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Breton opinions on their new racials?

  • Tasear
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Yeah >..> I told them that for Breton like Spell Resistance since it's not bad. It's still there, but not as much and some new things to work with now.

    It is nice to see a(n unnoffical) commonity ambassador commenting my thread :) Unfortunately I didn't quite understood what you were trying to say with this.

    It was a give and take change. They still have some tankiness but they also got incredible sustain now.


    The goal was give a unique feel but not outclass others.
    Edited by Tasear on January 17, 2019 4:35PM
  • Sinolai
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    Minno wrote: »
    Sinolai wrote: »
    Eareindur wrote: »
    Though I was expecting some kind of buff to our damage, I think the changes, overall, are a great improvement.

    BUT we have to consider this changes in relation to the rest of races, specially the buff to the Spell Resistance of Nords. That Nords getting 70% more SR than Bretons is a total nonsense, an oddity from the perspective of lore and racial profiles of every Elder Scrolls games.

    That said... May be we should be discussing if the improvement in SR to Nords is way too much.

    I think its because nords are overall oriented towards bulkyness and tanking, bretons have also dps passives tied to them, having both would be kinda crazy

    Bretons do not have dps passive. They have max magicka that does give them some damage becouse of calculations work but they are made as dps. That is like saying argonians have dps passive. In previous games Breton identity has been a magical wall that tanks spells but not physical attacks and uses magic themselves.

    2k max mag = 190.47 spell damage. It's no apprentice stone, but you also use it as a resource pool for casting. 7% cost and 100 mag regen just means MAYBE you drop a sustain set or enchants for dmg oriented ones.

    and Nords have 1500 max stamina which coverts into weapon damage. That doesnt make them a DPS race.
  • Minno
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Sinolai wrote: »
    Eareindur wrote: »
    Though I was expecting some kind of buff to our damage, I think the changes, overall, are a great improvement.

    BUT we have to consider this changes in relation to the rest of races, specially the buff to the Spell Resistance of Nords. That Nords getting 70% more SR than Bretons is a total nonsense, an oddity from the perspective of lore and racial profiles of every Elder Scrolls games.

    That said... May be we should be discussing if the improvement in SR to Nords is way too much.

    I think its because nords are overall oriented towards bulkyness and tanking, bretons have also dps passives tied to them, having both would be kinda crazy

    Bretons do not have dps passive. They have max magicka that does give them some damage becouse of calculations work but they are made as dps. That is like saying argonians have dps passive. In previous games Breton identity has been a magical wall that tanks spells but not physical attacks and uses magic themselves.

    2k max mag = 190.47 spell damage. It's no apprentice stone, but you also use it as a resource pool for casting. 7% cost and 100 mag regen just means MAYBE you drop a sustain set or enchants for dmg oriented ones.

    and Nords have 1500 max stamina which coverts into weapon damage. That doesnt make them a DPS race.

    if you practice stat swap, all races are DPS/Tank/healers. Just how you go about it.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • WrathOfInnos
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    The extra sustain sounds great. Breton needed that buff to be at all competitive with the new Altmer (which got a sustain and damage buff). Especially since Altmer damage bonus now applies to Magic damage in addition to Elemental (magic damage builds on Templar and Nightblade were Breton’s best niche for DPS). It does seem like tanky Breton builds are taking a hit, but it looks like Nord is in a good position to take over that role with their 3960 Physical and Spell Resistance.

    It seems like the new role of Breton is to be a sustain class, like the Magicka equivalent to Redguard. That 7% Magicka cost reduction is nearly as good as the Seducer 5pc set bonus (similar to how the Altmer 258 Spell damage is nearly as good as the Julianos 5pc bonus). I’m definitely onboard with this, and the loss in defense won’t be particularly crippling for PvE DPS and healer builds. For PvE you’ll likely be dying most frequently to stamina builds, which aren’t prevented by Spell Resistance anyway.
  • rafaelcsmaia
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Sinolai wrote: »
    Eareindur wrote: »
    Though I was expecting some kind of buff to our damage, I think the changes, overall, are a great improvement.

    BUT we have to consider this changes in relation to the rest of races, specially the buff to the Spell Resistance of Nords. That Nords getting 70% more SR than Bretons is a total nonsense, an oddity from the perspective of lore and racial profiles of every Elder Scrolls games.

    That said... May be we should be discussing if the improvement in SR to Nords is way too much.

    I think its because nords are overall oriented towards bulkyness and tanking, bretons have also dps passives tied to them, having both would be kinda crazy

    Bretons do not have dps passive. They have max magicka that does give them some damage becouse of calculations work but they are made as dps. That is like saying argonians have dps passive. In previous games Breton identity has been a magical wall that tanks spells but not physical attacks and uses magic themselves.

