ZOS vs vampires ?

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

Actually, stage 1 looks good. So.. when I decide to run some hard content, i go outside any town and rise to lvl4 in 5 minutes and wear a skin after that. Returned from hard content? Go feed on some innocents and use bloody mara to restore look. This is RP and this is very small payment for vampire benefits. dark stalker and undeath each like 5th item sets bonus, bonus recovery worth 120 cp spent..

Rain_Greyraven · January 2019

I honestly think that Vampires are actually exceeding PVPers in the sheer amount of Tantrums lately.

All the more reason to make them full loot full PVP.

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

SilverPaws wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Vampires hiding they're appearance isn't against lore.. Ignore the Bruccius troll he is just one of the ppl who likes to just trigger others. Keep up and someday zos will finally provide us with some normal skin instead of this.

I'm what you call a wikian of over three years of experience, a ''troll'', lmao, sure.

Of course, you cannot provide evidence of it being normal for vampires to hide their appearance, because it isn't normal.

Link me any source telling that vampires can't hide their appearance, you are only one here without any evidence

You're the one claiming it is normal, so you're the one who needs the evidence, smarthat.

There's a reason why the majority of vampires on Tamriel look hideous; because it's normal for them to do so.

Can you tell me why vestige, one of the most powerful beings on Nirn could not hide his/her vampirism ? We already saw in game that it's possible also as someone said here, in Cyrodil is breed of vampires that look like normal people when they are fed.

It was never like that, all those persons have amber eyes and pale skin. As an example Serana and her father, looks at stage1 is very similar, what's the problem?

Arunei · January 2019

@Skwor
In a game where people spend a lot of time to make their characters look nice, it's not really unrealistic to expect people to want to not have their characters turned ugly or be told 'lol use a skin' when the Skins cover up a good portion of your character's appearance. People can't really use tattoos or other certain body markings because they get so horribly washed out and faded by being a Vamp, even at stage one, and Skins cover those too, so are people just supposed to accept being locked out of using a portion of the game's aesthetics because someone else thinks they should 'suffer' from the overall Vamp appearance?

There are already technical drawbacks to being a Vamp. Reduced health regen, increased weakness to FG skills, and increased damage from fire are pretty big cons to being a vamp if you want to run later stages for the benefits (and even at stage 1 they can hurt in various dungeons and such that have a lot of fire damage). Yet people claim the only downside is the appearance? Yes, certain things can be mitigated by using enchants or potions or whatever, but then that too can be counted as a drawback because you're having to lose potential DPS or group utility to cover your own butt.

In a game where we have an outfit system that can disguise you gear as any other gear, or where you can hide your armor with Costumes/Disguises, what is the real justification for not being able to hide Vampirism? The fact that Skins and Disguises already do it is proof it can be done and that it doesn't break the anti-disguise camp's ability to play or enjoy the game at all. Do you ever see 'omg a vamp that was disguised by a skin killed me!' threads posted? Ever? I've never seen one. It wouldn't ruin anyone's fun aside from people who just want to be able to spot a Vamp right away to get easy Dawnbreaker kills in PvP or something, and the people who'd like a toggle or some sort of 'normal' Skin would be happy (and potentially support the game further if it were made a Crown item). A Skin that, mind you, would show any tattoos or something, and not cover them up, though I'm not sure how possible that is since I'm not sure how ESO handles layering in terms of what determines what appearance things show.

I'm serious, and this is to everyone out there speaking against getting the ability to actually hide the Vampirim appearance without having to radically change a char's appearance overall with skins or relying on Disguises that can't be dyed and probably don't fit aesthetically. Why would this being available be a bad thing? What negative impacts would it have aside from not being able to see who you can OHKO with a Dawnbreaker? What legitimate issues would arise from people being able to hide the Vampiric appearance, which can already be done (albeit in a very cumbersome manner) with Skins and Disguises?

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

Ok, remove ugliness and make vampire passives work only when vampire ulti slotted, huh? vampire population will decrease immediately

Arunei · January 2019

@MartiniDaniels
What evidence do you have to support that sort of claim? A lot of people running Vamp builds already slot the Ultimate, and a lot of other people (like myself) have characters that are Vamps for RP purposes, not for the passives the line offers. Making people slot the ult won't really make much of a difference, aside from people who have it strictly for certain passives like the stat regen ones.

