Adapt to the race changes and quit complaining - changes are always going to happen

Tetrafy

Eh true, it's just too bad Devs just want to nerf everything and make it 4v4 halo3mlg settings for everything. Its stale and people play games to stomp sometimes. You take away niche builds youre only going to have bis builds which are like 5 yawn boring.

Seraphayel

None of the race changes (and I mean none) justifies a race change at all. Nevertheless ZOS is handing out one free race change per account.

And some players really want two, three, four or even an unlimited number of race changes for a specific amount of time?

I don't know if this is either ridiculous or totally absurd. The changes are not as massive or game changing as a lot of you make them out to be. Most of them are rather minor adjustments but anything else. It doesn't matter, neither for you nor ZOS, that your desired race combo is 1-5% weaker than before. The changes apply to EVERYBODY hence nothing, absolutely nothing changes in the end.

Arrodisia

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

Facefister

"Adapt to the race changes and quit complaining - changes are always going to happen Bookmark"

Wowow, slow down the hatespeech buddy.

Tetrafy

Seraphayel wrote: »

None of the race changes (and I mean none) justifies a race change at all. Nevertheless ZOS is handing out one free race change per account.

And some players really want two, three, four or even an unlimited number of race changes for a specific amount of time?

I don't know if this is either ridiculous or totally absurd. The changes are not as massive or game changing as a lot of you make them out to be. Most of them are rather minor adjustments but anything else. It doesn't matter, neither for you nor ZOS, that your desired race combo is 1-5% weaker than before. The changes apply to EVERYBODY hence nothing, absolutely nothing changes in the end.

Shouldnt make a game where you need to make 5 different chracters to play differemt classes.

paulychan

Rise of the kitten mage. I have an extra slot am am going to try one

zaria

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

It does not change the meta much, better of all its mostly an buff, lots included me assumed an hard nerf to racials.
Agonians got an moderate nerf, but that was expected. Altmer and Redguards is probably better off.
Its one build who was hit hard: Dunmer magic dragonknight as Dunmer got lost its 7% flame damage bonus and DK does lots of fire damage. To compensate they got spell and weapon damage so like Khajiit they can do both magic and stamia builds.

Yes that is big surprise with this update. You should expect them to be as happy as the Khajiit.
But it hit the Dunmer magDK meta hard and they are the ones complaining.

Ozby

Seraphayel wrote: »

You don't have to race change at all. If you race change and one month later the racials of your newly chosen race are being altered again, what do you do? Race change again? Honestly, it's so silly to even consider race changes based on adjustments made to racials.

I don't think you will ever understand from what I have read here, how ever I think this is a cash grab and it is very unfair to the community to do this and not allow people the choice to adjust their toons to fit with the changes. Its like when you buy something for a intended purpose and when that item doesn't do what is intended you get your money back. Well same principle here.

Seraphayel

Ozby wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

You don't have to race change at all. If you race change and one month later the racials of your newly chosen race are being altered again, what do you do? Race change again? Honestly, it's so silly to even consider race changes based on adjustments made to racials.

I don't think you will ever understand from what I have read here, how ever I think this is a cash grab and it is very unfair to the community to do this and not allow people the choice to adjust their toons to fit with the changes. Its like when you buy something for a intended purpose and when that item doesn't do what is intended you get your money back. Well same principle here.

As I said in my very first post here, I do not support the cash grab ZOS might try to do here. It's a very strange occurrence that race change tokens were on sale shortly before the first details of the changes were announced, someone with knowledge about laws etc. can judge this better.

What bugs me in the end is the incredible overreaction of parts of the community (meta crowd?).

Tavore1138

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you chose your race based on their racial bonuses - a subject that's about to change as often as all other class/race/balance-related aspects in the game - it's solely your fault and not ZOS if you're getting stronger or weaker just depending on that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way how this has been approached - reduced price on race changes tokens several hours before they announced the race changes seems like a very shoddy business practice of generating cash - but you knew it was coming and it's totally in ZOS regard to do so. Usually I don't defend ZOS but this time I have to. You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.

