R.I.P Khajiit Stam builds

susmitds · January 2019

Khajiit

Increases Experience gain in Medium Armor Skill Line by 15%, 5% bonus change to successfully pickpocket → No changes
Nimble: 20% Health Recovery and 10% Stamina Recovery → Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.
Stealthy: Reduce detection radius by 3m and Increase damage from Stealth by 10% → Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
Carnage: Increase Weapon Critical Chance by 8% → Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.

Seriously, what? Khajiits are suddenly supposed to be a hybrid race? This is a pretty massive nerf to Khajiit sustain in both PvE and PvP. Redguard, Bosmer, even orc sustain basically got a buff. If this goes lives, Khajiit would go pretty much behind every other "stamina" race. The Robustness trait is just the Invigorating trait glorified and we know how useful it is. It needs a pretty significant buff to compete with the other sustain passives.

Orcs, Dunmer, Redguard, Bosmer, Imperials maybe even Nords make better stam DPS races now. Also, if being a hybrid race is supposed to be the Khajiit's forte, dunmer will now do it much better.

max_only · January 2019

Where did you find this?

kirgeo · January 2019

Robustness and Stealth damage loss seems a bit strange with the breed of Khajiit that we are supposed to be.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

Thevampirenight · January 2019

kirgeo wrote: »

Robustness and Stealth damage loss seems a bit strange with the breed of Khajiit that we are supposed to be.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

You beat me to linking it, but that is where it is from. They released the upcoming racial balance changes.

JobooAGS · January 2019

Kitty mages are alot better now

susmitds · January 2019

JobooAGS wrote: »

Kitty mages are alot better now

They are. But they are no where close to being the best. And it comes at the cost of khajiit stam builds being the last of the pack of stamina races. With Dunmer, Orc Weapon damage buff, the Crit bonus buff is easily outclassed. Literally khajiit is a true hybrid race now with equally skill for both Magicka and Stamina.

JobooAGS · January 2019

susmitds wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Kitty mages are alot better now

They are. But they are no where close to being the best. And it comes at the cost of khajiit stam builds being the last of the pack of stamina races. With Dunmer, Orc Weapon damage buff, the Crit bonus buff is easily outclassed. Literally khajiit is a true hybrid race now with equally skill for both Magicka and Stamina.

Dunmer is in a similar spot for hybrids. They were nerfed alot for magicka and for stamina they got a small buff. With their passives they have the equlivalent of 377 weapon and spell damage. Khajiit has 8% crit and 71 equlivalent weapon and spell damage. Whether 8% crit and 75 regen or 306 weapon damage is better depends on builds

jircris11 · January 2019

Wish people would just stop caring about min/max and play what they love, it would make this game so much better.

Turelus · January 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Wish people would just stop caring about min/max and play what they love, it would make this game so much better.

It'll never happen in games because people enjoy min/max. I would just settle with people not throwing temper tantrums like toddlers every time something changes.

What we need is more min/max players who understand that play style comes with the caveat that things are going to change and go against you sometimes, so you need to change to keep up.

ATomiX96 · January 2019

Robustness and Lunar Blessing passives have to be a Bad joke if you compare it to other upcoming racial passives.
If they double the values of both of them I would consider keeping my khajiit.

Slight update: I heared from some relatively reliable sources that khajiit might be one of the top dog races for magicka dps in the upcomming patch due to the spell critical as long as sustain isnt an issue.

Bigevilpeter · January 2019

Really are you just whining for the sake of it? Khajits are still as strong possible even better now as stam DD, but also they can be magicka DD so it adds more diversity, they didnt take away from them anything they gave them more max stats and recovery

Ahzek · January 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Wish people would just stop caring about min/max and play what they love, it would make this game so much better.

I play what i love, but I would like what i love to be at least somewhat competetive.
As it is now Khajiit gets easily outclassed as pure magicka race or pure stamina races by the respective streamlined races, while dunmer outperform for hybrid setups.

Qbiken · January 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Wish people would just stop caring about min/max and play what they love, it would make this game so much better.

Translation:
"I wish there wasn't an endgame meta or skill curve, why can't we all just roleplay in peace"

zaria · January 2019

the regen is an joke. else its decent.

IlCanis_LupuslI · January 2019

I'm loving it, more Max Stam effectively - 100 isch stamina recovery meh nothing to worry about.

NoTimeToWait · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Really are you just whining for the sake of it? Khajits are still as strong possible even better now as stam DD, but also they can be magicka DD so it adds more diversity, they didnt take away from them anything they gave them more max stats and recovery

Oh, thanks VERY MUCH. Now my khajiit warden can be a complete successful MEDIOCRITY, with these magicka updates.

Now, probably need to wear both Hundings Rage and Julianos, to be in line with these changes

Minnesinger · January 2019

I am gonna make a Khajiit bomber. Good changes.

