no CP increase = no late game
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »The most boring games are where everything scales to you, where every fight is life or death. I’m talking about PvE. You want every time you aggro a wolf or a mudcrab that it’s a life or death fight. Or Minotaurs. You need that sense of progression or what is all the time and work you put in for. Some games are great only for the story but ESO ain’t. The stories ain’t that good.
CP is less important in PvP where builds and skill are ultimately the determining outcome of most fights. Yet, CP is earned and should be utilized.
Power creep is not a problem because ZOS just makes the dlc content harder. We already expect a normal dlc dungeon to be harder than a vet non dlc dungeon.
What ZOS should do us expand the cp trees and give us more places to stick cp. all of these new spots don’t necessarily have to suddenly make you op in combat. Just capping it is the lazy way out.
Over time your character should grow.
But leveling up =/= growing
Leveling up doesn't make you stronger as new content is designed to be completed at your current level.
All leveling up/power creep does is make old content easier. New content will always be the same difficulty. An increasing level cap is therefore 100% pointless. It's just a psychological trick to make you feel like you are progressing (when you actually aren't).
You just need to change your mindset.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 4:36AM6 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why do people think they want vertical progression? It's an obsolete paradigm revolving around artificial barriers and un-immersive MMO game design. Also power creep is a huge detriment in a multiplayer game.9 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do people think they want vertical progression? It's an obsolete paradigm revolving around artificial barriers and un-immersive MMO game design. Also power creep is a huge detriment in a multiplayer game.
Because they want to feeeeeeeel Powerful. And they get bored with what they have so they want more power. And to have more cookies than other people because they worked harder (read:grinded) for them.
When Champion points were first introduced and unlimited, there were people that grinding to 1000 in less than a month. They had a HUGE advantage over other players in PvP, and they loved it. It made them feel like gods stomping insects and they thought they were so good at the game. Some people just have to measure e-points. I don't know why.6 -
j.greenmanb16_ESO wrote: »The game has far more to offer than progression in levels. Just sayin.
What exactly would that be? The majority play a fantasy MMORPG to be the hero, to grow and become powerful. If I wanted to read a book I will buy a book.
It is beyond silly to pay 15 dollars a month and buy crown items for a glorified novel which is what any MMORPG becomes when you remove progression, vertical progression is the most significant.
Just take a look at your achievement list, I'm sure you will find something to do besides go up another champion point."You are brave and you are strong, of this there is no doubt. But without me at your side, your deeds will go unknown, your death unwept and your story unsung - Sings-In-Shade, the Argonian Bard2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do people think they want vertical progression? It's an obsolete paradigm revolving around artificial barriers and un-immersive MMO game design. Also power creep is a huge detriment in a multiplayer game.
It's an outdated concept from a bygone era. Levels were needed in the past to gate content because the concept of the open world/sandbox video game had not been invented yet. Levels are 100% obsolete today and serve zero function other than being a visual indicator of time played.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 4:46AM6 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We need a new system called "Awesome points." Make it super grindy and everyone can see your awesome points and know how awesome you are. But it doesn't affect combat in the slightest. But every time you log into the game, a golden Khajiit in a bikini says "Welcome Awesome one, you have ### awesome points! you are super awesome!"
Do you think that would sate the progression fetishists?5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »We need a new system called "Awesome points." Make it super grindy and everyone can see your awesome points and know how awesome you are. But it doesn't affect combat in the slightest. But every time you log into the game, a golden Khajiit in a bikini says "Welcome Awesome one, you have ### awesome points! you are super awesome!"
Do you think that would sate the progression fetishists?
Just give them titles or something for hitting higher and higher CP levels.
Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 4:50AM2 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭I think the "perfect" progression system in an MMO would be a balance between vertical and horizontal progression.
I like getting stronger. I like getting more CP points, I want to progress. I don't want to eternally complete new content, only to reap the rewards and do the same dps +/- 2000. Seriously, am I the only one who finds that extremely boring? Our characters haven't actually gotten "stronger" for almost a year now, due to all the nerfs that have come with CP increases. It's starting to burn me out.
At the same time, having level-scaled zones keeps content in those zones relevant. It keeps them alive, because their gear is still viable for endgame players. If it's just a matter of keeping overland challenging, they could easily make it so that all CP 500-800 players fight CP 500 mobs, and CP 800+ players fight CP 800 mobs, but the drops would still be 160. Hell, even increase drop chances for set pieces at higher CP levels. I'm not saying that's not a viable option for the future.
