It's Official. No Champion Point increase next Update. Thank you Rich for listening!

mairwen85 · January 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Not incresing cp cap would be fine only if they would stop nerfing literally everything every major update (and I guess this time will be no different).
Do we actally know what they are going to do with CP system ?

Can't really say anything for nerfs other than that CP is a contributor (not the only one, but one of several) in why certain skills become OP -- hopefully a prolonged cap will allow for retrospectives on other culprits.

We only know the cap increases will be frozen for a period of time with no ETA on when they will be raised again.

Ideally, earning CP beyond cap should also be disabled in this case -- especially as being beyond cap per increase is a major player in the rate that power creep excels, and the primary reason why content cannot catch up with players.

As for what happens next? Conjecture and speculation. Hence these circular discussion threads

mairwen85 · January 2019

...

double post

theyancey · January 2019

Lack of character progression and forced main story group content are such negatives that they have completely overridden the man positives that I saw announced. I had just recently purchased a new 6 month sub but have now taken it off auto renew. I'll reevaluate in 4 months but if all of this comes to fruition then I'll just play some other games until the next TES drop. I have no desire to play a group action-adventure game whether set in the Elder Scrolls universe or not.

xxthir13enxx · January 2019

They need to add a 4th tree to eat up more points...
I’d be fine with this tree being more QoL based...Crafting Inventory Blahblah
But a lot of High CPrs aren’t even using All the points available to them (in PvP anyways) adds more challenge limiting one self

Hixtory · January 2019

I have more than 1k cp points, I want to use them ALL, I dont even care if it's just cosmetics or QoL stuff, the suggestion to not aggro low level monsters, the faster chest opening, more inventory bank, more gold for selling stuff to vendors, there are so many stuff they can do, and with diminishing returns that could work great, like 100CP 10%, but from 70 is like 8% and the next 30 would give you that 10%, I could use them all and is not game breaking at all.

DPShiro · January 2019

theyancey wrote: »

Lack of character progression and forced main story group content are such negatives that they have completely overridden the man positives that I saw announced. I had just recently purchased a new 6 month sub but have now taken it off auto renew. I'll reevaluate in 4 months but if all of this comes to fruition then I'll just play some other games until the next TES drop. I have no desire to play a group action-adventure game whether set in the Elder Scrolls universe or not.

You are aware this is an MMO an not a single player?

Durham · January 2019

The vast majority of players like CP and like it in PVP... ZOS knows this ... CP is not going anywhere.. I know people that will drop this game like a hot potatoe if CP is remove... None CP is not popular on any platform except PC North America... Even there its nothing compared Vevic ....

Im personally nuetral ... I think PVP would be better with out CP however many things need to be balanced like the bleeds and dot sets if that is done... I also think PVP and PVE need to be balanced seperately to do it correctly that includes sets....

sevomd69 · January 2019

Hopefully they'll finally work on getting rid of jump points...

Bowser · January 2019

I hope this is the first step towards removing the CP system.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · January 2019

@Yolokin_Swagonborn did they mention anything about giving back the resources taken away when cp was introduced?

No lie, when I play no-cp it feels like I'm back to vr7, not a great feeling.

mairwen85 · January 2019

Bowser wrote: »

I hope this is the first step towards removing the CP system.

What would come in it's place? Honestly interested in your view on this. I simply think CP has gotten out of hand, and is in need of review as per my previous posts -- but I'm also genuinely interested in the ESO vision of anti-CP players because I can't think of an alternative to the current system without a complete overhaul of the game, or a way of removing it without breaking so much that an overhaul would be the better option regardless. Please share your thoughts.

mairwen85 wrote: »

... how would that work? Can you assign a rewards system or beneficial returns, or would this be a pure personal achievement thing? How would gear scale in such a system? Should it? What mechanism would otherwise provide extension to core build and classes? How does a software system matricize player progression? Does it need to?