All of the whining, crying and complaining because your race might be 1% or 2% weaker after the patch is absurd. And even if your Dunmer - you just picked because of additional fire damage - or your Khajiit - you just picked because of additional stealth damage - is 5% or 10% weaker after the patch: it does not matter at all. If you chose the race just because of those reasons, to be the best, chase the meta or have max stats, it's your fault that you're weaker now. It was very obvious that the most generic / common race / class / stat combos will be weaker now.

And you know what? The race changes apply to everyone so everyone will be weaker at the same time and you basically lose nothing. In the end the changes are not even final yet so race combos that are still parsing too good in comparison (Magicka Altmer for example) might get slightly reduced to bring them all closer together.

TL;DR:

Adapt to the changes, stop whining. Race changes apply to everybody so if your generic / meta race combo gets weaker everyone else's gets weaker too and in the end nothing changes. If you based your race decision on something as volatile as racial bonuses, that was inevitably about to change in the future, it's your fault if you don't like your race combo anymore.

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

Thanks for the scolding. I actually agree with the basis of what you said but I still find the tone of your post incredibly annoying and smug.

Arrodisia

zaria wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

It does not change the meta much, better of all its mostly an buff, lots included me assumed an hard nerf to racials.
Agonians got an moderate nerf, but that was expected. Altmer and Redguards is probably better off.
Its one build who was hit hard: Dunmer magic dragonknight as Dunmer got lost its 7% flame damage bonus and DK does lots of fire damage. To compensate they got spell and weapon damage so like Khajiit they can do both magic and stamia builds.

Yes that is big surprise with this update. You should expect them to be as happy as the Khajiit.
But it hit the Dunmer magDK meta hard and they are the ones complaining.

There's so much more to the issue than that, which is why I made this statement in the first place. It doesn't impact just meta chars or just one race. We already know what the changes are. The numbers don't change the fundamental problem in every thread on this topic. It's a shady deal all around. If you only look at meta, you don't see the whole problem which is why I asked the people in that comment to look at the other threads on this subject for the last 2 days in their entirety. So they don't remain in the dark about it. We accept change, but we don't accept how it's burden is being thrown unfairly onto the player base. This is a balancing issue and balancing according to ZOS is covered in our ESO Plus costs not to mention everything else we pay for (expansions, dlcs and such), but you can read the rest of the details and reasons in the other threads on this subject. I won't bore the others by repeating the many points over and over since they're already available on this site. The player base has a right to be upset and heard on this platform. If we want to express our complaints about being treated unfairly we can and we will.

Seraphayel

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you chose your race based on their racial bonuses - a subject that's about to change as often as all other class/race/balance-related aspects in the game - it's solely your fault and not ZOS if you're getting stronger or weaker just depending on that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way how this has been approached - reduced price on race changes tokens several hours before they announced the race changes seems like a very shoddy business practice of generating cash - but you knew it was coming and it's totally in ZOS regard to do so. Usually I don't defend ZOS but this time I have to. You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.

All of the whining, crying and complaining because your race might be 1% or 2% weaker after the patch is absurd. And even if your Dunmer - you just picked because of additional fire damage - or your Khajiit - you just picked because of additional stealth damage - is 5% or 10% weaker after the patch: it does not matter at all. If you chose the race just because of those reasons, to be the best, chase the meta or have max stats, it's your fault that you're weaker now. It was very obvious that the most generic / common race / class / stat combos will be weaker now.

And you know what? The race changes apply to everyone so everyone will be weaker at the same time and you basically lose nothing. In the end the changes are not even final yet so race combos that are still parsing too good in comparison (Magicka Altmer for example) might get slightly reduced to bring them all closer together.

TL;DR:

Adapt to the changes, stop whining. Race changes apply to everybody so if your generic / meta race combo gets weaker everyone else's gets weaker too and in the end nothing changes. If you based your race decision on something as volatile as racial bonuses, that was inevitably about to change in the future, it's your fault if you don't like your race combo anymore.

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

Thanks for the scolding. I actually agree with the basis of what you said but I still find the tone of your post incredibly annoying and smug.

I did not want to be smug or annoying. It was just an reaction after scrolling through two, three, four forum pages that are all filled with threads about why ZOS is destroying race combos, complaining about people being 1.23% weaker than before and crying/complaining/whatsoever. I was annoyed when I wrote this post, so this is my fault. I just find the overreaction and general attitude of the complainer crowd about the upcoming changes to be very... spoiled.