Edziu · January 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Wish people would just stop caring about min/max and play what they love, it would make this game so much better.

and thats I think a buff for me...as only nerf I see for stam it is lost of pure stam reg but then if I wanted to go for mag build I finally have even good bonuses instead of big nothing + if going on pvp then on stam build additional even significant mag regen and max magica is a bit of help for utility and vive-versa if going on mag build - a bit more stam management for break free etc as for max stam in it

Jhalin · January 2019

I was hoping Khajiit were going to get some love since they’ve fallen behind redguard for a long time and they’re getting a devoted dlc, but instead redguard got buffed and Khajiit got nerfed

What’s the incentive to roll a Khajiit now?

Bigevilpeter · January 2019

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Really are you just whining for the sake of it? Khajits are still as strong possible even better now as stam DD, but also they can be magicka DD so it adds more diversity, they didnt take away from them anything they gave them more max stats and recovery

Oh, thanks VERY MUCH. Now my khajiit warden can be a complete successful MEDIOCRITY, with these magicka updates.

Now, probably need to wear both Hundings Rage and Julianos, to be in line with these changes

Lol you are really not getting this, Khajihts didnt lose any numbers in stamina but got some buffs in Magicka, so it just allowed you to use julianos as well and go full magicka if you want, but your stamina damage and stats remain the same

NoTimeToWait · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Lol you are really not getting this, Khajihts didnt lose any numbers in stamina but got some buffs in Magicka, so it just allowed you to use julianos as well and go full magicka if you want, but your stamina damage and stats remain the same

From my point of view, khajiits lost the stamina value compared to other stamina races.

But actually, now that I consider it, I am okay with these changes. Lately I mostly stayed away from competitive parts of the game, so the fact that Khajiits keep their stealth and pickpocketing buffs is what makes it okay with me. I'll just keep gardening and solo questing.

Azyle1 · January 2019

I felt like after reading this.. Khajiit for stamina builds were in a pretty good spot.

Edziu · January 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Really are you just whining for the sake of it? Khajits are still as strong possible even better now as stam DD, but also they can be magicka DD so it adds more diversity, they didnt take away from them anything they gave them more max stats and recovery

Oh, thanks VERY MUCH. Now my khajiit warden can be a complete successful MEDIOCRITY, with these magicka updates.

Now, probably need to wear both Hundings Rage and Julianos, to be in line with these changes

Lol you are really not getting this, Khajihts didnt lose any numbers in stamina but got some buffs in Magicka, so it just allowed you to use julianos as well and go full magicka if you want, but your stamina damage and stats remain the same

yep as I wrote only visible nerf stam khajiit I think would be stam regen if we go for pvp

on pvp tbh we dont invest for regen yes? so 10% stam reg or flat 75 wont be much difference in pve dps at all, only visible difference would be on pvp where we would want to go for atleast 1750+ stam regen where 10% stam reg would be ofc better than flat 75 bonus

whiel with all of it khajiit got very nice possibility to be done for magica build finally

and these maybe small max stats even for pve would be significiant helpfull even if we will not make use of all of them (mostly only on stam build we will have no use of max magica while on mag build we will have use of every stat at all)

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@susmitds , actually, I've put some numbers into the racials thread (and was corrected afterwards), and it seems that flat 75 regen is a buff to sustain as long as build stays under ~1.27k base regen (before percentage buffs), which would mean that most imaginable PvE khajiit stamina builds just got a slight sustain improvement.

Now I would agree that on overall, changes are underwhelming, more so that meta didn't change - redguard got buffed even more.

Azyle1 · January 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@susmitds , actually, I've put some numbers into the racials thread (and was corrected afterwards), and it seems that flat 75 regen is a buff to sustain as long as build stays under ~1.27k base regen (before percentage buffs), which would mean that most imaginable PvE khajiit stamina builds just got a slight sustain improvement.

Now I would agree that on overall, changes are underwhelming, more so that meta didn't change - redguard got buffed even more.

I feel like redgaurd was kind of nerfed. 8% decrease of costs only counts for things like endless hail, rending slashes and poison injection, no?

Moonsorrow · January 2019

@Turelus

You mean by "change to keep up" as in buy Race change tokens to keep up when old one was nerfed hard?

..but was it not this games business model to be selling cosmetics.. and not things that have impact on their game results like dps amount? Since this does that, racial passives changed.. and if want to have atleast close to the stats/sustain/whatever what you had, pay up?

Whats next? Say you enjoy playing a nightblade, ZOS makes changes and tells you your nightblade is now a sorc, but.. if you will pay for a Class change token you can class change it back to nightblade. Sounds legit.

(This example is not that far fetched, look what happens to bosmer and khajiit right now on racials. You are smart, i do not think i need to explain that more.)

And yes, i know one can just delete character and make new one, it costs nothing. But with all the QoL improvements.. what kind of improvement is this?

Now one literally has to "pay to win", pay for race change token - to have better performance than your nerfed race does after the changes. In other games/forums, they just call things like this as a P2W change just to milk cash.

