomplish.

Eventually they'll had to add a new layer for our characters to progress in, like secondary classes or a completely revised champion system, or they'll have to continuously add more character slots so we can create new characters to progress through the same systems we did 4 years ago.

Aluneth wrote: »

This game would not survive if it started having a clear vertical progression, like adding 10 levels for each chapter. There are many MMOs out there with this type of progression, and ESO is unique in the way it handles progression. The moment ESO joins the ladder of vertical progression (with levels, etc), a lot of the playerbase would leave (me included), and it would have to stand up and fight with other MMOs for the playerbase. It would be downright suicidal of ESO to change it, and just become one of many.

People aren't staying away from trials because it's too difficult, they're staying away from trials because they honestly don't seem to care. If more people wanted to do trials, there would be a clear increase in %. Most people don't want to do 12 man content, most people don't want to spend hours wiping while raiding. In WoW people do it because of the gear, this isn't the case in ESO, so people don't do them. The majority of playerbase in ESO seems to enjoy playing alone, at their own phase, with a couple of dungeons thrown in once in a while.

I think you are right in saying most players would prefer solo content over group content and the broken lackluster group finder does not help but that's another issue for another topic. But I think many solo players still want some type of upward goal. I have 14 maxed out fully geared toons that I rotate through reworking as new sets come out but that gets very boring seeing that with the exception of some minor tweaks most can be redone in the time it takes to grab the new gear. I end up playing my main DPS, Tank, and healer most of the time as needed to help friends. With 24 Houses I have spent most my free time between new content crafting and making gold but even that gets old. I want to actually make my toon grow again not just regear or make another class build to occupy my time.

Unfortunately for most endgame long term players, there is very little to do in this wonderful game.

Like "real" mmos? Really? Do you mean "like WoW" where they can't make their mind up how they want the game to work so they completely redesign the game every expansion instead of expanding current content? If so, no thanks... That's the reason I don't play that game.

The game is an RPG, it essentially is a story, that's the genre. If you can't enjoy content, you're probably playing the wrong game. If you want progression, work on the achievements, or do you have them all? That's progression too. Sounds to me like you just want to become OP for the content...