    2k max mag = 190.47 spell damage. It's no apprentice stone, but you also use it as a resource pool for casting. 7% cost and 100 mag regen just means MAYBE you drop a sustain set or enchants for dmg oriented ones.

    and Nords have 1500 max stamina which coverts into weapon damage. That doesnt make them a DPS race.

    I didnt know about nord, thought it was HP bonus, so yeah maybe the differences shouldnt be 70% after all
  • kathandira
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    The extra sustain sounds great. Breton needed that buff to be at all competitive with the new Altmer (which got a sustain and damage buff). Especially since Altmer damage bonus now applies to Magic damage in addition to Elemental (magic damage builds on Templar and Nightblade were Breton’s best niche for DPS). It does seem like tanky Breton builds are taking a hit, but it looks like Nord is in a good position to take over that role with their 3960 Physical and Spell Resistance.

    It seems like the new role of Breton is to be a sustain class, like the Magicka equivalent to Redguard. That 7% Magicka cost reduction is nearly as good as the Seducer 5pc set bonus (similar to how the Altmer 258 Spell damage is nearly as good as the Julianos 5pc bonus). I’m definitely onboard with this, and the loss in defense won’t be particularly crippling for PvE DPS and healer builds. For PvE you’ll likely be dying most frequently to stamina builds, which aren’t prevented by Spell Resistance anyway.

    Hehe, since I roll as a defensive healer, the spell resistance really doesn't affect me at all. With Rune Focus and Combat Prayer, I sit comfortably at 32k Spell Resistance already, so the hit will barely be noticed.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • JadonSky
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    Yeah I love the changes for Breton its been my main race for all my characters. With the exception of imperial for my tank which i like the changes as well. I feel like I can make-up the spell resistance by moving a few champion points as well or removing my sustain set (lich) with something else.
  • Lord_Eomer
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    Kadoin wrote: »
    Already a post asking to be buffed over everyone's nerf? Wow.

    Not buffed. Reverted back to original. Remove 100 sustain and add 1650 spell resistance.
    Dunmer is the one that cries to be buffed and I agree with that :P But this thread is not about dunmer.

    100 magicka recovery sustain is descent, no need for small resistance back.

    All races survived without this resistance buff, look at altmers everywhere
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on January 17, 2019 5:26PM
  • Stx
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    I like the new racials. The old spell resist was nice but it always ended up imbalancing my spell/physical resists which was annoying. More sustain is always welcome for me because I hate working in regen when I make a build.
  • lassitershawn
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    Absolutely love the Breton passive changes. Probs could have done without the spell resist nerf but 4% cost reduc and 100 regen is crazy strong
    William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
    Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
    Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
    Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade

    IR x8, GH x5, TTT x2
  • Eareindur
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    Considering all this I would say that Bretons in ESO have always been a race implicitly oriented to healing and that wouldn't fundamentally change with the new passives. Yes, we can use the better sustain to improve our damage output with certain tweaks... Only that Altmer is still BiS MagDPS, now more than ever, and in the process we are unnecessary losing one of the defining characteristics of the race.

    PS: Unnecessary because no one can seriously think Bretons are even near to become an overpowered race and when the changes were announced we were promised versatility. Keep waiting.
  • Lord_Eomer
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    Eareindur wrote: »
    Considering all this I would say that Bretons in ESO have always been a race implicitly oriented to healing and that wouldn't fundamentally change with the new passives. Yes, we can use the better sustain to improve our damage output with certain tweaks... Only that Altmer is still BiS MagDPS, now more than ever, and in the process we are unnecessary losing one of the defining characteristics of the race.

    PS: Unnecessary because no one can seriously think Bretons are even near to become an overpowered race and when the changes were announced we were promised versatility. Keep waiting.

    Bretons are fair with new changes and no way near OP, its trade-off between damage and sustain.

    ZOS clearly did job well done!
  • Sinolai
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    Yeah >..> I told them that for Breton like Spell Resistance since it's not bad. It's still there, but not as much and some new things to work with now.

    It is nice to see a(n unnoffical) commonity ambassador commenting my thread :) Unfortunately I didn't quite understood what you were trying to say with this.

    It was a give and take change. They still have some tankiness but they also got incredible sustain now.


    The goal was give a unique feel but not outclass others.

    I think ZOS was given some criticism about these "You get a buff but you also get a nerf" changes in same patch some time ago when they were having hard time fine tuning magicka templars…
  • katorga
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    Does the 7% cost reduction apply to blocking with an ice staff?
  • Sinolai
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    katorga wrote: »
    Does the 7% cost reduction apply to blocking with an ice staff?

    I have actually never tested that… I think it might even count.
  • Minalan
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    We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.
  • Lughlongarm
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    Just thought about it, will it not be more logical that the 100 magicka regen passive will be switched with the Altmer resource return passive? Seems to me more in line with the races themes.
  • paulychan
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    I see my Breton templar healer that focused on reduced cost glyphs as having even better sustain.
  • Lord_Eomer
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    Minalan wrote: »
    We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.

