zaria wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

At first glance, these changes are minor.

People are freaking out, but Redguards appear to still be Stam Kings and Altmer Mag.

Why is everyone panicking??

Overall its look good, i expected an morrowind level nerf feast. Instead it was mostly buffs.
Agonians got an nerf, that was pretty predictable, they are still excellent.
Altmer and especially Redguards should be still be praying.
Khajiit magic builds had it not been for the shield nerfs I would still be shotting 30 year old cognac since yesterday.
Other races, Orc is now an BIS stam DD while Nord look like an good tank. Breton is good,
Dunmer, the Dunmer magDK meta got destroyed. All other builds are buffed.
Note that the Dunmer nerf might be an unintended consequence as its just one build.

Dunmer and Khajiit can now be both magic and stamina builds and still close to meta level, that is priceless.
We have the two bis races for necromancer as we know it will change after launch.
Or if you only play one character again two races.

Probably because most Dunmer and Khajit select race first then build. Yes you have the odd Orc magesorc or Altmer stamblades but they are very rare. Argonians is in the same category but rarer and have more general stats.
Note that its probably some extra filtering here, casuals who struggle in delves do not count.
Healed most vet dlc on Khajiit and run into plenty of good Dunmer stamina builds, so many I thought they might be hybrid.

Leaves the odd duck or Bosmer who is now an PvP race. Just an causual zergling in PvP so no idea about meta?

I also think people are forgetting this is pre-PTS. There was a time when Khajiits passives were going to be max Stam and Stam recovery but got knocked out in testing because it was OP. I wonder if I can find that old patch note change.

FOUND IT!
Announcement
Reverse Edit

So everyone should chill on the forum and wait for testing.

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

At first glance, these changes are minor.

People are freaking out, but Redguards appear to still be Stam Kings and Altmer Mag.

Why is everyone panicking??

Overall its look good, i expected an morrowind level nerf feast. Instead it was mostly buffs.
Agonians got an nerf, that was pretty predictable, they are still excellent.
Altmer and especially Redguards should be still be praying.
Khajiit magic builds had it not been for the shield nerfs I would still be shotting 30 year old cognac since yesterday.
Other races, Orc is now an BIS stam DD while Nord look like an good tank. Breton is good,
Dunmer, the Dunmer magDK meta got destroyed. All other builds are buffed.
Note that the Dunmer nerf might be an unintended consequence as its just one build.

Dunmer and Khajiit can now be both magic and stamina builds and still close to meta level, that is priceless.
We have the two bis races for necromancer as we know it will change after launch.
Or if you only play one character again two races.

Probably because most Dunmer and Khajit select race first then build. Yes you have the odd Orc magesorc or Altmer stamblades but they are very rare. Argonians is in the same category but rarer and have more general stats.
Note that its probably some extra filtering here, casuals who struggle in delves do not count.
Healed most vet dlc on Khajiit and run into plenty of good Dunmer stamina builds, so many I thought they might be hybrid.

Leaves the odd duck or Bosmer who is now an PvP race. Just an causual zergling in PvP so no idea about meta?

I also think people are forgetting this is pre-PTS. There was a time when Khajiits passives were going to be max Stam and Stam recovery but got knocked out in testing because it was OP. I wonder if I can find that old patch note change.

FOUND IT!
Announcement
Reverse Edit

So everyone should chill on the forum and wait for testing.

Yes, left game before that because guild folded. this is an buff for ZoS

Still nobody complains about Khajiit outside Khajiit who ask for an small sustain buff.
Dunmer, yes we are racial enemies always hate it then AD go west the eastern front should have priority becuse you enslave our people.
Still in this trying times of utmost importance we have an common goal.
I propose the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. Dunmer will ask for an Khajit sustain buff. While Khajit will ask for an magic buff for Dunmer.
LOL non of us expect this to last it just double the Q&Q spamming..

Recremen wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Lore wise the removal of Argonian poison resist bothers me. We literally come from a land filled with disease AND poisons.

I don't remember Argonians ever being immune to poison in the lore. Indeed, there are several examples of them being affected by poison, including alcohol and native species. Both of these happened as recently as Murkmire. The only reason the "poison resistance" is considered "lore" is because a couple games out of the series had them with a 100% poison immunity. That's not a constant through the series and it's also a game mechanic which, apparently, is not super in line with the actual in-game world.

Considering they ingest poisons that kill every other race for recreational use. They also come from Black Marsh which is full of poisons, so yeah they would have a built up immunity to poisons. It's not just in Murkmire don't forgot about Daril in Eastmarch.

Yes and no.

On one hand I’m not happy with all the changes, but I know Gilliam is a man of logic and sense so I have hope that a logical argument will appeal to him.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453572/bosmer-racial-change-that-is-illogical-and-unnecessary#latest
On the other hand, I’m not changing my Bosmer for any reason under the sun. I didn’t choose them because of their racials, I chose them because of their lore and then adjusted my playstyle to their racials.

This thread should honestly just be closed by ZOS lol

Tigerseye wrote: »

Velvelya wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Racial abilities are inherently prejudiced.
.

Good lord.


I'm not sure how you can call it prejudiced that arogonians have a higher disease reistance than a Breton when they live in a nasty swamp and are lizards. Or that Kahjiit are catlike and more stealthy then a *** Nord.