If it would be reasonable complaining, I wouldn't have a problem. I complain often in this forum about other topics. There is good feedback about the changes that's very welcome to read and where I agree as well. But most of the posts regarding this topic are just negative bragging about how ZOS is destroying the meta.

Starlock

@Seraphayel

Thanks for better articulating something I was trying to say earlier. Taking responsibility for one's own decisions and expectations is something I feel is important. That said, I disagree with you on one point.

By all means, those who take issue with the changes can and should voice that - or "whine" as you put it. Whoever is doing marketing decisions for this company has a history of being okay with exploitative and ethically questionable methods. The cash shop has been a problem for at least a couple of years now, and honestly? If the cash shop wasn't the unethical, overpriced beast that it is, I don't think we'd be seeing nearly the outrage about race changes as we are. I don't know what the solution to that is. After the 30+ thread page protesting the obscene cost of the outfit system and no response or changes beyond occasional sales, it's pretty clear to me that marketing isn't going to suddenly start being ethical in the cash shop. In spite of that, I think it's important to continue to call out unethical monetization of games lest it become more normalized than it already has.

OtarTheMad

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

Just stop, I get why people are upset but do they not realize that this happens in games? The forums were full of people asking for change so they did. They are just trying to make their game better, that's it. You guys have all the right to be upset and voice it but so do we with how you all are reacting.

I feel bad for ZOS, they can't win in any situation sometimes. In this one, if they had left racials the way that they are people would be asking for changes and saying: ZOS is "ignoring the fanbase". Instead they try to make some adjustments on a game that is changing constantly and all of this happens.

Seraphayel

@Starlock totally agree with you here. The one thing about the racial changes is the business decision about it which I condemn as much as everybody else. I don't want to call this scam because I'm not really into legal topics that much but it very much feels like this. And I totally understand the anger when it's about the race change tokens and the crown store.

OtarTheMad

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

You don't have to race change at all. If you race change and one month later the racials of your newly chosen race are being altered again, what do you do? Race change again? Honestly, it's so silly to even consider race changes based on adjustments made to racials.

I don't think you will ever understand from what I have read here, how ever I think this is a cash grab and it is very unfair to the community to do this and not allow people the choice to adjust their toons to fit with the changes. Its like when you buy something for a intended purpose and when that item doesn't do what is intended you get your money back. Well same principle here.

As I said in my very first post here, I do not support the cash grab ZOS might try to do here. It's a very strange occurrence that race change tokens were on sale shortly before the first details of the changes were announced, someone with knowledge about laws etc. can judge this better.

What bugs me in the end is the incredible overreaction of parts of the community (meta crowd?).

It is strange that race change tokens went on sale before this announcement but honestly... who would buy them right now? I don't see it as a cash grab unless ZOS is targeting those who think the sky is falling. To buy a race change token right now and maybe even changing the race of a character because of the announcement is kind of over looking the fact that these aren't even final, PTS will change some of these new racial passives.

Iluvrien

Seraphayel wrote: »

The changes apply to EVERYBODY hence nothing, absolutely nothing changes in the end.

You mean all of the PvE mobs, delve bosses, world bosses, dungeon bosses etc. are getting nerfed too?

I must have missed that in their announcement. Could you point me to the location where it is? Thanks.

Seraphayel

Iluvrien wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

The changes apply to EVERYBODY hence nothing, absolutely nothing changes in the end.

You mean all of the PvE mobs, delve bosses, world bosses, dungeon bosses etc. are getting nerfed too?

I must have missed that in their announcement. Could you point me to the location where it is? Thanks.

In which way would this even matter? The game is far too easy in every aspect except HM trials and some of the newer DLC dungeons. And even then, all of the players are struck by the changes. I don't even understand your argument about the PvE NPCs, it doesn't matter in the slightest way.

Arrodisia

OtarTheMad wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

Just stop, I get why people are upset but do they not realize that this happens in games? The forums were full of people asking for change so they did. They are just trying to make their game better, that's it. You guys have all the right to be upset and voice it but so do we with how you all are reacting.

