Can we stop with all the self important, entitled, whining already?

Chirru · January 2019

PathwayM wrote: »

Racial changes have been announced for less than a day and half of the posts on the forum are from what I assume are adults complaining about how they now are being forced to spend money to update their characters. Guess what, you aren't being forced, you have a licence to play the game, you do not own "your" account or the characters within it. It is a kind and generous gesture that Zos is giving anyone any race change tokens at all.

None of these changes have gone live, or even been tested yet. If you are upset by the upcoming racial changes, I implore you to go on the PTS, test them, and then provide feedback, otherwise you have no grounds to complain and should remain silent.

Every Boiler needs a Pressure Release Valve.

The Forums are ESO's Valve.

So if anyone is upset...go for it!

You will feel much better.

Just be aware to use courteous language.

And continue to play the game... having let off some steam.

Good luck to us all.

Vapirko · January 2019

I’m usually a part of the vocal crowd but I gotta agree with you on this one. They’ve delivered us these prior to PTS which is a nice step in the right direction and as you say, there’s time. And even if all these changes do go live they’re really not the end of the world. Did people just honestly expect their favorite races to get a buff in exactly the way they wanted?

ZonasArch · January 2019

Chirru wrote: »

PathwayM wrote: »

Racial changes have been announced for less than a day and half of the posts on the forum are from what I assume are adults complaining about how they now are being forced to spend money to update their characters. Guess what, you aren't being forced, you have a licence to play the game, you do not own "your" account or the characters within it. It is a kind and generous gesture that Zos is giving anyone any race change tokens at all.

None of these changes have gone live, or even been tested yet. If you are upset by the upcoming racial changes, I implore you to go on the PTS, test them, and then provide feedback, otherwise you have no grounds to complain and should remain silent.

Every Boiler needs a Pressure Release Valve.

The Forums are ESO's Valve.

So if anyone is upset...go for it!

You will feel much better.

Just be aware to use courteous language.

And continue to play the game... having let off some steam.

Good luck to us all.

I like how you called the forums a Valve, considering that from all my years in ESO, steam is the only thing that ever got me angry and rage-quitty. Not without its irony 😋 once I escaped Valve, I didn't need a escape Valve anymore.

ErMurazor · January 2019

Go cry at your parents instead so they give you money to buy crowns.

AlienatedGoat · January 2019

PathwayM wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

PathwayM wrote: »

Racial changes have been announced for less than a day and half of the posts on the forum are from what I assume are adults complaining about how they now are being forced to spend money to update their characters. Guess what, you aren't being forced, you have a licence to play the game, you do not own "your" account or the characters within it. It is a kind and generous gesture that Zos is giving anyone any race change tokens at all.

None of these changes have gone live, or even been tested yet. If you are upset by the upcoming racial changes, I implore you to go on the PTS, test them, and then provide feedback, otherwise you have no grounds to complain and should remain silent.

Don't need to test them to know that they are making my characters less playable and less enjoyable than they are now.

Also, don't need to test to know that it's going to cost hundreds to change race (and also change to other lore-friendly names that fit that race).

Are you guys shilling on purpose? Are you really that anti-consumer?

It's not about being anti-consumer. It's about constantly seeing a bunch of adults whining about not getting an entire bag of cookies when they are offered one.

Except that the behavior that ZOS exhibits is oftentimes anti-consumer.

Implementing game-wide changes that impact each and every character and then forcing players to choose only one character to change is anti-consumer behavior, the sole purpose of which is to drive players to the crown store to buy tokens.

If ZOS really cared about its customers, we would be given a chance to change each character without having to shell out more money to do so. Especially since those of us with the most characters are oftentimes the players who have paid the most already.

There isn't any point that can be made that would refute that truth.

Moonsorrow · January 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I understand the frustration. But whole that stuff - forums, the preliminary announcements of the patch notes, the PTS - it all exists to provide the company with the feedback. Yes, sometimes feedback is emotional, but don't ask people to keep quiet, because patch notes are out, and it is the time when we all discuss and provide that feedback.