And again, instead of just blindly fighting against Vamps being able to hide their appearance, give any sort of example as to how being given this ability without having to rely on outrageous Skins or clunky, ugly Disguises would be detrimental to the game. I'm not being sarcastic or anything here, I'm honestly asking for people to provide any sort of legitimate argument to Vamps not being able to hide the paleness other than 'it's a drawback', because we already have numerous functional, actual drawbacks for choosing to have a character be a Vamp.

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

Arunei, every second cp810 person I meet is a vampire, I doubt that such amount of players do it for RP purposes. They do it for regen, undeath and dark stalker, all 3 are very powerful bonuses. In PVP this is somewhat downsided by undead status , 25% fire extra damage on you and inefficiency of troll king. In PVE it doesn't have any downsides in meta builds as you know all top tanks are vampires, so those 25% of fire actually nothing in comparison to extra resistance from undeath and extra recovery is always nice.

BTW, i have a vampire myself, and i'm ok that at stages 3-4 I need to wear skin.

And this is not about balance, this is lore, all regular vampires have always such looks that commoners in previous games suspect your char to be something unnatural. Give thanks to devs that they don't put heavy daylight debuff on vamps, forcing you to play vamp chars only during the night in overland and open-air dungeons and trials.

Bruccius · January 2019

SilverPaws wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Vampires hiding they're appearance isn't against lore.. Ignore the Bruccius troll he is just one of the ppl who likes to just trigger others. Keep up and someday zos will finally provide us with some normal skin instead of this.

I'm what you call a wikian of over three years of experience, a ''troll'', lmao, sure.

Of course, you cannot provide evidence of it being normal for vampires to hide their appearance, because it isn't normal.

Link me any source telling that vampires can't hide their appearance, you are only one here without any evidence

You're the one claiming it is normal, so you're the one who needs the evidence, smarthat.

There's a reason why the majority of vampires on Tamriel look hideous; because it's normal for them to do so.

Can you tell me why vestige, one of the most powerful beings on Nirn could not hide his/her vampirism ? We already saw in game that it's possible also as someone said here, in Cyrodil is breed of vampires that look like normal people when they are fed.

And clearly, we are not part of the Cyrodiilic breed of vampires, which is a very specific tribe, considering they were only able to hide their appearance if they were well fed. Something our vampirism does not do, even when well-fed.

You're yet to prove that vampires are normally able to hide their vampirism; the fact that it is pointed out as impressive for this one clan of Cyrodiil; the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order, that they are able to conceal their vampirism, shows it's abnormal.

@Reistr_the_Unbroken
Refer to my point above.

Skwor · January 2019

hmmm I wonder how many sparkly vampires here would be happy with this compromise.
Vampire line with a small buff option:
3 second cast - gives normal appearance but removes all vampire passives and makes all vampire skills inactive until removed, removal also requires a 3 second cast then it restores look to vampire, restores passives and skill line.

Buff must be maintained with bloody mary during daylight hours or it is removed by sunlight.

I suspect not many becuase it really is not about just appearance.

Arunei · January 2019

@MartiniDaniels
It is most definitely not about lore, or else people would have been saying that as a reason instead of just blindly speaking against it. Even taking lore into account, we also have a line of magic called 'Illusion', and the fact that pretty much anyone with even a bit of magical prowess can use Magicka if they practice. So it's logical that a Vampire would be able to use a spell to hide their appearance, or perhaps an enchanted item of some kind. Besides, we also have examples of Vamps in-game who aren't the Cyrod strain that can hide their appearance, like Veranis. While most strains may not be able to hide their appearance as an inherent skill, there are plenty of ways outside that they could do it.

And again, yes, the technical drawbacks are still drawbacks, regardless of how much you try to say they aren't. Again, some of them can be mitigated, but then that takes away from other things you could streamline a build for if you're using pots or enchants to counter the later-stage detriments. I have a Tank who's a Vamp and let me tell you, even with a skilled guildy running as a healer, he had a HARD TIME in vBF. Partially b/c I forgot to take him down to stage one before we went in and had no Bloody Maras on him since he runs Longfin Pasty (or Pastry icr which it is), and also b/c I have no enchants on his stuff to counter the fire damage. It was my first and only time running BF and I had no idea there'd be fire all over the darn place. Those top tanks, though, I would imagine have some sort of enchants to help counter the fire damage, and if not, then they'd rely even more on the healers in their groups than non-Vamps.