I feel bad for ZOS, they can't win in any situation sometimes. In this one, if they had left racials the way that they are people would be asking for changes and saying: ZOS is "ignoring the fanbase". Instead they try to make some adjustments on a game that is changing constantly and all of this happens.

lol. You feel sorry for ZOS ripping off their customers. Are you trolling, serious, or what? They certainly can make it right, and at no cost for themselves.

I will, absolutely, not stop commenting on this subject. The player base is right here, and I won't be ordered by you or anyone else to not comment in these forums. You can cowtow and eat the turd sandwich if you want, but I won't and I won't let ZOS feed it to the other players who are unhappy with it either. There is a good reason so many threads are up. The player base is upset and rightfully so.

We can adapt to changes, but we won't accept the heavy financial burden they bring. Zos can defend themselves and do the right thing here or not. It's that simple. You have no right to try to stop me from speaking out.

Arrodisia

We put a postive suggestion out there. Race and name resets for 7 days just like the skill resets would function for balancing patches. It will cost them nothing. There isn't anything negative about that. It's win win for ZOS and the player base. They come out as a shining honest business and the players are spending their cash once again on dlcs, expacs, eso plus, and on the store goodies. It's rather preferable than losing the players' business on such a sour note.

Tavore1138

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you chose your race based on their racial bonuses - a subject that's about to change as often as all other class/race/balance-related aspects in the game - it's solely your fault and not ZOS if you're getting stronger or weaker just depending on that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way how this has been approached - reduced price on race changes tokens several hours before they announced the race changes seems like a very shoddy business practice of generating cash - but you knew it was coming and it's totally in ZOS regard to do so. Usually I don't defend ZOS but this time I have to. You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.

All of the whining, crying and complaining because your race might be 1% or 2% weaker after the patch is absurd. And even if your Dunmer - you just picked because of additional fire damage - or your Khajiit - you just picked because of additional stealth damage - is 5% or 10% weaker after the patch: it does not matter at all. If you chose the race just because of those reasons, to be the best, chase the meta or have max stats, it's your fault that you're weaker now. It was very obvious that the most generic / common race / class / stat combos will be weaker now.

And you know what? The race changes apply to everyone so everyone will be weaker at the same time and you basically lose nothing. In the end the changes are not even final yet so race combos that are still parsing too good in comparison (Magicka Altmer for example) might get slightly reduced to bring them all closer together.

TL;DR:

Adapt to the changes, stop whining. Race changes apply to everybody so if your generic / meta race combo gets weaker everyone else's gets weaker too and in the end nothing changes. If you based your race decision on something as volatile as racial bonuses, that was inevitably about to change in the future, it's your fault if you don't like your race combo anymore.

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

Thanks for the scolding. I actually agree with the basis of what you said but I still find the tone of your post incredibly annoying and smug.

I did not want to be smug or annoying. It was just an reaction after scrolling through two, three, four forum pages that are all filled with threads about why ZOS is destroying race combos, complaining about people being 1.23% weaker than before and crying/complaining/whatsoever. I was annoyed when I wrote this post, so this is my fault. I just find the overreaction and general attitude of the complainer crowd about the upcoming changes to be very... spoiled.

If it would be reasonable complaining, I wouldn't have a problem. I complain often in this forum about other topics. There is good feedback about the changes that's very welcome to read and where I agree as well. But most of the posts regarding this topic are just negative bragging about how ZOS is destroying the meta.

Hmmm, OK i see where you are coming from - the latest proposed changes don't really bother me much but these days I am in casual mode so if I lose a couple of % in my DPS I am not going to miss it. I can also see why some people might be a bit cross though if they are all about that top score or faster kill - calling them whiners isn't going to help anything

Lifemocker

Tholian1 wrote: »

Another post complaining about people giving feedback. Just take what is given. No discussions allowed.

So it’s forbidden make any comment about the community.

Ertosi

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Yes stop complaining
They are giving for FREE more than 10 million token at about 30$ each that is
300 millions dollars worth of free stuff
It seem pretty generous to me when they werent even forced to do it

It's a digital product. Those Race Change Tokens cost them nothing to "make", so they're giving 0 dollars worth of free stuff away. It's a pittance.