    So do Altmers, Dark Elf and Orc got a Juliano and Hundings respectively.

    Bosmers got a Bone Pirate :smile:
  • katorga
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    Does the 7% cost reduction apply to blocking with an ice staff?

    I have actually never tested that… I think it might even count.

    I've seen that the Redguard 8% weapon skill reduction works for weapon ults too, so my guess is that it applies to blocking.
    Minalan wrote: »
    We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.

    Interesting way to look at the changes and measure their effectiveness and standing. Each race got cut down versions of a 5 piece set bonus.

    Altmer got Boodthorn and Julianos
    Breton got seducer
    Nord got Werewolf hide, fortified brass
    etc.
  • Temeraire507
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    katorga wrote: »

    I've seen that the Redguard 8% weapon skill reduction works for weapon ults too, so my guess is that it applies to blocking.

    When I tested the effect of reduction passives (e.g. from armor and I believe actually from breton as well, but I can't remember) it seemed to work. But this requires testing on monday.
    katorga wrote: »
    Interesting way to look at the changes and measure their effectiveness and standing. Each race got cut down versions of a 5 piece set bonus.

    Altmer got Boodthorn and Julianos
    Breton got seducer
    Nord got Werewolf hide, fortified brass
    etc.

    You might want to look at this quote from the announcement article:
    Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.

    When we’re balancing numerical bonuses, this is our general procedure with the values you see. The system works by looking at the total power a bonus provides and comparing it to a bonus from a 2-4 item set. For example, if we have 2000 Stamina, we would compare that to a 2 piece value of Stamina, which is 1096. The final result would be 2000/1096 = 1.82 set bonus efficiency. We did this for each bonus a race provides so they would all be roughly equal in the power they provide.

    We decided to find a healthy standard for total racial power provided and used that budget (roughly 6.5 set bonuses) for the power that each passive would grant. We used the previous version of Redguard and Altmer as our target goal. Note that some of our hybrid races will be a slightly higher value, since their power is divided. Most of the races received buffs to reach this figure.

    Your guess is very likely to be exactly what was done
    Edited by Temeraire507 on January 19, 2019 11:20PM
  • MashmalloMan
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    katorga wrote: »
    Sinolai wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    Does the 7% cost reduction apply to blocking with an ice staff?

    I have actually never tested that… I think it might even count.

    I've seen that the Redguard 8% weapon skill reduction works for weapon ults too, so my guess is that it applies to blocking.


    We won't know how the Redguard passive behaves until we get it on pts, but I really don't think they would intend RG to have cheaper weapon ultimates. That doesn't sound very balanced at all.

    It should be additive with other bonuses like 5% sorc/templar, 15% from the weapon lines and 14% 7 medium armor/light armor because thats how Breton's currently works.

    Their intention must have RG work for mag classes too, so that means ALL weapon skills for sta/mag.

    Only... 3 more days :)
    katorga wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.

    Interesting way to look at the changes and measure their effectiveness and standing. Each race got cut down versions of a 5 piece set bonus.

    Altmer got Boodthorn and Julianos
    Breton got seducer
    Nord got Werewolf hide, fortified brass
    etc.

    I'm pretty sure that was their design philosiphy with the balance. +258 weapon dmg is equal to 129 * 2 of the 2-4 pc bonuses you can find. I couldn't be bother to read the entire post and skimmed straight to the changes tbh. I really like that idea.

    Edit: The comment above found it, yep.


    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 19, 2019 11:32PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • Banana
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    Excellent B)
  • Emma_Overload
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Yeah >..> I told them that for Breton like Spell Resistance since it's not bad. It's still there, but not as much and some new things to work with now.

    Like the TheYKcid said above, you're better off with the 100 magic regen because you can always add a Protective trait to a jewel to make up the difference and get a little physical resistance for free.

    Edited by Emma_Overload on January 20, 2019 12:52AM
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Minalan
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    Minalan wrote: »
    We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.

    So do Altmers, Dark Elf and Orc got a Juliano and Hundings respectively.

    Bosmers got a Bone Pirate :smile:

    Exactly, Altmer got a shaved down bloodthorn and damage like kags set. Breton has seducer cost reduction, regen, and some spell resistance.

    Altmer will perform better when constantly on the offense.

    Breton will perform better when you can't stay on the offense, like when you're being chased by six people or more.

    My Cyrodiil experience is nearly always the latter. So Breton it is.
  • Joosef_Kivikilpi
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    Sinolai wrote: »
    What does other Breton players think about this?

    Breton
    Increases Experience gain in Light Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Alliance Point gain → No changes
    Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
    Spell Resistance: 3960 Spell Resistance → Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
    Magicka Mastery: 3% Magicka Cost Reduction → Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%.

