Adapt to the race changes and quit complaining - changes are always going to happen

Bowser · January 2019

brandonv516 · January 2019

Posted in every one of these threads:

I've paid for 5 race changes in the last 2 years. It would be nice if they took this into consideration when issuing tokens.

I won't pay for even 1 more race change though, won't subscribe, won't buy crates, etc.

And any further DLC purchases for me weigh heavily on the next patch notes and what they intend on fixing/changing.

There's not much we can do with our words (that much is evident), but not paying them more money than they deserve is fair.

Morgul667 · January 2019

Some posts I simply dont get

eso_lags · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you chose your race based on their racial bonuses - a subject that's about to change as often as all other class/race/balance-related aspects in the game - it's solely your fault and not ZOS if you're getting stronger or weaker just depending on that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way how this has been approached - reduced price on race changes tokens several hours before they announced the race changes seems like a very shoddy business practice of generating cash - but you knew it was coming and it's totally in ZOS regard to do so. Usually I don't defend ZOS but this time I have to. You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.

All of the whining, crying and complaining because your race might be 1% or 2% weaker after the patch is absurd. And even if your Dunmer - you just picked because of additional fire damage - or your Khajiit - you just picked because of additional stealth damage - is 5% or 10% weaker after the patch: it does not matter at all. If you chose the race just because of those reasons, to be the best, chase the meta or have max stats, it's your fault that you're weaker now. It was very obvious that the most generic / common race / class / stat combos will be weaker now.

And you know what? The race changes apply to everyone so everyone will be weaker at the same time and you basically lose nothing. In the end the changes are not even final yet so race combos that are still parsing too good in comparison (Magicka Altmer for example) might get slightly reduced to bring them all closer together.

TL;DR:

Adapt to the changes, stop whining. Race changes apply to everybody so if your generic / meta race combo gets weaker everyone else's gets weaker too and in the end nothing changes. If you based your race decision on something as volatile as racial bonuses, that was inevitably about to change in the future, it's your fault if you don't like your race combo anymore.

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

Ya dont worry non competitive players, just keep telling competitive players to shut the *** up. Im sure everyone will listen..

But why dont you tell me why one race change per character is a "ridiculous request". Im curious some of you keep acting like its such an insane request.

They don't have to offer ANY race changes at all. Racial bonuses are not set in stone and they're things about to change. They were changed in the past and they will be changed in the future, there's absolutely no deal about that.

And as I said, it doesn't matter if you're a competitive player or not. The differences are such low percentages that the outcome won't be very much different to what we have now and - as I already said - all competitive players are struck by the changes hence why the changes don't matter for competitive nor casual players.

No they dont. You are right. But if you cant see that this is a blatant cash grab aimed at competitive players, and if you want to support that, then i feel bad for you. And you have no idea what you're talking about. It does matter, percentages actually matter a lot and make a massive difference when you have more.

Yes, all competitive players are struck by the same changes. So when someone, who has spent hundreds of dollars race changing, runs into me who has not been able to do that, they have the advantage. If im on a race useless for what i am doing, then the person spending money gets the advantage. This is disgusting. And if you think the advantage isnt big, you're wrong. This is the same in PVE as well.

Someone on a nord stamplar will have an advantage vs my orc stamplar. Someone on the better race will always have an advantage. Sure i could out play them but why should I not be able to have the right race when I picked the right race years ago? When the basis of races has always been that some are better for certain things, and some are better for other things?

Even when they did race adjustments last time, i got a couple over time. But the changes were not as drastic as these are.. This time they are completely changing what made certain races perfect for certain classes/builds/play styles, and making other races better for those play styles.

Why are they doing this? Well imo, a large part of it is because they know people who want the best will pay up. They *** on orcs so someone like me, who has a lot of orcs, will pay up. Because they are now just bad compared to other races. But someone like you, who doesnt care, thinks its "unreasonable" for them to give us free pixels to race change. Well i think its unreasonable to charge real money for race/appearance/name changes. I also think its unreasonable to make some races garbage for certain things, and then make other better for those same things.