OtarTheMad

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

Just stop, I get why people are upset but do they not realize that this happens in games? The forums were full of people asking for change so they did. They are just trying to make their game better, that's it. You guys have all the right to be upset and voice it but so do we with how you all are reacting.

I feel bad for ZOS, they can't win in any situation sometimes. In this one, if they had left racials the way that they are people would be asking for changes and saying: ZOS is "ignoring the fanbase". Instead they try to make some adjustments on a game that is changing constantly and all of this happens.

lol. You feel sorry for ZOS ripping off their customers. Are you trolling, serious, or what? They certainly can make it right, and at no cost for themselves.

I will, absolutely, not stop commenting on this subject. The player base is right here, and I won't be ordered by you or anyone else to not comment in these forums. You can cowtow and eat the turd sandwich if you want, but I won't and I won't let ZOS feed it to the other players who are unhappy with it either. There is a good reason so many threads are up. The player base is upset and rightfully so.

We can adapt to changes, but we won't accept the heavy financial burden they bring. Zos can defend themselves and do the right thing here or not. It's that simple. You have no right to try to stop me from speaking out.

I am not ordering you to stop even though it sounds that way, it's a free world. I am just frustrated and I can have my opinion as well without players asking me if I am serious, or stupid (or being called worse) for having it, or blind or eating a turd sandwich. I have an opinion too and will not be talked down to for having it.

So far I have been trying to be respectful to others (most my posts start with "I understand" or "I respect") opinions but honestly this issue just brought out ugly in people and I am done trying to be nice to people who just insult and talk down to others who are just simply stating an opinion.

zaria

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

It does not change the meta much, better of all its mostly an buff, lots included me assumed an hard nerf to racials.
Agonians got an moderate nerf, but that was expected. Altmer and Redguards is probably better off.
Its one build who was hit hard: Dunmer magic dragonknight as Dunmer got lost its 7% flame damage bonus and DK does lots of fire damage. To compensate they got spell and weapon damage so like Khajiit they can do both magic and stamia builds.

Yes that is big surprise with this update. You should expect them to be as happy as the Khajiit.
But it hit the Dunmer magDK meta hard and they are the ones complaining.

There's so much more to the issue than that, which is why I made this statement in the first place. It doesn't impact just meta chars or just one race. We already know what the changes are. The numbers don't change the fundamental problem in every thread on this topic. It's a shady deal all around. If you only look at meta, you don't see the whole problem which is why I asked the people in that comment to look at the other threads on this subject for the last 2 days in their entirety. So they don't remain in the dark about it. We accept change, but we don't accept how it's burden is being thrown unfairly onto the player base. This is a balancing issue and balancing according to ZOS is covered in our ESO Plus costs not to mention everything else we pay for (expansions, dlcs and such), but you can read the rest of the details and reasons in the other threads on this subject. I won't bore the others by repeating the many points over and over since they're already available on this site. The player base has a right to be upset and heard on this platform. If we want to express our complaints about being treated unfairly we can and we will.

I supposed to reply to Seraphayel but replayed to you instead by mistake. My comment don't make so much sense against your.

Honestly I don't see the shady deal here outside of no name change to follow it.
Yes you might want to change into an Khajiit magic build, an Dunmer stamina or an nord tank simply because you always wanted that race and its now viable.
That is an very valid point.
And yes free race changes had been nice.

However:
Morrowind changed the racial balance around a lot because sustain became an serious issue.
Murkmire reduced the survivablity of magic build a lot, took my Khajit Sorcerer since preorder stamina because of that
I say that these changes was just as dramatic as this update.

zyk

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I feel bad for ZOS, they can't win in any situation sometimes. In this one, if they had left racials the way that they are people would be asking for changes and saying: ZOS is "ignoring the fanbase". Instead they try to make some adjustments on a game that is changing constantly and all of this happens.

No one should feel bad for ZOS for having customers and pretty much everyone with customers has to handle them.

ZOS made a major error. It has nothing to do with the stats directly. The mistake they made was changing the identity of some races after almost 5 years. They could have adjusted balance while preserving racial identities.

OtarTheMad

zyk wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I feel bad for ZOS, they can't win in any situation sometimes. In this one, if they had left racials the way that they are people would be asking for changes and saying: ZOS is "ignoring the fanbase". Instead they try to make some adjustments on a game that is changing constantly and all of this happens.