And yes, it may seem that people feel self-entitled when they ask for more tokens, but got to understand them. You may not be the one to have the min-max chase as the major source of enjoyment from the game, but others may be, and they just got their target yanked from them - so they have to pay real money to keep enjoying things. If, say, you're a furnishing aficionado, imagine that your freshly bought luxurious house have been made into a straw hut with the new update, and the neighboring straw hut - became a villa. Same thing, really. I like myself being khajiit too much for meta-chasing, but I'm not blaming people for being upset, they have their ground yanked from under their feet. So try to be empathic and don't dismiss others' sources of fun from the game for a moment.

Well said.

Because would think people be empathic on these kind of things, it is not just the "meta-chasers" that are sad about loosing some edge on some races, but also the fun builds, more niche setups, characters that made for some fun idea and used the races passives, like % modifier on something and play with their own unique playstyle.

Many seem to forget no-cp also, where the cp giving passively the max stat boost does not exist. So some builds are taking a big hit. It is not away from them, so what is "selfish" about being sad when generally there is now less options, less freedom? I thought the race changes was to make more of it instead of just nerfs here and there and still certain classes are the best selection?

Personally i think that would have been enough to slightly adjust couple things that made some clearly above every other race or be the "no one picks this race" extremes. Or have morphs for passives for both magicka and stamina and adjust values accordingly. That would have been the real freedom.

So of course people are emotional about these changes. It is sad, because just few days ago all were hyped about the coming year with all the new cool and fun stuff, and now its sadness and fighting on lost things and feeling forced to switch races to play atleast close to what used to like.

All are ready (or most) to take hits on class abilities, but race is part of your identity on the characters, been playing for years possibly and so the hits on them feel big and not justified, especially when the changes like this do not deliver the freedom that was the goal.

All who know me, know i dont easily get sad about things, but love the game and most often some even say i am some ZOS whiteknight defender, but this time i feel the race changes could have done much better, so people would feel the same hype still than after the big year announcement, now many just feel they are losing on fun and not getting back something in return that would make them be happily playing. The uproar about it tells it all. It does not happen without reason. It is not just selfish crying.

Some say this is adjusting power creep. It would have been done easier by making the champion points system reworked completely. Not with almost random adjustments to races that in the end changed nothing to what was the goal, feel like it was work done for nothing and without a clear vision on what wanted to achieve with it, again.

Would give more detailed thoughts about it, but long enough wall of text already and i feel like there are only a handful of people at forums with emphatic logics and understanding that simple solutions that affect everyone are better than having people feel sad about things individually and fighting against other fellow players for crumbs and laughing when someone else gets nerfed as long as it is not them.

Hope everyone has a good weekend though.

Grimm13 · January 2019

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Yeah I've been saying people will quit over these changes and *I* as well. That's not my way or the high way, that's screw your dictatorial approach to transfix my character that I've played a certain way for years and now you're saying do it this way or "screw you" <- by the game company themselves. So I will take them up on that offer if they push those changes through.

I'm not advocating the change. THEY ARE. My point is that I am a reactionary player to what they are proposing in a dictatorial manner (meaning I have no choice but to accept it as its pushed down our throat). Then I'd say screw you and leave.

Remember its not me saying I want racial passives to be changed FROM WHAT IT IS CURRENTLY to this whole new system.

That's not saying take my way or the highway since I'm not the one in power over this game, THEY ARE.

Do you understand the difference?

You seem to be under the mistaken disillusion that MMO's are a democratic designed game. They are all dictatorial in how they are designed and people are free to agree by paying for the product or not. Each company is trying to please the widest demographics of players to have the most consumers, some will not be pleased.

As you said you are not the one in power over this game, they are. If you want your point to be made and heard then make it in a constructive manner that they may take you into account. If you don't then you are probably going to be ignored and unhappy. This is the point the OP was trying to make.