One race per character is not unreasonable. A 2 week grace period, where they make race changes free on the crown store (limit one per account at a time so you cant stack up on them) is not unreasonable.

frostz417 · January 2019

Wtb braincells

Arilenya · January 2019

The differences are such low percentages that the outcome won't be very much different to what we have now and - as I already said - all competitive players are struck by the changes hence why the changes don't matter for competitive nor casual players.

I don't think you quite understand the definition of a competitive player.

To them, the changes are the bottom line for anything they do. No matter how small the gap between something as far as extra stats goes, there is still a gap and competitive players will see that. And it will matter to them, because it is the most effective stats available in a fight for people that count things literally by the digit, even if it is just one.

This is not the main issue of the topic at hand though and it never should be. Most of the frustration that is warranted isn't towards the changes themselves, it is warranted towards the options players have to adapt to these changes.

Think about the actual competitive player, with a years old character who has luckily been meta for a long time, with months worth of character play time and many accolades and titles, perhaps #1 scores in both sides of the world content. Sure, the tides of what works and what doesn't may change over time, but if they want to finally change it up with these changes they have three real options.

One, pay 30 or 40 dollars (Aus$, that'll change depending on whos paying), depending on whether you want the race change alone or the name aswell. For someone who has this much time invested on a character, you would think this should be a no brainier and that people will always have 40 more dollars to invest into such a battleworn and scarred character, but there are people who cannot afford this and I think these people and their current state of reality need to be respected.

Two, be forced to place a pretty hefty amount of gold to another player to gift you a race change token. Again, you are expecting these well off players to have more than enough funds but you're also expecting them to have trust in another player that they may have never met before to purchase an item for them. I really don't see how Zenimax can defend placing this kind of trust in your fellow player in the first place. It should be a trade system you can finalize on the spot in one hit and until that changes, there will be negative bias towards this system.

And three...make a new character. 180 days of horse upgrades. Months and months or ultimately years of PvP Alliance War level ups, Undaunted line, Mages Guild, Craft Lines. Motifs. Research Timers. Achievements. Yes we can agree that a the optimized standing point of this character and their race no longer matters, but what if that player has maxed slots? Will they now be expected to delete a character? Pay for an extra character slot? So many things stopping them from simply accepting this change.

Now I'm gonna say it again. The changes are not wrong, and there are people whining, but some of this whining is feedback that is inaccurately described as whining. We need to respect every stereotypical viewpoint, and while one of those is a highly successful businessman who can accept paying a bunch of crowns for a few race changes, another one of those is a well respected player who puts a lot of time in to be the very pinnacle of player capacity but can't replicate that capacity in the real world. Neither of these people are immediately in the wrong, and quite frankly a lot of people are making it seem like for both sides of that coin it is the case, when in reality neither of these people should suffer because a big portion of the player base believes the changes are right or wrong in the first place.

I don't think we're going to find a middle ground between these situations and the percentage of people truly in that predicament is very small, but I think until race passives are no longer a mechanic (which probably won't happen) we need to respect the possibilities and how this effects every genre of player and listen to what they have to say, provided their viewpoint is rational and not a load of limp wristed twaddle that borders abusive or beyond.

Seraphayel · January 2019

You don't have to race change at all. If you race change and one month later the racials of your newly chosen race are being altered again, what do you do? Race change again? Honestly, it's so silly to even consider race changes based on adjustments made to racials.

CatchMeTrolling · January 2019

I don’t mind the race changes but you’re sounding pretty narrow minded.

mxxo · January 2019

It is eaten what comes to the table!!

Whatever it might be..

jluchau · January 2019

I don't understand why this is a cash grab. It's balancing, and quite frankly I think it's a much needed one. But, that opinion aside. There is nothing about this that should force you to spend money in order to be the best. When I purchased the game originally it came with something like 8 character slots i believe. These slots can be deleted and re-rolled infinitely without additional charge.... the race change token is a convenience. Heck, these days it really isn't that difficult to level a new toon to max so honestly if you don't have the money all it takes is but a little time to get the same result. No need to spend cash.

Siohwenoeht · January 2019

mxxo wrote: »

It is eaten what comes to the table!!

Whatever it might be..

