But the whole point of the racial passives change, was to achieve the OP's goal. Now if he wants a bosmer battle mage, he gets a bit of extra stam and maybe he doesn't need tei-stat food. It still allows min-maxing and makes the drawbacks of using a stam race for magicka toon significantly lower. I really think ZOS tried hard to accomodate their entire player base with these changes.

LaveniaRose wrote: »

But the whole point of the racial passives change, was to achieve the OP's goal. Now if he wants a bosmer battle mage, he gets a bit of extra stam and maybe he doesn't need tei-stat food. It still allows min-maxing and makes the drawbacks of using a stam race for magicka toon significantly lower. I really think ZOS tried hard to accomodate their entire player base with these changes.

Yes and they did it with Khajiit and Dunmer even if dunmer took an nerf and some Khajiit builds took an small nerf.

It will change the meta, think altmer pet sorc with necro and other min / max builds will come out weaker.
An Altmer PvP magblade in heavy armor is probably buffed significantly.
Note this might be very relevant once phase one of screaming stop. Unintended consequences and ZoS is a bit like the moon and craters.

On the other hand I get an feeling that ZoS looked at build, saw it was lots of Khajit magic builds and Dunmer stamina ones so they adjusted the racials. Think most Khajiit and Dunmer selected race first.

Grabs tail. i like the idea to move to fixed values over +%. Old idea of mine but less of an nerf than I expected, this is an buff in group content

I think ZOS assumed that most people either min-max OR role play.

If you min-max, you have to be prepared to follow the meta whereever it goes.

If you role play, you have to be prepared for the meta to leave you behind eventually.

ZOS definitely doesn't cater to the people who want to have their cake and eat it too - being both attached to their character/class/race and remaining meta. We already saw that with Murkmire, and Morrowind before that.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think ZOS assumed that most people either min-max OR role play.

If you min-max, you have to be prepared to follow the meta whereever it goes.

If you role play, you have to be prepared for the meta to leave you behind eventually.

ZOS definitely doesn't cater to the people who want to have their cake and eat it too - being both attached to their character/class/race and remaining meta. We already saw that with Murkmire, and Morrowind before that.

That's fine unless you're trying to sell the proverbial cake.

Tigerseye wrote: »

Racial abilities are inherently prejudiced.

There, I said it.

Obviously, we all know that certain races, in real life, tend (on average) to be slightly more adept than others, in certain specific ways.

It would be silly to deny it.

However, that is just a tendency, it is not a hard and fast rule.

Many individuals go against those stereotypes.

Making it so that you can only play a certain race on the erroneous assumption that your individual character must, automatically, adhere to these set, racial stereotypes, is not only wrong, but it is also limiting and boring.

Not least, because it forces people to choose the same races, over and over, to play certain classes and builds; or know that they will be left underperforming (and that other players will know that they are), if they deviate from that.

It also runs counter to various storylines, in the game, that suggest that individuals of certain races can and should (if they want to and are able) break free from their racial (or species) stereotypes.

For example, the storyline of the blacksmithing hireling, Urbek.

Racial abilities are a part of the TES Lore.

We see plenty of examples where individuals do not follow the stereotypes of their races.

Nevertheless, Shalidor, an amazing 1st era mage and scholar, founding the College of Winterhold and creating Shalidor's Maze at Labyrinthian, was still a Nord and shared in the racial passives of other Nords.

Velvelya wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Racial abilities are inherently prejudiced.
.

Good lord.


I'm not sure how you can call it prejudiced that arogonians have a higher disease reistance than a Breton when they live in a nasty swamp and are lizards. Or that Kahjiit are catlike and more stealthy then a *** Nord.

See, the prejudice comes in when you take that Khajiit are catlike and more stealthy than a Nord and come up with:

its a stereotype to assume they're all skooma addicts and thieves.

Its not prejudiced to say "Well based on their genetics they are probably good at being sneaky." it has everything to do with their physiology. They see in the dark, the have better hearing than humans, and they most likely have the balance and fluidity of...cats.


Being sneaky doesn't equal being a thief.

"What makes a racial choice interesting, more engaging, more immersive is indeed the lore - lore as history, not destiny: lore as culture. When we create a character we choose an alternate culture that stimulates our imagination. And this is what fantasy roleplaying games are meant to do."

This is completely subjective. You're trying to speak on behalf of the entire community with an extremely biased statement based entirely on your own personal opinion and what YOU want from the game.

Personally I think the new changes are great, it's really about time that they started making the racial passives more interesting and also more equal. Honestly what is the point in having nine races when about half of them are simply worse than their counterparts, to the extreme of the current status of Nord, being a completely useless halfway between tank and stam dd that has absolutely no race defining ability whatsoever. Well the newly announced patch at least gives nords something, a nice passive and a reason to pick them from a build perspective.


Not everyone is a roleplayer, lots of players, myself included, want good, balanced pvp and well thought out endgame content, with a healthy variety of build options for all playstyles. This is not what we were getting before, but the newly announced changes both to races and in other areas are a massive step in the right direction that somewhat restored my faith in ZOS

The way I see it, ESO is absolutely full of lore and story that i'm constantly seeing when I play even though I don't care too much for it anymore because I played the game for so long, but it's certainly there. I don't think that making some much needed balance changes mess with that very much at all, however in my opinion the endgame pve and pvp crowds were being completely neglected and I've been crying out for changes like this for well over a year.

Tasear wrote: »

Except dummer vs altmer I think racial offer us diversity without limitating as much. We have new passives with races to engage in combat. What makes you feel different?

Agreed, but i concur with the OP as I'm dunmer!

Koronach wrote: »

Lore wise the removal of Argonian poison resist bothers me. We literally come from a land filled with disease AND poisons.

If Argonians have such great resistance why did I have to keep finding copper-tongued skinks for Jee-Lar day after day?