See, the way I think is: we can all have an opinion; we can all state our case; we can all say yes or no -- but what actually works to promote change and solidify is solutions and alternatives. Removing CP outright will be retroactively weakening players and take away the benefits and rewards they have gained through completing content and playing the game. How would you compensate that, or what would you suggest ZOS offer up to replace it?

zaria · January 2019

Durham wrote: »

The vast majority of players like CP and like it in PVP... ZOS knows this ... CP is not going anywhere.. I know people that will drop this game like a hot potatoe if CP is remove... None CP is not popular on any platform except PC North America... Even there its nothing compared Vevic ....

Im personally nuetral ... I think PVP would be better with out CP however many things need to be balanced like the bleeds and dot sets if that is done... I also think PVP and PVE need to be balanced seperately to do it correctly that includes sets....

I prefer no cp pvp simply because overall skill level there is more equal to my own pvp skill

Having PvP without CP might be an benefit to. Have an feeling most complaining about CP is PvP players.
One issue with CP in PvP is that defense is critical in PvP and CP gives both more damage and more protection.

In PvE, CP is not an issue, we keep getting harder content and the buffs we get at this level is small as the most important stuff is filled out.

HighKinlady · January 2019

GG to everyone who worked getting CP just so ZOS could halt that to cater to those who haven’t put in the time and work that you have.

Zypheran · January 2019

I really think its a gross exaggeration to blame power creep on CP. Sure CP adds power but lets face it, after 400-500 CP youre really only getting a few token extra percent. You watch the difference between players that can dish out 50k dps vs those struggling to hit 30K.. it aint the extra 1% crit damage or elemental damage from CP that's doing it!
If they really want to lower the ceiling, then get rid of the precious animation cancelling and LA weaving. Anytime I'm trying to help a person with their dps it always comes down to rotation and in the end, the people that struggle are always the people that cant manage animation cancelling and light weaving in their rotation.

karekiz · January 2019

Well seeing as they worked this into raids

Inc base normal mode = regular <What we have now> gear.
Inc Vet overland/dungeon mode = Perfected <New!> gear.

Tune in next year to regrind your gear, and get perfected spell strat.

rexagamemnon · January 2019

There should be no co cap, i disagree with this post

Nolic1 · January 2019

Zypheran wrote: »

I really think its a gross exaggeration to blame power creep on CP. Sure CP adds power but lets face it, after 400-500 CP youre really only getting a few token extra percent. You watch the difference between players that can dish out 50k dps vs those struggling to hit 30K.. it aint the extra 1% crit damage or elemental damage from CP that's doing it!
If they really want to lower the ceiling, then get rid of the precious animation cancelling and LA weaving. Anytime I'm trying to help a person with their dps it always comes down to rotation and in the end, the people that struggle are always the people that cant manage animation cancelling and light weaving in their rotation.

Your pretty close on that but mostly it comes down to rotation with resource management most can not do until the learn it animation canceling really does help but its hard enough for many to learn the above but throwing in animation canceling makes it that much harder to maintain.

Waseem · January 2019

no cp= playable pvp

Danksta · January 2019

Facefister wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.

My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!

What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?

You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.

You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.

You can blame PvP for that, every "homogenizing" move by any dev is an attempt to balance PvP.

Because of the imbalance that the cp system created...

Kagukan · January 2019

There needs to be some kind of progression even for long term players or people will leave to get that progression feel from a different game. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get some kind of long term progression system in place.

Savos_Saren · January 2019

Danksta wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.

My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!

What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?

You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.

You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.

You can blame PvP for that, every "homogenizing" move by any dev is an attempt to balance PvP.

Because of the imbalance that the cp system created...

CP didn't always exist. And the game was imbalanced before it.

People are still going to want some form of vertical progression to separate a character that's 4+ years old vs a freshly created character. You want your main to feel legendary.