Tigerseye · January 2019

I think most people here have realised that they don't really have to go on the PTR to know that racials are still going to be totally unbalanced, after the changes.

You can just look at the descriptions to see they will still be, because it's just not a like-for-like system at all (and never has been).

The sad truth is that people should be complaining about racial imbalance all the time.

But, instead, most just suck it up, most of the time, pick the race/class/build combo they are told is best, don't care too much about (or laugh at) other people who haven't done that and only express their concerns about imbalance when it looks like that preferred race, they were told to pick, will stop being OP.

Perhaps if people didn't do that, perhaps if they stepped out of their bubbles and complained about unfairness, whenever and wherever it occurs, not just when it directly affects them, things wouldn't be like this?

...and no, I guess I'm not only talking about games, here.

Streega · January 2019

I agree with @OP, but not with the "you don't own a sh*t" part (besides, it's not entirely correct, even if the TOS seem to imply that). Feedback from players is of course very important, but y'all complainers sound like toddlers throwing temper tantrum in a toy store.
First, you forget that all those changes are supposed to improve the game. Whether they do or not, that's another topic. However I'm 99% sure that the developer team isn't sitting there giggling and thinking how they can make us miserable - no, they love the game and want to make it better (at least I hope so), it's their creation after all. Besides, little stirrup here and there is good for the game, it keeps it fresh.
Now, about the Race Change tokens, I have mixed feeling about this. Offering one free token is OK by me, the changes are not so drastic they require your whole pack to revamp. If you are a min-maxer and have 15 characters, well, that is your choice, ZOS didn't force you to do that. 2 cars is more than enough for average family, if you decide to own 10 Lambos you better don't go and whine to your grandma that uh-oh, it's so expensive.
On the other side, the tokens are insanely overpriced. Here's the part where the big, fat, evil financial manager emerges from the shadows. They could give us 50% discount on the Race AND Name Change token along the whatever is the discount on the Race token - that would be a smart marketing move, and would probably prevent at least some of the negative backlash. But they wont. Why? I'll tell you why, I've been saying this over and over since the ESO launched: it's your fault all the Crown Store items are so expensive, you buy them! If you decided to go full-whale and buy every overpriced crap ZOS throws at you, don't you dare to whine now, go and get your damn tokens. I prefer to vote with my wallet and re-roll some of my characters if I decide to change their race - for free, and just accept the fact that one of my mains will probably retire now and serve purely as a crafter and proud achievements holder. Until the next big change comes and he'll be "meta" again, maybe?
The point is, don't put developers and greedy management in the same pot. The first bunch wants to offer us a good game and listens to us (even if the results are not what you expected), so give them some appreciation. The latter just wants to milk us and doesn't give a single fork what you think, as long you are a good sheep and give them those monies.
That's all - be excellent to each other, folks.

Girl_Number8 · January 2019

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

PathwayM wrote: »

Racial changes have been announced for less than a day and half of the posts on the forum are from what I assume are adults complaining about how they now are being forced to spend money to update their characters. Guess what, you aren't being forced, you have a licence to play the game, you do not own "your" account or the characters within it. It is a kind and generous gesture that Zos is giving anyone any race change tokens at all.

None of these changes have gone live, or even been tested yet. If you are upset by the upcoming racial changes, I implore you to go on the PTS, test them, and then provide feedback, otherwise you have no grounds to complain and should remain silent.

Don't need to test them to know that they are making my characters less playable and less enjoyable than they are now.

Also, don't need to test to know that it's going to cost hundreds to change race (and also change to other lore-friendly names that fit that race).

Are you guys shilling on purpose? Are you really that anti-consumer?

I agree with this goat and not the other one. This was a greedy money grab, just look at when the race change tokens went on sale, Cx.

RavenSworn · January 2019

God damn it, I finish both my popcorn AND my nuts.