No one should feel bad for ZOS for having customers and pretty much everyone with customers has to handle them.

ZOS made a major error. It has nothing to do with the stats directly. The mistake they made was changing the identity of some races after almost 5 years. They could have adjusted balance while preserving racial identities.

ZOS has changed racial passives a few times over the years but every time they try to adjust things on a major scale the community blows up.

I remember when ZOS was going to change Nimble from having health recovery to max stamina and the uproar was HUGE to the point where ZOS deleted the change extremely quickly. Now how does that change that they wanted to make look? Makes sense right? But, I believe (could be wrong) but Khajiit's were top race at the time and meta I think was Health Regen tanks, so that hurt meta. However, ZOS saw the bigger picture and wanted to help us.

Anyway, I don't think this was a major error because they aren't finished changing things yet. However, I am done talking about this topic as most people (not saying you) can't do a healthy and fun back and forth with respect both ways and it's just frustrating to me. Have a good day.

zaria

OtarTheMad wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I feel bad for ZOS, they can't win in any situation sometimes. In this one, if they had left racials the way that they are people would be asking for changes and saying: ZOS is "ignoring the fanbase". Instead they try to make some adjustments on a game that is changing constantly and all of this happens.

No one should feel bad for ZOS for having customers and pretty much everyone with customers has to handle them.

ZOS made a major error. It has nothing to do with the stats directly. The mistake they made was changing the identity of some races after almost 5 years. They could have adjusted balance while preserving racial identities.

ZOS has changed racial passives a few times over the years but every time they try to adjust things on a major scale the community blows up.

I remember when ZOS was going to change Nimble from having health recovery to max stamina and the uproar was HUGE to the point where ZOS deleted the change extremely quickly. Now how does that change that they wanted to make look? Makes sense right? But, I believe (could be wrong) but Khajiit's were top race at the time and meta I think was Health Regen tanks, so that hurt meta. However, ZOS saw the bigger picture and wanted to help us.

Anyway, I don't think this was a major error because they aren't finished changing things yet. However, I am done talking about this topic as most people (not saying you) can't do a healthy and fun back and forth with respect both ways and it's just frustrating to me. Have a good day.

Honestly this time I only see three things:
Khajiit and Dunmer envy.
Dunmer magDK complaining about potential nerf. See above point.
People asking for free race changes.
Yes its some other stuff but minor, scream for an buff and you might get it.

I and probably lots of other feared race balancing would be an nuke to racial skills.
That create balance the same way an nuked area is peaceful.
Instead pretty much all walk out with an buff. An Argonian nerf was pretty obvious.
Redguards and Altmer are still praying,
Most don't want to rock the boat.

Jeremy

Seraphayel wrote: »

If you chose your race based on their racial bonuses - a subject that's about to change as often as all other class/race/balance-related aspects in the game - it's solely your fault and not ZOS if you're getting stronger or weaker just depending on that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the way how this has been approached - reduced price on race changes tokens several hours before they announced the race changes seems like a very shoddy business practice of generating cash - but you knew it was coming and it's totally in ZOS regard to do so. Usually I don't defend ZOS but this time I have to. You get one free race change which they did not have to offer at all. Stop asking for unlimited race changes or one race change per character or whatsoever - that's just a ridiculous request.

All of the whining, crying and complaining because your race might be 1% or 2% weaker after the patch is absurd. And even if your Dunmer - you just picked because of additional fire damage - or your Khajiit - you just picked because of additional stealth damage - is 5% or 10% weaker after the patch: it does not matter at all. If you chose the race just because of those reasons, to be the best, chase the meta or have max stats, it's your fault that you're weaker now. It was very obvious that the most generic / common race / class / stat combos will be weaker now.

And you know what? The race changes apply to everyone so everyone will be weaker at the same time and you basically lose nothing. In the end the changes are not even final yet so race combos that are still parsing too good in comparison (Magicka Altmer for example) might get slightly reduced to bring them all closer together.

TL;DR:

Adapt to the changes, stop whining. Race changes apply to everybody so if your generic / meta race combo gets weaker everyone else's gets weaker too and in the end nothing changes. If you based your race decision on something as volatile as racial bonuses, that was inevitably about to change in the future, it's your fault if you don't like your race combo anymore.