@Bruccius
We also have a line of magic called 'Illusion' as I stated before, which is based about altering how others perceive the world and stuff. Pretty sure any Vamp worth their salt could cast a spell to hide their appearance, or if not, they could likely get ahold of some object with an enchantment on it to hide their appearance.

@Skwor
Why should we need any compromise? Again you're not offering any sort of direct examples why just being allowed to hide the appearance would be bad in any way, other than people not being able to clearly see who they can blast into Oblivion with a well-placed Dawnbreaker. Instead you're just dancing around trying to offer 'compromises' where none are needed. But to answer your question, on my RP char who's a Vamp? I wouldn't care at all about giving up her passives and stuff if it meant she could look normal, because I care more about her looks. For my Tank who's a Vamp? I wouldn't care because I don't really care much about his appearance, though when I do use him for RP I put him at stage 2 on purpose for the extra pastiness.

People are also still ignoring the fact that Vamps can't really use tattoos or a lot of other body markings because of the fact that they seem to sit under the layer that applies the Vamp appearance, causing them to get washed out and faded. This *could* be fixed by ZOS putting them on top of that layer instead, but that seems extremely unlikely to happen, as I feel it'd probably involved having to go into the base code for in-game models and idk if any of the people who originally worked on that stuff are even still around.

Skwor · January 2019

Arunei wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels
It is most definitely not about lore, or else people would have been saying that as a reason instead of just blindly speaking against it. Even taking lore into account, we also have a line of magic called 'Illusion', and the fact that pretty much anyone with even a bit of magical prowess can use Magicka if they practice. So it's logical that a Vampire would be able to use a spell to hide their appearance, or perhaps an enchanted item of some kind. Besides, we also have examples of Vamps in-game who aren't the Cyrod strain that can hide their appearance, like Veranis. While most strains may not be able to hide their appearance as an inherent skill, there are plenty of ways outside that they could do it.

And again, yes, the technical drawbacks are still drawbacks, regardless of how much you try to say they aren't. Again, some of them can be mitigated, but then that takes away from other things you could streamline a build for if you're using pots or enchants to counter the later-stage detriments. I have a Tank who's a Vamp and let me tell you, even with a skilled guildy running as a healer, he had a HARD TIME in vBF. Partially b/c I forgot to take him down to stage one before we went in and had no Bloody Maras on him since he runs Longfin Pasty (or Pastry icr which it is), and also b/c I have no enchants on his stuff to counter the fire damage. It was my first and only time running BF and I had no idea there'd be fire all over the darn place. Those top tanks, though, I would imagine have some sort of enchants to help counter the fire damage, and if not, then they'd rely even more on the healers in their groups than non-Vamps.

@Bruccius
We also have a line of magic called 'Illusion' as I stated before, which is based about altering how others perceive the world and stuff. Pretty sure any Vamp worth their salt could cast a spell to hide their appearance, or if not, they could likely get ahold of some object with an enchantment on it to hide their appearance.

@Skwor
Why should we need any compromise? Again you're not offering any sort of direct examples why just being allowed to hide the appearance would be bad in any way, other than people not being able to clearly see who they can blast into Oblivion with a well-placed Dawnbreaker. Instead you're just dancing around trying to offer 'compromises' where none are needed. But to answer your question, on my RP char who's a Vamp? I wouldn't care at all about giving up her passives and stuff if it meant she could look normal, because I care more about her looks. For my Tank who's a Vamp? I wouldn't care because I don't really care much about his appearance, though when I do use him for RP I put him at stage 2 on purpose for the extra pastiness.

People are also still ignoring the fact that Vamps can't really use tattoos or a lot of other body markings because of the fact that they seem to sit under the layer that applies the Vamp appearance, causing them to get washed out and faded. This *could* be fixed by ZOS putting them on top of that layer instead, but that seems extremely unlikely to happen, as I feel it'd probably involved having to go into the base code for in-game models and idk if any of the people who originally worked on that stuff are even still around.