Potato chips pls, thank you.

gepe87 · January 2019

Some things we know even without testing.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 2019

"self-entitlement"
Opinion discarded. Shame on you for telling people how to feel. Especially on a subject that is going to cost the hardcore audience for this game money. On top of loot boxes with undisclosed odds, $100+ virtual houses, an "optional subscription" that isn't so optional and quarterly paid retail/DLC content

I'll take a forum full of complaints over people like you complaining about people's (legitimate) complaints.

RavenSworn · January 2019

gepe87 wrote: »

Some things we know even without testing.

Yeap. Barely 300 years ago, everyone thought the earth was flat. Without testing, we wouldn't have more knowledge about this earth.

Same thing. Test it first. Then if you feel that you need to vent, go right ahead. But don't just mini test. Test the changes on every race. Test it on every class / race combinations. Test it with on every class / race / weapon combinations. With gear. With buffs. With a group. Solo. Trial based group.

Then if you feel that its still ***, go ahead and vent. But if you vent based on just writing of a forum post, with the changes not even on pts yet, without all these testing, then YES. YOU ARE SELF ENTITLED.

geonsocal · January 2019

Can we stop with all the self important, entitled, whining already?

jcm2606 · January 2019

This whole thread is one big Insightful.

Titansteele · January 2019

Everytime some snowflake on the forums says "This will end the game, everyone will leave" it never happens.

Why?

Your self assured nonsense is misguided at best, people adapt. Consider it a life lesson, if you are unable to adapt to situations and learn from them then you are in for a bumpy ride and I hope you have good medical coverage as you are going to need it.

Finviuswe · January 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

PathwayM wrote: »

Racial changes have been announced for less than a day and half of the posts on the forum are from what I assume are adults complaining about how they now are being forced to spend money to update their characters. Guess what, you aren't being forced, you have a licence to play the game, you do not own "your" account or the characters within it. It is a kind and generous gesture that Zos is giving anyone any race change tokens at all.

None of these changes have gone live, or even been tested yet. If you are upset by the upcoming racial changes, I implore you to go on the PTS, test them, and then provide feedback, otherwise you have no grounds to complain and should remain silent.

Don't need to test them to know that they are making my characters less playable and less enjoyable than they are now.

Also, don't need to test to know that it's going to cost hundreds to change race (and also change to other lore-friendly names that fit that race).

Are you guys shilling on purpose? Are you really that anti-consumer?

I agree with this goat and not the other one. This was a greedy money grab, just look at when the race change tokens went on sale, Cx.

agreed we had a big problem lol

Yuffie91 · January 2019

So you made a thread complaining about people complaining?

Tigerseye · January 2019

RavenSworn wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Some things we know even without testing.

Yeap. Barely 300 years ago, everyone thought the earth was flat. Without testing, we wouldn't have more knowledge about this earth.

Same thing. Test it first. Then if you feel that you need to vent, go right ahead. But don't just mini test. Test the changes on every race. Test it on every class / race combinations. Test it with on every class / race / weapon combinations. With gear. With buffs. With a group. Solo. Trial based group.

Then if you feel that its still ***, go ahead and vent. But if you vent based on just writing of a forum post, with the changes not even on pts yet, without all these testing, then YES. YOU ARE SELF ENTITLED.

But, maths is maths.

Or, math is math, if you're in the US.

I assume people have number crunched?

Not everyone will have, obviously, but the people who do that?

Also, in the case of races that just don't have certain advantages that other races do (like boosts to damage, for example), surely it is obvious that they will be at a disadvantage, in that way, at least?

Sure, people can test, but this isn't going to be like testing the slight difference between two very similar things, is it?

Tommy_The_Gun · January 2019

People are angry simply becaouse they are sick of nerfs. Every update ZOS nerfs something. Sure, it might be small and insignificant, but 100 small nerfs = one BIG one. MMMOS are all about character progresion. With all those things being constantly nerfed we, players effectively lose our progression instead of gaining it. This is what is it all about. Oh and one more thing. There is a HUGE, HUGE differance between whining and construvtive feedback & criticism.