"Etiam mensas consumimus?"
-are we eating even the tables?-

ChunkyCat · January 2019

eso_lags · January 2019

uFuqinwitme wrote: »

The differences are such low percentages that the outcome won't be very much different to what we have now and - as I already said - all competitive players are struck by the changes hence why the changes don't matter for competitive nor casual players.

I don't think you quite understand the definition of a competitive player.

To them, the changes are the bottom line for anything they do. No matter how small the gap between something as far as extra stats goes, there is still a gap and competitive players will see that. And it will matter to them, because it is the most effective stats available in a fight for people that count things literally by the digit, even if it is just one.

This is not the main issue of the topic at hand though and it never should be. Most of the frustration that is warranted isn't towards the changes themselves, it is warranted towards the options players have to adapt to these changes.

Think about the actual competitive player, with a years old character who has luckily been meta for a long time, with months worth of character play time and many accolades and titles, perhaps #1 scores in both sides of the world content. Sure, the tides of what works and what doesn't may change over time, but if they want to finally change it up with these changes they have three real options.

One, pay 30 or 40 dollars (Aus$, that'll change depending on whos paying), depending on whether you want the race change alone or the name aswell. For someone who has this much time invested on a character, you would think this should be a no brainier and that people will always have 40 more dollars to invest into such a battleworn and scarred character, but there are people who cannot afford this and I think these people and their current state of reality need to be respected.

Two, be forced to place a pretty hefty amount of gold to another player to gift you a race change token. Again, you are expecting these well off players to have more than enough funds but you're also expecting them to have trust in another player that they may have never met before to purchase an item for them. I really don't see how Zenimax can defend placing this kind of trust in your fellow player in the first place. It should be a trade system you can finalize on the spot in one hit and until that changes, there will be negative bias towards this system.

And three...make a new character. 180 days of horse upgrades. Months and months or ultimately years of PvP Alliance War level ups, Undaunted line, Mages Guild, Craft Lines. Motifs. Research Timers. Achievements. Yes we can agree that a the optimized standing point of this character and their race no longer matters, but what if that player has maxed slots? Will they now be expected to delete a character? Pay for an extra character slot? So many things stopping them from simply accepting this change.

Now I'm gonna say it again. The changes are not wrong, and there are people whining, but some of this whining is feedback that is inaccurately described as whining. We need to respect every stereotypical viewpoint, and while one of those is a highly successful businessman who can accept paying a bunch of crowns for a few race changes, another one of those is a well respected player who puts a lot of time in to be the very pinnacle of player capacity but can't replicate that capacity in the real world. Neither of these people are immediately in the wrong, and quite frankly a lot of people are making it seem like for both sides of that coin it is the case, when in reality neither of these people should suffer because a big portion of the player base believes the changes are right or wrong in the first place.

I don't think we're going to find a middle ground between these situations and the percentage of people truly in that predicament is very small, but I think until race passives are no longer a mechanic (which probably won't happen) we need to respect the possibilities and how this effects every genre of player and listen to what they have to say, provided their viewpoint is rational and not a load of limp wristed twaddle that borders abusive or beyond.

Well said. I have issues with the changes for sure. I have issues with blanket nerfs, like the speed nerf or the removal of percentage bonuses to the racial passives. But that pales in comparison to zos expecting that all endgame players, with multiple characters, who are going to have races that dont fit what they are doing, to pay for all but one race change. Or to just deal with it.

I guess the easiest way for me to put it is that the positives dont outweigh the negatives here.

On one hand zos will get some people to pay for race changes and make some money. But they will undoubtedly lose some players and cause others to not spend money on principal. And especially *** off those who cannot afford it and are now stuck with a race that is bad for their character, while their friend has a new race perfect for their character, because he/she paid for it..

On the other hand if they do something to give us more free changes (like a 1-2 week grace period, or 1 per char), they make everyone happy. Even the people who dont want to use the race changes lose nothing. And especially the players who are long term supporters of this game, but cannot afford to race change. The only person losing something will be zos losing however many people would have spent money changing all their characters, but i really dont see that number being huge.

And even still they will save however many players this issue is going to chase away, and however many players that will stop paying them because of this. And they have a ton of other things that people will be spending money on.. And on top of that, people will still buy race changes. They are out nothing and doing whats right in a situation like this.