    My opinion is what had been stated in the forums many times: Bretons are pretty good but Magicka Mastery needs a buff. They finally got it, but they also got a nerf to their spell resistance. What is new is they also got +100 magicka recovery, but sustain really hasn't been that big issue with Bretons and with +4% increase to cost reduction it wouldn't be issue in the new patch either. So what is the point of chaning the 2nd passive?
    I think the original 3960 spell resistance (the same that nords get) would be more useful than 2310 spell resistance and 100 magicka recovery (also previously Bretons have been known as "magic walls" able to absorb hostile spells to gain magicka(Make them recover magicka by taking spell damage?)). The spell resistance also helps to mitigate spell damage both in PvP and PvE situation, especially when wearing light armor. The old passive can save your life from that final killing blow, while the new recovery is just extra sustain on the top of your already good sustain.

    Overall I am happy and wont complain too much even if this went live as it is but I'd hope ZOS reverted the changes on 2nd passive.

    EDIT:
    One interesting idea that came to my mind would be changing the 2nd passive from:
    Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.

    to

    Gain 3960 Spell Resisatnce. When you take Spell damage you restore 320 magicka. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

    That way Breton can keep their old tankines and gain some extra sustain that ZOS intended to give them, as well as make them more akin with what they used to be in previous games, giving them their racial identity.

    More Breton sustain actually means we can focus now more on damage. I LOVE the buffs they gave. They were well-needed to increase them. 3900 to 2300... about 2.5% damage difference from Magick? Yeah, I'd rather take the 100 base magick recovery because that means more heals or protection in the form of shields etc.

    It'd be awesome to have a tiny spell absorption in that passive as well, but heck, I'm not complaining. These buffs were awesome!
  • Minno
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.

    So do Altmers, Dark Elf and Orc got a Juliano and Hundings respectively.

    Bosmers got a Bone Pirate :smile:

    Exactly, Altmer got a shaved down bloodthorn and damage like kags set. Breton has seducer cost reduction, regen, and some spell resistance.

    Altmer will perform better when constantly on the offense.

    Breton will perform better when you can't stay on the offense, like when you're being chased by six people or more.

    My Cyrodiil experience is nearly always the latter. So Breton it is.

    Wait till we test Breton with Magnus set. 8% chance to negate a spell cost but with mag, SD, Regen on the 2,3,4 bonuses? Sweet lol
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • katorga
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    katorga wrote: »

    I've seen that the Redguard 8% weapon skill reduction works for weapon ults too, so my guess is that it applies to blocking.

    When I tested the effect of reduction passives (e.g. from armor and I believe actually from breton as well, but I can't remember) it seemed to work. But this requires testing on monday.
    katorga wrote: »
    Interesting way to look at the changes and measure their effectiveness and standing. Each race got cut down versions of a 5 piece set bonus.

    Altmer got Boodthorn and Julianos
    Breton got seducer
    Nord got Werewolf hide, fortified brass
    etc.

    You might want to look at this quote from the announcement article:
    Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.

    When we’re balancing numerical bonuses, this is our general procedure with the values you see. The system works by looking at the total power a bonus provides and comparing it to a bonus from a 2-4 item set. For example, if we have 2000 Stamina, we would compare that to a 2 piece value of Stamina, which is 1096. The final result would be 2000/1096 = 1.82 set bonus efficiency. We did this for each bonus a race provides so they would all be roughly equal in the power they provide.

    We decided to find a healthy standard for total racial power provided and used that budget (roughly 6.5 set bonuses) for the power that each passive would grant. We used the previous version of Redguard and Altmer as our target goal. Note that some of our hybrid races will be a slightly higher value, since their power is divided. Most of the races received buffs to reach this figure.

    Your guess is very likely to be exactly what was done

    Yep, I read the part about using the set bonus efficiency system, but I never actually thought you would get passives remotely close to a 5 piece set bonus. All in all, I think it makes racial choice even MORE important now, and the cynic in me points to the crown store and winks. Still I think the changes are reasonably balanced, and useful for shaking things up.

    Some of the races seem a little lopsided and totally aimed at specific classes, but whatever.
  • TheDoomsdayMonster
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    I absolutely love the buff that my Breton will be receiving...

    The 4% additional Cost Reduction paired with 100 Magicka Regen is amazing...

    Sure we will lose a little Spell Resist and Max Magicka (pending on how much that 10% Bonus was giving you), but what we are getting in return makes up for it IMHO...


    That said, looking at some of the other races, I'm not sure if they are all on par with one another...

    I think a little more Race Balancing needs to be done...
    Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on January 21, 2019 4:24AM
    Unyeilding Bias
    PSN TheLordofMurder
    PS4 NA
    Magicka Templar
    DC
    The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s
  • Narvuntien
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    Amazing I am very happy with the changes.
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