But, I think getting rid of any sort of progression will *** off a lot of long term players, and yes that does include me. Part of why I play RPGs in general is the power fantasy, and if my power stagnates, there's only so many other reasons to keep playing the game.
I don't want to be playing this game in 2+ years and still do 30-40k dps. I've pretty much plateaued in terms of skill, so the only way to get bigger numbers is with higher CP or an increase in gear in some other way. Call me old fashioned, but I like seeing numbers go up. It's the environment I grew up in, and maybe that landscape is changing but I'd imagine most players of THIS game are like me and will eventually leave if our numbers stop going up for an extended period.4 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So let me get this straight, your motivation to play ESO is the 30 cp you get to spend the 1st day of a new patch?
The system is harmful to the game and they're putting a stop to it before it does further damage. Deal with it, or move on. Nobody cares what you do at the of the day."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4333 -
Yuffie91✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Well.... I play MMOs (as well as SPMR games) for that "glorified novel". And I have the money to do so. My experience in this situation is far more important to me (as a long time RP gamer - since the pen and paper games in the mid-70s) than your need to progress to ever higher levels.
However, I do have to say that I really prefer the WoW and RIFT version of progression, which is higher levels rather than some totally abstruse thing like CP. I can always get my mind around levels. So far, CP is leaving me saying "LOLWUT???"
Many people from wow prefer the progression here as the expansions raised level cap gives nothing. No new talents etc.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Soundles1990 wrote: »So why should i continue playing this game ? I already have achieved everything. There is nothing to do now to progress.
How can you have achieved everything when you haven't completed any of the new content that will be released?
Or are you telling us that CP is the only thing in game you consider an "achievement"?
So dramatic.1 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Zerowaffles wrote: »PvP is the true end game
That’s a matter of opinion, not fact. PVP is not the true end game to everybody.5 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can you imagine a new player who gets to level 50... then finds out they need to get to CP160 for gear... then finds out there are 810 CP levels? While the catch-up mechanic helps, it's a daunting number floating farther and farther away each patch.
Meanwhile they can't nerf basic skill power across the board to accommodate CP power creep without harming new players, nor do they want to lock low CP players out of all the new content because they need to make it harder to please max CP players.
CP needs to be about flavor and uniqueness and character customization, not just moar damage/heals/mitigation. I am very glad they are pausing the train to work out where it needs to be.3 -
Lifemocker✭✭✭We don’t need increase in cp cap, pve damage is already huge, pvp is full of too strong builds (imo) and most players are way over the cp cap already. I am about at 1240 cp and I could take a two year break and still be well ahead of the cap.
I hope this decision is because they are thinking of balancing the cp or reworking them some way.3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »soniku4ikblis wrote: »Power-creep is a real thing. It has a historical record in many MMO's.
Power creep is a real thing, it is also a life thing.
Power creep needs to occur in a healthy game, the issue really is how much, not that it exists. The trick is to keep vert prog and minimize power creep WHILE at the same time allowing older content to become trivial to the player that has progressed.
Basically you mimick life without the hassles or lifetime effort required to master a skill. That is what makes a game fun for most and continually engaging.
Hmmm. I'll have to think about that for a while. And since I'm likely to get dc'd again due to snow.... well, talk to you later maybe?
Yes
Please note I keep referring to vert prog and not CP specifically. I am not vested in CP. I do not care how vert prog works. I am just defending the need for some system that does work.
Exactly, and this is more or less what Rich meant by saying that they try to figure out how to adjust CPs or in general progression. Nope, this game won't became fantasy CS where you start the game and you are ready to go.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zerowaffles wrote: »Zerowaffles wrote: »Soundles1990 wrote: »Well then dont increase the CP Cap but i need something else to get my character stronger!
Numbers don't make you stronger skill does
CP should be all around removed or reworked
Of course you miss the obvious, the most skilled players will have the most CP, there is a relationship. Also CP does in fact make you stronger otherwise no one would be making such a fuss about it, there would be no power creep if what you said was true.
The number of high skilled players with no CP is very small indeed so what exactly is your point?
You could have the best CP setup in the world and the best build in the world but if you don't know how to use any of it none of it matters and a cp300 player that knows what they are doing can easily destroy you.
I've seen it many times happen from people who make second accounts just to go around making CP capped PvPers salty
You are talking about exceptions, and since these are exceptions general rule is more CPs = more skill. Yes there are skilled low CP players, but there is way more skilled high CP players - that's a fact.