I think zos makes a lot of money of things that some of us dont agree with. A lot of money and a lot of things. I just dont think its that much of a loss for them to do the right thing here, even for a week. They are out nothing except what they could make.. I guess it comes down to potential profits vs whats right for the player base.

OtarTheMad · January 2019

I get why players are mad but I think it's an over reaction. I do get the frustration of re-leveling a character. I was a sorc since beta and loved my sorc. Got a lot of achievements on him and everything but then Warden came out and I am a sucker for ice mages. I am still working on getting achievements... but it's okay.

@uFuqinwitme

I understand what you are saying and all those options suck but why are there already options? Why are players freaking out before it even hits PTS? This ALWAYS happens with big changes.

Seems to me that players are upset about minor things here and there with races along with the obvious token problem. So why don't we come together as a community and help ZOS with these racials? Submit opinions (opinion not raging crap) to Class reps or on the correct PTS feedback thread.

I don't see this as a cash grab at all, why would I buy a race change token right now? It's pointless for them to be on sale right now when changes haven't happened yet. Who would buy them right now with just an announcement of what they will bring to the PTS? I get why it might be later if racial changes still bother people but honestly race has always been a minor detail imho. I have had altmer tanks and bosmer mages and nord healers and all that, they do just fine in dungeons and PvP. I guess sometimes being competitive can be a burden. I am sorry to those who feel so crushed by these changes.

brandonv516 · January 2019

jluchau wrote: »

I don't understand why this is a cash grab. It's balancing, and quite frankly I think it's a much needed one. But, that opinion aside. There is nothing about this that should force you to spend money in order to be the best. When I purchased the game originally it came with something like 8 character slots i believe. These slots can be deleted and re-rolled infinitely without additional charge.... the race change token is a convenience. Heck, these days it really isn't that difficult to level a new toon to max so honestly if you don't have the money all it takes is but a little time to get the same result. No need to spend cash.

Yeah not too difficult and a little time to get those skyshards, magebooks, psijic quests, etc...

eso_lags · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

You don't have to race change at all. If you race change and one month later the racials of your newly chosen race are being altered again, what do you do? Race change again? Honestly, it's so silly to even consider race changes based on adjustments made to racials.

Ive been thinking about this a bit. If this is what the future looks like for racial passives, then what if they mess with them again. But the problem is that they have taken races, that have been the best for certain characters for like 5 years (even through the last racial adjustments), and made other races better for those classes.

Even if they make adjustments in the future, I dont think they will be as radical as these are. I mean they are changing almost every single racial passive in the game. I doubt they will do that again, and if they do i doubt it would be within the next couple years.

So ya, in a situation like this i think they should make the changes free. Its similar to how they change or nerf skills and then make the cost to respec pretty much free for a little while.

Im not sure why people dont say "zos shouldnt reduce the cost of respecing skills, if you cant deal with the new changes to the skill then thats your fault, just pay for it".. I guess its because this is a crown store item? But Im sure zos has sold millions of race change tokens so its not going to hurt their pocket to help the players a bit.

Like i said before, even a 1 week grace period where the tokens are free. Limit them to 1 per account at a time so people cant stock up on them. Ya it sucks for the players who arent playing at the time, but the number of players who actually care about race changing and dont log on at least once a week, or hear about it, would probably be very small.

Sibenice · January 2019

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I get why players are mad but I think it's an over reaction. I do get the frustration of re-leveling a character. I was a sorc since beta and loved my sorc. Got a lot of achievements on him and everything but then Warden came out and I am a sucker for ice mages. I am still working on getting achievements... but it's okay.

@uFuqinwitme

I understand what you are saying and all those options suck but why are there already options? Why are players freaking out before it even hits PTS? This ALWAYS happens with big changes.

Seems to me that players are upset about minor things here and there with races along with the obvious token problem. So why don't we come together as a community and help ZOS with these racials? Submit opinions (opinion not raging crap) to Class reps or on the correct PTS feedback thread.

I wouldn't say most people are freaking out. Obviously some will but most of the post I've seen just people detailing why they are unhappy with them.