Ashtaris · January 2019

The thing that bothered me is that Rich made no indication there was an alternative progression system in the works, or what it might look like. That usually indicates they don’t have a clue on how to make some kind of progression system work in this game. They tried Veteran ranks, that didn’t work. They came out with the CP system, that didn’t work. So what’s next?

Mysticman · January 2019

Another game nerf to please PVP players. Come on ZOS so many of these problems could be easily solved by just separating PVP and PVE. Making gaining experience useless, irrelevant, worthless, unimportant is not good for this game or any game.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2019

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn did they mention anything about giving back the resources taken away when cp was introduced?

No lie, when I play no-cp it feels like I'm back to vr7, not a great feeling.

They didn't but this is a very important point. I think a lot of the people that don't prefer no-CP campaigns might reconsider if they got their resources back. I lot of people dont realize those resources weren't added. They were stolen from our characters and then sold back to us via champion points.

MLGProPlayer · January 2019

Danksta wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

OH man here come all the "BUT MUH POINTS" cries.

My beautiful fake, meaningless, vertical progression treadmill points!!!!!1!!!!

What will I ever do if I can't log in when the new update hits and increase my elemental damage by 0.002%
How will I feel useful to my raid guild?

You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.

You were getting buffs from one system and then getting your class skills nerfed from the other and some of you still want more fake imaginary points. Im sure ZOS can implement something to spend your points on that doesn't destabilize the game.

You can blame PvP for that, every "homogenizing" move by any dev is an attempt to balance PvP.

Because of the imbalance that the cp system created...

It's not even a PvP issue. CP point's have ruined PvE too. They've trivialised the majority of content which used to be fun and challenging

desciviib14_ESO · January 2019

I'd like to see the CP's flipped where most of them are interesting things and the passives for so many slotted in a tree would be dmg, mitigation, and reduced cost/regen

Thalmor-Nordmaster · January 2019

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

You are all on a treadmill. While you happily invested more and more points into damage and sustain. ZOS was busy nerfing Helping Hands passive from DK, Leeching strikes passive from nightblade, dark deal from sorc. Making class abilities more homogenized and less unique, all to pay for the power gained by the champion system.

I'm stealing this

Nothing personal Yolokin SwaggerNord I just cannot pass up an epiphany sigline

Nebthet78 · January 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

This is one of the worst decisions they could have made.

The problem with the CP system wasn't so much the power creep, BUT was the fact that ZOS didn't reinstitute soft caps on all our stats to compensate for that power creep and force us to make decisions on where to spend those points.

What's the point for any one at cap, to bother buying the new chapter or to continue playing? There isn't any. Nothing but wasted XP that could have gone to something.

CP's with their power creep, would actually help people like me, who are disabled and have to use certain non-Xbox controllers because they are smaller in order to play on PC, to increase and be able to do harder content and continue to improve, despite not being able to animation cancel reliably or hold a perfect rotation.

So now, no improvement, despite hours and hours of playing and events, and what not. So then, what's the point?? If I can't improve either through raised stats so I can do more end game content, then there is no reason for me to bother buying the new content, or to pay for a sub, or really even to log on daily.

@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno

This is a bad decision. Very bad decision. The only way you are going to FIX CP's is to bring back SOFT CAPS!!! Yep, there are going to be a lot of end game and pvp players that aren't going to like that. BUT it is the only way you are going to be able to lower that ceiling you kept talking about earlier without obliterating he middle ground (like you've been doing), while also raising the floor.

These changes are NOT hurting your end game elite players. These changes are not hurting your lowest floor players. They are hurting your mid-ranged players who find normal dungeons and trials too easy, but some Vet Trials and most Vet HM too hard to complete or even be considered to be allowed to participate in because they don't meet the magick number DPS.

If you don't want player pulling 50K DPS, then put a god damned SOFT CAP on it!!!!! There, problem solved.. It forces them to use their CP in another spot other than DPS.
STOP punishing everyone because a few people are complaining about the power creep!!!!