And if we would take preferred gameplay (Cyro, Duels, PvE, trials) as a field of skill reference, I guess this would became even more obvious. Not every high CP player is interested in PvP and saying he is unskilled because he lost duel is just wrong, because he can be extremely skilled PvE player.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
WatchYourSixx✭✭✭✭Personally I'd like to see vertical progression in gear.. but we don't have the type of system in place for that. Especially considering we don't have that many trials either and a lot of the gear that is BiS doesn't come from just trials.
I'd love if eso did away with cp or changed it to have a significantly less power creep, but also create separation in content with a tier type system like WoW has always done. You can be level whatever capped, but still have to work to get your progressively better gear by completing certain raids or quests or whatever. Right not the only real progression we have in gear is the perfected stuff which is a step in the right direction but definitely not that great.
I'd be absolutely ecstatic if eso implemented a tiered gear progression. You don't even have to raise the level cap, just add a new tier of gear.
Biggest problem with this though is the fact that sets are so freaking readily available. You hardly have to try at all to get a full set of whatever in the pieces you want. Weapons are harder to get but it's still not that difficult. Not to mention you can just transmute the trait relatively easy.The only thing to fear is, fear itself. - FDR
CP 800
PC NA
- Maximus the Marksman (AD) Temp
- Rex the Unstoppable Force (DC) DK
- Sodor Dragonfire (DC) DK
- Masha'Dar Shadow-Paw (DC) NB
- Magnus the Mage (DC) Sorc0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zerowaffles wrote: »Zerowaffles wrote: »Soundles1990 wrote: »Well then dont increase the CP Cap but i need something else to get my character stronger!
Numbers don't make you stronger skill does
CP should be all around removed or reworked
Of course you miss the obvious, the most skilled players will have the most CP, there is a relationship. Also CP does in fact make you stronger otherwise no one would be making such a fuss about it, there would be no power creep if what you said was true.
The number of high skilled players with no CP is very small indeed so what exactly is your point?
You could have the best CP setup in the world and the best build in the world but if you don't know how to use any of it none of it matters and a cp300 player that knows what they are doing can easily destroy you.
I've seen it many times happen from people who make second accounts just to go around making CP capped PvPers salty
You are talking about exceptions, and since these are exceptions general rule is more CPs = more skill. Yes there are skilled low CP players, but there is way more skilled high CP players - that's a fact.
And if we would take preferred gameplay (Cyro, Duels, PvE, trials) as a field of skill reference, I guess this would became even more obvious. Not every high CP player is interested in PvP and saying he is unskilled because he lost duel is just wrong, because he can be extremely skilled PvE player.
CP has no correlation to skill. It's simply an indicator of time played.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 7:16AM3 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭j.greenmanb16_ESO wrote: »The game has far more to offer than progression in levels. Just sayin.
What exactly would that be? The majority play a fantasy MMORPG to be the hero, to grow and become powerful. If I wanted to read a book I will buy a book.
It is beyond silly to pay 15 dollars a month and buy crown items for a glorified novel which is what any MMORPG becomes when you remove progression, vertical progression is the most significant.
No it's not honestly. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining and likely have combat inefficiency issues. As if 30cp levels did something of a significance.
This game has more to offer, it is its main focus. And if you've "done everything" and don't like it then go ahead and play something else.Edited by Nyladreas on January 16, 2019 7:22AM3 -
Yuffie91✭✭✭✭✭If I had to choose I would take better gear tiers over cp gain. And more class and weapon skills1
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Malfious1986✭✭✭I know this sounds silly. I'm not against dropping CP increases per dlc but I am against capping it on a silly number. 810 is no good for my ocd, 820 or 850 I could live with.Part of the PS4 EU Guild ESO - Expendable Heroes. Check out our Facebook Page! PSN Lord_Malfious1 -
DPShiro✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zerowaffles wrote: »PvP is the true end game so I ask you this:
Are you a grand overlord and a former emperor?
if you still haven't achieved those then you should stop complaining tbh
LOL, pvp requires zero skill to get AP, just time spent.
There is no end game in pvp~ Gryphon Heart ~
~ Immortal Redeemer ~
~ Grand Master Crafter ~
~ Master Angler ~
~ Former Emperor ~3 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have over 1100 CP. The more I get, it becomes less and less useful. The cap at the moment is pretty high, and a lot of people I see are lower CP, like 200-500. Stopping from raising the cap for awhile will allow those players to catch up, and newer players won’t be so scared off from progressing in the game because the cap’s always increasing.
And tbh, after 700ish CP, they just become less and less useful."Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power1 -
munster1404✭✭✭✭starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »
Isn’t 30 more CP means usable CPs that you can place in skills? I’m at 1030 CP and only 810 points are usable at the moment. I’m still looking forward to unlocking more damage/mitigation.
2