Also, in my opinion, changing something that's been fairly steady over the course of the last five years and affects something where the only option to change it is either to pay real money (outside of the single free token we're getting when most of us have numerous 50s) or reroll as well as it being a large part of your visual aesthetic will be something that people will be vocal about.

idk · January 2019

While I agree the pointless threads that are just complaining without offering actual feedback is a little much, mostly because they are as absurd as posting complaining others are complaining.

Granted, some threads have provided actual information as basis for their suggestion instead of just complaining of offering a different set of numbers in a meaningless manner.

In the end, this thread is not better than most of the threads it is complaining about.

Banana · January 2019

Yes sir

ezio45 · January 2019

I think people have a right to complain. I like the changes for the most part but there is room for improvement. I think darkelf khajiit and orc need work. Only a little but still some. I like that it feels like each race offers something to a build now but those darkelf and orc dont offer enough of what they bring to the table to make them a pick over other races for that. kahjiit i think just needs better sustain as a dps option.

Its not about complaining really. Like I said i really like the new changes. But i want every race to be a solid choice not just the majority of them

Tigerseye · January 2019

But, what are the devs actually achieving here?

The races that didn't have a damage boost, before, still won't have one.

So, the supposed "balancing" appears to be balancing nothing very much, at all.

I don't particularly like that most people don't try to fight the injustice (yes, I know it's just a game!) while it's happening and just capitulate and pick an OP race and then, only flood onto the forums to complain when that OP race changes.

Assuming they're not all too busy with real life concerns (as many will be), it's self centred, lazy, sheep-like behaviour, quite frankly.

However, when supposed balancing isn't really proper balancing and people still have to pay to change races (and name change) they do have a right to complain.

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Yes stop complaining
They are giving for FREE more than 10 million token at about 30$ each that is
300 millions dollars worth of free stuff
It seem pretty generous to me when they werent even forced to do it

lol.

They created an artifical demand, that otherwise wouldn't have existed and these tokens cost them absolutely nothing to produce, or distribute.

So, they are not only not worth "300 millions", they are not worth anything at all and people will only buy them, now, because they feel forced to.

I'm all for balancing, but if this is not proper balancing (and it doesn't appear to be), this is just a cash grab.

rexagamemnon · January 2019

Yes, people complain to much on the forums rather than talk about the positives of ESO. Sure i have my own idea on what would be more balanced racial passives but im not gonna cry all day like a child like most people do because the devs didnt do exactly what i want. Most of the people it seems who complain about the devs action seem to have a very high opinion of themselves

WeyounTM · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

I agree with that....for some people this game seems to be "The Elder Numbersgame Online" instead of a GAME. And if you are really that desperate to get the last drop of damage out of your build instead of enjoying the diverity of gear, races and classes...then this is on you. For the vast majority this is not a DPS/Targetskeleton simulator. Don't let the vocal outcry on the forums fool you. The majority of players is not participating here...
Personally I have played mostly Khajiit no matter what. I didn't care about the last bit of DPS or HPS on my healer and did very well regardless. In fact not min maxing makes you more relaxed and in the end your own playerskill is what matters more than your gear. There are a lot of people around that run in BIS gear and races and are mediocre at best...no Alcast easy mode build is gonna change that.

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

OP, I heard it all from my mother when i was 2 years old. All of that is obvious, nothing new, what's point of the topic?

Tasear · January 2019

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you chose your race based on their racial bonuses - a subject that's about to change as often as all other class/race/balance-related aspects in the game - it's solely your fault and not ZOS if you're getting stronger or weaker just depending on that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way how this has been approached - reduced price on race changes tokens several hours before they announced the race changes seems like a very shoddy business practice of generating cash - but you knew it was coming and it's totally in ZOS regard to do so. Usually I don't defend ZOS but this time I have to. You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.

All of the whining, crying and complaining because your race might be 1% or 2% weaker after the patch is absurd. And even if your Dunmer - you just picked because of additional fire damage - or your Khajiit - you just picked because of additional stealth damage - is 5% or 10% weaker after the patch: it does not matter at all. If you chose the race just because of those reasons, to be the best, chase the meta or have max stats, it's your fault that you're weaker now. It was very obvious that the most generic / common race / class / stat combos will be weaker now.