People want to complain that CP is making them too powerful in overland content... create an on/off toggle. Make CP a PVE thing only.... can't have it in Cyrodiil.

ZOS needs to stop looking at how END GAME elite players are doing in this game and making decisions around them. They need to pay more attention to what the middle ground players are doing, especially those who fall in the GAP of being left out of things when decisions like this are made.

We already have soft caps. Soft caps are diminishing returns. CP have (severe) diminishing returns. That hasn't solved anything.

No... dimishing returns don't work as well as soft caps on our actual stats.

Make is so that you can only get a MAX of 35k mag or stam, 4.5k max mag or stam dmg, 2k max recovery and hit overall damage with a max 45kDPS.

The only thing with a real soft cap in this game at the moment are resistances. Capped at 33.4k or something close to that.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.

If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.

Didn't they "steal your progression" when they nerfed the hell out of CP with Morrowind?

Didn't they "steal your progression" when they nixed the VR system and switched to CP?

Didn't they steal our progression when they nerfed Sunderflame and NMG into the ground? I bet I spent 100+ hours farming Sunderflame daggers, and across my 2 accounts I bet I've got 5+ full sets of gold NMG and 20+ gold NMG weapons all collecting dust now.

Y'all are just afraid of change.

Yes, they have gutted our progression several times already..... and guess what, a hell of a lot of end game players quit. Many Raiding guilds imploded because they are sick and tired of having their progression fracked with.

Why do you think they are now running so many damn events? They know it's the only way to boost their numbers to get players back because they screwed up hard!

The players they hurt with those changes were not the players that needed to be brought in line to lower the ceiling. They actually ended up hurting the players who are in the middle who are on the cusp of being able to achieve harder content and needed the progression improvement. But instead, ZOS killed their progression outright and created an even wider gap between the Middle Tiered players by flattening them into the group while the Top Tier Ceiling level players pulled ever fuller forward.

It shows that ZOS has no concept of the consequences of their actual changes, and they need to STOP listening to just the ELITE end game Math players and listen to those in the middle most affected by these changes!!

munster1404 · January 2019

Zypheran wrote: »

I really think its a gross exaggeration to blame power creep on CP. Sure CP adds power but lets face it, after 400-500 CP youre really only getting a few token extra percent. You watch the difference between players that can dish out 50k dps vs those struggling to hit 30K.. it aint the extra 1% crit damage or elemental damage from CP that's doing it!
If they really want to lower the ceiling, then get rid of the precious animation cancelling and LA weaving. Anytime I'm trying to help a person with their dps it always comes down to rotation and in the end, the people that struggle are always the people that cant manage animation cancelling and light weaving in their rotation.

Not just CP, Blame Cloudrest gear and Jewel crafting

Dreyloch · January 2019

Ok, go ahead and remove CP's. However, (ESPECIALLY in PvP) there has to be sweeping changes to gear, resource pools and sustain. Otherwise an enormous amount of builds suddenly become useless? Nah, I'm sorry. This is a very bad move imo.

I don't wanna hear about "well git good etc." That's not an acceptable retort when you've played CP campaigns since they came out. They will have to convert or do something different with all the points we've earned so far.

Just as an example. I have an Ice warden wearing Iceheart, Winterborn, and Torugs. He's fine in CP. But even then, the build isn't particularly ideal for resource pool and regen. Put him in no-cp? It pretty much can't be played. Not enough sustain, not enough resources, not enough resists. The build was based on certain proc's and CP's holding it up. Now I have other toons of course. I can change out a set or something to try and compete in no-cp. But again, some builds that people busted their tails for, become suddenly obsolete. NOT good, not by a long shot.

Another example. Just last night I was doing vMA. As a PvP'er I'm not happy about having to do this, but I'd like to get some of those weapons. Can you imagine vMA in it's current state withOUT using CP's? How about hard mode vet trails? Slowing down CP's is one thing, but when ya all talk about removing them from the game, your not seeing the big picture.