Nice to know this is the "change to keep up" logic these days.

edit: to clarify, for pvp builds variety with higher extremes many changes seem just like big nerfs, sadly. So feeling is a bit same like when Morrowind sustain changes happened, it reduced the amount of fun instead of added "choices", not know many who enjoyed them. But oh well, this is what we have to live with now.

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@Azyle1 , the only nerf to redguard is the decrease of max stamina (which would result in, probably, about 100 effective weapon damage). Sustain-wise, redguard got a buff. See:

Removal of 9% recovery: at 833 base regen (Dubious, no set bonuses) that would be a loss of 75 regen.
Adrenaline Rush changed from 792 to 950 stamina per 5 seconds - gain of 63 regen.
8% cost decrease for Hail, Slashes and Injection, assuming 12-second rotation (and with tooltips from the web, don't have the game in front of me now) - gain of 81 regen.

Net gain of about 70 regen, nothing special, but a little buff.

Azyle1 · January 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Azyle1 , the only nerf to redguard is the decrease of max stamina (which would result in, probably, about 100 effective weapon damage). Sustain-wise, redguard got a buff. See:
Removal of 9% recovery: at 833 base regen (Dubious, no set bonuses) that would be a loss of 75 regen.

Adrenaline Rush changed from 792 to 950 stamina per 5 seconds - gain of 63 regen.

8% cost decrease for Hail, Slashes and Injection, assuming 12-second rotation (and with tooltips from the web, don't have the game in front of me now) - gain of 81 regen.

Net gain of about 70 regen, nothing special, but a little buff.

@John_Falstaff

Ok - fair enough. So it's just a little different then.

So Redgaurd and Khajiit are both still fine for stamina then.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

susmitds wrote: »

Khajiit
Increases Experience gain in Medium Armor Skill Line by 15%, 5% bonus change to successfully pickpocket → No changes

Nimble: 20% Health Recovery and 10% Stamina Recovery → Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.

Stealthy: Reduce detection radius by 3m and Increase damage from Stealth by 10% → Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.

Carnage: Increase Weapon Critical Chance by 8% → Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.

Seriously, what? Khajiits are suddenly supposed to be a hybrid race? This is a pretty massive nerf to Khajiit sustain in both PvE and PvP. Redguard, Bosmer, even orc sustain basically got a buff. If this goes lives, Khajiit would go pretty much behind every other "stamina" race. The Robustness trait is just the Invigorating trait glorified and we know how useful it is. It needs a pretty significant buff to compete with the other sustain passives.

Orcs, Dunmer, Redguard, Bosmer, Imperials maybe even Nords make better stam DPS races now. Also, if being a hybrid race is supposed to be the Khajiit's forte, dunmer will now do it much better.

You missing the whole picture unfortunately. Since SotH (2016) all bonuses are additive not multiplicative.

75 Stamina recovery is more than 10% over base stamina recovery.

Here are the maths.

Currently Khajiit base stamina recovery is 514 + 10% racial passive. The 10% is 51 stamina.
With the changes it gets 75 stamina, which is equivalent to +14% racial passive.

All other bonuses like Medium Armour, Mooncalf, skills like Repentance etc are calculated over the 514 base stamina. So nothing changes here.
Stop crying I only play Khajiit toons and we got a huge buff to our racials overall, especially those who insist playing magicka based Khajiit.

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@Azyle1 , yup. Of course, good part is that stamina khajiit isn't nerfed (except for high regen PvP builds) and magicka khajiit is suddenly a thing (which I quite welcome). So-so part is that meta didn't change and we'll keep seeing "redguard or gtfo" floating around, and a crowd of min-maxed stamina redguards. But at least we weren't nerfed into the ground on the occasion of Elsweyr release.

@p_tsakirisb16_ESO , not quite - the percentage bonuses are taken from base and flat bonuses, so if you run Dubious you have 833 buffable regen, if you run Stormfist - even more; more yet if you run regen glyphs. But the equilibrium point - past which 10% is better than flat 75 - is at about 1.2-1.3k base unbuffed regen, which covers most PvE builds imaginable.

Azyle1 · January 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Azyle1 , yup. Of course, good part is that stamina khajiit isn't nerfed (except for high regen PvP builds) and magicka khajiit is suddenly a thing (which I quite welcome). So-so part is that meta didn't change and we'll keep seeing "redguard or gtfo" floating around, and a crowd of min-maxed stamina redguards. But at least we weren't nerfed into the ground on the occasion of Elsweyr release.

@p_tsakirisb16_ESO , not quite - the percentage bonuses are taken from base and flat bonuses, so if you run Dubious you have 833 buffable regen, if you run Stormfist - even more; more yet if you run regen glyphs. But the equilibrium point - past which 10% is better than flat 75 - is at about 1.2-1.3k base unbuffed regen, which covers most PvE builds imaginable.

@John_Falstaff I play a stamblade in PVE on Xbox as a Khajiit. I really preform almost as well as I do when I test out Redguard here and there. DPS wise, maybe this slight buff eill be enough to allow me to run Veledrith over Storm first.