And you know what? The race changes apply to everyone so everyone will be weaker at the same time and you basically lose nothing. In the end the changes are not even final yet so race combos that are still parsing too good in comparison (Magicka Altmer for example) might get slightly reduced to bring them all closer together.

TL;DR:

Adapt to the changes, stop whining. Race changes apply to everybody so if your generic / meta race combo gets weaker everyone else's gets weaker too and in the end nothing changes. If you based your race decision on something as volatile as racial bonuses, that was inevitably about to change in the future, it's your fault if you don't like your race combo anymore.

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

Most Meta chasers don't complain; they adapt.

I don't know about that. Kinda seems like they are ones mostly complaining. Saying all your characters are broken is bull unless dummer. Most of changes are healthy for game.

Lab3360 · January 2019

zyk wrote: »

How about you stop your complaining?

And I'll continue with my feedback, thanks.

Well said

Tigerseye · January 2019

WeyounTM wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

I agree with that....for some people this game seems to be "The Elder Numbersgame Online" instead of a GAME. And if you are really that desperate to get the last drop of damage out of your build instead of enjoying the diverity of gear, races and classes...then this is on you. For the vast majority this is not a DPS/Targetskeleton simulator. Don't let the vocal outcry on the forums fool you. The majority of players is not participating here...
Personally I have played mostly Khajiit no matter what. I didn't care about the last bit of DPS or HPS on my healer and did very well regardless. In fact not min maxing makes you more relaxed and in the end your own playerskill is what matters more than your gear. There are a lot of people around that run in BIS gear and races and are mediocre at best...no Alcast easy mode build is gonna change that.

On one level I agree with you.

I play a Bosmer, even though it is viewed as sub par in PVE, because I liked the idea of a Wood Elf Warden, with a bow and a pet and that is that.

Actually, I started with a Bosmer Sorc with a bow, as there were no Wardens back then...

However, from my own experience, I can tell you that that is just not how it works in the upper echelons of mmos.

Having fun is great, I agree with you on that, but people are expected to min/max, if they want to participate in harder content.

I don't participate in the upper levels of this game, because I don't want to get sucked into all that, again...

Especially in a game which I find kind of random, unbalanced and illogical, in the way it's designed and in which I can't move my character in the way I prefer.

I "real raided" a bit in WoW; that was more than enough, frankly.

I would do LFR in this game, if they introduced it, but that would be it, for me.

But, for the people who do participate at the top of a game - pretty much any game - this kind of thing will affect them.

They're not just making up things to worry about.

eso_lags · January 2019

Tasear wrote: »

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you chose your race based on their racial bonuses - a subject that's about to change as often as all other class/race/balance-related aspects in the game - it's solely your fault and not ZOS if you're getting stronger or weaker just depending on that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way how this has been approached - reduced price on race changes tokens several hours before they announced the race changes seems like a very shoddy business practice of generating cash - but you knew it was coming and it's totally in ZOS regard to do so. Usually I don't defend ZOS but this time I have to. You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.

All of the whining, crying and complaining because your race might be 1% or 2% weaker after the patch is absurd. And even if your Dunmer - you just picked because of additional fire damage - or your Khajiit - you just picked because of additional stealth damage - is 5% or 10% weaker after the patch: it does not matter at all. If you chose the race just because of those reasons, to be the best, chase the meta or have max stats, it's your fault that you're weaker now. It was very obvious that the most generic / common race / class / stat combos will be weaker now.

And you know what? The race changes apply to everyone so everyone will be weaker at the same time and you basically lose nothing. In the end the changes are not even final yet so race combos that are still parsing too good in comparison (Magicka Altmer for example) might get slightly reduced to bring them all closer together.

TL;DR:

Adapt to the changes, stop whining. Race changes apply to everybody so if your generic / meta race combo gets weaker everyone else's gets weaker too and in the end nothing changes. If you based your race decision on something as volatile as racial bonuses, that was inevitably about to change in the future, it's your fault if you don't like your race combo anymore.

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

Most Meta chasers don't complain; they adapt.

I don't know about that. Kinda seems like they are ones mostly complaining. Saying all your characters are broken is bull unless dummer. Most of changes are healthy for game.

Most people are giving feedback on some arguably bad changes and some very bad implications for certain players. Im honestly surprised by a lot of things ive read on here today.