So you position is “give me everything I want they way I want it.” I made it clear, the current penalties for being a vampire are not even close to offsetting the very srong benifits, so appearance needs to stay as minor the inconvienence it is, it needs to stay. Your only position is just give you what you want.

I noticed even being given an option for a clean appearance you dodge it. Stating there is no need for a compromise is basically telling the rest of us we are wrong you are right and give you what you want. As I suspected you wanted no part of it becuase you want everything positive vampire but no real consequences, even a minor appearance inconvienence.

Salvas_Aren · January 2019

The whole thing about cosmetic nerfs is ridiculous.

The Vestige should not be strong enough to hide his/her beast appearance? Don't award the title Master Vampire!

Vampires need to stay ugly? Appearance is a choice made? Take away ALL SKINS from the game!

Sylvermynx · January 2019

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

The whole thing about cosmetic nerfs is ridiculous.

The Vestige should not be strong enough to hide his/her beast appearance? Don't award the title Master Vampire!

Vampires need to stay ugly? Appearance is a choice made? Take away ALL SKINS from the game!

Well, getting rid of all the skins would be fine with me.... I wouldn't use any of them (well, maybe the "fishy" one - but not a given since it would depend on whether I had a girl just right for it....)

Arunei · January 2019

@Skwor
Lolno, sorry. I outright said I wouldn't care for my RP char to have her passives removed, and I wouldn't use a compromise on my Tank because I care more for his stats, not his appearance. You're the one dodging the issue by still not giving any solid examples of why this being possible would damage the game at all or be somehow detrimental, which I've asked for in several posts now but no one in the anti-disguise camp seems to be able to offer. All of you keep defaulting back to 'lol the current drawbacks aren't cons at all so you have to look bad' argument, which at this point just seems like an excuse since you can't come up with any valid reasons how or why this would damage gameplay. Like I already said, people can hide their Vampirism already, and do you see any threads where people complain about not being able to tell a player was a Vamp? No, because it's not this problem people are trying to make it seem. If we can already do it, why not give us a more convenient way to do it that makes everyone happy? Aside from the people who want be able to tell where to aim their Dawnbreakers, which is what seems to me to be the only real issue since no one seems willing (or able) to provide any real, legit counterargument.

Leocaran · January 2019

Arunei wrote: »

Aside from the people who want be able to tell where to aim their Dawnbreakers, which is what seems to me to be the only real issue since no one seems willing (or able) to provide any real, legit counterargument.

Which is also nonsense because either characters can wear helms and full-cover armor which totally conceal vampirism in PvP even without skins or attacking players can have addons (like me) that show vampire state as a permanent buff so they can see that a player is a vamp even under all armor and/or skins.

Bruccius · January 2019

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

The whole thing about cosmetic nerfs is ridiculous.

The Vestige should not be strong enough to hide his/her beast appearance? Don't award the title Master Vampire!

Vampires need to stay ugly? Appearance is a choice made? Take away ALL SKINS from the game!

Didn't know skins were a toggle....

The solution is simple: Either spend money to hide your skin or don't become a vampire. Grow up.

Bruccius · January 2019

@Arunei
Using your logic, we should be able to change the appearance of everything ingame!

''I want the Orc passives, but I hate the way Orcs look. Let me look like any race that I want! What does it bother you?''
Grow up.

zyk · January 2019

My guess is ZOS will eventually capitulate to the whalesy Fashion Scrolls Online players.

Bruccius · January 2019

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

The whole thing about cosmetic nerfs is ridiculous.

The Vestige should not be strong enough to hide his/her beast appearance? Don't award the title Master Vampire!

Vampires need to stay ugly? Appearance is a choice made? Take away ALL SKINS from the game!

Didn't know skins were a toggle....

The solution is simple: Either spend money to hide your skin or don't become a vampire. Grow up.

What a genious solution. Whenever one suggests a cool vampire skin for crowns, the lame counterarguments remain the same.

The simple truth is: Vampire haters don't know when to STFU.

Seems to me the vampire haters are the ones who try to hide their appearance....