Calm down dear, no need to swear in stars...

I'm not saying that your examples, specifically, are prejudiced.

I'm saying that locking races into certain roles/builds/classes is an inherently prejudiced approach.

As it suggests that everyone of the same race is made and thinks exactly the same way, everyone has the same physical attributes and IQ, everyone of that race has exactly the same abilities.

It assumes that none of those individuals are made differently and none can adapt to and/or excel at something their race/species hasn't, traditionally, been considered good at.

That's known as racial stereotyping.

Actually wasn't really swearing it said "Big A$$ Nord."

And i'm saying there is nothing prejudiced about races being inclined to certain traits because that plays into their genetics, their lore and their ingame home enviroments.

Also the idea that some marginal percentage of an increase of Mag regen, mag dmg, health regen--ect is what makes a player excel or fail is so lol worthy to me.

I've played a nord magtemplar since launch and the amount of complaints i have had is like 0.

Edit: spell correct.

Kel wrote: »

The forums: "Zos needs to balance thier game!"

Zos: Makes changes to balance the game

The forums: "Zos! Your balance changes ruined my playstyle!"

It's true what they say.... damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't.

So much this.

Tigerseye wrote: »

Calm down dear, no need to swear in stars...

I'm not saying that your examples, specifically, are prejudiced.

I'm saying that locking races into certain roles/builds/classes is an inherently prejudiced approach.

As it suggests that everyone of the same race is made and thinks exactly the same way, everyone has the same physical attributes and IQ, everyone of that race has exactly the same abilities.

It assumes that none of those individuals are made differently and none can adapt to and/or excel at something their race/species hasn't, traditionally, been considered good at.

That's known as racial stereotyping.

Not really, no. It doesn't say that everyone of the same race thinks exactly the same way, as you can choose any class and skillset for your character, which represents their conscious and free choice of profession.

Now, TES races are not at all equivalent to the human races from real life; in fact, they shouldn't be called "races" at all along with many other types of beings from fantasy settings. They are not members of the same species with minor hereditary variations of phenotype, they are godlike spirits corrupted by the mortal realm and the passage of time into pseudo-biological shapes that don't follow any law of evolution or heredity (which is especially evident with the argonians and the khajiit, however, the rest merely appear more "realistic" without actually being more realistic). It is not at all unreasonable or prejudiced to suggest that a healthy norn will always be significantly stronger than a bosmer when all other variables such as the age and the amount of exercise are equal, as their body mass and even their physiology will differ significantly in each and every case. This is not a degree of difference that you may observe between a black and a white person IRL, rather, this is a degree of difference that may be found between a puma and an ocelot.

Similarly, there is nothing prejudiced about different "races" having different levels of magical aptitude (which doesn't say anything about their intellectual abilities, btw). In fact, to deny the altmer magical superiority is to say that their degree of spiritual and familial closeness to the Ehlnofey ancestors doesn't actually matter and has no discernible effects, which ignores the established lore and also renders their entire civilization senselessly stubborn and idiotic. This may be the narrative you would prefer, but I enjoy the complexity that arises from the fact that they are not stupid to value their purity and isolationism; they are choosing to make a sacrifice to preserve their longevity and supernatural ability, and whether this sacrifice is ultimately beneficial or destructive is something everyone must decide for themselves.

eso_lags wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Wait -

For months people have been complaining and begging for ZoS to rework racial passives.

ZoS reworks racial passives and announces that they listened and made adjustments

Now people are complaining and begging Zos not to make the racial changes because "lore" and some BS called "Emotional attachment" to their characters...





And you guys wonder why they don't communicate with the community? THIS is why.

I mean the people complaining about lore are probably in the wrong game. But for me it comes down to zos being out of touch with the player base. We dont want nerfs anymore. So many people, like me, were excited but skeptical of these changes. Excited because we thought they would finally do something cool with the races, but skeptical because zos has a bad habit of ruining things. Which they did. By blanket nerfing percentages, screwing certain races over, and removing some things from certain races that were iconic (if not needed) when paired with certain classes.

They did not listen to us. People are sick of nerfs. I am sick of nerfs. I did not want more nerfs while still in nerfmire. And to make matters worse they want so many of us who have multiple characters, that will now have pretty useless races, to either pay up or deal with it. Well thats awesome from a competitive standpoint. Great.

I have no issue giving zos credit when they deserve it. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt with most things. But this situation is pretty bad. At least if i could change my characters races, without paying hundreds of dollars, id feel better about the nerfs. But as its stands the nerfs will be twice as bad because im stuck with a bad race for what i am doing.

I'm pretty sure that not only does the 'we' of the playerbase have no idea what it wants, it also has no idea how to go about it nor could they think up something even remotely balanced.

People often talk like 'the playerbase' is a single entity that is consistent in its desires and totally united on all fronts. That is as far from reality as you an possibly get. They DO listen to suggestions - perhaps, just, not your suggestions specifically. I see several (many, even) changes in the racial changes that near exactly match things I've requested.

"Sick of nerfs" "Sick of powercreep" -> "SIck of <two contradictory things>"

Insofar as I can see, all the races that did <x> thing still have a bonus towards that thing. It's just a little more flexible now.

I have pretty much all the meta class/race combos and am still amazed at the unholy screeching going on.