Many of us think this looks like a cash grab. If zos gives us 1 race change per character, or unlimited race changes for 1-2 weeks, so many of us would deal with the changes. Ya, I dont like some of the changes but thats not my main issue. My issue is 2 things. First zos changing certain races so that there will still be "best" races for certain characters, but now you will need a race change to get those race$.

Second is that people who want to spend tons of money are going to be able to have the better race for their character, meanwhile those who cant pay up are stuck with a race not suited for their character. This is wrong. These arent skills we're talking about, this is much worse. Why is it fine for them to make it nearly free to re-spec skills for a while after they nerf/change skills? Why is this all of a sudden an issue when it comes to races?

I dont know your stance on 1 race change per char, etc.. But i know that most people arguing against it are people who dont play competitively or just dont want to change. But ive seen plenty of people who dont want the race change tokens agreeing that its the right move from zos.. Regardless, I just wanted to tell you its not always just complaining because of the changes themselves. And what you said about just dunmer is wrong. Orc has gotten hit pretty bad, to the point where if the changes stay i will need to change every orc i have. A lot of the new passives are pretty bad, and nord is far more superior now. And these type of things matter in pvp, pve, and especially for me in solo pvp.

iiYuki · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.
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I wouldn't say its a rediculous request, its not like race changes are actually worth anything other than the price ZO$ put on it or cost anything to make.
I think people with multiple characters are angry because now to play at their best may feel they may HAVE to buy multiple race changes, coupled with the fact the changes came out of nowhere makes it seem like a calculated move the next thing we'll see it changes going on sale for 25% or 50% off.

Arrodisia · January 2019

Looks like someone was skimming and missed all the other reasons in the many threads why people are justified to want the race and name changes for free and way to go. You basically, created a thread to tell your fellow players to eat the turd sandwich we've been handed over an issue that costs ZOS no money to actually rectify, and was created through their own mistakes not ours. I'm glad you feel you can defend shady business practices, but I can't and won't. We can complain if we feel something is unfair whether you like it or not.

People already see through this whole money grab. That one half of a change token is no kind gesture at all. It's a ploy, and a bad one at that. So many people have many alts which they play a lot. THis doesn't just impact the meta players eithers.

I completely disagree with ZOS's stance on this subject. It seems similar to a bait and switch tactic. It's one thing to open a crown store to sell some outfits and mounts, but it's a whole other thing to charge players for their own balancing mistakes. They can happily sell whatever cosmetic outfits, mounts and pets they want, but don't try to resell the player base balancing changes outside of the existing sub, dlc's and expansions. yes balancing according to ZOS over the years is included in the ESO plus model.

When class ability changes came they weren't all game breaking. Yet because the skill changes only cost gold it was given almost for free, and sometimes they were just flat out reset. So people could play using other abilities. So now because tokens are RL money and not gold they want to cash in. I think not and definitely not to this extreme. Even at a reduced price these would be ridculously expensive for people with a full load of chars, and this isn't a burden the players should be carrying at all, not one cent of it.

Unfortunately, I must agree with the majority on this one.

They can't say "ok. You're paying for the dlc's and expansions, and now pay for something we (ZOS)changed within them."
The point remains that they changed the races and people should be able to change to whatever they want regardless of reason for free.
1 time race and name change per char for free. put timers on it for a week or whatever. That's fine.

The charge is not even remotely justified and too costly to push on the player base. It will cost more than the expansion and sub together for those who already have many chars they actively play which a lot of players do.

They (ZOS) even comment that people may have made these races to be competitive with those passives available to them and now they should feel they can play what they want, with less disadvantages, but it's going to cost them. Why? They should've always been able to play what they want "without being at a disadvantage". I do get they want the changes, and so do we. That normally wouldn't be a problem, but the entire change stems from their balancing problems from the beginning. So no. It shouldn't rest on the players to pay extra for those changes. Giving us the race/name changes will cost them nothing. They'll still make plenty of money in the crown store. They can act in good faith and turn this whole thing around without the clueless white knight entourage coming out to defend this shady money grab. It all rests in ZOS's hands right now. They'll either do the right thing or they won't. This is just imho.