Eliahnus · January 2019

PathwayM wrote: »

Racial changes have been announced for less than a day and half of the posts on the forum are from what I assume are adults complaining about how they now are being forced to spend money to update their characters. Guess what, you aren't being forced, you have a licence to play the game, you do not own "your" account or the characters within it. It is a kind and generous gesture that Zos is giving anyone any race change tokens at all.

None of these changes have gone live, or even been tested yet. If you are upset by the upcoming racial changes, I implore you to go on the PTS, test them, and then provide feedback, otherwise you have no grounds to complain and should remain silent.

Who do you think you are ??? Only your opinion counts ???

xMovingTarget · January 2019

"Stop whining"

So if you go to a restaurant, and there is a turd swimming in your soup, you eat it right?

I wouldnt. That is pretty much what I feel about these changes. Especially Dunmer

Lab3360 · January 2019

PathwayM wrote: »

Racial changes have been announced for less than a day and half of the posts on the forum are from what I assume are adults complaining about how they now are being forced to spend money to update their characters. Guess what, you aren't being forced, you have a licence to play the game, you do not own "your" account or the characters within it. It is a kind and generous gesture that Zos is giving anyone any race change tokens at all.

None of these changes have gone live, or even been tested yet. If you are upset by the upcoming racial changes, I implore you to go on the PTS, test them, and then provide feedback, otherwise you have no grounds to complain and should remain silent.

The forums are designed so people/consumers can give feedback.
Zos does this so they can get a feel of the people who support them and make it possible for Zos to stay in business.

I have not seen anywhere in the forums where anyone has said The end of the world is near" or "Doomsday." These are people who simply want to express feedback in a forum designed to for feedback by Zos.

These are paying constumers who most are adults and have a spent money and have staked interest in the game. They dont have to own it to provide feeback and input. Without the consumer base there would be no Zos and there would be no ESO.

Furthermore feedback should be encouraged. There have been several things that didnt make the cut on pts due to feedback. The latest proposal which was nixed from planned release was "Shield Cast Times." It took forum and tester feedback to eliminate such a bad idea.

As far as remaining silent, well, this is a forum. They have just as much of a right to speak as you do. So I dont understand why you would want to encroach upon someones "Right to Free Speech" on a forum designed exactly for Speech or Communication, considering you enjoy the very same right when you created the thread.

MajBludd · January 2019

It's only a game. It's not like your family was killed. Either quit, like some of you are saying, or deal with it.

This is not real life, no need to get bent out of shape over a game that you probably won't care about in a few years.

Blackpine · January 2019

I believe the proper term for OP's "self important, entitled, whining" is "paying customer feedback". So OP asks us to stop providing customer feedback and what?
Is he naive enough to think that unsatisfied customer will continue to pay? I am sure that lack of feedback will not benefit devs in the long run, but that's just opinion. Who I am to judge what others think?

Aurielle · January 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

I’m usually a part of the vocal crowd but I gotta agree with you on this one. They’ve delivered us these prior to PTS which is a nice step in the right direction and as you say, there’s time. And even if all these changes do go live they’re really not the end of the world. Did people just honestly expect their favorite races to get a buff in exactly the way they wanted?

Didn’t expect buffs, but didn’t expect nerfs to classes that weren’t overperforming, either. RIP magicka Dunmer.

Blackleopardex · January 2019

It's like reviewing a movie you did not watch

Before it's final cut

Mr_Walker · January 2019

How dare you sir I'm entitled to my whining, and I am VERY important!

AlboMalefica · January 2019

I’m mostly ok with these changes, I sort of understand the approach they wish to take. Obviously these need testing to see if they work as good live as they seem to do on paper.
But as a community, we do have the right to express our dissatisfaction or concerns to the devs but as adults we should articulate our opinions in a civilised manner 😊