If you're always chasing the meta you'll never be satisfied and always be disappointed because of any changes that will be made.

I agree and disagree. People have a right to complain and should complain when changes happen they don't approve of. That is - after all - the purpose of a video game forum to begin with. It's not for everyone to just shut up and accept everything that happens. Which seems to be the argument you are making here.

Where I agree is that people who freak out and scream holy hell over a few percents are being ridiculous. The "meta chaser" crowd as you describe it are too obsessive over their numbers and precious dps. Most of the racial changes I have read about look fine to me. From what I saw, most of them were just fine-tuning of the existing racial passives. Though if they took away a Dummner's fire-based bonuses players who chose them for this reason have a legitimate beef IMHO.

I also disagree with you that requesting free race change tokens for each of their characters is unreasonable. I don't believe it is. When ever developers make significant changes to the game they should compensate their players for it. I'm glad they are at least offering one per account. Since I really only concentrate on a single character anyway that is sufficient for me. But that doesn't make me blind to the concerns of others who play many characters.

Arrodisia

OtarTheMad wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Another one who just skimmed through and missed all the reasons why this is so wrong and why it isn't just impacting meta chars. Please go back and read the entire thread. Then go read all of the other threads in the last 2 days about the same subject. Then you'll understand why it isn't absurd at all and how justified the people are to ask for race and name changes on all chars. We're not going to repay for their balancing mistakes, (Btw, balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO Plus.)and we have a right to complain here in the forums whether clueless defenders of shady practices like it or not. Instead of just jumping on the soap box to tell people to eat the turd sandwich, let ZOS decide for themselves if they'll do the right thing and rectify the mistakes they made or not.

Just stop, I get why people are upset but do they not realize that this happens in games? The forums were full of people asking for change so they did. They are just trying to make their game better, that's it. You guys have all the right to be upset and voice it but so do we with how you all are reacting.

I feel bad for ZOS, they can't win in any situation sometimes. In this one, if they had left racials the way that they are people would be asking for changes and saying: ZOS is "ignoring the fanbase". Instead they try to make some adjustments on a game that is changing constantly and all of this happens.

lol. You feel sorry for ZOS ripping off their customers. Are you trolling, serious, or what? They certainly can make it right, and at no cost for themselves.

I will, absolutely, not stop commenting on this subject. The player base is right here, and I won't be ordered by you or anyone else to not comment in these forums. You can cowtow and eat the turd sandwich if you want, but I won't and I won't let ZOS feed it to the other players who are unhappy with it either. There is a good reason so many threads are up. The player base is upset and rightfully so.

We can adapt to changes, but we won't accept the heavy financial burden they bring. Zos can defend themselves and do the right thing here or not. It's that simple. You have no right to try to stop me from speaking out.

I am not ordering you to stop even though it sounds that way, it's a free world. I am just frustrated and I can have my opinion as well without players asking me if I am serious, or stupid (or being called worse) for having it, or blind or eating a turd sandwich. I have an opinion too and will not be talked down to for having it.

So far I have been trying to be respectful to others (most my posts start with "I understand" or "I respect") opinions but honestly this issue just brought out ugly in people and I am done trying to be nice to people who just insult and talk down to others who are just simply stating an opinion.

Maybe someone else said you were stupid, but I surely did not. Also, I didn't state. I asked, because it wasn't completely clear if you had all of the facts, or if you were just defending them for the sake of defending ZOS. I didn't say at any point you can't have your opinion either.

You're frustrated and that is fine, but taking it out on me or any other player is not the way to go. At no time did I insult you at all. Even the sandwich comment wasn't on you it was on what ZOS is giving us. Try not to take these threads so personally unless you directly get attacked. ZOS created this imbalance and this situation. Your gripe is really with them. We're here in these threads because of their shady plans. Maybe you didn't mean to order me to stop, but you did say it. This isn't even one of those situations where they can't win, because they actually can by just doing the right thing. It's pretty simple. Also, ZOS wants our feedback. They want to know what we like and dislike about the game. Let's just chalk this up to a misunderstanding because I did not insult you in that comment.